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From the perspective of a mobile app/game developer, I’d say developers who sell apps on the app stores aren’t so lucky. You need to respond, and resolve issues

From the perspective of a mobile app/game developer, I’d say developers who sell apps on the app stores aren’t so lucky. You need to respond, and resolve issues of each and every customer, otherwise get bombarded with a bunch of negative reviews from accounts of everyone they know. Just like the recent fate of TikTok app, but in a smaller scale. One time a single customer nearly took our business down by writing 1 star reviews every day for weeks about how we fucked him over with a paid app (that was $4.99) and that we were scamming because we didn’t fully refund him for the service he used for a month. The review highlights would only show his reviews so download and sale dropped, competitor ranked #1 from #2 .. and it was one hell of an experience. One day that guy stopped rating our app, and things started getting better. Yeah, it’s a bad idea to put the fate of your business in a single app, but we were just starting out. This happened because we kinda fired our one customer. From that day, everyone who asks for a refund even after using up the services gets a refund. Feature requests go to a voting arena; so far so good. We’re not sinking now.

grwthckrmstr 6y ago
That sounds horrible, and I can relate. Shopify store owners who are bad customers can also hold you hostage by posting a 1 star review (unless you meet their demands). Like you highlighted, it's even worse on mobile app stores as it's easy for them to get their friends to leave bad ratings. Great that you survived and grew out stronger from the experience :)
m463 6y ago
I remember reading the four hour work week years ago, and he said something like refund no questions asked. Look, amazon offers refunds when people send back a brick instead of a computer and jeff bezos is rich enough to compete in the space race 2.0
- mcny 6y ago
  > Look, amazon offers refunds when people send back a brick instead of a computer and jeff bezos is rich enough to compete in the space race 2.0 I don’t do this. Not because I am a good person with morals but because I’m scared of being banned from Amazon.com Amazon.com can easily track what items I looked at and what items I place on my cart. What’s to stop them from tracking what items I return?
  - StavrosK 6y ago
    I have a friend who returns everything when he buys something new, once every year or two, for a full refund. He'll literally buy a phone, use it for a year, then claim it has a dead pixel, send it back for a refund and buy a new phone. He hasn't been banned yet, though I kind of hope he does.
    - HatchedLake721 6y ago
      There’s always someone taking advantage and ruining it for everybody else.
      - bbeekley 6y ago
        Not defending fraud (in general or in this specific case), but who it being ruined for? Amazon is still making fabulous amounts of money, prices are still low there, and the policy is still generous to the customer.
        mikeklaas 6y ago
        Unless the friend is only buying Amazon-branded products, the merchant is being screwed
        rvnx 6y ago
        It's the reason Amazon is getting more and more strict on such returns. Legitimate users are punished.
        analog31 6y ago
        In my view it hurts the suppliers who are trying to do business through Amazon. It also hurts other customers, since it reinforces the idea that you can ship stuff with unknown or intermittent quality, and let the return process serve as your quality control.
        m463 6y ago
        You would like the Stainless Steel Rat scifi series of books by Harry Harrison. :)
- quietbritishjim 6y ago
  I think this is especially relevant in this case because this customer spent so much time and effort giving bad reviews that it seems like they must have genuinely felt that they had been screwed over, rather than being someone trying one on like your example of people returning a brick for a refund. Depending how you/they value their time, they probably spent more than that $4.99 posting those reviews. (Certainly, there are times when I would happily have spent $20 of my own money if meant $5 got taken from some business I felt had treated me badly.)
- analog31 6y ago
  I sell a physical product, and this is my policy as well. I don't really care if I get the product back. I've learned that most customers calm down greatly, once they know two things: 1. They're interacting with a real person 2. They didn't just dump their money into a black hole So I always start with empathy and an offer to refund their cost, and then proceed with the troubleshooting. Most of the time, it's something like, oops I put a dead battery in, or set it up wrong. Refunds are part of the cost of doing business. I have an extremely high quality standard, to make sure those refunds are quite rare. A person who used to blog about the online junk business said that the only reasonable policy is: Refund instantly, and ban the customer forever.
mcv 6y ago
App markets (and so many other rating services) are often so dominated by fake 5-star and toxic 1-star reviews, that I think any rating system needs to take the credibility of the reviewer into account. Any account that only gives 1 or 5 star reviews, should probably have the value of those reviews reduced. A new account created only to give an extreme review of one product, is probably not too credible. Established accounts that give varied and nuanced reviews are more useful and more valuable. These considerations should go into the calculation of the final rating, as well as which reviews are featured. That way, I think you can discourage fake or toxic reviews and reduce their impact, and focus more on honest reviews.
- IshKebab 6y ago
  Amazon does do this now I believe. I've definitely seen products with mostly 5* reviews that have an overall score of like 3*. There's some vague explanation in their help system but they don't go into details unfortunately (for obvious reasons).
  - chillwaves 6y ago
    The only thing Amazon does is artificially inflate their rating up regardless of the individual reviews. https://www.amazon.com/Rain-X-RX68106-ICER-WASHER-FLUID/dp/B001DQA89S https://www.amazon.com/Rain-X-RX68106-ICER-WASHER-FLUID/dp/B... This wiper fluid is known to cause expensive failures for rain wiper fluid sensors but it has a cheerful 4.6/5 aggregate rating, despite the numerous 1 star reviews saying the product broke their car.
- justin_oaks 6y ago
  Sadly that can be gamed too. The fake account can give 2-4 star reviews to randomly selected apps in an attempt to not have it's targeted review devalued. But it would be useful for normal accounts. Some people are just super-critical of everything. A 1 star review from such a person shouldn't count for as much. Same thing on the other side with people who only give 5-star reviews.
eps 6y ago
This only applies if you are selling through a 3rd party platform. If you are selling directly, enforcing the T&C against scammy customers is much easier.
- njsubedi 6y ago
  I don’t think that ends there. The customer can, given they have the time and will, throw shit at your brand in popular forums and user groups.
  - eps 6y ago
    It certainly does, in the vast majority of cases. Ranting on forums is far less effective and satisfying to the ranter because it's not boiled down to a 1-star rating and because it's easy to recognize a rant as such. So it's less attractive to begin with.
metafunctor 6y ago
This matches with what I've learned as well with digital B2C products. You should fully refund with a very low bar. No questions asked, even. Assume the customer has a point, even if you don't fully get what the point is. If they are not happy for whatever reason, promptly give them their money back, apologise for the bad experience, and move on. Furthermore, your customer support should never be defensive; their job is not to protect your company but really side with the customer. Early on, when every dollar counts, it's easy to fall into the trap of trying to argue with the customer to keep their money. Just don't do that, it will annoy the customer and you'll have to refund them anyway. Yes, some people will take advantage of this, especially with refunds. That's the cost of doing B2C business, perhaps with digital products in particular where it's hard to prove the customer “received value”. When they say ”the customer is always right”, as cheesy as it sounds, they have a point. And it's not that the customer is always technically correct, but assuming that stance will be better for your business.
- jenscow 6y ago
  Also, that customer has unwittingly provided a service - they gave feedback. They might have identified something that many other people have experienced, but didn't bother to tell you. Depending on the situation, I usually gave a refund before asking for more details and see how the product can be improved from this.
- wjnc 6y ago
  Just as in mobile gaming you're mainly catering to whales, this kind of customer service is catering to sharks (or snarks?). It's a bad equilibrium to be in since bad customers do exist and the platforms act like they don't. Wisdom of the crowds is in averages, not in catering to the bottom .1%. I'm in old school insurance and we even have legitimised platforms to catch cheaters, liers and those that would threaten our staff. They don't get insurance anywhere after things like that. I would say that on average that leads to better premiums and better customer service, having procedures to remove the bottom .1% from service. A transaction shouldn't be based on received value (ex post), but on perceived value (ex ante). Two parties commit to a contract and follow through. We (EU) have laws about how to deal with problems after a legal commitment is made even for online. I think the US has less of that leading to the concept of (ex post) service as being free returns, unlimited refunds etc. It makes business harder, in a way. You can't guarantee happiness but you can guarantee delivering your part of the deal. It's a different mindset based partly on different legalities.

grwthckrmstr 6y ago

That sounds horrible, and I can relate. Shopify store owners who are bad customers can also hold you hostage by posting a 1 star review (unless you meet their demands). Like you highlighted, it's even worse on mobile app stores as it's easy for them to get their friends to leave bad ratings. Great that you survived and grew out stronger from the experience :)

m463 6y ago

I remember reading the four hour work week years ago, and he said something like refund no questions asked. Look, amazon offers refunds when people send back a brick instead of a computer and jeff bezos is rich enough to compete in the space race 2.0

mcny 6y ago
> Look, amazon offers refunds when people send back a brick instead of a computer and jeff bezos is rich enough to compete in the space race 2.0 I don’t do this. Not because I am a good person with morals but because I’m scared of being banned from Amazon.com Amazon.com can easily track what items I looked at and what items I place on my cart. What’s to stop them from tracking what items I return?
- StavrosK 6y ago
  I have a friend who returns everything when he buys something new, once every year or two, for a full refund. He'll literally buy a phone, use it for a year, then claim it has a dead pixel, send it back for a refund and buy a new phone. He hasn't been banned yet, though I kind of hope he does.
  - HatchedLake721 6y ago
    There’s always someone taking advantage and ruining it for everybody else.
    - bbeekley 6y ago
      Not defending fraud (in general or in this specific case), but who it being ruined for? Amazon is still making fabulous amounts of money, prices are still low there, and the policy is still generous to the customer.
      - mikeklaas 6y ago
        Unless the friend is only buying Amazon-branded products, the merchant is being screwed
      - rvnx 6y ago
        It's the reason Amazon is getting more and more strict on such returns. Legitimate users are punished.
      - analog31 6y ago
        In my view it hurts the suppliers who are trying to do business through Amazon. It also hurts other customers, since it reinforces the idea that you can ship stuff with unknown or intermittent quality, and let the return process serve as your quality control.
      - m463 6y ago
        You would like the Stainless Steel Rat scifi series of books by Harry Harrison. :)
quietbritishjim 6y ago
I think this is especially relevant in this case because this customer spent so much time and effort giving bad reviews that it seems like they must have genuinely felt that they had been screwed over, rather than being someone trying one on like your example of people returning a brick for a refund. Depending how you/they value their time, they probably spent more than that $4.99 posting those reviews. (Certainly, there are times when I would happily have spent $20 of my own money if meant $5 got taken from some business I felt had treated me badly.)
analog31 6y ago
I sell a physical product, and this is my policy as well. I don't really care if I get the product back. I've learned that most customers calm down greatly, once they know two things: 1. They're interacting with a real person 2. They didn't just dump their money into a black hole So I always start with empathy and an offer to refund their cost, and then proceed with the troubleshooting. Most of the time, it's something like, oops I put a dead battery in, or set it up wrong. Refunds are part of the cost of doing business. I have an extremely high quality standard, to make sure those refunds are quite rare. A person who used to blog about the online junk business said that the only reasonable policy is: Refund instantly, and ban the customer forever.

mcv 6y ago

App markets (and so many other rating services) are often so dominated by fake 5-star and toxic 1-star reviews, that I think any rating system needs to take the credibility of the reviewer into account. Any account that only gives 1 or 5 star reviews, should probably have the value of those reviews reduced. A new account created only to give an extreme review of one product, is probably not too credible. Established accounts that give varied and nuanced reviews are more useful and more valuable. These considerations should go into the calculation of the final rating, as well as which reviews are featured. That way, I think you can discourage fake or toxic reviews and reduce their impact, and focus more on honest reviews.

IshKebab 6y ago
Amazon does do this now I believe. I've definitely seen products with mostly 5* reviews that have an overall score of like 3*. There's some vague explanation in their help system but they don't go into details unfortunately (for obvious reasons).
- chillwaves 6y ago
  The only thing Amazon does is artificially inflate their rating up regardless of the individual reviews. https://www.amazon.com/Rain-X-RX68106-ICER-WASHER-FLUID/dp/B001DQA89S https://www.amazon.com/Rain-X-RX68106-ICER-WASHER-FLUID/dp/B... This wiper fluid is known to cause expensive failures for rain wiper fluid sensors but it has a cheerful 4.6/5 aggregate rating, despite the numerous 1 star reviews saying the product broke their car.
justin_oaks 6y ago
Sadly that can be gamed too. The fake account can give 2-4 star reviews to randomly selected apps in an attempt to not have it's targeted review devalued. But it would be useful for normal accounts. Some people are just super-critical of everything. A 1 star review from such a person shouldn't count for as much. Same thing on the other side with people who only give 5-star reviews.

eps 6y ago

This only applies if you are selling through a 3rd party platform. If you are selling directly, enforcing the T&C against scammy customers is much easier.

njsubedi 6y ago
I don’t think that ends there. The customer can, given they have the time and will, throw shit at your brand in popular forums and user groups.
- eps 6y ago
  It certainly does, in the vast majority of cases. Ranting on forums is far less effective and satisfying to the ranter because it's not boiled down to a 1-star rating and because it's easy to recognize a rant as such. So it's less attractive to begin with.

metafunctor 6y ago

This matches with what I've learned as well with digital B2C products. You should fully refund with a very low bar. No questions asked, even. Assume the customer has a point, even if you don't fully get what the point is. If they are not happy for whatever reason, promptly give them their money back, apologise for the bad experience, and move on. Furthermore, your customer support should never be defensive; their job is not to protect your company but really side with the customer. Early on, when every dollar counts, it's easy to fall into the trap of trying to argue with the customer to keep their money. Just don't do that, it will annoy the customer and you'll have to refund them anyway. Yes, some people will take advantage of this, especially with refunds. That's the cost of doing B2C business, perhaps with digital products in particular where it's hard to prove the customer “received value”. When they say ”the customer is always right”, as cheesy as it sounds, they have a point. And it's not that the customer is always technically correct, but assuming that stance will be better for your business.

jenscow 6y ago
Also, that customer has unwittingly provided a service - they gave feedback. They might have identified something that many other people have experienced, but didn't bother to tell you. Depending on the situation, I usually gave a refund before asking for more details and see how the product can be improved from this.
wjnc 6y ago
Just as in mobile gaming you're mainly catering to whales, this kind of customer service is catering to sharks (or snarks?). It's a bad equilibrium to be in since bad customers do exist and the platforms act like they don't. Wisdom of the crowds is in averages, not in catering to the bottom .1%. I'm in old school insurance and we even have legitimised platforms to catch cheaters, liers and those that would threaten our staff. They don't get insurance anywhere after things like that. I would say that on average that leads to better premiums and better customer service, having procedures to remove the bottom .1% from service. A transaction shouldn't be based on received value (ex post), but on perceived value (ex ante). Two parties commit to a contract and follow through. We (EU) have laws about how to deal with problems after a legal commitment is made even for online. I think the US has less of that leading to the concept of (ex post) service as being free returns, unlimited refunds etc. It makes business harder, in a way. You can't guarantee happiness but you can guarantee delivering your part of the deal. It's a different mindset based partly on different legalities.