17 ms·

I'm a huge fan of sloth. I frequently take many months off between jobs, sometimes a year or more. I refuse to work more than 40 hours a week except for genuine

I'm a huge fan of sloth. I frequently take many months off between jobs, sometimes a year or more. I refuse to work more than 40 hours a week except for genuine emergencies (things like outages; being behind schedule never counts), and I'm close to drawing the line at four days a week. I always take at least three weeks off a year, and that's in a bad year. I take "mental health days" often and with no guilt. If you don't own your time, people will take it from you. I'm perhaps speaking from a place of privilege, but it's not that hard to achieve. I've been doing this my whole life, from minimum wage jobs through decades of professional career. Sit on the couch. Take a vacation. Quit your job. Say no to overtime always and forever. Blow off weekends often. Nothing is as important as others will tell you it is. You're going to die some day and when you're on your death bed you won't regret the times you did nothing.

allenu 6y ago
I like your attitude. How, if I may ask, did you end up with your current philosophy? Was it through past experiences where people did take your time and you gave in? I love the idea of taking lots of time off, but on a personal level I have a lot of guilt surrounding that. I know it's not rational since ultimately it's my life, but it's still something I need to work on to get over. If you have tips on changing my mindset surrounding this, I'd love to hear it.
- gerdesj 6y ago
  caymanjim is unlikely to answer. The poor thing is knackered out from typing their post. I think that they might have been a little disingenuous. Their post was far too long and properly typed out to be from a real sloth. Fibber.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- mettamage 6y ago
  I identify with his post. I always had a rebellious streak when it comes to people judging me. In return, I don’t judge other people myself. It also saves a lot of energy :) That’s how I don’t feel guilty. I am not doing anything and you can do whatever you want in life too. I find it tough to achieve though. I am currently at 4 days per week but would like to be at 3.5 days, that’s my optimum (lower than 3 days and I will go insane of not exercising my mind).
  - perfunctory 6y ago
    > lower than 3 days and I will go insane of not exercising my mind It's not like paid work is the only place where you can exercise your mind
    - mettamage 6y ago
      I agree but I find it the most practical place. If I can’t exercise my mind, then there’s nothing for me at work other than obtaining an income (no SF salary here so no financial independence possible).
      - 6510 6y ago
        I do the same only I exercise the body at work.
        mettamage 6y ago
        Nice one! Fair enough, I thought about doing that too. I chose for the mind, but IMO the body is a good option as well, especially because if you choose the right profession (i.e. light to medium exercise), it probably means you'll live longer.
  - dunefox 6y ago
    If you need the workplace to 'exercise your mind' then I don't know what to tell you... all your free time gained this way is useless then if you don't know how to spend it.
    - mettamage 6y ago
      One needs to work to survive. The benefit of work for me is to exercise my mind. Other forms are available but do not aid survival. So assuming everything else is equal, I should use work to exercise my mind. The issue with work is that it is constrained to one thing (web dev in my case). I can use my free time to do whatever (relax or other exercises such as meditation).
- ta1234567890 6y ago
  Can't answer for caymanjim. Personally, I now work about 2-5 hours per week, mostly just meeting some people (don't have to do anything besides talking to them). What I realized early in my professional career was that position trumps everything. For example, if you are born into a great enough position, you are set for life, pretty much regardless of anything else. Then I figured out (slowly over time through trial and error), which positions I could move to from the one I was in, where I could either: a) do less work for same pay, or b) get more pay for same work. Although a lot of times switching positions required intense "extra" work. In the end however, it seems to mostly just been a lot of luck in the way things played out, together with an intense desire to, in the long term, reduce my work-related load/responsibilities.
  - tmnvix 6y ago
    I'm curious. If you don't mind me asking, what do you talk about for those 2-5 hours?
    - ta1234567890 6y ago
      Depends on who I meet with. But mostly it's about financials, sales, planning, legal issues and team building (usually talking about personal stuff and building rapport as a group). Sometimes it's about product and programming.
horns4lyfe 6y ago
I could not agree more. I'm pretty early in my software career after a few years as a military officer, and if that job taught me one thing, it's that NOTHING at work is as important as you think it is. Looking back on those times, even in a job where lives are sometimes on the line, I can't believe how seriously I took some things and how much more fun I could have had. It's a disappointing lesson to have to learn in hindsight.
- dack 6y ago
  i still remember the time (early in my career) i was summoned to jury duty and tried to register an "undue hardship" with the judge because i had a project deadline coming up. i genuinely thought it was that important, but looking back it was really not a big deal at all (and the judge knew it) :)
  - kamaal 6y ago
    One level of enlightenment is when you understand things can be done later at your convenience. Another level of enlightenment is when you understand somethings don't have to be done at all.
    - jorgekong 6y ago
      thank you, that's a great and pithy comment
  - krick 6y ago
    It's not like spending your time on jury duty is in any way better than spending it on work (or pretty much everything, for that matter).
    - Godel_unicode 6y ago
      You don't think doing your part to guarantee your fellow citizens get their (in the US at least) constitutionally guaranteed right to a jury trial is "worth it"?
sporkologist 6y ago
I totally agree. Three days has been the max for me, as far as mental health agendas. Far more productive with 15 - 20 hours work, at the most. My employer Walmart, for some reason, isn't as conscious as many, they're telling me that my cart-collecting days are over. > Blow off weekends often. Yes definitely agree, best for health outcomes.
chii 6y ago
> it's not that hard to achieve ... from minimum wage jobs through decades of professional career. i highly doubt somebody on a minimum wage job can choose to work only 4 days a week.
- tomdell 6y ago
  If it was sufficiently long ago, which it sounds like it was, they could. Minimum wage would be significantly higher now if it had kept pace with inflation and cost of living increases over the last few decades.
- reddog 6y ago
  There is a leisure class at both ends of the economic spectrum.
  - mrec 6y ago
    That's an interesting observation, although it does depend on the benefits landscape where you live.
    - flamble 6y ago
      I love the idea of benefits conceived of as a landscape. You have the slough of despond, the scorched desert, the arctic wasteland, the jagged windswept hellscape, etc.
      - 6510 6y ago
        The old pit
- doliveira 6y ago
  Yeah, minimum wage jobs mostly won't expect you to work beyond your normal periods and days, but they definitely won't want you working less than that. The weirdest part, though, is voluntary taking several months or even a year between jobs. Now that is proper privilege.
nine_k 6y ago
What does your spouse say about your effectively freed time? Your kids?
- 082349872349872 6y ago
  I bet they appreciate the attention.
- dunefox 6y ago
  Why would they get a say in that?
  - nine_k 6y ago
    If they don't, why one would call them their family?
ksolanki 6y ago
I am not sure. My biggest driver has been to be in my death bed and having done nothing, having made no difference to the world. So I keep trying.
- tetris11 6y ago
  I like to think that friends and family will look on my works and say "he was a creative man", but deep down I know that those words will only come from a few who already know how to appreciate it. Therefore, I work to please that faceless few. I am happy with this, because it is nice to be appreciated, but at the same time I cannot help but feel that I am not building something meaningful in my more direct social circles.
benhurmarcel 6y ago
40h/week with 3 weeks off/year isn't anything out of the ordinary. If anything it's quite a bit more work time than most European workers. Taking months between jobs and going to 4 days/week is more uncommon though.
- ThePadawan 6y ago
  My own experience as a Software Engineer in Switzerland: - A lot of companies are ok with 80% (most often that means 4 days of full time work). Some aren't, but especially towards more experienced roles, it's not out of the ordinary at all. - 40h is actually somewhat rarer. I've been interviewing recently and lots of smaller companies think it's a point of pride to have 45h or 43h weeks. When you point out to them that this 12.5% rise in hours should also come with a 12.5% pay rise, they are baffled how you would come to that conclusion. - 4wk vacation is the mandatory minimum. 5wk is nice and often available.
rv-de 6y ago
sounds like me except for the 3 weeks vacation in a bad year. I guess you are living in a country with an employees-are-slaves-work-culture. In Germany five weeks is the minimum and six the norm. _maybe_ understanding your situation through my on experience I'd question your priviligedness, though, as it appears to me like you are (also) carrying a considerate psychological burden that you need to deal with. at the end of the day this is what more or less forced me to take time off between jobs. I needed that to bring back some peace and balance to my mind.
rikroots 6y ago
I decided, 3 weeks into my first full-time job (as a lab technician) that I profoundly disagreed with the concept of the capitalist work ethic. The idea that a person's life had meaning only if they stayed in work - often boring, tedious work - until their retirement day, after which they could be kicked onto the old-person's scrapheap to do fun stuff for a few years (if they were lucky) until dementia took their dignity and their memories and their final breath ... I hate that concept. I have, over the years, walked out of well-paying, high responsibility jobs (Civil Service, IT) because the stupidity of the petty empire building and office politics became too much to bear. Sometimes I've been in a situation where I had saved up enough 'rainy-day' money to give myself time off to do other stuff - finally get a degree, write some books, work on an open-source project or even, yes, spend a couple of weeks staring at a wall while I daydreamed. When I've had no money, I've taken welfare cheques, or worked in menial zero-hour-contract manual labour jobs to keep food on the table, or started fresh in an entirely different service/industry. Things I've learned: 1. Know how much money you need to survive with a roof over your head and food on the table. If you're earning more than that, you're in a good place. 2. Your job title and the numbers printed on your payslip do not determine who you are. Measure your worth in the relationships you have with your friends, family and work colleagues. Measure it in terms of your mental wellbeing. 3. There is no such thing as 'idleness'.

allenu 6y ago

I like your attitude. How, if I may ask, did you end up with your current philosophy? Was it through past experiences where people did take your time and you gave in? I love the idea of taking lots of time off, but on a personal level I have a lot of guilt surrounding that. I know it's not rational since ultimately it's my life, but it's still something I need to work on to get over. If you have tips on changing my mindset surrounding this, I'd love to hear it.

gerdesj 6y ago
caymanjim is unlikely to answer. The poor thing is knackered out from typing their post. I think that they might have been a little disingenuous. Their post was far too long and properly typed out to be from a real sloth. Fibber.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
mettamage 6y ago
I identify with his post. I always had a rebellious streak when it comes to people judging me. In return, I don’t judge other people myself. It also saves a lot of energy :) That’s how I don’t feel guilty. I am not doing anything and you can do whatever you want in life too. I find it tough to achieve though. I am currently at 4 days per week but would like to be at 3.5 days, that’s my optimum (lower than 3 days and I will go insane of not exercising my mind).
- perfunctory 6y ago
  > lower than 3 days and I will go insane of not exercising my mind It's not like paid work is the only place where you can exercise your mind
  - mettamage 6y ago
    I agree but I find it the most practical place. If I can’t exercise my mind, then there’s nothing for me at work other than obtaining an income (no SF salary here so no financial independence possible).
    - 6510 6y ago
      I do the same only I exercise the body at work.
      - mettamage 6y ago
        Nice one! Fair enough, I thought about doing that too. I chose for the mind, but IMO the body is a good option as well, especially because if you choose the right profession (i.e. light to medium exercise), it probably means you'll live longer.
- dunefox 6y ago
  If you need the workplace to 'exercise your mind' then I don't know what to tell you... all your free time gained this way is useless then if you don't know how to spend it.
  - mettamage 6y ago
    One needs to work to survive. The benefit of work for me is to exercise my mind. Other forms are available but do not aid survival. So assuming everything else is equal, I should use work to exercise my mind. The issue with work is that it is constrained to one thing (web dev in my case). I can use my free time to do whatever (relax or other exercises such as meditation).
ta1234567890 6y ago
Can't answer for caymanjim. Personally, I now work about 2-5 hours per week, mostly just meeting some people (don't have to do anything besides talking to them). What I realized early in my professional career was that position trumps everything. For example, if you are born into a great enough position, you are set for life, pretty much regardless of anything else. Then I figured out (slowly over time through trial and error), which positions I could move to from the one I was in, where I could either: a) do less work for same pay, or b) get more pay for same work. Although a lot of times switching positions required intense "extra" work. In the end however, it seems to mostly just been a lot of luck in the way things played out, together with an intense desire to, in the long term, reduce my work-related load/responsibilities.
- tmnvix 6y ago
  I'm curious. If you don't mind me asking, what do you talk about for those 2-5 hours?
  - ta1234567890 6y ago
    Depends on who I meet with. But mostly it's about financials, sales, planning, legal issues and team building (usually talking about personal stuff and building rapport as a group). Sometimes it's about product and programming.

horns4lyfe 6y ago

I could not agree more. I'm pretty early in my software career after a few years as a military officer, and if that job taught me one thing, it's that NOTHING at work is as important as you think it is. Looking back on those times, even in a job where lives are sometimes on the line, I can't believe how seriously I took some things and how much more fun I could have had. It's a disappointing lesson to have to learn in hindsight.

dack 6y ago
i still remember the time (early in my career) i was summoned to jury duty and tried to register an "undue hardship" with the judge because i had a project deadline coming up. i genuinely thought it was that important, but looking back it was really not a big deal at all (and the judge knew it) :)
- kamaal 6y ago
  One level of enlightenment is when you understand things can be done later at your convenience. Another level of enlightenment is when you understand somethings don't have to be done at all.
  - jorgekong 6y ago
    thank you, that's a great and pithy comment
- krick 6y ago
  It's not like spending your time on jury duty is in any way better than spending it on work (or pretty much everything, for that matter).
  - Godel_unicode 6y ago
    You don't think doing your part to guarantee your fellow citizens get their (in the US at least) constitutionally guaranteed right to a jury trial is "worth it"?

sporkologist 6y ago

I totally agree. Three days has been the max for me, as far as mental health agendas. Far more productive with 15 - 20 hours work, at the most. My employer Walmart, for some reason, isn't as conscious as many, they're telling me that my cart-collecting days are over. > Blow off weekends often. Yes definitely agree, best for health outcomes.

chii 6y ago

> it's not that hard to achieve ... from minimum wage jobs through decades of professional career. i highly doubt somebody on a minimum wage job can choose to work only 4 days a week.

tomdell 6y ago
If it was sufficiently long ago, which it sounds like it was, they could. Minimum wage would be significantly higher now if it had kept pace with inflation and cost of living increases over the last few decades.
reddog 6y ago
There is a leisure class at both ends of the economic spectrum.
- mrec 6y ago
  That's an interesting observation, although it does depend on the benefits landscape where you live.
  - flamble 6y ago
    I love the idea of benefits conceived of as a landscape. You have the slough of despond, the scorched desert, the arctic wasteland, the jagged windswept hellscape, etc.
    - 6510 6y ago
      The old pit
doliveira 6y ago
Yeah, minimum wage jobs mostly won't expect you to work beyond your normal periods and days, but they definitely won't want you working less than that. The weirdest part, though, is voluntary taking several months or even a year between jobs. Now that is proper privilege.

nine_k 6y ago

What does your spouse say about your effectively freed time? Your kids?

082349872349872 6y ago
I bet they appreciate the attention.
dunefox 6y ago
Why would they get a say in that?
- nine_k 6y ago
  If they don't, why one would call them their family?

ksolanki 6y ago

I am not sure. My biggest driver has been to be in my death bed and having done nothing, having made no difference to the world. So I keep trying.

tetris11 6y ago
I like to think that friends and family will look on my works and say "he was a creative man", but deep down I know that those words will only come from a few who already know how to appreciate it. Therefore, I work to please that faceless few. I am happy with this, because it is nice to be appreciated, but at the same time I cannot help but feel that I am not building something meaningful in my more direct social circles.

benhurmarcel 6y ago

40h/week with 3 weeks off/year isn't anything out of the ordinary. If anything it's quite a bit more work time than most European workers. Taking months between jobs and going to 4 days/week is more uncommon though.

ThePadawan 6y ago
My own experience as a Software Engineer in Switzerland: - A lot of companies are ok with 80% (most often that means 4 days of full time work). Some aren't, but especially towards more experienced roles, it's not out of the ordinary at all. - 40h is actually somewhat rarer. I've been interviewing recently and lots of smaller companies think it's a point of pride to have 45h or 43h weeks. When you point out to them that this 12.5% rise in hours should also come with a 12.5% pay rise, they are baffled how you would come to that conclusion. - 4wk vacation is the mandatory minimum. 5wk is nice and often available.

rv-de 6y ago

sounds like me except for the 3 weeks vacation in a bad year. I guess you are living in a country with an employees-are-slaves-work-culture. In Germany five weeks is the minimum and six the norm. _maybe_ understanding your situation through my on experience I'd question your priviligedness, though, as it appears to me like you are (also) carrying a considerate psychological burden that you need to deal with. at the end of the day this is what more or less forced me to take time off between jobs. I needed that to bring back some peace and balance to my mind.

rikroots 6y ago

I decided, 3 weeks into my first full-time job (as a lab technician) that I profoundly disagreed with the concept of the capitalist work ethic. The idea that a person's life had meaning only if they stayed in work - often boring, tedious work - until their retirement day, after which they could be kicked onto the old-person's scrapheap to do fun stuff for a few years (if they were lucky) until dementia took their dignity and their memories and their final breath ... I hate that concept. I have, over the years, walked out of well-paying, high responsibility jobs (Civil Service, IT) because the stupidity of the petty empire building and office politics became too much to bear. Sometimes I've been in a situation where I had saved up enough 'rainy-day' money to give myself time off to do other stuff - finally get a degree, write some books, work on an open-source project or even, yes, spend a couple of weeks staring at a wall while I daydreamed. When I've had no money, I've taken welfare cheques, or worked in menial zero-hour-contract manual labour jobs to keep food on the table, or started fresh in an entirely different service/industry. Things I've learned: 1. Know how much money you need to survive with a roof over your head and food on the table. If you're earning more than that, you're in a good place. 2. Your job title and the numbers printed on your payslip do not determine who you are. Measure your worth in the relationships you have with your friends, family and work colleagues. Measure it in terms of your mental wellbeing. 3. There is no such thing as 'idleness'.