6 ms·

Meteoric rise in xenophobia? What are you talking about?

by bzb4 6y ago

brink 6y ago
Xenophobia is mistreatment of the foreigner.
- loulou24 6y ago
  Restricting travel is not mistreatment.
  - seanmcdirmid 6y ago
    No, being refused service at a restaurant even though you never left the country you are residing in is xenophobia.
    - bzb4 6y ago
      And now it's when you link an article with three embedded tweets of people who say that's happened to them?
      - zekrioca 6y ago
        It is happening
        wolco 6y ago
        Great. We just need two more people for the article.
      - seanmcdirmid 6y ago
        It happened to people I know. That’s good enough for me. I still have lots of friends back in Beijing (Chinese, LHFs, and expats). It just isn’t a fun time to be a foreigner in China.
quicklime 6y ago
To give one example, there's a clear and measurable increase in hate crimes against Asians at the moment.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- alanaut24 6y ago
  Do you have resources? Your comment is reckless and alarmist.
  - quicklime 6y ago
    You're joking, right? edit: in case you aren't: US: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/2120-anti-asian-hate-incidents-reported-in-us-during-pandemic/ar-BB16gCxq https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/2120-anti-asian-hate-incid... UK: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/13/anti-asian-hate-crimes-up-21-in-uk-during-coronavirus-crisis https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/13/anti-asian-hat... Australia: https://www.sbs.com.au/news/victoria-urged-to-toughen-hate-crime-laws-as-anti-asian-attacks-rise https://www.sbs.com.au/news/victoria-urged-to-toughen-hate-c...
    - abc-xyz 6y ago
      Meanwhile in a China, foreigners (white/black people) are being kicked out of their homes and forced to sleep on the street, restaurants (including a McDonald’s) are refusing to serve foreign customers, foreigners are refused entry to malls, foreigners are unable to access important government-issued apps, etc. Asians aren’t the only ones affected.
      - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
        The original comment did say it was only one example. But I'm a bit concerned about the tone of this response - we strive to prevent discrimination just because discrimination is bad, not as some kind of reciprocal favor to the Chinese government.
hourislate 6y ago
Just visit Canada from the USA. Canadians think that Americans are dying in the streets from Covid-19. They're calling the police on anyone with US license plates, harassing people from the USA, etc. The News is running articles that Canadians are fed up with Americans, etc, https://www.rawstory.com/2020/08/canadians-fed-up-with-unwanted-american-border-crossers-who-think-the-is-a-farce-report/ https://www.rawstory.com/2020/08/canadians-fed-up-with-unwan... It's like they don't understand that things are in control and there are well over 325 million people in the US that are not infected/sick/Covid-19 Free. I'm an expat in Texas and I can't even begin to tell you the kind of phones calls I've received from friends and family about Covid 19 in Texas. I can't blame them, the hysteria created from the media is driving this insanity of fear.
- TheAdamAndChe 6y ago
  People may not be dying in the streets and most hospitals are not overloaded, but things are definitely not under control in the US. Cases have been rising pretty dramatically in many states in the last few weeks.
- javagram 6y ago
  > It's like they don't understand that things are in control There are about 70,000 detected cases a day... it’s certainly the case that widespread US tourism in Canada by people who haven’t been tested or gone through a 14-day quarantine could result in a significant amount of virus being spread. Various US states have these restrictions on travel from other states as well, e.g. Hawaii and Maine. Massachusetts is currently requiring out of state travelers from about 40 states to get tested or quarantine for 14 days after arriving. So this is nothing to do with xenophobia. Simply governments trying to protect their citizens from a virus which kills between 0.25-0.75% of those who are infected.
  - ddingus 6y ago
    When death rates are measured based on outcomes, as in one either recovers, or is dead, the risk is 3 to 7 percent depending on where you are in the world. (Dead people)/(recovered people) = (death rate) Doing the math based on infection ignores the fact that many cases are in progress, outcome unknown. This makes for much smaller numbers, and a less realistic risk perception based on lack of data for the scope of risk being evaluated. Flat out, we do not yet know whether active cases will turn bad. This also means death rates can and will change over time too. By tracking outcomes we can understand the impact of science and policy, as well as mother nature and how the virus itself continues to mutate. Further, there is a secondary risk of ongoing, potentially chronic, complications. People may recover, but are changed significantly. Data on that is harder to boil down. My own outcome is profound fatigue. It is significant and appears very slow to improve. Being sick was no joke. Being more tired for months on end now isn't either. And I am fortunate, due to fatigue being among the more mild of the potential bad outcomes we know about today. Surviving the virus does not always mean returning to normal. Those governments acting to prevent harm are on stronger ground than many may be aware of. The health care system costs will be serious and endure for a long time, even by measures of what governments consider a long time. In the US, that will be acute, due to our current policy. Other nations are well justified in many of their policies for this reason alone. Health care impact translates into increased death rates from other causes. Flatten the curve is about that as much as it is being able to manage the death rate direct from COVID down. Right now, death is understated and poor health outcomes more seriously missing from the policy discussion, as are the timelines and potential costs, efficacy of our potential remedies. This mess is here with us for a long time. A poorly managed, non global discussion only makes it all worse across the board, risks, costs, quality of life, etc. It is time to realize COVID is more likely to transition to endemic than we are to return to life and business as it was last year. That will be true for humans on this planet period.
stordoff 6y ago
> The Metropolitan Police recorded 166 verbal, online and physical attacks in February and March where the officer reported the ethnic appearance of the victim as "Oriental", up from 66 during the same period last year [...] According to the Met, hate crimes jumped from 20 in January to 65 in February and 101 in March. https://www.ft.com/content/52e7062b-0cb2-448a-b944-05b3025d4542 https://www.ft.com/content/52e7062b-0cb2-448a-b944-05b3025d4...

Meteoric rise in xenophobia? What are you talking about?

by bzb4 6y ago

Meteoric rise in xenophobia? What are you talking about?

brink 6y ago

Xenophobia is mistreatment of the foreigner.

loulou24 6y ago
Restricting travel is not mistreatment.
- seanmcdirmid 6y ago
  No, being refused service at a restaurant even though you never left the country you are residing in is xenophobia.
  - bzb4 6y ago
    And now it's when you link an article with three embedded tweets of people who say that's happened to them?
    - zekrioca 6y ago
      It is happening
      - wolco 6y ago
        Great. We just need two more people for the article.
    - seanmcdirmid 6y ago
      It happened to people I know. That’s good enough for me. I still have lots of friends back in Beijing (Chinese, LHFs, and expats). It just isn’t a fun time to be a foreigner in China.

quicklime 6y ago

To give one example, there's a clear and measurable increase in hate crimes against Asians at the moment.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
alanaut24 6y ago
Do you have resources? Your comment is reckless and alarmist.
- quicklime 6y ago
  You're joking, right? edit: in case you aren't: US: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/2120-anti-asian-hate-incidents-reported-in-us-during-pandemic/ar-BB16gCxq https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/2120-anti-asian-hate-incid... UK: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/13/anti-asian-hate-crimes-up-21-in-uk-during-coronavirus-crisis https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/13/anti-asian-hat... Australia: https://www.sbs.com.au/news/victoria-urged-to-toughen-hate-crime-laws-as-anti-asian-attacks-rise https://www.sbs.com.au/news/victoria-urged-to-toughen-hate-c...
  - abc-xyz 6y ago
    Meanwhile in a China, foreigners (white/black people) are being kicked out of their homes and forced to sleep on the street, restaurants (including a McDonald’s) are refusing to serve foreign customers, foreigners are refused entry to malls, foreigners are unable to access important government-issued apps, etc. Asians aren’t the only ones affected.
    - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
      The original comment did say it was only one example. But I'm a bit concerned about the tone of this response - we strive to prevent discrimination just because discrimination is bad, not as some kind of reciprocal favor to the Chinese government.

hourislate 6y ago

Just visit Canada from the USA. Canadians think that Americans are dying in the streets from Covid-19. They're calling the police on anyone with US license plates, harassing people from the USA, etc. The News is running articles that Canadians are fed up with Americans, etc, https://www.rawstory.com/2020/08/canadians-fed-up-with-unwanted-american-border-crossers-who-think-the-is-a-farce-report/ https://www.rawstory.com/2020/08/canadians-fed-up-with-unwan... It's like they don't understand that things are in control and there are well over 325 million people in the US that are not infected/sick/Covid-19 Free. I'm an expat in Texas and I can't even begin to tell you the kind of phones calls I've received from friends and family about Covid 19 in Texas. I can't blame them, the hysteria created from the media is driving this insanity of fear.

TheAdamAndChe 6y ago
People may not be dying in the streets and most hospitals are not overloaded, but things are definitely not under control in the US. Cases have been rising pretty dramatically in many states in the last few weeks.
javagram 6y ago
> It's like they don't understand that things are in control There are about 70,000 detected cases a day... it’s certainly the case that widespread US tourism in Canada by people who haven’t been tested or gone through a 14-day quarantine could result in a significant amount of virus being spread. Various US states have these restrictions on travel from other states as well, e.g. Hawaii and Maine. Massachusetts is currently requiring out of state travelers from about 40 states to get tested or quarantine for 14 days after arriving. So this is nothing to do with xenophobia. Simply governments trying to protect their citizens from a virus which kills between 0.25-0.75% of those who are infected.
- ddingus 6y ago
  When death rates are measured based on outcomes, as in one either recovers, or is dead, the risk is 3 to 7 percent depending on where you are in the world. (Dead people)/(recovered people) = (death rate) Doing the math based on infection ignores the fact that many cases are in progress, outcome unknown. This makes for much smaller numbers, and a less realistic risk perception based on lack of data for the scope of risk being evaluated. Flat out, we do not yet know whether active cases will turn bad. This also means death rates can and will change over time too. By tracking outcomes we can understand the impact of science and policy, as well as mother nature and how the virus itself continues to mutate. Further, there is a secondary risk of ongoing, potentially chronic, complications. People may recover, but are changed significantly. Data on that is harder to boil down. My own outcome is profound fatigue. It is significant and appears very slow to improve. Being sick was no joke. Being more tired for months on end now isn't either. And I am fortunate, due to fatigue being among the more mild of the potential bad outcomes we know about today. Surviving the virus does not always mean returning to normal. Those governments acting to prevent harm are on stronger ground than many may be aware of. The health care system costs will be serious and endure for a long time, even by measures of what governments consider a long time. In the US, that will be acute, due to our current policy. Other nations are well justified in many of their policies for this reason alone. Health care impact translates into increased death rates from other causes. Flatten the curve is about that as much as it is being able to manage the death rate direct from COVID down. Right now, death is understated and poor health outcomes more seriously missing from the policy discussion, as are the timelines and potential costs, efficacy of our potential remedies. This mess is here with us for a long time. A poorly managed, non global discussion only makes it all worse across the board, risks, costs, quality of life, etc. It is time to realize COVID is more likely to transition to endemic than we are to return to life and business as it was last year. That will be true for humans on this planet period.

stordoff 6y ago

> The Metropolitan Police recorded 166 verbal, online and physical attacks in February and March where the officer reported the ethnic appearance of the victim as "Oriental", up from 66 during the same period last year [...] According to the Met, hate crimes jumped from 20 in January to 65 in February and 101 in March. https://www.ft.com/content/52e7062b-0cb2-448a-b944-05b3025d4542 https://www.ft.com/content/52e7062b-0cb2-448a-b944-05b3025d4...