11 ms·

I've mentioned this before, but my wife is a parathyroid surgeon (parathyroids are the glands that regulate the calcium in your neck) and would beg you to PLEAS

• wpasc 6y ago
  Would you mind elaborating on what you mean by "wacky" levels? I can't tell from your comment if that means high or low. Asking as a Vitamin D supplement user who uses 2-3k IU a day
  • woko 6y ago
    Not a doctor, but I have had kidney stones. The answer is a loss of calcium, so high level found in urine test: if you had way too much vitamin D, then you would start releasing the calcium from your bones. I don't think that taking calcium supplements would help, because calcium metabolism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calcium_metabolism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calcium_metabolism) is much more complex than that.
    • devaboone 6y ago
      Calcium metabolism is complicated, but there are a few things that are straightforward. 1. Vitamin D helps the intestines absorb calcium, so taking more Vitamin D can lead to more calcium being absorbed in your intestines, and thus more calcium in the blood. The excess calcium in your blood is caused by increased absorption from the intestines, not from bone release. (High calcium with parathyroid disease is caused by bone release, as well as increased intestinal absorption) 2. Taking calcium supplements along with Vitamin D will allow your intestines to absorb more of the calcium you are taking. 3. There are several reasons for having a lot of calcium in the urine. Primary hyperparathyroidism can do it, and in this case you will see high blood calcium levels also. If the blood calcium is low or normal (under 10.0 mg/dl), then you have another reason for high urine calcium.
      • pure_simplicity 6y ago
        Do you know what could be happening if taking vitamin D gives you severe headaches that last for days and gradually get weaker? If you need more information, please ask away.
        • DoreenMichele 6y ago
          As someone who has worked on various deficiencies over the years, including vitamin D, I will suggest it means the dose you are taking is probably too high. When I had similar issues, reducing my sun exposure -- which was how I was improving my vitamin D status at the time -- resolved the headaches and vomiting that I was experiencing.
          • pure_simplicity 6y ago
            Thanks for the response. I'm surprised you can even get too much D with sun exposure. The thing is: I used to take vitamin D supplements fairly regularly, but now I barely take any. I will go weeks without supplementing, but when I do, I get headaches. No increased urination though, which would happen if i had excess calcium, and no nausea/vomiting. Last time, i tried 5000IU, but this came after weeks of not taking any D supplement, and I've not taken any since. My reasoning is: that would effectively make the average dose < 400 IU, so shouldn't give me any problems, yet it does. Maybe I'm getting more from the sun than i realize :/
            • DoreenMichele 6y ago
              I'm surprised you can even get too much D with sun exposure. I'm a special case. Trying to explain that is probably a can of worms. shouldn't give me any problems, yet it does There may be other factors there, which I could potentially speculate on. But A. It tends to be a can of worms when I start speculating like that and B. You didn't initially give enough info to really warrant such speculation. You only gave enough to make me feel like the safe bet was to comment on the dosage and leave it at that.
  • devaboone 6y ago
    Hi, I'm the wife. High dose Vitamin D can cause elevated calcium levels (meaning over 10.0 mg/dl for adults over 40, it can be a little higher for younger adults). I usually don't see that occur with doses at 2-3 K IU daily. You can also check your Vitamin D 25-OH levels (the level that will be done if you just get a standard "Vitamin D level") and these should be in a reasonable range. What constitutes reasonable may be debatable, but in general I do not see elevated calcium levels with Vitamin D levels that are under 50 ng/ml (unless the person has parathyroid disease, another topic). The "toxic" range for Vitamin D is usually set to 100, but this is well over where most people should be. Toxicity with regard to Vitamin D means high calcium - that is the toxic effect. And I have seen this toxic effect occur with Vit D levels in the 50s.
    • pow_pp_-1_v 6y ago
      What are the ill effects of elevated blood-calcium levels? Is there a way to avoid the bad effects of high dose Vitamin D supplements? Thanks!
      • xxpor 6y ago
        There's a range of symptoms, but with me it caused (or at least contributed to) a calcium oxalate kidney stone. Not fun.
    • andy_ppp 6y ago
      If taking Vitamin D do you recommend Magnesium and K2 as well, as I understand it these need to be in balance?
      • fizixer 6y ago
        I don't know if K supplementation helps with calcium levels, but you don't need magnesium supplementation as long you have half-decent diet. There is plenty of magnesium in foods.
        • lostmyoldone 6y ago
• keldaris 6y ago
  Could you elaborate in more detail? Given your wife's background, I'd guess you were referring to people with pre-existing hyperparathyroidism who are therefore prone to quickly develop hypercalcaemia from even modest Vitamin D supplementation, but perhaps there's more to it? If your wife wants to write a blog post on the subject, I'm sure there'd be a lot of interest.
  • conorh 6y ago
    She was thinking about writing a blog post on Vitamin D already and she says she will it in the next few days and I'll post it here when she does. She is not talking about patients with pre-existing hyperparathyroidism - they often think they have it because the calcium is high, but it is only high because of the vitamin D!
    • graeme 6y ago
      You/she should put an email signup on her site or in a comment here. Would help people see the eventual article.
• ruffrey 6y ago
  What level of supplementation? I see huge ranges of vitamin D, by mouth or intramuscular, mentioned in this thread. As someone taking vitamin D (1k IU) with K2 I wonder what levels affect calcium.
• ColanR 6y ago
  Right now, I'd rather have a calcium problem than a Covid-19 problem. Also, some of the studies being thrown around in this discussion have mentioned that safe levels of Vitamin D are much higher than a lot of medical professionals actually think. > there is virtually no risk of toxicity in supplementing up to 10,000 IU of vitamin D3 daily https://sci-hub.se/https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0306987709007634?via%3Dihub https://sci-hub.se/https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/art...
  • devaboone 6y ago
    I read the study that is cited on your link. It was a review article about Vitamin D, not a study on Vitamin D toxicity. And in fact, in the references for that article, there is no study cited directly related to Vitamin D toxicity that I can see. The cutoff at 10K is largely someone's opinion. I cannot say how many people will be harmed by taking such a high dose, but I know with certainty that toxicity at that dose is not rare, because I see it all the time. Some people can take very high doses and be just fine, calcium stays normal. Others will take 5000 units daily and end up with high calcium, and all the symptoms that go along with that (including kidney stones, fatigue, cardiac arrhythmias, etc). Now I am not saying that NO ONE should take high dose Vit D. Some people actually need that high dose, but that is only in the case of someone with very low Vit D and low calcium levels - often in someone who has problems with intestinal absorption, as you would see in someone who had a gastric bypass, for example.
    • ColanR 6y ago
      Thanks for the response. I'm curious what your wife thinks about this article [0], mentioned elsewhere in this discussion. It makes the case that the current RDA for Vitamin D is based on a statistical error, and that the recommended dose should be closer to 8000 IU for young adults. [0] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28768407/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28768407/
      • sachdevap 6y ago
        FYI, that is the wife/doctor's account you replied to.
• seamyb88 6y ago
  I recently stopped taking my (self-prescribed) dose of 1,000 IU Vitamin D3. Before this I was on 2,000. I work all day and rarely leave the house, sometimes for a couple of weeks. I thought I was doing the sane thing. A good number of months in and I start getting all of the symptoms - lethargy, constipation, stomach and intestinal pain, urinating very frequently and feeling like I had a kidney infection. Bloods came back all normal, including vitamin D and calcium. My symptoms chime so much with Vitaminosis D (Vitamin D toxicity) that I wonder whether the serum levels are accurate indicators of such toxicity. Vitamin D is stored in fat and the calcium gets deposited in muscles - two possible mechanisms for this. However, I do not know for sure. Either way I have been scared sh!tless of self-prescribing anything else. No matter how mundane it seems.
  • partyboat1586 6y ago
    1000-2000IU is a low dose your blood work came back normal. All those symptoms are pretty generic as well, I'd look elsewhere.
• conorh 6y ago
  There are great questions on this thread, when she is available she will weigh in. I don't have the answers unfortunately! Feel free to reach out to her via her website too if you have very specific questions - she doesn't mind that at all.
  • abawany 6y ago
    Thank you. Somewhat related: I wanted to inform that ublock hides the submit button on the blog - if someone is having difficulty subscribing, they should trying disabling ublock for a bit before the submit button becomes visible.
• jessriedel 6y ago
  All the vitamin D supplements I see in the pharmacy come combined with calcium. Should that take care of it or does "out of whack" mean calcium could be too high as well as too low?
  • devaboone 6y ago
    Calcium supplements often include Vitamin D because it aids in intestinal absorption of calcium. That is actually one of the main roles of Vitamin D. You can find Vitamin D by itself, in anywhere from 400 to 5000 units per pill. Taking high doses of Vitamin D can cause high calcium (due to more being absorbed in the intestines), and taking extra calcium would just exacerbate that. If someone has low calcium levels, I recommend taking both calcium and Vitamin D. Low Vitamin D can cause low calcium levels.
• mellosouls 6y ago
  Without a reference to go by a quick Google indicates toxicity is only likely by taking far above recommended levels (max recommended is 4000iu daily) for an extended period. Presumably people on those kind of doses are taking it under medical supervision, or are idiots/under the control of idiots. I am not a doctor, but without further information it seems that as ever, following the guidance on legit supplies specifically and mainstream medical advice generally is a good rule of thumb.
  • devaboone 6y ago
    There are some very vocal people who argue that the risk of toxicity is very low. The studies aren't great. But for most people, taking a moderate dose of Vitamin D will be safe. Unfortunately, I have treated many patients who come to me with high calcium levels due to taking Vitamin D. They do not have parathyroid disease (I have treated thousands of patients with parathyroid disease). They have simply been taking high doses of Vitamin D. High dose is generally 5000 units a day or more, though I have seen it occur with lower doses if taken over many years. Vitamin D is fat soluble, so it will stay in your system for a long time, building up. Of note, some of those patients were instructed by their doctors to take those high doses. Even doctors forget the relationship between calcium and Vitamin D, and I have spoken with doctors who did not realize that 5000 units a day could cause problems. As a doctor, there is a lot to know and remember, and most doctors haven't studied calcium metabolism in many years.
    • mellosouls 6y ago
      Thanks for the reply and contextual information.
    • deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    • elcritch 6y ago
      It makes sense many doctors, especially general practitioners, would forget or not know about the Vitamin D/Calcium link. However, wouldn't a doctor prescribing a large dose of Vitamin D take at least yearly standard set of blood tests too that would include calcium levels? Then again, that's assuming there's a fairly standard set of blood tests to check for imbalances of this kind. Also, it seems odd there isn't a standard procedure for prescribing Vit D that included "check calcium levels".
• fbr 6y ago
  It seems that you have to balance it with Vitamin K2 https://info.dralexrinehart.com/articles/vitamin-d-and-vitamin-k2-benefits-connection https://info.dralexrinehart.com/articles/vitamin-d-and-vitam...
• jjeaff 6y ago
  Thanks for the link and please have her include whether k2 supplementation is recommended or necessary along with the d3. I have been supplementing with k2 due to a history of kidney stones.
• dropin685 6y ago
  Here (below) is a quote from the article, on the subject of calcium. (I suppose some of us may be reluctant or unable to have calcium levels monitored. But it seems all of us should be taking vitamin K2 along with our vitamin D.) >The authors explicitly point out that each vitamin D supplementation must be accompanied by sufficient vitamin K2. This certainly prevents the rise of the calcium level in the blood, which is often seen as a risk for the supply of vitamin D
  • devaboone 6y ago
    Vitamin K2 does help bones absorb calcium, but it will not prevent the blood calcium level from rising if you are really taking more Vitamin D than you need. This is simply wishful thinking.
    • benibela 6y ago
      Is vitamin K safe to supplement? Or does it mess with the blood clotting? People recommend really quite doses: K2-MK7 at 100 to 200mcg, or alternatively K2-MK4 15 to 45 mg (not mcg).
      • 23rtg 6y ago
        Fermented foods are a potent source of bioavailable K2
    • partyboat1586 6y ago
      A vitamin K deficiency with normal vitamin D levels would cause blood calcium levels to rise. Many people are deficient in vitamin K since it's mostly found in leafy greens and liver, no one's favourite foods. The difficulty is judging what is a normal vitamin D level by incidence of people with elevated calcium levels in the blood without having tested all of those people for vitamin K deficiency first.
    • shankarganesh 6y ago
      Is there a way to determine if I'm deficient in Vitamin K2. If yes, is there a way to get supplements for it?
• manmal 6y ago
  Is it true that Vit K2 ameliorates that problem? Or should that also not be taken blindly?