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Apple takes legal action against small company with pear logo
- rvz 6y agoNow Apple Inc. is literally com-pear-ing Apples to Pears. Maybe the offending characteristic of this is the leaf. But really is Apple Inc. seriously complaining that a Pear is similar to an Apple? Unfortunately, they will still win this legal fight anyway.
- cheschire 6y agoWell, if deadmau5 can win against Disney, I don't think it's impossible.
- ummonk 6y agoIt was weird that Disney settled that one, since deadmau5’s branding certainly would make branded products appear to be from Microsoft given that it looks like a cross between Mickey Mouse and the Xbox logo.
- dvtrn 6y agoNow Apple Inc. is literally com-pear-ing Apples to Pears. ... Going to need you to get your things and come with me. But also as another commenter said I think/hope Deadmau5 v Disney comes up in arguments because I agree: this is seriously petty of Apple’s legal team but I’d love to read their actual complaint if anyone finds it (personal pet peeve of mine when outlets report on “someone is taking legal action against someone else” with nothing but a few quotes and statements from someone party to the action. Could we at least see the demand letter?)
- jcrawfordor 6y agoThere is no lawsuit, this is a trademark opposition. It's an administrative process through USPTO. It works through an administrative court that has some resemblance to a civil suit but the whole thing has a much more standardized procedure. Instead of a complaint letter, there is a notice of opposition that's usually pretty brief.
- kxrm 6y agoYou can search the USPTO database https://ttabvue.uspto.gov/ttabvue/v?pnam=Apple%20Inc.%20%20 https://ttabvue.uspto.gov/ttabvue/v?pnam=Apple%20Inc.%20%20 Edit: found the prosecution history here https://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=87315348&caseType=SERIAL_NO&searchType=statusSearch https://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=87315348&caseType=SERIAL_...
- jfk13 6y agoYou're in luck -- the article embeds a copy of the entire (352-page) opposition filing. (Maybe it was added since you read it, as it appears to be an update.)
- pgo 6y agoHow, why doesn't a judge throw out apple's case in the first hearing itself. What legal blackmagic can make such a one sided case drag out
- paul_f 6y agoGreat question. A competent judge would jettison this with summary judgement on day one.
- Orou 6y agoIt depends whether or not they are sued in a state where SLAPP suits are legal. If Apple isn't forced to provide compelling evidence that they have an actual case up front, they can tie up their opposition in expensive legal battles long enough that it won't matter whether or not they win the case. Their opposition may be victorious legally, but made bankrupt in the process. Of all the things the U.S. legal system got wrong, I think not following the English rule of attorneys' fees was one of the biggest mistakes. If plaintiffs had to pay for the defendant's legal fees, and vice versa, should the opposing party win their case, large corporations might think twice about making spurious legal claims.
- ummonk 6y agoI don’t know how it works in the UK but there must be some kind of caveat there right? Otherwise it would seem to me that large corporations would pay for expensive lawyers, forcing small people to settle lest they risk having to pay a hefty legal bill.
- WrtCdEvrydy 6y agoYes, correct.
- jedberg 6y agoI like the English rules, but how does it work in practice? How do things like in house lawyers work? If I sue a big corp and lose, how do I pay for all their in house lawyers and experts? How do they keep me from backing out simply through the threat of running up the tab with a ton of experts and such? How much of a chilling effect is there on people suing big corps? Is that less necessary because of better consumer protection?
- rapnie 6y agoYes, this is bananas!
- hnick 6y agoNow they just have to go after Orange in the UK ;)
- throw03172019 6y agoLol. These logos look nothing alike. What a waste of legal fees.
- iseanstevens 6y agoThere is no waste of legal fees if you are a lawyer.
- quink 6y agoDoes it matter if Apple loses this? Worst case they are trading a tiny bit of reputation and money for being in the news as a company that is deadly and ridiculously serious about its brand image. #2 on Hacker News. And so far all that’s been sent is a letter, this will never go before a court anyway. Might not always be a worthwhile trade-off, but might very well be.
- warmcat 6y agoThis is the definition of bullshit work applied to Apple legal teams. Busywork to justify their costs and pay.
- jdhn 6y agoWho would see those two logos and think that they're from the same company? The only 2 similarities is that the logos are representations of fruit, and that they both have a little oval shaped leaf on them.
- tyingq 6y agoNot saying this is what happened, but it occurs to me that just saying this is happening is a pretty good PR splash. This came to mind since neither the story or petition has a screenshot of a threatening email or letter from Apple. Edit: Appears Apple is opposing it. Found this by trawling around myself: https://ttabvue.uspto.gov/ttabvue/v?pno=91254886&pty=OPP https://ttabvue.uspto.gov/ttabvue/v?pno=91254886&pty=OPP You can start there and find links to download the legal letters from Apple.
- gundmc 6y agoI don't quite follow. Are you suggesting Apple is not pursuing legal action against this company? Or that they are using the fact that they are being sued to raise their own profile? The second is clear, but it's probably their best play - when life gives you lemons and all that. I don't see what that has to do with threatening emails though.
- tyingq 6y ago"I don't see what that has to do with threatening emails though" Every time I've seen a story like this, it's accompanied by excerpts or screenshots of letters, emails, or court docs...or at least short quotes. I suppose in this case, the relevant text from Apple challenging the trademark is what you would expect to see. Edit: Okay, I found the dispute by trawling records myself. Appears apple is disputing it: https://ttabvue.uspto.gov/ttabvue/v?pno=91254886&pty=OPP https://ttabvue.uspto.gov/ttabvue/v?pno=91254886&pty=OPP You can follow the links to find various documents from Apple.
- zepto 6y agoIs there actually any evidence that Apple has pursued legal action against them?
- tyingq 6y agoI updated my comment...I found the evidence by searching the US trademark site.
- 6y ago
- redleggedfrog 6y agoWell, I could vote with my dollars, but I guess I already do - never bought an Apple product...
- swayson 6y agoThis is in bad taste from Apple.
- dredds 6y agoRotten. It's going to go pear-shaped clearly.
- tedunangst 6y agoWouldn't it be more viable to change the logo temporarily instead of laying off staff, gain some more traction, then revamp the logo a year from now when you have more secure finances?
- gundmc 6y agoRebranding is extremely expensive.
- ErikAugust 6y agoFor anyone allergic to websites with chum boxes and endless ad tracking garbage, here is the article without that: https://beta.trimread.com/articles/31694 https://beta.trimread.com/articles/31694
- SftwreEngnr 6y agoThank you daddy
- svnpenn 6y agoor just use uBlock Origin
- kristopolous 6y agoYou should put the URL in the URL structure so it exposes it on the link like how Apple news and amp does. Currently it looks like you're stripping that information and replacing it with an id. You could even do something that I did about 7 years ago that people hated for a reason I still do not know and I abandoned, which is if a url is just an id then you create a stub from the document title and use that in your url structure instead. Then it communicates the purpose of the content in those cases as well. Here's the code https://github.com/kristopolous/linkgo.es https://github.com/kristopolous/linkgo.es
- ErikAugust 6y agoI agree - I have more expressive URLs on the roadmap. Thanks for the link.
- vezycash 6y agoAnti-bullying law is seriously needed. Awarding the bullied who triumphs 10 - 100x their legal fee that attracts interest every day the bully refuses to pay by going to a higher court.
- supernova87a 6y agoI'm all for the pear company succeeding. But what do you mean by bullying? And why does it deserve 10-100x penalty? I hazard to guess you're maybe applying emotional baggage about personal bullying to the corporate world. This is just a trademark dispute, asserted by one, refuted by another. It happens all the time. It could be the smaller company suing the larger one even. This isn't like a patent troll leech on society case. I'm kind of fascinated to understand what must be in your mind or experience that you think such penalties for normal legal actions are warranted. *edited to correct as trademark dispute
- grumple 6y agoLarge companies win without a fight because the legal costs are easily assumed by them, but are devastating to smaller businesses. Wealth usually wins by default because smaller companies can’t afford the fight. Surely that’s easy to understand? If you think this is all “working as intended”... well... that’s unfortunate and I think the vast majority of people would disagree.
- the_other 6y ago“Wealth usually wins by default” is fully “as intended”, according to Noam Chomsky.
- echelon 6y agoApple has unlimited money. They're terrorizing a mom and pop. Apple needs to lose, and they need to pay $10-50M for torturing these poor, resourceless people. This is so asymmetrically unfair it hurts.
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- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- m3kw9 6y agoIt seem more like the legal dept went ahead on this one without higher up PR oking this
- microcolonel 6y agoIt would be nice if they had some way to send them cash. I have no interest in their application, but this action is frivolous and without merit, and Apple should lose outright if it ever makes it to a court.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- adrianmonk 6y agoNot the first time Apple has taken action against a company using a pear! From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_II_series#Clones https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_II_series#Clones : > Another European Apple II clone was the Pearcom Pear II, which was larger as the original as it sported not eight but fourteen expansion slots. It also had a numerical keypad. Pearcom initially used a pear shaped rainbow logo, but stopped after Apple threatened to take legal action. Here's one of their ads: https://www.apple2history.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/pear2.jpg https://www.apple2history.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/pea... In that case, the situation was much clearer, though. The product was a clone of an Apple computer, so no question they are in the same market. Also, Pearcom's pear logo had a rainbow color scheme like the Apple logo did.
- jacquesm 6y agoApricot did quite well.
- fattybob 6y agoI remember Pear and to be honest, at the time, in The northern UK and with merchandising practices then, it was a little difficult to know whether to not it was actually a new Apple computer or not.... I was only browsing, but I do recall it appearing very much to be marketed beside Apples as another of the same....
- atlgator 6y agoAll your fruit are belong to Apple.
- schappim 6y agoThis is wrong. It is hard to fight a legal case against an opponent with infinite money. Perhaps courts should impose spending caps similarly to some sports leagues.
- nickff 6y ago> It is hard to fight a legal case against an opponent with infinite money. This also applies to criminal cases filed by government lawyers, who file many more lawsuits, with far harsher results than Apple. If this lawsuit is problematic (and I would agree that it is), government prosecutions are much worse.
- mathieuh 6y agoIsn't it expected that the government is acting in society's interest though? Whether or not that is the case in reality, bringing up the fact that the government has greater resources than citizens like this feels like it's missing the point, and that the actual problem is in how the government is deciding what cases to prosecute.
- sebmellen 6y agoIt is a problem. The defendant's right to counsel should be the right to counsel that is, at least in theory, equipped with the same tools as the prosecutor. When there are huge power disparities, governments become mobs. See: Aaron Swartz.
- nickff 6y agoThere are always huge disparities; a large number (possibly a majority) of people prosecuted by the government are driven to bankrupcy, regardless of the outcome.
- the8472 6y agoIf the government can afford a crime lab, expert witnesses and a team of prosecutors then why not the equal amount for public defense? Then they can do a cost-benefit analysis whether it's really worth to indict someone even though they have to pay for their defense. It's essentially the problem of only optimizing to keep false negatives low but ignoring false positives.
- dqpb 6y agoApple employees must be so proud.
- errantspark 6y agoHAH, imagine a FAANG employee experiencing personal responsibility! "I only work on infrastructure. I have no control over this. I just want to do my job."
- Simulacra 6y agoI always wondered if Apple employees embodied the same cold outlook on the world as Steve and Tim. Except for Bob Mansfield, the entire management team seems to have that cold force about them..
- xparco 6y agoAll the people here support Apples evil ways, disgusting
- ummonk 6y agoI doubt they intend to actually succeed but are just making sure to set down that they’re protecting their trademark So a company doesn’t start with one fruit branded trademark and then expand into more fruits before expanding into an Apple trademark to complete the set. This is a consequence of the “use it or lose it” trademark system.
- jpalomaki 6y agoThis is likely the reason. Not going after these kind of cases can it harder for them to defend against more clear violations.
- bww 6y agoIs there really a plausible world in which Apple, the world's most valuable company and one of it's most recognizable brands, might be determined by a court to have neglected to affirmatively defend its ubiquitous trademarks merely by failing to persecute a tiny company with a significantly different but also fruit-themed brand?
- squarefoot 6y agoFor what it's worth, back in the day Acorn Computers had an acorn as logo and manufactured both computers and their own RiscOS Operating System, and their name was chosen with the intended purpose of appearing before Apple Computers in a phonebook. I don't recall of any lawsuits from Apple; probably because back then that would have been painful for them as well. It's easy to bully others when one expects no retaliation.
- kens 6y agoFor some history, Acorn Computers (among other things) designed the Acorn RISC Machine processor or ARM for use in their personal computers. This is the forerunner of the ARM processor used in almost every phone today.
- timthorn 6y agoBack in those days, computer companies named after fruit or flowers were common. Apricot, Tulip, Tangerine, etc...
- dvt 6y agoI know it's popular to hate on big tech here on HN, but I'm willing to bet there's more going on here. There's literally dozens of companies with fruit logos on the Apple Store: pineapples, bananas, lemons, and many more. Either this is a PR stunt or there's more at play.
- boudin 6y agoOr fruits are just a really common things in the world...
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- NextHendrix 6y agoThe point was that Apple didn't go after the others
- ummonk 6y agoProbably none of those apps filed to register their trademark though.
- supergirl 6y agobecause they didn't apply for trademark. judging from this thread, apple seems to have a company monitoring fruit trademark applications all over the world (example cases in germany, poland)
- kxrm 6y agoNope this is actually very common when a trademark is filed that even hints at a large company's trademark. Apple has been very busy fighting any fruit logos. [1] [1] https://ttabvue.uspto.gov/ttabvue/v?pnam=Apple%20Inc.%20%20 https://ttabvue.uspto.gov/ttabvue/v?pnam=Apple%20Inc.%20%20
- ummonk 6y agoThey objected to Appleton Area School District lol. Wonder if it's even an automated system.
- mortenjorck 6y agoSince, unlike copyright law or patent law, trademark law is the one that does require plaintiffs to actively defend their mark or risk losing protection, there's always a bit of a gray area where two marks may not look terribly similar, but one can reasonably justify taking action. This instance, however, falls far outside that area.
- foepys 6y agoApple is experienced in bullying small businesses outside of their industry [1]. They sued a cafe because of its name "Apfelkind" (apple child) and its usage of an apple in their logo. Luckily Apple lost that case. 1: https://dw.com/en/german-café-owner-takes-on-apple-and-wins/a-17138587 https://dw.com/en/german-café-owner-takes-on-apple-and-wins/...
- supergirl 6y agoactually, the article says apple didn't lose but withdrew, for now: "Since an official judgment was never passed, however, Apple retains the legal right to renew its infringement appeal."
- namibj 6y agoAlso, the reason she didn't settle was Apple insisting on NDA-ing the settlement. Which is, incidentally, a huge issue in the US.
- mindfulhack 6y agoImagine what it must feel like to be Apple legal counsel. Just going around searching for businesses that have nothing to do with Apple that you can capitalistically bully out of existence. It would have to feel like you have no compassion or empathy in your body whatsoever. Tim Cook directs these people.
- globular-toast 6y agoIt probably feels good. They are well paid and have no heart.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- newacct583 6y agoThere's a deep irony here, given that the literal genesis of the company's trademark is in their victory over another, much larger "Apple" in a different industry: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Corps_v_Apple_Computer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Corps_v_Apple_Computer (tl;dr: Apple Corps sued Apple and settled, with Apple promising not to enter the music business under the Apple brand. Then Apple entered the music business in a big way a few decades later, Corps sued again, and lost.)
- gjvc 6y agoTim Cook's Apple, same as the old.
- cm2187 6y agoStanley Kubrick would name its homicidal computer ZOOKD today...
- Yetanfou 6y agoNah, Apple might be rich but they're not dominant like IBM was back in the day. More likely he'd call it one of these: hpphmf iqqing jrrjoh ksskpi lttlqj muumrk nvvnsl owwotm pxxpun qyyqvo rzzrwp saasxq tbbtyr uccuzs vddvat weewbu xffxcv yggydw zhhzex aiiafy bjjbgz ckkcha dlldib emmejc fnnfkd weewbu sounds catchy, a bit like [W]eibo. lttlqj - little QJ, would work. Otherwise iqqing.
- monadic2 6y agoHow is the logo not a clear parody? Edit: I see, they just sit on you until you change it because they can afford to buy out the courts.
- daffy 6y agoIn what other countries than America would this sort of thing work? (Not a rhetorical question.)
- Aldipower 6y agoGermany and tam tam tam Apfelkind won! https://www.dw.com/en/german-caf%C3%A9-owner-takes-on-apple-and-wins/a-17138587 https://www.dw.com/en/german-caf%C3%A9-owner-takes-on-apple-... Ok, you're right, it didn't worked, but Apple tried.
- daffy 6y agoSeems that in Germany too Apple was able to make the decision to resist quite risky. So maybe the question should be: is there any country where the target would be better protected and wouldn't have to risk so much to resist?
- wwwwwwwww 6y ago"...that without the media attention, Apple might have behaved differently." This seems to be the important bit.
- oscargrouch 6y agoI also wonder how much of this there's a lot to do with a rot system where you have too much lawyers and giving they need to make money as anyone else, the judicial system have loopholes that can gamed, turning into this game that leads nowhere but keep going because its cash cow to so many people (I mean, how is this different from how mobs opperate in the underworld). Later when the whole thing is rot beyiond control theres no way you can fight the system anymore, even if you are powerful and have the inclination to do it.. I pity real lawyers (the ones that have integrity and do it also because its their passion)
- kevin_thibedeau 6y agoSosumi
- zoomablemind 6y agoThis reminds me an episode of Arthur cartoon. In it, a laptop sported by one of characters had a pear logo with obvious connotation. Another meme from Arthur that comes to mind is a store named "One Percent". I bet lots of details like this escape the target audience's attention... at least in this pre-schooler's case.
- ModernMech 6y agoAlso: https://icarly.fandom.com/wiki/Pear_Company https://icarly.fandom.com/wiki/Pear_Company
- warpech 6y agoApple once sued a small Polish online grocer "a.pl" [0] They lost. [0] https://www.pcworld.com/article/262202/apple_vs_a_pl_tech_company_sues_online_polish_grocer_over_logo.html https://www.pcworld.com/article/262202/apple_vs_a_pl_tech_co...
- uoylj 6y agoSeems like an overreach to sue a company that actually sells apples
- cutemonster 6y agoWho does "they"refer to? (Anywhere where I can read about the outcome? The article doesn't seem to mention)
- michelb 6y agoSuppose Apple loses. Will they then start messing with the app approval process for this company out of spite?
- wayneftw 6y agoFuck these websites that hijack your browser history when you scroll down. Can we ban links to sites that do this?
- zepto 6y agoIs there any evidence that this is actually true? I see none at all presented - not even a quote or statement from a cease and desist. It seems implausible that Apple could win this, and implausible that they’d even see reason to take action. Perhaps they haven’t.
- gundmc 6y agoYes. Here is their trademark notice of opposition. It's as ridiculous as it sounds. https://www.scribd.com/document/471822364/Apple-s-Notice-of-Opposition-v-Super-Healthy-Kids-Inc https://www.scribd.com/document/471822364/Apple-s-Notice-of-...
- Simulacra 6y agoImagine if Apple records had sued Steve and Woz, we wouldn't have Apple Computers today. This is just wrong on so many levels.
- ummonk 6y agoAre you being sarcastic?
- perl4ever 6y agoImagine...it's easy if you try. Also, imagine if Carl Sagan had sued Apple.
- acomjean 6y agoApple computer and Apple records are in two different industries. It wasn’t till Apple opened a music store online “iTunes” that Apple records sued (again) and got a settlement. Apple seems to think people will confuse fruit types and they make some claim about “apple health” Because a lot of orchards use logos that look a lot like apples (and you know an Apple a day...)
- perl4ever 6y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sosumi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sosumi
- sassypotato 6y agoI never understood when Americans threaten people with court expenses in TV series or real life. I was under the impression that no matter the case, if you are unable to afford representation, a state lawyer is appointed and does a barely passing job. Wouldn't a barely passing job be enough for a judge to throw a case like this away? I've actually been in court and it has never been an expensive experience. I suppose from one comment I read that patent law is different, and you have to actively defend your patent, but I see this theme in many different types of cases; for instance someone starting directing a documentary about something someone didn't like attention drawn to. How can this possibly be expensive to defend.
- megablast 6y agoYou are kidding right? You are guaranteed representation for a criminal trial. Not a civil trial. How could that ever work??
- bawolff 6y agoI dont see why it couldnt work. You could say that plaintiff has to pay for a crap lawyer for other side (there are complicated consequences, makes it harder for the little guy to access the legal system, etc). Or you could say the state has to provide one always (if the state pays for my doctor [i am not an american] than its in theory possible for them to do this. Whether or not they should is a different question.
- MattGaiser 6y agoProbably similar to how it works in criminal trials. There would be a public defender office for handling the civil cases of those without means. Not saying that it should be done, but implementing it seems straightforward.
- throwaway2048 6y agoIn Germany, their rough equivalent of a Civil trial guarantees representation for the sued in most cases.
- bawolff 6y ago
- breue 6y agoI actually had something somewhat similar happen to me, but with Twitter. https://breue.com/twitter https://breue.com/twitter https://breue.com/86851616.pdf https://breue.com/86851616.pdf I was working on a project called Scoper, which let you do video streaming. It had done fairly well at SXSW, and we had a decent amount of users. Just before we thought we were gonna be awarded a trademark for the name, we got a not so friendly letter from Twitter's counsel at Fenwick and West, telling us we were infringing on their "Periscope" brand, and listing some pretty clear demands. We never really thought of our app as a competitor to Periscope. Our lawyer let us know that they had no strong grounds against us, but would drain us in a legal battle we could never afford. We told Twitter we knew they had weak grounds and that the case would just drag on, and we would rather save both sides money, if they would just buy us out. They gave us a super low amount of money to drop the trademark application, transfer the domain, all brand related stuff, and remove our app from the App Store. It was kinda depressing, but it could have been a worse outcome. To be fair, this wasn't outrageous like this pear logo case, but it was just a feeling of being bullied and knowing you don't stand a chance.
- lostlogin 6y agoLike the story here, your one is a story that needs broadcasting widely. It sounds like you took the pragmatic approach but that had to hurt a lot.
- pier25 6y ago> but would drain us in a legal battle we could never afford Can someone explain how does that work?
- quercusa 6y agoTwitter has lots of money to spend on lawyers; he didn't. (The US does not have a 'loser pays' legal system.)
- steego 6y agoWe get that. He’s asking for someone to explain how the legal system allows a big business to force a smaller business to spend money on legal fees. Also, how do other countries protect the little guy from frivolous lawsuits?
- Wistar 6y agoI'd like to see the actual complaint. I traced this mark application through its two year application and approval process and PrePear had its application suspended once for possible confusion with a Hong Kong based app company called Pear Technology Limited but nothing from Apple.
- tus88 6y agoThat is one rotten apple.
- makach 6y agoRaspberry PI
- Animats 6y agoApple at one time had a trademark problem with some '60s band. That one was settled.
- dredmorbius 6y agoWith an explicit agreement to not participate in music business.
- CosmicShadow 6y agoBored, overinflated legal team reaching for anything to do to make themselves feel important. Similar to how UX teams need to redesign everything, including the logo, every few years, even though everything works perfectly and is easy to understand. How do I justify my existence and my job?
- bitL 6y agoAnd then we end up with flat design and as it is the smallest amount of work, it's where the design gets stuck forever.
- birdyrooster 6y agoAnyone remember PearPC, the PPC emulator for x86? I wonder how that runs on a modern Intel cpu.
- newbie578 6y agoLol, I guess fruits are banned in the tech world until further notice, unless you are part of a team inside Apple. The U.S. needs to implement the judical system like in Europe, where the loser pays all the legal fees. In the EU, you have literally examples of persons who single handedly took their own country to court all the way to the Strasbourg.
- edko 6y agoThe loser should pay all legal fees, but they should also be capped to something reasonable.
- unclewalter 6y agoPerhaps Apple has hired topologists as their legal counsel?
- Simulacra 6y agoReminds me of Monster Cables going after Monster Miniature Golf; haven't bought a Monster cable since.
- crazygringo 6y agoI'm genuinely curious as to why Apple is doing this, from a business perspective. I'm well aware that companies need to defend their trademarks legally, or risk losing them, so in most cases like this the company is just following the law. But it always relies on a certain level of consumer confusion, e.g. that some demonstrable percent of consumers see the logo/name and genuinely assume it to be associated with the opposing company. But "Pear" has zero confusion with "Apple", and the logo is likewise completely different. Companies generally do their best to NOT pay their lawyers to do frivolous things, because there are more important things to be paying their lawyers to do, and companies aren't charities. So since Apple has no legal necessity to go after Pear here in order to protect their trademark, and they clearly have no business interest in harming a meal planning app since Apple's not in that business... ...what gives? Why is Apple spending money on this? Apple's a business. What's the business incentive?
- kxrm 6y agoSo it is a requirement that when you have a trademark, you must defend that mark. Oftentimes they contract a law firm specifically to monitor the trademark. If anything even hints at their mark, they file opposition. Filing opposition is cheap and easy. How far they go from there depends on how strong their mark is and how strong they feel they have a case to successfully oppose you. It costs very little to initiate an opposition just a little bit of time and $500. Many trademark filers drop the trademark at this first stage.
- mindfulhack 6y agoSurely there are provisions in or affecting such trademark law such that you cannot overstep bounds of reasonableness, e.g. by going after anything with the colour red just because yours is also red? (IANAL)
- leeuw01 6y agoT-Mobile is known for sueing companies who have a magenta/pink logo. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2014/02/10/court-says-t-mobile-owns-the-color-magenta/%3FoutputType%3Damp&ved=2ahUKEwiP-5Pv5I3rAhWB_KQKHXfsB8QQFjAGegQICRAB&usg=AOvVaw2BCEe66Wdws1Ij45PzXcl2&cf=1 https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https:/...
- kirillzubovsky 6y agoReminds me of that time when Caterpillar was suing a coffee shop for the word "cat". (original story: https://smashnotes.com/p/cat-cloud-podcast/e/being-sued-by-caterpillar-inc https://smashnotes.com/p/cat-cloud-podcast/e/being-sued-by-c...). I can understand why big companies do it, they want to protect their brand and make sure they are the only ones who are associated with any words remotely close. As a business, it makes sense. But then again, for the rest of us, it's really weird that one company want to own a fruit, and another a house animal. Could it be that trademark system, when establish, simply did not see this coming? What's a good solution, from a legal perspective, something that gives companies a way to defend their brand, but within "reasonable" powers, where simply gobbling all words in the space is probably no longer reasonable?
- dariosalvi78 6y agoit's not understandable, it' bullying and it's a threat to every business and it just reinforces the domination of those big brands.
- eruci 6y agoI'm the only fruit around here!
- bitL 6y agoNext: Apple removes Prepear from AppStore and bans developer accounts.
- DiogenesKynikos 6y agoDoes Apple own all the fruit? If yes, can I use a tomato as my company's logo?
- FrontendorTeam 6y agohahaha i loved your comment. really unbelievable shits.
- jimnotgym 6y agoI don't think they are similar. It is like comparing apples with oranges.
- faangFar 6y agoWhen you buy Apple products you promote their behavior. I consider it similar to buying BP gas.
- mckirk 6y agoShouldn't Libertarians be outraged by this kind of thing? No better way to screw up competition than to make it impossible to win against a much larger company in court...
- FrontendorTeam 6y agothat's so sad :(
- Havoc 6y agoThey don't even look remotely similar and aren't in same industry. WTF
- samirillian 6y agoBill Burr has a bit where he talks about Steve Jobs eating "some kind of pretentious fruit, like a pear." Life imitating art I guess.
- jasonjayr 6y agoHa.. fiction becomes real. In the iCarly/Victorious/et al (Dan Schnider) universes the kids all use PearPads, and all the technology they use is Pear branded as an obvious Apple reference...
- m463 6y agoWhat's really interesting is how quietly apple tiptoed around the "the pod" by line 6 - a music device which existed before the ipod.
- frankzen 6y agoIsn't that like comparing apples to pears?
- iJohnDoe 6y agoHow long until Apple kicks them off the App Store? Hey Tim, try to remember what you said at the hearing. Also, there isn’t much leadership when you allow the company lawyers to bully small developers. Doesn’t really seem like you’re in control of the ship.
- SOMA_BOFH 6y agoSad, considering their history with Apple Corps, but not surprising. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Corps_v_Apple_Computer https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Corps_v_Apple_Computer > The suit was settled in 1981 with an undisclosed amount being paid to Apple Corps. This amount was later revealed to be $80,000. As a condition of the settlement, Apple Computer agreed not to enter the music business
- Andrew_nenakhov 6y agoIt seems that Apple has breached the agreement not to enter the music business.
- sjwright 6y agoIn 1991, the two Apples signed an agreement dividing up use of the trademark. In short, this 1991 agreement allowed Apple Computer to do pretty much everything other than sell physical copies of music. While Apple Corps sued in 2003, the Judge ruled solidly in Apple Computer's favour. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Corps_v_Apple_Computer#1991 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Corps_v_Apple_Computer#1...
- dariosalvi78 6y agoIn other words, if I sell apples (or pears for what we know), I can't register my name with the actual product in it (which is a common word and a product of nature) or a big, fat bully will just destroy my business like an angry child. What can I say, great company and great system too.
- pbhjpbhj 6y agoYou can register it, and there's no problem vs Apple Computers trademark. The issue is that there's insufficient downside for Apple to prevent frivolous abuses. Arguably they sue small businesses to create an environment in which you're afraid to do anything close to Apple's actual IP; small businesses are probably just collateral to them.
- fastball 6y agoDirect link[1] to the change.org petition. [1] http://chng.it/Zw7QxgwGCS http://chng.it/Zw7QxgwGCS
- nabla9 6y agoFailure to police can weaken trademark. For famous trademarks (like Apple) there is additional legal concept called "trademark dilution" where trademark owner can forbid use of the trademark in unrelated products and services. Big brands take even the weakest cases just to be sure. For example, if you want to start robotics company with 'droid' in the name, you get letter from Disney lawyers.
- moomin 6y agoAlways pretty rich when Apple goes after a firm for copyright infringement on a logo having spent 29 years in dispute with Apple Corps over the exact same matter.
- jyriand 6y agoThere should be a"Kickstarter" type of platform where small companies can form a ring of defense against big bullies. In case of some absurd legal action everyone can contribute to help with the legal fees etc.
- dennis_jeeves 6y agoNow there's a good idea.
- indymike 6y agoIts called liability insurance. It is very inexpensive and can be a great equalizer.
- dennis_jeeves 6y agoSo, what you are saying that all these little firms did not have liability insurance? I'm assuming that the said liability insurance that you are talking about comes with, not too many fine prints and will cover thing like lost business revenue etc.?
- Gustomaximus 6y agoI wonder if this could be a good business move by PrePear or future companies. They could turn this into a David/Goliath battle and get some huge social media awareness for their business and goodwill via doing the 'right thing' and standing up to the bully with some well prepared posts and updates. That at least to me attracts my sense of justice and would steer me to giving a companies services a chance where relevant. Even if they capitulate after expenses start to grow, it could be a solid marketing strategy to at least attend the first hearing. So, maybe doing a fruit logo for your next startup isn't such a bad idea.
- jondubois 6y agoIf the law keeps harming the majority of people, society will devolve into anarchy. If the law starts to not make sense, judges will allow themselves more room for interpretation and this will be the ideal environment for mafias and factions. This will not be good for corporations - Without rigid laws backed by sensible moral grounds, corporations will split up and be devoured from the inside.
- MaysonL 6y agoNote how they have ignored the Raspberry bleeping Pi.
- LockAndLol 6y agoThis comment section is sure to be filled with people who funded Apple by buying one of their products. If you read the article, think what Apple's doing is wrong and still continue to buy their products, well buddy you're part of the problem.
- praelud 6y agoThe future is a few multi-trillion companies period. This can be good/bad depending on how you view capitalism.
- arendtio 6y agoI wonder why Apple doesn't have a problem with the Orange company. Maybe Apple is just afraid of fighting someone within their own weight class...
- retpirato 6y agoTHIS is why I hate Apple. This company has nothin to do with Apple, so they have no reason. This isn't the first time they've done something like that either.
- kazinator 6y agoThese people are complete fools to waste thousands of dollars and have to lay someone off. In the same predicament, I would not spend a penny at all on the harassment. I would not respond to it at all. However, I would create a web page divulging every piece of communication I received, and/or forward everything to any media outlet willing to listen. It's very difficult to get actual money out of someone who doesn't want to pay, or get them to change their behavior (like stop using a certain logo). The lawyers are just hoping people will get scared of a bunch of words in a threatening letter.
- retpirato 6y agoThere's a certain OS designed to look like Mac OS, which uses a pear as their logo. Obviously I'm not going to name them. I don't want to give Apple any ideas. It seems like any company with a fruit logo is in danger of a lawsuit anyway. If you give them an inch they'll take a mile.
- ellsthrow 6y agoTbf, they do have the exact same leaf shape. Shame on them.