13 ms·

Coups, lies, dirty tricks: Stewart Copeland on his CIA agent father (2000)

97 points by AndrewBissell 6y ago

Synaesthesia 6y ago
Interesting that he said everything his father taught him was confirmed by history books. Well, there’s history books and history books.
- AndrewBissell 6y ago
  Yes, I certainly don't remember my high school textbook mentioning anything about how America's CIA-led foreign policy should be considered explicitly "amoral." Even here you get the usual spook dissembling from Miles Copeland -- it's plainly immoral.
rasz 6y ago
“Guys, 70 years have gone by! The current regime of Iran was not chosen by the CIA." Indeed, it was more of a MI6 job https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/aug/02/mi6-the-coup-in-iran-that-changed-the-middle-east-and-the-cover-up https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/aug/02/mi6-the-coup-i...
smitty1e 6y ago
Loved his music, never realized he had that much else going on.
- frereubu 6y ago
  You might enjoy his autobiography, Strange Things Happen, which mostly skirts around The Police. Very enjoyable.
grugagag 6y ago
> “Guys, 70 years have gone by! The current regime of Iran was not chosen by the CIA. It’s what happened when the Iranians chose their system of governance. For right or wrong, it’s theirs.” Really? The current regime in Iran and the fate of that country was a direct consequence of exactly what came before that. And that throughout the Middle East. That line of thinking is, honestly, either dumb or simply ignorant. But I guess not as stated: “My father’s view was that democracy was like two wolves and a sheep voting on what’s for dinner,” says Stewart, “and indeed in the Arab world it’s very much like that. My father wasn’t in the business of exporting democracy. He was in the business of getting the oil to the west by hook or by crook.”
- CalChris 6y ago
  He’s definitely not ignorant but when he’s talking about the results of his father’s actions I think rather than dumb I’d say self-serving.
  - TheOtherHobbes 6y ago
    There's no rational reason to expect a drummer to have anything interesting or insightful to say about realpolitik.
    - golemotron 6y ago
      Commercial music is closer to realpolitik than most of us are in tech.
- totalZero 6y ago
  The Shah was ousted by Iranians and the new regime was put into place by Iranians. The revolution was expressly anti-American from the beginning. I don't deny foreign influence in the upheaval process, but certainly the US did not choose to replace the Shah with Khomeini. So, I don't understand your objection. It seems like a "butterfly effect" argument, where you are saying that anything done by one group of political actors is the cause of all subsequent events in that political sphere. I disagree with this; if we say that all subsequent events were caused by all preceding events, that may be true in some sense I suppose, but it needlessly blurs the definition of "causality" to the point where the word becomes altogether useless. On the other hand, there's a little bit of a "dream deferred" tone to what you're saying -- as though delaying the downfall of the monarchy only led to a more reactionary, less goal-oriented revolution later down the road. Maybe so, as not all of the revolutionary groups belonged to the same political ideology as Khomeini...but the new government was definitely chosen by the Iranian people.
  - DoreenMichele 6y ago
    Iran remains under embargo by the US to this day. It significantly impacts everything that goes on in that country. US policy continues to be a huge factor shaping Iran. That isn't "history." Acting like that's "history" is kind of like acting like the issues that Black Americans have currently has nothing at all to do with the fact that their ancestors came to this country as slaves and we continue to have racist policies in place, many of which were intentionally and consciously racist at the time that they were created. And we keep failing to really overturn them. (For example: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24059608 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24059608)
seamyb88 6y ago
Holy crap, the worst member of the Police isn't Sting.
redis_mlc 6y ago
From what I've read, all 3 members of the Police wanted to be the band leader, which resulted in acrimony, including fist fights. Sting, a writer, realized he didn't need them or the aggravation, hence his solo career.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
TedDoesntTalk 6y ago
> My Dad the Spy, an Audible Original Podcast, is available to download from Audible.co.uk I’d like to hear this, but I’m not subscribing to Audible for it.
AndrewBissell 6y ago
Famous musical artists with spook upbringings are one gigantic rabbit hole once you peek inside: https://centerforaninformedamerica.com/laurelcanyon/ https://centerforaninformedamerica.com/laurelcanyon/

97 points by AndrewBissell 6y ago

Interesting that he said everything his father taught him was confirmed by history books. Well, there’s history books and history books.

AndrewBissell 6y ago
Yes, I certainly don't remember my high school textbook mentioning anything about how America's CIA-led foreign policy should be considered explicitly "amoral." Even here you get the usual spook dissembling from Miles Copeland -- it's plainly immoral.

rasz 6y ago

“Guys, 70 years have gone by! The current regime of Iran was not chosen by the CIA." Indeed, it was more of a MI6 job https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/aug/02/mi6-the-coup-in-iran-that-changed-the-middle-east-and-the-cover-up https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/aug/02/mi6-the-coup-i...

smitty1e 6y ago

Loved his music, never realized he had that much else going on.

frereubu 6y ago
You might enjoy his autobiography, Strange Things Happen, which mostly skirts around The Police. Very enjoyable.

grugagag 6y ago

> “Guys, 70 years have gone by! The current regime of Iran was not chosen by the CIA. It’s what happened when the Iranians chose their system of governance. For right or wrong, it’s theirs.” Really? The current regime in Iran and the fate of that country was a direct consequence of exactly what came before that. And that throughout the Middle East. That line of thinking is, honestly, either dumb or simply ignorant. But I guess not as stated: “My father’s view was that democracy was like two wolves and a sheep voting on what’s for dinner,” says Stewart, “and indeed in the Arab world it’s very much like that. My father wasn’t in the business of exporting democracy. He was in the business of getting the oil to the west by hook or by crook.”

CalChris 6y ago
He’s definitely not ignorant but when he’s talking about the results of his father’s actions I think rather than dumb I’d say self-serving.
- TheOtherHobbes 6y ago
  There's no rational reason to expect a drummer to have anything interesting or insightful to say about realpolitik.
  - golemotron 6y ago
    Commercial music is closer to realpolitik than most of us are in tech.
totalZero 6y ago
The Shah was ousted by Iranians and the new regime was put into place by Iranians. The revolution was expressly anti-American from the beginning. I don't deny foreign influence in the upheaval process, but certainly the US did not choose to replace the Shah with Khomeini. So, I don't understand your objection. It seems like a "butterfly effect" argument, where you are saying that anything done by one group of political actors is the cause of all subsequent events in that political sphere. I disagree with this; if we say that all subsequent events were caused by all preceding events, that may be true in some sense I suppose, but it needlessly blurs the definition of "causality" to the point where the word becomes altogether useless. On the other hand, there's a little bit of a "dream deferred" tone to what you're saying -- as though delaying the downfall of the monarchy only led to a more reactionary, less goal-oriented revolution later down the road. Maybe so, as not all of the revolutionary groups belonged to the same political ideology as Khomeini...but the new government was definitely chosen by the Iranian people.
- DoreenMichele 6y ago
  Iran remains under embargo by the US to this day. It significantly impacts everything that goes on in that country. US policy continues to be a huge factor shaping Iran. That isn't "history." Acting like that's "history" is kind of like acting like the issues that Black Americans have currently has nothing at all to do with the fact that their ancestors came to this country as slaves and we continue to have racist policies in place, many of which were intentionally and consciously racist at the time that they were created. And we keep failing to really overturn them. (For example: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24059608 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24059608)

seamyb88 6y ago

Holy crap, the worst member of the Police isn't Sting.

redis_mlc 6y ago

From what I've read, all 3 members of the Police wanted to be the band leader, which resulted in acrimony, including fist fights. Sting, a writer, realized he didn't need them or the aggravation, hence his solo career.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

TedDoesntTalk 6y ago

> My Dad the Spy, an Audible Original Podcast, is available to download from Audible.co.uk I’d like to hear this, but I’m not subscribing to Audible for it.

AndrewBissell 6y ago

Famous musical artists with spook upbringings are one gigantic rabbit hole once you peek inside: https://centerforaninformedamerica.com/laurelcanyon/ https://centerforaninformedamerica.com/laurelcanyon/