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you shouldn't have to be mad or pushed beyond a certain emotional threshold to organize. organization shouldn't be a form of retaliation. this should always hav
by summitsummit 6y ago
you shouldn't have to be mad or pushed beyond a certain emotional threshold to organize. organization shouldn't be a form of retaliation. this should always have been the status quo.
- ralusek 6y agoPlease, no. I do not want software engineering to become unionized.
- smt88 6y agoWhy?
- reedf1 6y agoYou'll be the first to suggest it when a tech slump hits - and it will be too late.
- mrmonkeyman 6y agoNo, I'll do something else. This pedestrian shit is beneath me. I'm not some abused worker that needs to be sheltered by the forces of "good".
- namdnay 6y agoOr when they hit 50 and realize they can’t get a new job in 2 days anymore
- eru 6y agoWhat makes you think so?
- risyachka 6y agoIt would be really nice, especially in game dev industry where software engineers earn way less than web developers.
- garmaine 6y agoThis isn’t about game dev though.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- tyre 6y agoWhy not?
- Rebelgecko 6y agoWhy's that? I used to work at a place where engineers were unionized and there were some downsides, but I think it was overall a positive. Probably the best benefits of any place I've ever worked
- ironmagma 6y agoBeing unionized is like growing chest hair for an industry. The best ones always do it, and it’s better than you think it will be.
- ralusek 6y agoTo those asking why: Because the need for unions arises when there is a severe power imbalance between employer and employee. If I'm ever put in a position where I feel as though I am simply unable to negotiate a wage that is aligned with how I value my labor, and I feel as though this is through an exploitative advantage that the entire industry has over me, then I would start seeking other individuals in a similar situation in order to collectively gain leverage. I have not found that the software engineering industry remotely resembles this scenario, and that it is actually us engineers that hold most of the leverage advantage. So while I recognize that there is a potential value to unionizing, short of a need for it, you're just introducing a middle-man into the relationships you establish, and unions eventually begin to take on all sorts of self-serving interests of their own. Many industries have developed to the point that the power imbalance doesn't exist between the employer and the employee, but rather the competent individual and the union.
- jdc 6y agoEmployers will try to paint organization as a hostile maneuver to justify their own hostility toward workers who try it.
- garbagetime 6y agoThere's a solution to that: remove the employers. The end goal of organisation should be worker control.
- HideousKojima 6y agoBarring some non-compete stuff in their contracts, the workers are free to leave and start their own co-op
- mschuster91 6y agoThere is a difference between the legal possibility of doing so, and the practical possibility.
- HideousKojima 6y ago>There is a difference between the legal possibility of doing so, and the practical possibility. Yes, because the existing employer has actually created a lot of value by investing their capital in the business, because providing investment is actually incredibly valuable
- garbagetime 6y agoI hope you're right (although I know you're not): the easier it is, the better. What I'm suggesting isn't meant to be impossible. (of course, it would be easier just to turn an existing company into a co-op, but if co-op start-ups weren't at a massive systematic disadvantage, that would be great)
- eru 6y agoWhat HideousKojima was suggesting that you don't need to ban employers to make cooperatives possible.
- worldsayshi 6y agoHmm, I feel like unionisation have the potential to push up salaries a lot. But I suspect this can depend a lot on the power dynamic between employee and employer of the particular market. If the jobs can easily move abroad local unions are not as effective. So far it seems to me that software engineers already have a pretty good position on the market. Would it be improved through unionisation?
- aaomidi 6y agoSalaries aren't the only thing unions help with
- worldsayshi 6y agoSure I didn't intend to imply that.
- krasin 6y ago(edit: wrong Epic the company; oh well) Software engineers in the "regular" industry indeed are better off without unions. There's no obvious problem that unions would solve, and there are costs (unions in general add inefficiency). In gamedev, though, salaries are low and work/life balance is traditionally very poor. I can see why some Epic workers decided to consider unionizing.
- adjkant 6y agoThis is healthcare, not gamedev
- krasin 6y agoThanks!
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- worldsayshi 6y ago> Software engineers in the "regular" industry indeed are better off without unions. How do we know that?
- viraptor 6y agoIt is a form of retaliation though. People who are treated well don't often see the need to organise. I've never heard of a "let's organise now - everything's awesome and we're happy, but who knows about the future" push.
- gumby 6y agoIf everything is hunky dory there’s no need to put any energy into labor organization. And to be slightly cynical: if all is well, an organization designed to drive opposition is going to need something to complain about just to justify its existence. (The second point is often used by anti labor folks to claim that all unions are malign. I am Not one of those people — in fact I’m pro labor pro union. Just pointing out there’s a legit reason for a union not to have been formed)