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I get that. I can give up seeing the Louvre this summer. But my loved one is in another country and the last thing my heart needs is more lock-downs. We need t

• bzb4 6y ago
  Meteoric rise in xenophobia? What are you talking about?
  • brink 6y ago
    Xenophobia is mistreatment of the foreigner.
    • loulou24 6y ago
      Restricting travel is not mistreatment.
      • seanmcdirmid 6y ago
        No, being refused service at a restaurant even though you never left the country you are residing in is xenophobia.
        • bzb4 6y ago
          And now it's when you link an article with three embedded tweets of people who say that's happened to them?
          • zekrioca 6y ago
            It is happening
            • wolco 6y ago
              Great. We just need two more people for the article.
          • seanmcdirmid 6y ago
            It happened to people I know. That’s good enough for me. I still have lots of friends back in Beijing (Chinese, LHFs, and expats). It just isn’t a fun time to be a foreigner in China.
  • quicklime 6y ago
    To give one example, there's a clear and measurable increase in hate crimes against Asians at the moment.
    • deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    • alanaut24 6y ago
      Do you have resources? Your comment is reckless and alarmist.
      • quicklime 6y ago
        You're joking, right? edit: in case you aren't: US: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/2120-anti-asian-hate-incidents-reported-in-us-during-pandemic/ar-BB16gCxq https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/2120-anti-asian-hate-incid... UK: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/13/anti-asian-hate-crimes-up-21-in-uk-during-coronavirus-crisis https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/13/anti-asian-hat... Australia: https://www.sbs.com.au/news/victoria-urged-to-toughen-hate-crime-laws-as-anti-asian-attacks-rise https://www.sbs.com.au/news/victoria-urged-to-toughen-hate-c...
        • abc-xyz 6y ago
          Meanwhile in a China, foreigners (white/black people) are being kicked out of their homes and forced to sleep on the street, restaurants (including a McDonald’s) are refusing to serve foreign customers, foreigners are refused entry to malls, foreigners are unable to access important government-issued apps, etc. Asians aren’t the only ones affected.
          • SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
            The original comment did say it was only one example. But I'm a bit concerned about the tone of this response - we strive to prevent discrimination just because discrimination is bad, not as some kind of reciprocal favor to the Chinese government.
  • hourislate 6y ago
    Just visit Canada from the USA. Canadians think that Americans are dying in the streets from Covid-19. They're calling the police on anyone with US license plates, harassing people from the USA, etc. The News is running articles that Canadians are fed up with Americans, etc, https://www.rawstory.com/2020/08/canadians-fed-up-with-unwanted-american-border-crossers-who-think-the-is-a-farce-report/ https://www.rawstory.com/2020/08/canadians-fed-up-with-unwan... It's like they don't understand that things are in control and there are well over 325 million people in the US that are not infected/sick/Covid-19 Free. I'm an expat in Texas and I can't even begin to tell you the kind of phones calls I've received from friends and family about Covid 19 in Texas. I can't blame them, the hysteria created from the media is driving this insanity of fear.
    • TheAdamAndChe 6y ago
      People may not be dying in the streets and most hospitals are not overloaded, but things are definitely not under control in the US. Cases have been rising pretty dramatically in many states in the last few weeks.
    • javagram 6y ago
      > It's like they don't understand that things are in control There are about 70,000 detected cases a day... it’s certainly the case that widespread US tourism in Canada by people who haven’t been tested or gone through a 14-day quarantine could result in a significant amount of virus being spread. Various US states have these restrictions on travel from other states as well, e.g. Hawaii and Maine. Massachusetts is currently requiring out of state travelers from about 40 states to get tested or quarantine for 14 days after arriving. So this is nothing to do with xenophobia. Simply governments trying to protect their citizens from a virus which kills between 0.25-0.75% of those who are infected.
      • ddingus 6y ago
        When death rates are measured based on outcomes, as in one either recovers, or is dead, the risk is 3 to 7 percent depending on where you are in the world. (Dead people)/(recovered people) = (death rate) Doing the math based on infection ignores the fact that many cases are in progress, outcome unknown. This makes for much smaller numbers, and a less realistic risk perception based on lack of data for the scope of risk being evaluated. Flat out, we do not yet know whether active cases will turn bad. This also means death rates can and will change over time too. By tracking outcomes we can understand the impact of science and policy, as well as mother nature and how the virus itself continues to mutate. Further, there is a secondary risk of ongoing, potentially chronic, complications. People may recover, but are changed significantly. Data on that is harder to boil down. My own outcome is profound fatigue. It is significant and appears very slow to improve. Being sick was no joke. Being more tired for months on end now isn't either. And I am fortunate, due to fatigue being among the more mild of the potential bad outcomes we know about today. Surviving the virus does not always mean returning to normal. Those governments acting to prevent harm are on stronger ground than many may be aware of. The health care system costs will be serious and endure for a long time, even by measures of what governments consider a long time. In the US, that will be acute, due to our current policy. Other nations are well justified in many of their policies for this reason alone. Health care impact translates into increased death rates from other causes. Flatten the curve is about that as much as it is being able to manage the death rate direct from COVID down. Right now, death is understated and poor health outcomes more seriously missing from the policy discussion, as are the timelines and potential costs, efficacy of our potential remedies. This mess is here with us for a long time. A poorly managed, non global discussion only makes it all worse across the board, risks, costs, quality of life, etc. It is time to realize COVID is more likely to transition to endemic than we are to return to life and business as it was last year. That will be true for humans on this planet period.
  • stordoff 6y ago
    > The Metropolitan Police recorded 166 verbal, online and physical attacks in February and March where the officer reported the ethnic appearance of the victim as "Oriental", up from 66 during the same period last year [...] According to the Met, hate crimes jumped from 20 in January to 65 in February and 101 in March. https://www.ft.com/content/52e7062b-0cb2-448a-b944-05b3025d4542 https://www.ft.com/content/52e7062b-0cb2-448a-b944-05b3025d4...
• Tehnix 6y ago
  In Denmark, at least, as long as you live, work, or even if you are a relative to someone or a couple, you can get into the country. So there shouldn't be a problem in your case :) (it's basically meant to only limit tourism). Does Norway handle this differently?
  • brink 6y ago
    Oh I know very well about Denmark, they're a shining example of how it should be done. Unfortunately I and a lot of people are unaffiliated with Denmark.
  • culturestate 6y ago
    I’m not OP, but in a similar situation and our problem isn’t that we can’t get to each other, it’s the quarantine requirements on either side. What used to be a quick weekend trip now means 4 weeks of quarantine.
    • kingkawn 6y ago
      For better and for worse in this moment of crisis the nation state is the organizational model we’ve got.
  • lancebeet 6y ago
    Sweden certainly handled it differently, despite having far fewer restrictions than most other countries. Individuals who had received a residence permit from Swedish authorities were denied entry into the country due to coronavirus related restrictions.[1] [1] https://www.svt.se/nyheter/lokalt/stockholm/rajivs-fru-stoppades-pa-arlanda-tvingas-lamna-sverige-trots-uppehallstillstand https://www.svt.se/nyheter/lokalt/stockholm/rajivs-fru-stopp... (Swedish)
  • sjogress 6y ago
    I believe Norway has similar rules, i.e you should be able to travel here from anywhere as long as you have some kind of residency. As far as tourism is concerned, the government has divided European countries into two groups: traveling from "red" countries requires a mandatory quarantine upon entry, traveling from a "green" country does not mandate a quarantine. AFAIK all non-European countries are considered "red", meaning quarantine on entry.
• loulou24 6y ago
  As a bi-national away from my fragile parents, I'm glad governments take the situation seriously and don't get distracted anymore by the constant flow of accusations of "xenophobia" by the self-righteous self-proclaimed "anti-racist" mob.
  • anoncake 6y ago
    If governments took the situation seriously, they would prohibit travel within countries just as much as between them.
    • kwhitefoot 6y ago
      Some governments do exactly that where and when it is believed to be necessary. France, for instance, forbade people from travelling further than 100 km from home at one time.
      • loulou24 6y ago
        In fact, we implemented local travel restrictions before closing and monitoring national borders (because nashion and bordeuh is fasciiiism maaaan!!)
• culturestate 6y ago
  I’m in the same boat as you with the added wrinkle that we’re both expats, so we’re separated from each other and our families. It’s not the first time this has happened, but it’s the first time it’s been more or less legally mandated. One of my key takeaways from this experience is that I wish someone besides Facebook was making relatively inexpensive, easy-to-use home video portals that can follow you around a room.
  • mensetmanusman 6y ago
    What is this home video portal system on facebook?
    • culturestate 6y ago
      > What is this home video portal system on facebook? https://portal.facebook.com https://portal.facebook.com
• bromuro 6y ago
  Oh I’ve lost my partner as well. No idea when we will see us again.
• Jedd 6y ago
  I'm deeply sorry to hear your Paris holiday is delayed. I do not understand why you think that one specific demographic is being targeted here, as lockdowns typically affect every demographic <sic> within a region. My heart (and renal, neural, respiratory etc systems) all very much need some brutal lockdowns for a few solid weeks, followed by very careful and complete contact tracing with significant penalties for people who intentionally try to circumvent these measures. Perhaps you could mention where you and your loved one are.
• zvrba 6y ago
  This is extremely egoistic post. You, a single individual, can infect tens of persons, without even knowing it, who spread the disease further, and of whom someone will die. Is satisfying your heartache worth starting a chain of deaths? The more people feel like they're a special-case snowflakes who should be exempt from travelling restrictions, the longer this situation is going to last.
  • SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
    The situation is going to last a long time regardless of what people feel like. Countries that want to suppress the coronavirus will need to keep substantial travel restrictions in place for years, so it's time to think about what the shape of a sustainable policy is. "Nobody go anywhere cause the virus might spread" isn't going to work for that long.
  • anoncake 6y ago
    There's so much bullshit in this post. Even without any precautions, the average person would not nearly infect "tens of person". To actually cause the death of one, they would have to infect on average ~200 people. And the egoists here are those that want everyone to suffer just so they can avoid a miniscule chance of death. And the faster the virus spreads, the faster we are done with this bullshit.
    • gnusty_gnurc 6y ago
      Amen. The moral superiority is insane. Berate and strip them of any ounce of humanity, anyone who dares to even suggest that indefinite draconian measures are unsustainable or possibly ineffective.
  • arp242 6y ago
    I feel this is rather unempathic towards the previous poster. Human contact – affection and love in particular – are primary human needs, and they can't just be handwaved away. You may be reasonably comfortable in your situation (as much as this entire situation gets, anyway) but not everyone is so lucky. This is not "special-case snowflakes", just a recognition that people, their circumstances, and experiences greatly differ. I'd argue that almost everyone gets treated "special" at some points in their lives and rightfully so. Always treating everyone the same is deeply misguided as people are simply not the same (equality shouldn't mean "one size fits all for everyone"). Merely travelling wouldn't cause a "chain of deaths", when done with with appropriate precautions and care. That's an extremely wild and panicked exaggeration, and not based on what we know. Besides, I'm not entirely sure what you're exactly proposing to achieve with your "hard lockdown"; it's already well established that the virus is impossible to contain, and in many ways a "hard lockdown" will make it worse. There needs to be some balance.
• goatinaboat 6y ago
  But my loved one is in another country and the last thing my heart needs is more lock-downs. We need to consider what closed borders are doing to bi-national married / unmarried couples. They've been a largely ignored demographic during this pandemic and collateral damage due to the broad and sweeping policies that have taken place on the borders. Depression, stress and loneliness all have health consequences too. Whether that is separation from loved ones, or seeing the business that fed your family evaporating before your eyes. In the rush to protect ourselves from a disease with a 99.97% survival rate, that only tips people over the edge who had pre-existing morbid conditions, that most people won't even know that they've had, we have sown the seeds of something that will kill many more people.
  • iso1210 6y ago
    > from a disease with a 99.97% survival rate IFR seems in the >1% range, admitadly this is skewed towards older people. Maybe that IFR is overestimated slightly, but it's far far more deadly than 0.03% https://www.mrc-bsu.cam.ac.uk/now-casting/ https://www.mrc-bsu.cam.ac.uk/now-casting/
• odiroot 6y ago
  Welcome to the club. My partner is so far away, there's not even a direct flight connecting us (nor our countries in general) . I have to count on 3 countries agreeing on opening a path. Currently it's not even physically possible to take such flight (for any reasons). This all makes me sad.