12 ms·

Epic Systems workers are organizing

164 points by mgerdts 6y ago

tikthot 6y ago
Using VB is it's own form of abuse. Have they moved off of it yet
s9w 6y ago
This is about Epic Systems (healthcare software) and not about Epic Games.
- logicslave12 6y ago
  Funny that there’s two well known software companies that have disgruntled software developers. The title is believable for either
minimaxir 6y ago
Relevant thread from /r/cscareerquestions: https://reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/comments/i3n1cy/name_and_shame_epic_systems_for_unnecessarily/ https://reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/comments/i3n1cy/name_...
nthitz 6y ago
Epic is the area's largest tech employer and their employees are a boon to the region. Unfortunately the Company has and continues to treat their staff like expendable college grads
- cordite 6y ago
  This was my experience.
Animats 6y ago
Oh, not Epic Games.
Negitivefrags 6y ago
I know this is going to be unpopular, but I just want to think about this companies perspective to add a bit of balance to this thread. I know a lot of people on here feel like work from home is just as productive or even more so than working in the office, especially in the case of open office layouts, but it's just not universally true. Some people are really good with responsibility, and some people really are not. As an illustrative example, you might have 20% of workers working at 120% efficiency, 50% of workers working at 80% efficency, and 30% of workers working at 10% efficiency. This example comes out to about 67% productivity overall. But you are still paying 100% of the salaries. It would be nice if you could just tell the 30% who have terrible efficiency to come in while everyone else can work from home, but you can't. It immediately going to be seen as unfair. "Why does X get to work from home and I don't?!". Many people don't even have the self awareness to tell that they are terrible at working from home. Another option would paying people for the amount of work they are actually delivering. Yeah, that isn't going to happen. I mean, for a start, it's hard to even quantify most of the time. A good manager knows who is delivering and who isn't, but you can't exactly point to number of bugs closed, or lines of code checked in to prove it. And aside from anything else differing pay is a hard pill to swallow even without WFH involved. The guy earning 200k might be 4x as useful as the guy being paid 100k, or he may be no better or even worse! My point is that there is no really satisfactory option here. I mean, you can make the argument "It's a pandemic, they should be happy to pay the same amount for 67% of the work" and sure, maybe that's just the way the cookie crumbles. I mean, lots of people are being totally forced out of business due to this pandemic so it's better situation than those guys I guess? But you can at least understand that it's a sucky position to be in.
- dry_soup 6y ago
  Paying employees according to the true value of their labor is tempting at first, but you better be careful-- Apply the principle too consistently and the C-suite gets a huge pay cut.
  - eddyfromtheblok 6y ago
    yeah, imagine having to have to wear a suit all day, a horror that only a 8 figure salary can compensate for.
foogazi 6y ago
> It’s hard (actually, it’s impossible) to retain our culture when we’re working from our homes First it was sacrifice for the economy, now it’s for the company culture!
amir734jj 6y ago
I live in Wisconsin and I applied to work there twice after finishing bachelor's degree about 8 years ago. Both times I was rejected. I was thinking by working at Epic I would be solving real-world problem and helping humanity so I was excited. The way I was treated says a lot about their culture and how much they value their employees. They are a terrible company inside and outside.
- pmiller2 6y ago
  How were you treated?
  - amir734jj 6y ago
    Took the online assessment twice. It takes 2 hours to complete it. Never received any phone call or email or anything saying that my application was denied or accepted.
    - pmiller2 6y ago
      I'm glad it wasn't worse. It seems like employers ghosting candidates has become a norm to the extent that I know if I apply for 5 or 10 jobs, I'll be ghosted at least a couple of times. It's stupidly unprofessional -- IMO, if a human looks at your application, you should get a personalized email saying whether or not they intend to move forward; and, if no human looks at the application, the candidate should get at least an automated email explaining why, or a timeframe in which a human should be able to get around to looking at it. This ain't rocket science. Sure, individual humans who are part of the process can make mistakes sometimes, but when it's coming from a group that says "we can't hire enough people! skills shortage!", I have very little sympathy.
- davidf18 6y ago
  "finishing bachelor's degree" What was the degree? Was it CS or engineering?
summitsummit 6y ago
you shouldn't have to be mad or pushed beyond a certain emotional threshold to organize. organization shouldn't be a form of retaliation. this should always have been the status quo.
- ralusek 6y ago
  Please, no. I do not want software engineering to become unionized.
  - smt88 6y ago
    Why?
  - reedf1 6y ago
    You'll be the first to suggest it when a tech slump hits - and it will be too late.
    - mrmonkeyman 6y ago
      No, I'll do something else. This pedestrian shit is beneath me. I'm not some abused worker that needs to be sheltered by the forces of "good".
    - namdnay 6y ago
      Or when they hit 50 and realize they can’t get a new job in 2 days anymore
    - eru 6y ago
      What makes you think so?
  - risyachka 6y ago
    It would be really nice, especially in game dev industry where software engineers earn way less than web developers.
    - 6y ago
josh_fyi 6y ago
Recruiters for remote-working companies: for your attention!
BooneJS 6y ago
For those interested, Google’s Madison office has some openings for software and hardware engineers. Our office is downtown in the same building as The Sylvee, and Google has publicly announced that voluntary WFH has been extended through June 2021 to allow employees the confidence to commit to personal arrangements until then.

164 points by mgerdts 6y ago

tikthot 6y ago

Using VB is it's own form of abuse. Have they moved off of it yet

s9w 6y ago

This is about Epic Systems (healthcare software) and not about Epic Games.

logicslave12 6y ago
Funny that there’s two well known software companies that have disgruntled software developers. The title is believable for either

minimaxir 6y ago

Relevant thread from /r/cscareerquestions: https://reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/comments/i3n1cy/name_and_shame_epic_systems_for_unnecessarily/ https://reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/comments/i3n1cy/name_...

nthitz 6y ago

Epic is the area's largest tech employer and their employees are a boon to the region. Unfortunately the Company has and continues to treat their staff like expendable college grads

cordite 6y ago
This was my experience.

Animats 6y ago

Oh, not Epic Games.

Negitivefrags 6y ago

I know this is going to be unpopular, but I just want to think about this companies perspective to add a bit of balance to this thread. I know a lot of people on here feel like work from home is just as productive or even more so than working in the office, especially in the case of open office layouts, but it's just not universally true. Some people are really good with responsibility, and some people really are not. As an illustrative example, you might have 20% of workers working at 120% efficiency, 50% of workers working at 80% efficency, and 30% of workers working at 10% efficiency. This example comes out to about 67% productivity overall. But you are still paying 100% of the salaries. It would be nice if you could just tell the 30% who have terrible efficiency to come in while everyone else can work from home, but you can't. It immediately going to be seen as unfair. "Why does X get to work from home and I don't?!". Many people don't even have the self awareness to tell that they are terrible at working from home. Another option would paying people for the amount of work they are actually delivering. Yeah, that isn't going to happen. I mean, for a start, it's hard to even quantify most of the time. A good manager knows who is delivering and who isn't, but you can't exactly point to number of bugs closed, or lines of code checked in to prove it. And aside from anything else differing pay is a hard pill to swallow even without WFH involved. The guy earning 200k might be 4x as useful as the guy being paid 100k, or he may be no better or even worse! My point is that there is no really satisfactory option here. I mean, you can make the argument "It's a pandemic, they should be happy to pay the same amount for 67% of the work" and sure, maybe that's just the way the cookie crumbles. I mean, lots of people are being totally forced out of business due to this pandemic so it's better situation than those guys I guess? But you can at least understand that it's a sucky position to be in.

dry_soup 6y ago
Paying employees according to the true value of their labor is tempting at first, but you better be careful-- Apply the principle too consistently and the C-suite gets a huge pay cut.
- eddyfromtheblok 6y ago
  yeah, imagine having to have to wear a suit all day, a horror that only a 8 figure salary can compensate for.

foogazi 6y ago

> It’s hard (actually, it’s impossible) to retain our culture when we’re working from our homes First it was sacrifice for the economy, now it’s for the company culture!

amir734jj 6y ago

I live in Wisconsin and I applied to work there twice after finishing bachelor's degree about 8 years ago. Both times I was rejected. I was thinking by working at Epic I would be solving real-world problem and helping humanity so I was excited. The way I was treated says a lot about their culture and how much they value their employees. They are a terrible company inside and outside.

pmiller2 6y ago
How were you treated?
- amir734jj 6y ago
  Took the online assessment twice. It takes 2 hours to complete it. Never received any phone call or email or anything saying that my application was denied or accepted.
  - pmiller2 6y ago
    I'm glad it wasn't worse. It seems like employers ghosting candidates has become a norm to the extent that I know if I apply for 5 or 10 jobs, I'll be ghosted at least a couple of times. It's stupidly unprofessional -- IMO, if a human looks at your application, you should get a personalized email saying whether or not they intend to move forward; and, if no human looks at the application, the candidate should get at least an automated email explaining why, or a timeframe in which a human should be able to get around to looking at it. This ain't rocket science. Sure, individual humans who are part of the process can make mistakes sometimes, but when it's coming from a group that says "we can't hire enough people! skills shortage!", I have very little sympathy.
davidf18 6y ago
"finishing bachelor's degree" What was the degree? Was it CS or engineering?

summitsummit 6y ago

you shouldn't have to be mad or pushed beyond a certain emotional threshold to organize. organization shouldn't be a form of retaliation. this should always have been the status quo.

ralusek 6y ago
Please, no. I do not want software engineering to become unionized.
- smt88 6y ago
  Why?
- reedf1 6y ago
  You'll be the first to suggest it when a tech slump hits - and it will be too late.
  - mrmonkeyman 6y ago
    No, I'll do something else. This pedestrian shit is beneath me. I'm not some abused worker that needs to be sheltered by the forces of "good".
  - namdnay 6y ago
    Or when they hit 50 and realize they can’t get a new job in 2 days anymore
  - eru 6y ago
    What makes you think so?
- risyachka 6y ago
  It would be really nice, especially in game dev industry where software engineers earn way less than web developers.
  - 6y ago

josh_fyi 6y ago

Recruiters for remote-working companies: for your attention!

BooneJS 6y ago

For those interested, Google’s Madison office has some openings for software and hardware engineers. Our office is downtown in the same building as The Sylvee, and Google has publicly announced that voluntary WFH has been extended through June 2021 to allow employees the confidence to commit to personal arrangements until then.