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Some time back, I read all I could on procrastination, and watched dozens of videos on it, and by far the best thing I found on it was this video by Tim Pychyl:
by pmoriarty 6y ago
Some time back, I read all I could on procrastination, and watched dozens of videos on it, and by far the best thing I found on it was this video by Tim Pychyl: [1]
It focuses particularly on procrastination in graduate school, but is widely applicable elsewhere.
One of the key insights that Pychyl, a psychologist who studies procrastination, had is that procrastination is not (as is commonly believed) a time management problem but a problem with managing negative emotions.
He has lots of really useful, practical tips for overcoming procrastination in the video, which I highly recommend.
[1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhFQA998WiA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhFQA998WiA
- vitabenes 6y agoYes, Pychil's work is incorporated in our materials. This is the recipe for procrastination (according to us): 1. Think about a task - "I have to do _____." 2. Have an automatic negative reaction 2a. Negative thoughts - "I hate doing this,"... 2b Negative feelings - Feeling stressed, afraid,... 3. Procrastinate - Do something else to feel better. Procrastination is all about escaping negative emotions. Something makes you feel bad, you do something else to feel better. Feeling better (reduced discomfort) is the short-term reward engaging in procrastination. That's why procrastination can become addictive and automatic)
- epicureanideal 6y agoI still think this is too limited. Analogous to how Keynes said classical / Ricardian economics discussed distribution of goods given a fixed level of production, the linked article doesn't consider that the maximum productive output on any given day is not the same, even when the 3 variables considered are maximized. "Behavior" here seems to be a boolean, "why we take action or not take action at any given moment", but I think many people who ask how to be more motivated or productive are asking about total output, not just about the ability to begin a task. They might be able to sit down at their desk and start working, for example, but not be able to continue long even after doing all the tricks. In my experience, there is some sort of "mental energy reserve", and as that is exhausted it becomes increasingly difficult or maybe impossible to do any further productive work. If you are doing a strength training workout in the gym, no amount of "motivation" is going to let you continue lifting heavy weight indefinitely. I haven't seen much research to quantify that "mental energy reserve" or quantitatively measure how different tasks exhaust it. There also seems to be some task-related inertia.
- joekim 6y agoWell it is a lot more complicated. There is no "mental energy reserve", but we do get energized by norepinephrine in the brain and once it becomes saturated it it loses its effect. A simple technique to reset it is to activate the "sigh reflex". You just breathe in twice at a normal pace and then slowly exhale through the mouth. Another more powerful reset is to do yoga nidra for 10-20 minutes. Yoga nidra, once you figure it out, will actually deactivate the prefrontal cortex and simulate sleep. Which has a huge boost for your cognitive abilities. Both of these techniques will increase serotonin and dopamine in the brain which will decrease norepinephrine. Once norepinephrine is no longer saturated you can become energized by it again. For example, imagine a football team winning the super bowl. They've been pushing 110%. Suddenly, they're jubilant and jumping all over the place. The dopamine and serotonin pushes out the norepinephrine allowing to return and become effective again.
- epicureanideal 6y agoI'll definitely try this, but do you happen to have any links about this? And yes, I realize "mental energy reserve" isn't a scientific term, it's just a term I'm using for lack of something better to label something I experience. Re: the football team though, no matter how energized they are, that team will not be able to lift more than their 1RM (1 rep max), they won't be able to lift their 10RM (10 rep max) more than 10 times (maybe a few more on a good day). Eventually there are physical limits to their ability. Similarly if that team had not slept for 48 hours, or had done non-stop math problems for 18 hours and was asked to continue doing them.
- joekim 6y ago> Re: the football team though, no matter how energized they are, that team will not be able to lift more than their 1RM (1 rep max), they won't be able to lift their 10RM (10 rep max) more than 10 times (maybe a few more on a good day). Eventually there are physical limits to their ability. Similarly if that team had not slept for 48 hours, or had done non-stop math problems for 18 hours and was asked to continue doing them. I want to challenge your thought experiment. Consider Navy Seal training. Pushing through via sheer force of will isn't possible. There needs to be a cycling and restorative process that enables above and beyond grit. Clip of Prof Huberman on "quitting behavior" such as quitting a long bout of work. (Note: Noradrenaline is norepinephrine. It's a weird historical thing where two teams discovered it and nobody agreed on the real name) https://podclips.com/ct/y4Ucji https://podclips.com/ct/y4Ucji Good Joe Rogan with Huberman. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLJowTOkZVo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLJowTOkZVo
- al_ak 6y agoI really do hope your page helps some people with their procrastination issues. But I can't help feel like your whole approach suffers from engineers disease. But maybe that's what will resonate with some folks. A compassionate therapist can also do wonders for procrastination.
- vitabenes 6y agoYeah, I know what you're saying. This is more of a clinical disection of procrastination. Many more of our blog posts and book chapters are more about the emotional side of things. Plus, we do coach people 1-on-1 in our program.
- al_ak 6y agoThat sounds pretty great actually. I just know what for me, none of this really "clicked" until I had someone to work through these emotions with
- joekim 6y agoMost procrastination is emotional management, a sort of self-medicating from stress. Having a skilled therapist working through it with you sounds fantastic. I really like a technique called the "Sedona Method" for releasing difficult emotions.
- indigochill 6y agoI find it amusing when I look up "Sedona Method" I find lots of blurbs in the search previews about how simple and powerful it is, yet none of them actually give any clue as to what it involves (but you can buy a book that will reveal the secret!). Not a criticism of the technique (since I have no idea what it involves, although I'm curious), moreso of the optics to someone searching for it. As opposed to something like the Pomodoro Technique which a search for does turn up blurbs about what it involves.
- 6y ago
- hnick 6y agoSometimes when I am very emotionally upset or have a very negative task I want to avoid like studying, I will get the sudden urge to clean or work on a similar low-brainpower project (which is not something that comes naturally to me in normal times). If I were merely trying to feel better I'd just go for video games or something like I normally do, but there must be something else going on that directs me to focus on simple and useful ways to feel better in the most extreme cases. It'd be nice to capture that in a bottle.
- edoceo 6y agoI have this. I think it's because we're procrastinating on a "productive" thing. So to escape to empty feel good is too far for the brain, cue something mindless, easy but still somehow productive.
- hnick 6y agoI suppose stress-cleaning is a common enough trope, so it must be a real thing. The mindlessness and almost meditative factor seems key like you say.
- vitabenes 6y agoProcrastination is an escape from stress, unease, and discomfort. Cleaning provides that escape. It gives you a boost of dopamine as well since you're accomplishing something. In addition to that, it's a visual activity - you immediately see progress. It's a super common procrastination activity.
- TeMPOraL 6y agoFeelings are complex. Personally, at any given time, I have two or three of sideprojects, videogames and TV shows I could focus on, each. But when I procrastinate, I end up reading HN or some subreddit or something similar, instead of coding my side projects or playing a game I've been waiting to play for the past year. I've traced that to feelings of guilt. I can't enjoy a videogame if I feel I'm only using it to escape and make my situation worse. I can probably enjoy a TV show a bit, for a while, until my brain realizes that it's just an escape mechanism and I get more stressed. But social media in general, offer you a bite-sized escape. There's nothing wrong in taking 2 minutes break to skim comments on a HN thread, or scroll through some funny pictures somewhere. 2 more minutes won't make a difference either. 2 more? And suddenly it's been 5 hours. So in the end, I don't do the things I have to, and I also don't do the things I want to - all because negative emotions. (Part of my solution to this problem was just blocking certain sites (like HN) on the router during work hours.)
- jehlakj 6y agoWow that number 3 hit me hard. I’ve always known myself to procrastinate, but I only think about 1 and 2. In retrospect, I have done 3 in a lot of cases. I just never really thought about it. In fact, I am extremely focused on working on the other task that I’ve always wondered where the motivation comes from.
- agumonkey 6y agoa few thoughts: - how much of society is related to driving up or enforcing overcoming these avoidant reflexes - the negative feeling is often due to a social obligation that may be distorded. You could renegotiate smaller chunks or different terms.. the idea is that in a different context you might approach it with lot more will. ps: my current gig is in a national office and I could very well rebrand it as land-of-the-procrastinator. It's an endemic disease where nobody wanted to do things (the way they were asked), any newcomer will be dragged down, ensure a good status-low.
- jwdunne 6y agoThis actually looks like the ground work for cognitive behavioural therapy. The idea (grossly simplified) is to take those observations of negative thoughts and build a rational response to those thoughts (cognitive part). Then you build a habit of noticing those thoughts and responding with the rational response. It’s far easier said than done, and perhaps best dispensed by a therapist. But these mental tools have been crucial to improving my own mental health. Some great books on that go into more depth than I ever could include Feeling Good by Burns or Byrne, Overcoming Anxiety and Overcoming Depression.
- jazzdev 6y agoInteresting video. Pychil claims that procrastination is a weakness of will. For another perspective, check out the book, "Scarcity: Why Having Too Little Means So Much" [1], which claims it's not just about will (executive function), but also about tunnel vision and reduced fluid intelligence, all caused by a situation of scarcity--time scarcity in the case of procrastination. And they claim reduced executive function is situational. It's not a fundamental attribute of the procrastinator. [1] = https://www.amazon.com/Scarcity-Having-Little-Means-Much-ebook/dp/B00BMKOO6S https://www.amazon.com/Scarcity-Having-Little-Means-Much-ebo...
- sirmarksalot 6y agoThanks for this. I found the article to be really naive in a Dale Carnegie kind of way, that probably appeals to someone in their mid-20s trying to reinvent themselves, but is actually a psychological dead end. For me, procrastination has definitely fit the profile of pain avoidance rather than a lack of any of those three elements the article focuses on.
- Voliokis 6y agoThe article is entirely based on Fogg's behavior model. Your criticism isn't really addressing the article, it's addressing the model used. As for pain avoidance, that seems to be a part of the factor Motivation, which is divided into the sub-factors Sensation, Anticipation and Social Cohesion. I've found a number of sites explaining the model and they all have something like this to say about Sensation: > Searching to experience pleasure or avoiding pain. These strong motivators are thought to be a primitive and immediate response to information. I can't find an official source for it, so I have to assume it's in Fogg's book. But it seems pain avoidance is something that is addressed by the model. Some relevant links: https://blog.crobox.com/article/fogg-behavior-model https://blog.crobox.com/article/fogg-behavior-model https://www.buzzstream.com/blog/the-psychology-of-behavior-change-a-guide-for-link-development-professionals.html https://www.buzzstream.com/blog/the-psychology-of-behavior-c... https://mariashriver.com/stanford-researcher-bj-fogg-on-the-tiny-habits-that-lead-to-big-breakthroughs/ https://mariashriver.com/stanford-researcher-bj-fogg-on-the-... https://lifehacker.com/how-to-stop-procrastinating-with-behavior-scientist-bj-1842027698 https://lifehacker.com/how-to-stop-procrastinating-with-beha... As for Fogg, he seems to be a research associate at Stanford and founded the Behavior Design Lab. How much weight that carries, no idea. https://behaviordesign.stanford.edu/ https://behaviordesign.stanford.edu/ edit: I think I found the paper where FBM is from http://captology.stanford.edu/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Behavior-Model-for-Persuasive-Design.pdf http://captology.stanford.edu/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Beh... (found through https://behaviordesign.stanford.edu/fogg-behavior-model https://behaviordesign.stanford.edu/fogg-behavior-model)
- spekcular 6y agoThis model doesn't seem to have ever been tested empirically. (I would be happy to be corrected on this point.) Given that, I think it's appropriate to raise doubts about its clinical effectiveness.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- flir 6y ago> Some time back, I read all I could on procrastination, and watched dozens of videos on it Honestly thought you were setting us up for a punchline, there.
- PTOB 6y agoSeriously, did he eventually get back to work or what???
- tonystubblebine 6y agoYes, Tim is so good. He also wrote a great Medium article for one of our publications there. Here the link that'll bypass the paywall: https://medium.com/better-humans/how-to-use-psychology-to-solve-the-procrastination-puzzle-6e6a56cdd535?source=friends_link&sk=893a02c6170debb38c42c2e1e9d1d2d8 https://medium.com/better-humans/how-to-use-psychology-to-so...
- nprz 6y agoThanks for sharing, I'll watch it tomorrow.
- reidjs 6y agoThanks for posting this video, I found it really helpful. For people who don't have the time to watch this is a strategy I learned from it that I might try out with my TODOS: "In situation X I will do behavior Y to achieve subgoal Z" His example was "When this workshop ends today, I'm going straight to the library to read 4 pages of that paper that I'm struggling to read to achieve the subgoal of finishing this paragraph in my thesis" The idea is you don't have to think about some vague topic. You just go on autopilot like, oh the workshop is over now I have to do this thing, therefore you're more likely to do it.
- DelightOne 6y agoIf you don't have the steps to achieve X and you can't come up with the steps on the fly (or the steps you know do not work) then you will not be able to do X when you want to.
- reidjs 6y agoIn my understanding X is a situation not a goal to achieve. So it can be as simple as 'Today at 5pm' or 'I am at a bar craving a cigarette'
- DelightOne 6y agoMy comment was more a general issue. If you know what to do then planning specific slots to do them, makes sense.
- Tyr42 6y agoI know I procrastinate when I don't know how to start. But learning how to break things down into chunks and make a checklist makes it a lot easier to avoid that. A well defined task is actually fun to do, and I'm much less likely to avoid it.
- vitabenes 6y agoI think this has to with the unknowns of modern work. In knowledge work, we need to: 1. Define the work 2. Do the work Can't do what's not defined. In general, the simple advice I give our clients is to take a piece of paper and a pen, and put all the ideas about the task out there. Take 5-15 minutes and try to define it. Basecamp's Shape Up book is a lot about managing the unknowns.
- jdc 6y ago[...] procrastination is not (as is commonly believed) a time management problem but a problem with managing negative emotions. Could there not be a catch 22 here where the negative emotions causing procrastination are in turn caused by the accumulating mess that said vice so often causes?
- Ma8ee 6y agoI would call that a vicious circle, not a catch 22, but the mechanism you describe is real.
- ksd482 6y agoThanks for sharing. I just finished watching this. It was very helpful!
- RedShift1 6y agoAlright I will check this out... later.
- firecall 6y agoThats interesting! I'm an ADHD sufferer. And one of the things they about Ritalin is that it's a DRI (dopamine reuptake inhibitor). More dopamine might mean you kinda feel more positive!
- afarrell 6y agoAlso an ADHDer here. My current model of things is that Dopamine broadly signals messages like "you're going the right way, keep going". Insufficient dopamine and you end up being really open to needing frequent positive feedback to follow through on a plan. Leading to either: 1) Distractibility -- greater task-switching in the face of frustration or negative emotions. 2) Hyperfocus -- lower task-switching in the face of frequent rewards (like from a video game or novel or programming with test-driven-development). And then there's a bunch of other mood impacts from the life-impacts of that. For example: Emotional sensitivity due to memories of people being disappointed in you.
- simonebrunozzi 6y ago> Some time back, I read all I could on procrastination, and watched dozens of videos on it You should have not done this; and instead focused on what you wanted to do in the first place!! </silly sarcasm>
- den01100100 6y agoI watched the talk and found it interesting. Thanks for the link! One thing that I was surprised to see was the "ego depletion / willpower is like a muscle" discussion at the end. Did you encounter that a lot in your reading? I recently saw this article: https://hbr.org/2016/11/have-we-been-thinking-about-willpower-the-wrong-way-for-30-years https://hbr.org/2016/11/have-we-been-thinking-about-willpowe... In summary, they failed to reproduce a classic experiment for ego depletion, and propose some other theories. Some of the theories proposed imply that holding the _belief_ that willpower is a finite resource is self-fulfilling. Looking on HN for "ego depletion", a number of articles have been posted regarding the reproducibility of that particular theory. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12068444 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12068444 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11239674 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11239674 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16117314 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16117314 Overall, this leaves me very skeptical about any advice about what procrastination is and how to fix it.
- lolsal 6y agoI also found this video very interesting and I took some notes while watching it. Thank you.
- hbarka 6y agoThank you. I’ve saved this video to watch later.