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What?! Servo and the tech coming out of it is the only reason I’ve begun using Firefox as my daily driver again. The Quantum stuff has made Firefox usable again

What?! Servo and the tech coming out of it is the only reason I’ve begun using Firefox as my daily driver again. The Quantum stuff has made Firefox usable again. How are these CEO’s chosen? Really seems like Mozilla should be turned into a CO-OP or something.

guerrilla 6y ago
> Really seems like Mozilla should be turned into a CO-OP or something. I wonder if the people being fired would be sufficiently equipped to do that themselves. Though losing access to the branding may not be workable.
- techntoke 6y ago
  Time to fork it
- elcritch 6y ago
  Hmmm... if they could raise money, Servo and the "rust" link could have decent brand backing... Many alpha-geeks know of it.
  - guerrilla 6y ago
    Yeah, you're probably right especially considering rust. Maybe they can crowdfund it. I think a lot of us and many others using OSS would pitch in to see that happen.
    - rjknight 6y ago
      Same. As someone building a web app, the existence of good non-Blink/Webkit browsers is matter of importance to me, and I'd happily help to fund alternatives.
      - smnthermes 6y ago
        WebCore is already far diverged from Blink, and V8 was made from the scratch. WebKit is a solid alternative to Chromium.
- elric 6y ago
  At this rate, the name is starting to become associated with incompetence, so maybe a fork with a new name might be a good idea. A co-op would make for an interesting business model for a FOSS company. Has this been tried before? Are there any well known cases out there?
  - dandellion 6y ago
    The atrocious management is the main reason I refuse to donate a cent to Mozilla. I have no problem donating monthly to Blender and Godot, even though I don't use those nearly as much as Firefox. I would love to support the developers if they made a fork that was actually supported by the community.
    - sanxiyn 6y ago
      Especially problematic is that there is no way to donate to Firefox. None. Neither is there way to donate to Rust. As a result, I donate to Zig, but not to Rust.
      - elric 6y ago
        The same seems true for many projects under the Apache Software Foundation banner. You can donate to the ASF, but not to (most? many?) individual projects. Might be nice for these types of foundations to update their donations policy. Support project-specific donations, and maybe take some % to support the parent foundation's working.
  - mulmen 6y ago
    I don’t have any negative association with the Firefox name (yet) but I definitely do with the Mozilla name.
Jonnax 6y ago
So there's a comment from the CEO here: https://answers.thenextweb.com/s/mitchell-baker-aGY62z https://answers.thenextweb.com/s/mitchell-baker-aGY62z "Please explain how your salary of $2.5 million couldn't be put to better use as part of Emerging Technology's budget?" "Executive compensation is a general topic -- are execs, esp CEOs paid too much? I'm of the camp that thinks the different between exec comp and other comp is high. So then i think, OK what should mozilla do about it? My answer is that we try to mitigate this, but we won't solve this general social problem on our own. Here's what I mean by mitigate: we ask our executives to accept a discount from the market-based pay they could get elsewhere. But we don't ask for an 75-80% discount. I use that number because a few years ago when the then-ceo had our compensation structure examined, I learned that my pay was about an 80% discount to market. Meaning that competitive roles elsewhere were paying about 5 times as much. That's too big a discount to ask people and their families to commit to." No self awareness that rather than getting rid of people building interesting products, they don't realise that they should get rid of themselves and other executives. Firefox has been on a downward trajectory in marketshare for the last 5 years. And they've struggled to reduce their reliance on search engine deals by creating other revenue streams. They're all failures and have no self awareness. Effectively answering: We've all got ferraris and McMansions to pay off
- winrid 6y ago
  Well, it's hard to convince someone to get rid of themselves...
- bouk 6y ago
  Wow what a piece of shit. How will my poor family survive without $200k every month???
- JanSt 6y ago
  > I learned that my pay was about an 80% discount to market. Considering the companies performance, she should have been put on a PIP a long time ago, even considering the so called 80% discount. Never seems to happen to CEOs though. Management is out of touch with reality if they think they deliver any value here. edit: he to she, thanks!
fulafel 6y ago
Is the Servo originated engine ( WebRender) doing that well in Firefox? Feels like it's very slow work to make it enabled by default in stable and the speedups haven't been yhat great, meanwhile there are basically 2 very different modes that they have to support and maintain. (this is just because GPU drivers are so flaky afaict)
- sanxiyn 6y ago
  It took a long time, but WebRender is now enabled everywhere if you are on Windows 10 (and not on battery power). Current status here: https://wiki.mozilla.org/Platform/GFX/WebRender_Where https://wiki.mozilla.org/Platform/GFX/WebRender_Where
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- spiderfarmer 6y ago
  It's enabled on Windows 10 but unfinished on all other platforms: https://wiki.mozilla.org/Platform/GFX/WebRender_Where https://wiki.mozilla.org/Platform/GFX/WebRender_Where
- fulafel 6y ago
  replying to myself, apparently there's a software based webrender code path in developent too, maybe the long term plan is to drop the non-webrender code paths and just fall back to sw-webrender on setups where there are GPU driver problems?
AmericanChopper 6y ago
> How are these CEO’s chosen? Well obviously the most important factor is making sure they haven’t donated money to any of the wrong political causes.
roca 6y ago
Most of "Quantum" has been just solid engineering work on Gecko. Servo tech, in the form of Stylo, helped a bit, WebRender will help a bit more but has been mostly developed in the context of Gecko for years. "Servo is the only reason I've been using Firefox again" is not accurate at all.

guerrilla 6y ago

> Really seems like Mozilla should be turned into a CO-OP or something. I wonder if the people being fired would be sufficiently equipped to do that themselves. Though losing access to the branding may not be workable.

techntoke 6y ago
Time to fork it
elcritch 6y ago
Hmmm... if they could raise money, Servo and the "rust" link could have decent brand backing... Many alpha-geeks know of it.
- guerrilla 6y ago
  Yeah, you're probably right especially considering rust. Maybe they can crowdfund it. I think a lot of us and many others using OSS would pitch in to see that happen.
  - rjknight 6y ago
    Same. As someone building a web app, the existence of good non-Blink/Webkit browsers is matter of importance to me, and I'd happily help to fund alternatives.
    - smnthermes 6y ago
      WebCore is already far diverged from Blink, and V8 was made from the scratch. WebKit is a solid alternative to Chromium.
elric 6y ago
At this rate, the name is starting to become associated with incompetence, so maybe a fork with a new name might be a good idea. A co-op would make for an interesting business model for a FOSS company. Has this been tried before? Are there any well known cases out there?
- dandellion 6y ago
  The atrocious management is the main reason I refuse to donate a cent to Mozilla. I have no problem donating monthly to Blender and Godot, even though I don't use those nearly as much as Firefox. I would love to support the developers if they made a fork that was actually supported by the community.
  - sanxiyn 6y ago
    Especially problematic is that there is no way to donate to Firefox. None. Neither is there way to donate to Rust. As a result, I donate to Zig, but not to Rust.
    - elric 6y ago
      The same seems true for many projects under the Apache Software Foundation banner. You can donate to the ASF, but not to (most? many?) individual projects. Might be nice for these types of foundations to update their donations policy. Support project-specific donations, and maybe take some % to support the parent foundation's working.
- mulmen 6y ago
  I don’t have any negative association with the Firefox name (yet) but I definitely do with the Mozilla name.

Jonnax 6y ago

So there's a comment from the CEO here: https://answers.thenextweb.com/s/mitchell-baker-aGY62z https://answers.thenextweb.com/s/mitchell-baker-aGY62z "Please explain how your salary of $2.5 million couldn't be put to better use as part of Emerging Technology's budget?" "Executive compensation is a general topic -- are execs, esp CEOs paid too much? I'm of the camp that thinks the different between exec comp and other comp is high. So then i think, OK what should mozilla do about it? My answer is that we try to mitigate this, but we won't solve this general social problem on our own. Here's what I mean by mitigate: we ask our executives to accept a discount from the market-based pay they could get elsewhere. But we don't ask for an 75-80% discount. I use that number because a few years ago when the then-ceo had our compensation structure examined, I learned that my pay was about an 80% discount to market. Meaning that competitive roles elsewhere were paying about 5 times as much. That's too big a discount to ask people and their families to commit to." No self awareness that rather than getting rid of people building interesting products, they don't realise that they should get rid of themselves and other executives. Firefox has been on a downward trajectory in marketshare for the last 5 years. And they've struggled to reduce their reliance on search engine deals by creating other revenue streams. They're all failures and have no self awareness. Effectively answering: We've all got ferraris and McMansions to pay off

winrid 6y ago
Well, it's hard to convince someone to get rid of themselves...
bouk 6y ago
Wow what a piece of shit. How will my poor family survive without $200k every month???
JanSt 6y ago
> I learned that my pay was about an 80% discount to market. Considering the companies performance, she should have been put on a PIP a long time ago, even considering the so called 80% discount. Never seems to happen to CEOs though. Management is out of touch with reality if they think they deliver any value here. edit: he to she, thanks!

fulafel 6y ago

Is the Servo originated engine ( WebRender) doing that well in Firefox? Feels like it's very slow work to make it enabled by default in stable and the speedups haven't been yhat great, meanwhile there are basically 2 very different modes that they have to support and maintain. (this is just because GPU drivers are so flaky afaict)

sanxiyn 6y ago
It took a long time, but WebRender is now enabled everywhere if you are on Windows 10 (and not on battery power). Current status here: https://wiki.mozilla.org/Platform/GFX/WebRender_Where https://wiki.mozilla.org/Platform/GFX/WebRender_Where
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
spiderfarmer 6y ago
It's enabled on Windows 10 but unfinished on all other platforms: https://wiki.mozilla.org/Platform/GFX/WebRender_Where https://wiki.mozilla.org/Platform/GFX/WebRender_Where
fulafel 6y ago
replying to myself, apparently there's a software based webrender code path in developent too, maybe the long term plan is to drop the non-webrender code paths and just fall back to sw-webrender on setups where there are GPU driver problems?

AmericanChopper 6y ago

> How are these CEO’s chosen? Well obviously the most important factor is making sure they haven’t donated money to any of the wrong political causes.

roca 6y ago

Most of "Quantum" has been just solid engineering work on Gecko. Servo tech, in the form of Stylo, helped a bit, WebRender will help a bit more but has been mostly developed in the context of Gecko for years. "Servo is the only reason I've been using Firefox again" is not accurate at all.