11 ms·

China Uighurs: A model's video gives a rare glimpse inside internment

228 points by baylearn 6y ago

Arbalest 6y ago
How does one compile this and other evidence to present to expatriate Mainlanders? Is it even worth it?
- abc-xyz 6y ago
  You can use GitHub since it’s one of the few platforms (if not the only) that won’t be blocked in China and Microsoft is very unlikely to censor your repository. WeChat and other social media will of course shadowban messages containing a link to your repo (assuming it become popular enough to be noticed) but you can find creative ways to bypass the blacklisting (e.g. share link in a picture, with spaces in the link, forking the repo and sharing the forked one, etc.)
- lma21 6y ago
  Why do we think expats would be interested in this? What's the point anyway? Shouldn't we use this evidence instead to wake people up on the impacts of consumerism? Didn't we allow China to become what it is today due to how we buy things (all things are made in China today?) and how companies are constantly seeking to reduce costs and in some cases irresponsibly? What have we said to those companies? Disclaimer: I'm from Europe.
  - Shivetya 6y ago
    This is the issue, it is not a matter of convincing the Chinese people their government is a problem it is a matter of convincing politicians in the Western world that China is truly a problem and pressuring corporations at stock holder meetings the same. Both need to be told the same thing, doing business in China is not acceptable. Corporations can be forced to change course by stock holders and national or state governments, governments can only be changed by pressure on the political parties in each. * I own both Tesla and Apple products, my statement on not buying an Apple product made in China needs to be expanded. I will not buy an Apple product or another Tesla until both leave China or the Chinese government changes direction; which I believe will only get worse if the believe the US government slides in weakness or non interventionist form
- DarthGhandi 6y ago
  Just follow the works of "leading Xinjiang expert" Adrian Zenz, who is repeatedly mentioned in this BBC article and given huge amounts of airtime by news orgs around the world. By his own account he can't speak any dialect or read Chinese but he is the goto expert on the matter. The main paper of his routinely quoted on by the media is published in the Journal of Political Risk. It mainly draws on Google translations of open source government data, there's strangely mentions of Bible verses in it. You might also be interested in his main job as an evangelic missionary teaching theological students, his position at an anti-communism foundation with dubious funding sources, an online phd from a university with a very similar name as Cambridge (his wiki page even looks to the actual Cambridge), his homophobic statements, other statements on how he is on a mission from God to "save" China and his published book: "Worthy to Escape: Why All Believers Will Not Be Raptured Before the Tribulation"* I'm not sure if it's worth debating this topic here on HN anymore because it's really becoming pointless and pure ideological propaganda where no one wants to debate in good faith (much like this article with basically nothing of substance, a guy got caught with weed and now has a call phone inside jail? Throw in some Adrian Zenz quotes and call it a day) Previous threads have people boldly proclaiming with no evidence whatsoever that "_millions_ of Uyghurs have been sterilised in the last year, what has any other country done even close to that?", leaving the absurdity of that behind, the responses with numerous sources and good faith debate are CSS censored into oblivion. This BBC article is propaganda, there's literally no any evidence whatsoever it's true, by their own words deep into the text. The public is being buttered up for yet another two decades of war, with Iraq WMD levels of proof of why it should happen and the populace lap it up again. The UN Human Rights Commissioner was invited over a year ago[1] to Xinjiang, she still hasn't gone, China is still asking her to come and hopefully she'll make it by the end of 2020 [2] Dozens of countries, many not even aligned with China have sent a joint letter to the UN [3] saying their investigations showed nothing like what is claimed in the Western media. Muslim countries are praising their efforts to control terrorism in the region.[3] Given your question, I'd ask a counter-question: Is it worth trying to convince people that's there's a lot more here than the headlines and it's far more about the challenge to US hegemony more than anything else? Why is everything presented always with some terrifyingly evil implication that's ends up generally quite mundane when you actually read into it. There's more satellites than ever before (you can academically launch a 0.5U cubesat over China for $12,000) and yet no one seems to have any satellite evidence of these 1.5 million people supposedly detained. I'm guessing they're in caves or something? Everything presented is flimsy and speaks to a much larger game, a game many tacitly acknowledge deep down and think the ends justify the means, lies or not. WMD's or not, many somehow justify that travesty to themselves in a strange post-purchase rationalisation. [1] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-rights-un-idUSKCN1TE12Q https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-rights-un-idUSKCN1T... [2] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-xinjiang-rights-idUSKCN20K1ZE https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-xinjiang-rights-idU... [3] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-xinjiang-rights-idUSKCN1U721X https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-xinjiang-rights-idU... *Available on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Worthy-Escape-Believers-Raptured-Tribulation/dp/144976908X https://www.amazon.com/Worthy-Escape-Believers-Raptured-Trib...
throwaway_4228 6y ago
> His uncle ... believes the video could galvanise public opinion in the same way that footage of the police treatment of George Floyd became a powerful symbol of racial discrimination in the US. The worrying thing is, protests like those for George Floyd won't be possible to happen within China, and even if they happen overseas, most people inside China won't even be aware of them. With the information control in place, long lasting suppression against minorities is one of the most terrifying things that can happen.
- ghthor 6y ago
  Also turns out that the uncut bodycam footage leaked yesterday isnt damming evidence of racial anything in the case of George Floyd. The body footage shows a standard arrest gone bad because the suspect was currently overdosing on fentanyl and having a panic attack. Hopefully some people start to feel a little bit embarrassed over there reactions and support of violent riots.
saeranv 6y ago
It's atrocious what the CCP under Xi is doing. And it's dismaying that other quasi-authoritarian countries are taking note. From Basil Rajapaksa (part of the political family in Sri Lanka responsible for various war crimes during the civil war): “I want our party to be a party like the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) and how they act... We have learned from many political parties in the world. The best two are the BJP and CCP.” From http://www.newswire.lk/2020/07/30/basil-wants-slpp-to-become-like-chinas-ccp-or-indias-bjp/ http://www.newswire.lk/2020/07/30/basil-wants-slpp-to-become....
mkbkn 6y ago
Downvote me for this - If you're using China-made products, you're responsible for the bugger balls of CCP, unethical/illegal selling of human organs and what not. They are no different from a radical terrorist organization.
- tluyben2 6y ago
  We are on HN and even here everyone will have issues identifying the make and even harder, the mining of the raw material in their phones, computers, lightbulbs. It is really not so easy to not buy from China. Maybe the end product is from Taiwan or Thailand or whatever, it still contains quite a lot of components from China. Which would make you what, a terrorist? It will take time and effort and yes, actual money (you will probably pay more) to change this. And we are on HN. Go talk to random people on the street about it.
- lostlogin 6y ago
  > If you're using China-made products, you're responsible What sort of limits do you have to this statement? You're posting this on a forum. Have you checked the country of origin of the servers and components used by the telecoms for their equipment between you and those servers?
  - cycomanic 6y ago
    That's a straw man though. Nobody said you need to be perfect, however there are enough products where we know exactly where they made and still ignore the human rights violations, maybe that's a good start.
    - aaomidi 6y ago
      There is no ethical consumption under capitalism. Stop blaming individuals and expect more from your leadership.
    - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
      It seems to me that the original comment did indeed say you have to be perfect, and that you’re complicit with China’s worst abuses to the degree that you aren’t. I’m all in favor of boycotting China, but it seems extraordinarily counterproductive to say that anyone who’s not currently boycotting is a bad person.
chloerei 6y ago
The CCP imprisoned him and provided him a cell phone and internet so that he can communicate with the outside world... Well, if that also convinces you that I have nothing to say. This kind of propaganda from the West is something China cannot learn.
- kart23 6y ago
  I sincerely don't understand how people can just disappear for years and how you don't see anything wrong with that.
- amscanne 6y ago
  If it’s genuine, it might also be smuggled in? Also, cell phones tend to work anyway there’s cell coverage.
  - beenBoutIT 6y ago
    Cellphones are in prisons everywhere. Visitors and inmates stow them up their asses and they can be bought inside. https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/zngpz4/prison-phones-that-go-up-your-bum https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/zngpz4/prison-phones-that...
    - aaomidi 6y ago
      You can look at #PrisonTikTok on... TikTok. You'll see a ton of footage from people in prison.
    - wonnage 6y ago
      This is fairly likely sent from his own phone - WeChat requires you to verify via various forms of 2-factor to log in on a new phone. He also states that it's own phone in the report.
    - chloerei 6y ago
      The management of Chinese prisons is not as chaotic as in the United States.
- 6y ago
beenBoutIT 6y ago
That loudspeaker broadcasting fun "facts" is an interesting way to reeducate captives. IIRC, the consensus among most Western experts is that this type of brainwashing isn't effective.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- dragonwriter 6y ago
  Perhaps, just a thought, that is because it's not intended for brainwashing as that term is usually used, but simple behavior modification. The difference being that it's not about inducing belief in the content of propaganda, but constantly underlining what beliefs it is acceptable to demonstrate outward compliance with, while other avenues demonstrate the cost of non-compliance. The brainwashing doesn't happen to the people that are directly subject to it, but to the ones raised in an environment surrounded by people who, if they aren't true believers but are still around to be seen as models, have been cowed into behavioral conformance.
  - raxxorrax 6y ago
    So it is just harmless nudging?
    - dragonwriter 6y ago
      I don't know where you got “harmless nudging” from that description of it as part of a system of violent coercion of the immediate subjects that is long-game brainwashing directed beyond them, but, no.
- dirtyid 6y ago
  It's just one component of indoctrination. China also has experiences with prior re-education and work movements. Xi himself was sent to Yunnan (Down to the Countryside Movement) the TLDR is he's a believer. Work camps work, especially on impressionable generations. That's how you create red guards, and why CCP has been trying to ram patriotic education down HK throats. I feel like west likes to reaffirm anecdotes from Chinese cabbies who bitch about the dark times, when in reality those times also forged many believers. People conflate failed economic reforms with failed indoctorination movements. China of that era had much better success re-engineering souls than development - the former merely requires rhetoric which is free, whereas the latter requires capital which is not. Neither words or capital are constraints anymore. Uyghurs also skew young being exempt from family planning policy, so reeducating the youngest generation will shift the entire regions sentiment in 10-20 years assuming the region receives commiserate economic development - hence the vocational training component.
armini 6y ago
If you're interested in this topic, I strongly suggest you all read The China Crisis By: James R. Gorrie It provides amazing insight into what's happening in the region & what we can expect to see over the coming years.
- dgellow 6y ago
  Could you share some of those insights?
throwaway_pdp09 6y ago
There's more than enough evidence now with or without this so I'll put it simply. Those who defend this abuse of an ethnic group are as complicit as the nazis of last century.
cycomanic 6y ago
I've been wondering how I could bring this up with the mainland Chinese I know. It's particularly difficult, because for some of them I'm in a supervisory/managerial role, but I don't want to put pressure on them, which would raise all sort of other ethical dilemmas and would likely not be effective. Anyone else can share experiences?
- raxxorrax 6y ago
  Why would you want to bring that up with them specifically? Not advocating that people should look the other way, but I wouldn't like superiors associating me with the deeds of the government of China. It might have been a good idea to actually support the protests for freedom in Hong Kong, but the "west" looked extremely weak here, laden with its own problems. edit: Just to clarify, I wouldn't bring up Hong Kong either...
- dangus 6y ago
  You should not.
- aaomidi 6y ago
  Just no.
- throwaway_pdp09 6y ago
  From a moral perspective, that's maybe one thing. From a legal it might be another - you might be construed as discriminating against them or harassing them based on their ethnicity, which is in fact valid; if they weren't chinese you wouldn't be discussing it with them. So in that sense I really would think carefully. In fact, don't. If they bring it up themselves, for or against that slightly changes things but frankly if they're supportive of the oppression then doing anything other than telling them "keep that opinion to yourself" is a minefield. Taking them on will most likely blow up in your face. (edit: no 'most likely' about it. It will). If they are against it and wish to discuss it with you and what to do, it's still a danger (I can't say why, more a feeling) and I'd advise them to contact/join an external group, or their MP/representative etc. and leave it at that. Shit like this discussed at work is bad news, I don't see how doing it can make things better. Anyone who disagrees and can make a better suggestion, I'm very willing to learn from. Edit: to those downvoters, I'm NOT saying don't discuss it, I'm saying don't do so at work. It is deeply unlikely anything helpful will come of for anyone, but it is very likely to damage your reputation or even lose you your job. Speak up! Sure, but in the right place and to those whose job it is to make a difference.
cycomanic 6y ago
John Oliver did an excellent piece on the situation of the uighur last week you can watch it here: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=17oCQakzIl8 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=17oCQakzIl8 I have to say he has really developed his show into an excellent mix of education and entertainment. I used to not like him very much (didn't like his type of humor), but I learn something every time I watch one of his shows, even if it covers a topic I'm already quite familiar with.
- Chris2048 6y ago
  I agree, used to be cheap digs / preaching to the choir style humour; Has become more informative.
aaomidi 6y ago
A recommended watch: https://youtu.be/WmId2ZP3h0c https://youtu.be/WmId2ZP3h0c This is what China wants you to see. Now think about what they don't watch you to see.
- rvz 6y ago
  This is what happens when you show this evidence to a Chinese Ambassador and diplomat. [0] [0] https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1284784810200838145 https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1284784810200838145
  - throwaway9990 6y ago
    Those are prisoners.
    - panpanna 6y ago
      - those are prisoners - what did they do? - these criminals were caught red-handed praying to allah Edit: I am probably on some kind of list now
    - karxxm 6y ago
      If those are "only" prisoners, then it should be okay to let foreign inspectors in and talk to the "prisoners", shouldn't it?
      - iamjordanlittle 6y ago
        American prisons don't allow the UN in for inspections. (Maybe because the US was founded on slavery and never really got away from it so now relies on 2.2 million enslaved black people doing forced labor as a punishment for nonviolent drug crimes or inability to pay fines). https://www.reuters.com/article/us-rights-un-usa-torture-idUSKCN0WA2B8 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-rights-un-usa-torture-idU... https://news.un.org/en/story/2020/05/1063292 https://news.un.org/en/story/2020/05/1063292 https://www.thedailybeast.com/why-the-us-wont-let-the-un-look-inside-its-prisons https://www.thedailybeast.com/why-the-us-wont-let-the-un-loo... https://www.tasnimnews.com/en/news/2015/07/25/809496/united-nations-urges-washington-to-allow-it-to-inspect-us-prisons https://www.tasnimnews.com/en/news/2015/07/25/809496/united-...
rydre 6y ago
As a Muslim, I do not believe this. I still remember the Iraq war. No need to believe state media companies like BBC that never questioned the narrative in the "free" world. China will win hearts, propaganda will lose. No major Muslim country says anything about China. Should make you question everything the mainstream "free" world narrative says about China. Old boomer era propaganda wont work :D come up with something new lazy people.
- cmarschner 6y ago
  The BBC is not a state media company. According to Wikipedia, “The BBC is a statutory corporation, independent from direct government intervention, with its activities being overseen from April 2017 by the BBC Board and regulated by Ofcom.” This is clearly visible given that politicians keep arguing that it is biased towards the other side.
- dragonwriter 6y ago
  > No need to believe state media companies like BBC that never questioned the narrative in the "free" world. While not so much as, say, the Guardian, I remember the BBC questioning the US/UK government narrative, and indeed outright refuting it on a number of points. It's been quite a while, ISTR it was the BBC was one of the earlier (at least of the large number of news sources I was then following) carried the detailed breakdown of how the supposed WMD trailers were, and were known by both the British and American governments to be, systems for inflating and deploying weather balloons that had been sold to Iraq by the British government in the 1980s. > China will win hearts, propaganda will lose. The two statements are incompatible. You probably mean to replace the second with “Chinese propaganda will win.” > No major Muslim country says anything about China A lot of them are looking to China to counterbalance other regional threats, and others (notably Malaysia) have overtly expressed concern about China's actions towards the Uighurs but also explicitly said they can't take a stand on the issue because of the risk of provoking China. > Should make you question everything the mainstream "free" world narrative says about China. Why should the “free world” saying the same thing as Muslim countries that aren’t trying to seek Chinese support for geopolitical reasons, but louder because they aren't under meaningful immediate threat by China, make me question what they are saying?
- 6y ago
coliveira 6y ago
It is too bad that muslins are being mistreated in China, but at least they're not being bombarded to death on imperial wars to steal their oil, like it is being done by western countries. BBC should note this.
boomboomsubban 6y ago
As an American, as terrible as the Chinese actions against the Uighurs in Xinjiang are I still feel we should prioritize ending our nearly twenty year long war in neighboring Afghanistan. We've created millions of refugees, caused over a hundred thousand people to die, and committed numerous human rights violations. Yet the press coverage it gets mostly centers around how we dropped the "mother of all bombs" on them or how disgusting it is to hold peace talks with the Taliban in September. And for all the calls of "whataboutism" this is likely to raise, if we are unable to fix our own problems our attempts to fix China's are unlikely to benefit anyone.
- dragonwriter 6y ago
  > As an American, as terrible as the Chinese actions against the Uighurs in Xinjiang are I still feel we should prioritize ending our nearly twenty year long war in neighboring Afghanistan. I think it's a false choice, because there is nothing a citizen one can do for either that inhibits doing the other; they are complementary, rather than conflicting, goals.
  - boomboomsubban 6y ago
    I disagree. Fixing the mistreatment of Afghanistan requires voting for politicians committed to changing US foreign policy. Changing China's policy involves staying the current course of using military and financial pressure to force countries into doing what we want.
- coliveira 6y ago
  You're completely right, but it's not going to stop the campaign against China, because human rights are not the issue. If it was, people would be out in the streets protesting all day against business done with Saudi Arabia. And people would also protest daily against the human rights violations perpetrated by the US around the world (the UN hasn't lift a finger about that either). The whole goal of the campaign is to raise popular support for a commercial campaign and maybe even a war against China.
  - 6y ago
mieses 6y ago
The comparison of the situations of the Uighurs and the African Americans is straight out of the CCP propaganda playbook. The Soviet Union used to run stories about racism in the US.
auganov 6y ago
And don't forget what's happening to Falun Gong practitioners in China [0][1]. Although I can't be sure, from observation it seems to me like this information is still more heavily embargoed both in China and beyond. The persecution of Uighurs is getting China a lot of heat internationally but domestically it doesn't seem to be as disruptive. Demonizing Uighurs has been much easier given their different ethnicity, religion and effective confinement to a given region. It's easy for people to assume this will never affect them. With Falun Gong you're dealing with millions of members of the mainstream Chinese society who have been subject to all this and worse. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organ_harvesting_from_Falun_Gong_practitioners_in_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organ_harvesting_from_Falun_Go... [1] "Hard to Believe - Full Documentary - Now free to watch during coronavirus lockdown" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RR5o43zZSiA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RR5o43zZSiA
- throwr432345 6y ago
  Don’t forget that the Falun Gong newspaper, The Epoch Times, was banned from Facebook due to publishing conspiracy theories, https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/23/technology/facebook-ads-epoch-times.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/23/technology/facebook-ads-e...
tigerlily 6y ago
My Kazakh office mate is so angry over this. He swears there is going to be jihad.
- DarthGhandi 6y ago
  That was the problem in the beginning though, waging a separatist war. It's why all this started when a lot of Uyghurs came back from Syria after fighting for ISIS. Do you think more of those bombing campaigns, taking hostages at police stations and throwing hand grenades out of cars into busy market bazaars will improve the situation for the people of Xinjiang?
  - kome 6y ago
    are you assuming they should try to find independence with democratic means... in autocratic china?
    - DarthGhandi 6y ago
      I'm saying it's not a good idea. Just like the Rohyingyas who the West cheered on and waxed lyrically about their treatment for years, when push comes to shove no one did a thing to either take in the refugees or pressure the tiny weak impoverished government to stop committing genocide against them and their rebellion. If the West won't stand up to Burma, what do you truly think they're going to do against nuclear armed China, the second largest economy on Earth? It's all well and good to have ideals, but don't pretend they apply in the real world of politics. Feel free to say your country will take in a hundred thousand Uyghurs to free them, we all know it won't happen. The UK somehow has space for a million people from HK but there's no way on Earth they'd take 1% of that from Xinjiang province. Words are cheap. Just ask the Rohingyas how they are fairing in 2020.
AniseAbyss 6y ago
The CCP has two things that keeps them afloat: Chinese nationalism (and lets admit that the US really is out to get them at this point) and the economy. In 20 years China may very well be completely technologically independent rendering economic sanctions impotent and foreigners aren't going to be able to change any Chinese minds. Change will have to come from within the CCP, it always amused me that those HK protesters were talking more to the foreign press than trying to infiltrate the mainland bureaucracy.
- bArray 6y ago
  > Change will have to come from within the CCP And I'm guessing if the West and Russia had waited, the Nazis would have stopped putting people in concentration camps too? The CCP is exactly the same party that still covers up the 1989 Tienanmen Square Massacre - they can't even admit their previous failings. > it always amused me that those HK protesters were talking > more to the foreign press than trying to infiltrate the > mainland bureaucracy. It's hard to find any amusement in the HK situation at all. I am not aware of any scenario where the Communist dictatorship has listened to reason or has allowed the infiltration of it's mainland media. Their entire dictatorship is based on narrative - whilst it's positive, they stay in power over the people and army. Any deviation throws their rule into question, which is why they crush it at any cost. Edit: Grammar
  - throwr432345 6y ago
    > ...the Nazis would have stopped putting people in concentration camps too? It’s possible. After the Trail of Tears, I don’t think anyone would have believed the US would fight a Civil War and change so much. Give China a hundred years and who knows what will happen. Taiwan was a dictatorship until the late 90s. All China needs is that one leader to put things in motion.
bArray 6y ago
As fellow humans, there is no way to look at this situation and find something positive. The actions of the CCP need to be condemned. If you disagree with this point, we are fundamentally at odds. To those complaining about the anti-China narrative, it's the CCP (government) which are at fault, not the people. I think we should always make it very clear that it's not the Chinese people we take issue with and we are not condemning people based on race. As for actions taken against China and masquerading behind human-rights to justify them, I think it's okay to temporary align ourselves with those whose actions align with our ideology, even if the motivation is different. Life is about compromise and we're going to find very few allies if we will only work with people perfectly aligned with our own motivations.
- pdr2020 6y ago
  This is one of the most cleanly straightforward and mature posts I've read on HN in awhile. And quite practical too, particularly that last portion. Also, agreed.
- Synaesthesia 6y ago
  We ought to condemn China for it's human rights abuses. We should also condemn Israel for similar abuses, which it's doing out in the public. Keeping 2 million people in a virtual concentration camp in Gaza, with no hope.
- DarthGhandi 6y ago
  > To those complaining about the anti-China narrative, it's the CCP (government) which are at fault, not the people What would you say if the people widely supported it? Do you have evidence otherwise? Most mainlanders don't seem to care at all, that's pretty common knowledge and not some fear of speaking out issue. There's plenty of online forums where they anonymously express themselves and widely mock and criticise the government yet you won't find many being about Xinjiang province other than what the West is reporting on it. Have you spent much time on the Chinese internet? So to go back to my question, if it's actually the people who support this, do you consider them the enemy too? https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-11-30/why-many-in-china-support-beijings-xinjiang-and-hongkong-policy/11749148 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-11-30/why-many-in-china-sup...
edbob 6y ago
This is disgusting. Even in Ad Seg in a Texas prison, with the most violent schizophrenic inmates, you can't be handcuffed to a bed. To treat people like this based on their ethnicity is beyond the pale.
- 9999px 6y ago
  …that doesn't mean they don't. Pregnant women are routinely handcuffed while giving birth. If you want to see the peak in inhumane treatment of prisoners, go to any American prison south of the Mason–Dixon. Forced feeding, solitary confinement, executions, no foreign investigations (the US won't let the UN inspect American prisons), single-ingredient dietary plans as punishment – I've seen a lot of it working with a local prison abolitionist group for the last few years. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jan/24/shackled-pregnant-women-prisoners-birth https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jan/24/shackled-pre... https://www.pix11.com/news/coronavirus/rikers-inmate-with-covid-19-dies-while-handcuffed-to-a-bed https://www.pix11.com/news/coronavirus/rikers-inmate-with-co... https://www.aclu.org/blog/prisoners-rights/solitary-confinement/working-prison-i-witnessed-inhumane-conditions-solitary https://www.aclu.org/blog/prisoners-rights/solitary-confinem... https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/force-feeding-prison-supermax-torture/ https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/force-feeding-pris...

228 points by baylearn 6y ago

Arbalest 6y ago

How does one compile this and other evidence to present to expatriate Mainlanders? Is it even worth it?

abc-xyz 6y ago
You can use GitHub since it’s one of the few platforms (if not the only) that won’t be blocked in China and Microsoft is very unlikely to censor your repository. WeChat and other social media will of course shadowban messages containing a link to your repo (assuming it become popular enough to be noticed) but you can find creative ways to bypass the blacklisting (e.g. share link in a picture, with spaces in the link, forking the repo and sharing the forked one, etc.)
lma21 6y ago
Why do we think expats would be interested in this? What's the point anyway? Shouldn't we use this evidence instead to wake people up on the impacts of consumerism? Didn't we allow China to become what it is today due to how we buy things (all things are made in China today?) and how companies are constantly seeking to reduce costs and in some cases irresponsibly? What have we said to those companies? Disclaimer: I'm from Europe.
- Shivetya 6y ago
  This is the issue, it is not a matter of convincing the Chinese people their government is a problem it is a matter of convincing politicians in the Western world that China is truly a problem and pressuring corporations at stock holder meetings the same. Both need to be told the same thing, doing business in China is not acceptable. Corporations can be forced to change course by stock holders and national or state governments, governments can only be changed by pressure on the political parties in each. * I own both Tesla and Apple products, my statement on not buying an Apple product made in China needs to be expanded. I will not buy an Apple product or another Tesla until both leave China or the Chinese government changes direction; which I believe will only get worse if the believe the US government slides in weakness or non interventionist form
DarthGhandi 6y ago
Just follow the works of "leading Xinjiang expert" Adrian Zenz, who is repeatedly mentioned in this BBC article and given huge amounts of airtime by news orgs around the world. By his own account he can't speak any dialect or read Chinese but he is the goto expert on the matter. The main paper of his routinely quoted on by the media is published in the Journal of Political Risk. It mainly draws on Google translations of open source government data, there's strangely mentions of Bible verses in it. You might also be interested in his main job as an evangelic missionary teaching theological students, his position at an anti-communism foundation with dubious funding sources, an online phd from a university with a very similar name as Cambridge (his wiki page even looks to the actual Cambridge), his homophobic statements, other statements on how he is on a mission from God to "save" China and his published book: "Worthy to Escape: Why All Believers Will Not Be Raptured Before the Tribulation"* I'm not sure if it's worth debating this topic here on HN anymore because it's really becoming pointless and pure ideological propaganda where no one wants to debate in good faith (much like this article with basically nothing of substance, a guy got caught with weed and now has a call phone inside jail? Throw in some Adrian Zenz quotes and call it a day) Previous threads have people boldly proclaiming with no evidence whatsoever that "_millions_ of Uyghurs have been sterilised in the last year, what has any other country done even close to that?", leaving the absurdity of that behind, the responses with numerous sources and good faith debate are CSS censored into oblivion. This BBC article is propaganda, there's literally no any evidence whatsoever it's true, by their own words deep into the text. The public is being buttered up for yet another two decades of war, with Iraq WMD levels of proof of why it should happen and the populace lap it up again. The UN Human Rights Commissioner was invited over a year ago[1] to Xinjiang, she still hasn't gone, China is still asking her to come and hopefully she'll make it by the end of 2020 [2] Dozens of countries, many not even aligned with China have sent a joint letter to the UN [3] saying their investigations showed nothing like what is claimed in the Western media. Muslim countries are praising their efforts to control terrorism in the region.[3] Given your question, I'd ask a counter-question: Is it worth trying to convince people that's there's a lot more here than the headlines and it's far more about the challenge to US hegemony more than anything else? Why is everything presented always with some terrifyingly evil implication that's ends up generally quite mundane when you actually read into it. There's more satellites than ever before (you can academically launch a 0.5U cubesat over China for $12,000) and yet no one seems to have any satellite evidence of these 1.5 million people supposedly detained. I'm guessing they're in caves or something? Everything presented is flimsy and speaks to a much larger game, a game many tacitly acknowledge deep down and think the ends justify the means, lies or not. WMD's or not, many somehow justify that travesty to themselves in a strange post-purchase rationalisation. [1] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-rights-un-idUSKCN1TE12Q https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-rights-un-idUSKCN1T... [2] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-xinjiang-rights-idUSKCN20K1ZE https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-xinjiang-rights-idU... [3] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-xinjiang-rights-idUSKCN1U721X https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-xinjiang-rights-idU... *Available on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Worthy-Escape-Believers-Raptured-Tribulation/dp/144976908X https://www.amazon.com/Worthy-Escape-Believers-Raptured-Trib...

throwaway_4228 6y ago

> His uncle ... believes the video could galvanise public opinion in the same way that footage of the police treatment of George Floyd became a powerful symbol of racial discrimination in the US. The worrying thing is, protests like those for George Floyd won't be possible to happen within China, and even if they happen overseas, most people inside China won't even be aware of them. With the information control in place, long lasting suppression against minorities is one of the most terrifying things that can happen.

ghthor 6y ago
Also turns out that the uncut bodycam footage leaked yesterday isnt damming evidence of racial anything in the case of George Floyd. The body footage shows a standard arrest gone bad because the suspect was currently overdosing on fentanyl and having a panic attack. Hopefully some people start to feel a little bit embarrassed over there reactions and support of violent riots.

saeranv 6y ago

It's atrocious what the CCP under Xi is doing. And it's dismaying that other quasi-authoritarian countries are taking note. From Basil Rajapaksa (part of the political family in Sri Lanka responsible for various war crimes during the civil war): “I want our party to be a party like the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) and how they act... We have learned from many political parties in the world. The best two are the BJP and CCP.” From http://www.newswire.lk/2020/07/30/basil-wants-slpp-to-become-like-chinas-ccp-or-indias-bjp/ http://www.newswire.lk/2020/07/30/basil-wants-slpp-to-become....

mkbkn 6y ago

Downvote me for this - If you're using China-made products, you're responsible for the bugger balls of CCP, unethical/illegal selling of human organs and what not. They are no different from a radical terrorist organization.

tluyben2 6y ago
We are on HN and even here everyone will have issues identifying the make and even harder, the mining of the raw material in their phones, computers, lightbulbs. It is really not so easy to not buy from China. Maybe the end product is from Taiwan or Thailand or whatever, it still contains quite a lot of components from China. Which would make you what, a terrorist? It will take time and effort and yes, actual money (you will probably pay more) to change this. And we are on HN. Go talk to random people on the street about it.
lostlogin 6y ago
> If you're using China-made products, you're responsible What sort of limits do you have to this statement? You're posting this on a forum. Have you checked the country of origin of the servers and components used by the telecoms for their equipment between you and those servers?
- cycomanic 6y ago
  That's a straw man though. Nobody said you need to be perfect, however there are enough products where we know exactly where they made and still ignore the human rights violations, maybe that's a good start.
  - aaomidi 6y ago
    There is no ethical consumption under capitalism. Stop blaming individuals and expect more from your leadership.
  - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
    It seems to me that the original comment did indeed say you have to be perfect, and that you’re complicit with China’s worst abuses to the degree that you aren’t. I’m all in favor of boycotting China, but it seems extraordinarily counterproductive to say that anyone who’s not currently boycotting is a bad person.

chloerei 6y ago

The CCP imprisoned him and provided him a cell phone and internet so that he can communicate with the outside world... Well, if that also convinces you that I have nothing to say. This kind of propaganda from the West is something China cannot learn.

kart23 6y ago
I sincerely don't understand how people can just disappear for years and how you don't see anything wrong with that.
amscanne 6y ago
If it’s genuine, it might also be smuggled in? Also, cell phones tend to work anyway there’s cell coverage.
- beenBoutIT 6y ago
  Cellphones are in prisons everywhere. Visitors and inmates stow them up their asses and they can be bought inside. https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/zngpz4/prison-phones-that-go-up-your-bum https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/zngpz4/prison-phones-that...
  - aaomidi 6y ago
    You can look at #PrisonTikTok on... TikTok. You'll see a ton of footage from people in prison.
  - wonnage 6y ago
    This is fairly likely sent from his own phone - WeChat requires you to verify via various forms of 2-factor to log in on a new phone. He also states that it's own phone in the report.
  - chloerei 6y ago
    The management of Chinese prisons is not as chaotic as in the United States.
6y ago

beenBoutIT 6y ago

That loudspeaker broadcasting fun "facts" is an interesting way to reeducate captives. IIRC, the consensus among most Western experts is that this type of brainwashing isn't effective.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
dragonwriter 6y ago
Perhaps, just a thought, that is because it's not intended for brainwashing as that term is usually used, but simple behavior modification. The difference being that it's not about inducing belief in the content of propaganda, but constantly underlining what beliefs it is acceptable to demonstrate outward compliance with, while other avenues demonstrate the cost of non-compliance. The brainwashing doesn't happen to the people that are directly subject to it, but to the ones raised in an environment surrounded by people who, if they aren't true believers but are still around to be seen as models, have been cowed into behavioral conformance.
- raxxorrax 6y ago
  So it is just harmless nudging?
  - dragonwriter 6y ago
    I don't know where you got “harmless nudging” from that description of it as part of a system of violent coercion of the immediate subjects that is long-game brainwashing directed beyond them, but, no.
dirtyid 6y ago
It's just one component of indoctrination. China also has experiences with prior re-education and work movements. Xi himself was sent to Yunnan (Down to the Countryside Movement) the TLDR is he's a believer. Work camps work, especially on impressionable generations. That's how you create red guards, and why CCP has been trying to ram patriotic education down HK throats. I feel like west likes to reaffirm anecdotes from Chinese cabbies who bitch about the dark times, when in reality those times also forged many believers. People conflate failed economic reforms with failed indoctorination movements. China of that era had much better success re-engineering souls than development - the former merely requires rhetoric which is free, whereas the latter requires capital which is not. Neither words or capital are constraints anymore. Uyghurs also skew young being exempt from family planning policy, so reeducating the youngest generation will shift the entire regions sentiment in 10-20 years assuming the region receives commiserate economic development - hence the vocational training component.

armini 6y ago

If you're interested in this topic, I strongly suggest you all read The China Crisis By: James R. Gorrie It provides amazing insight into what's happening in the region & what we can expect to see over the coming years.

dgellow 6y ago
Could you share some of those insights?

throwaway_pdp09 6y ago

There's more than enough evidence now with or without this so I'll put it simply. Those who defend this abuse of an ethnic group are as complicit as the nazis of last century.

cycomanic 6y ago

I've been wondering how I could bring this up with the mainland Chinese I know. It's particularly difficult, because for some of them I'm in a supervisory/managerial role, but I don't want to put pressure on them, which would raise all sort of other ethical dilemmas and would likely not be effective. Anyone else can share experiences?

raxxorrax 6y ago
Why would you want to bring that up with them specifically? Not advocating that people should look the other way, but I wouldn't like superiors associating me with the deeds of the government of China. It might have been a good idea to actually support the protests for freedom in Hong Kong, but the "west" looked extremely weak here, laden with its own problems. edit: Just to clarify, I wouldn't bring up Hong Kong either...
dangus 6y ago
You should not.
aaomidi 6y ago
Just no.
throwaway_pdp09 6y ago
From a moral perspective, that's maybe one thing. From a legal it might be another - you might be construed as discriminating against them or harassing them based on their ethnicity, which is in fact valid; if they weren't chinese you wouldn't be discussing it with them. So in that sense I really would think carefully. In fact, don't. If they bring it up themselves, for or against that slightly changes things but frankly if they're supportive of the oppression then doing anything other than telling them "keep that opinion to yourself" is a minefield. Taking them on will most likely blow up in your face. (edit: no 'most likely' about it. It will). If they are against it and wish to discuss it with you and what to do, it's still a danger (I can't say why, more a feeling) and I'd advise them to contact/join an external group, or their MP/representative etc. and leave it at that. Shit like this discussed at work is bad news, I don't see how doing it can make things better. Anyone who disagrees and can make a better suggestion, I'm very willing to learn from. Edit: to those downvoters, I'm NOT saying don't discuss it, I'm saying don't do so at work. It is deeply unlikely anything helpful will come of for anyone, but it is very likely to damage your reputation or even lose you your job. Speak up! Sure, but in the right place and to those whose job it is to make a difference.

cycomanic 6y ago

John Oliver did an excellent piece on the situation of the uighur last week you can watch it here: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=17oCQakzIl8 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=17oCQakzIl8 I have to say he has really developed his show into an excellent mix of education and entertainment. I used to not like him very much (didn't like his type of humor), but I learn something every time I watch one of his shows, even if it covers a topic I'm already quite familiar with.

Chris2048 6y ago
I agree, used to be cheap digs / preaching to the choir style humour; Has become more informative.

aaomidi 6y ago

A recommended watch: https://youtu.be/WmId2ZP3h0c https://youtu.be/WmId2ZP3h0c This is what China wants you to see. Now think about what they don't watch you to see.

rvz 6y ago
This is what happens when you show this evidence to a Chinese Ambassador and diplomat. [0] [0] https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1284784810200838145 https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1284784810200838145
- throwaway9990 6y ago
  Those are prisoners.
  - panpanna 6y ago
    - those are prisoners - what did they do? - these criminals were caught red-handed praying to allah Edit: I am probably on some kind of list now
  - karxxm 6y ago
    If those are "only" prisoners, then it should be okay to let foreign inspectors in and talk to the "prisoners", shouldn't it?
    - iamjordanlittle 6y ago
      American prisons don't allow the UN in for inspections. (Maybe because the US was founded on slavery and never really got away from it so now relies on 2.2 million enslaved black people doing forced labor as a punishment for nonviolent drug crimes or inability to pay fines). https://www.reuters.com/article/us-rights-un-usa-torture-idUSKCN0WA2B8 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-rights-un-usa-torture-idU... https://news.un.org/en/story/2020/05/1063292 https://news.un.org/en/story/2020/05/1063292 https://www.thedailybeast.com/why-the-us-wont-let-the-un-look-inside-its-prisons https://www.thedailybeast.com/why-the-us-wont-let-the-un-loo... https://www.tasnimnews.com/en/news/2015/07/25/809496/united-nations-urges-washington-to-allow-it-to-inspect-us-prisons https://www.tasnimnews.com/en/news/2015/07/25/809496/united-...

rydre 6y ago

As a Muslim, I do not believe this. I still remember the Iraq war. No need to believe state media companies like BBC that never questioned the narrative in the "free" world. China will win hearts, propaganda will lose. No major Muslim country says anything about China. Should make you question everything the mainstream "free" world narrative says about China. Old boomer era propaganda wont work :D come up with something new lazy people.

cmarschner 6y ago
The BBC is not a state media company. According to Wikipedia, “The BBC is a statutory corporation, independent from direct government intervention, with its activities being overseen from April 2017 by the BBC Board and regulated by Ofcom.” This is clearly visible given that politicians keep arguing that it is biased towards the other side.
dragonwriter 6y ago
> No need to believe state media companies like BBC that never questioned the narrative in the "free" world. While not so much as, say, the Guardian, I remember the BBC questioning the US/UK government narrative, and indeed outright refuting it on a number of points. It's been quite a while, ISTR it was the BBC was one of the earlier (at least of the large number of news sources I was then following) carried the detailed breakdown of how the supposed WMD trailers were, and were known by both the British and American governments to be, systems for inflating and deploying weather balloons that had been sold to Iraq by the British government in the 1980s. > China will win hearts, propaganda will lose. The two statements are incompatible. You probably mean to replace the second with “Chinese propaganda will win.” > No major Muslim country says anything about China A lot of them are looking to China to counterbalance other regional threats, and others (notably Malaysia) have overtly expressed concern about China's actions towards the Uighurs but also explicitly said they can't take a stand on the issue because of the risk of provoking China. > Should make you question everything the mainstream "free" world narrative says about China. Why should the “free world” saying the same thing as Muslim countries that aren’t trying to seek Chinese support for geopolitical reasons, but louder because they aren't under meaningful immediate threat by China, make me question what they are saying?
6y ago

coliveira 6y ago

It is too bad that muslins are being mistreated in China, but at least they're not being bombarded to death on imperial wars to steal their oil, like it is being done by western countries. BBC should note this.

boomboomsubban 6y ago

As an American, as terrible as the Chinese actions against the Uighurs in Xinjiang are I still feel we should prioritize ending our nearly twenty year long war in neighboring Afghanistan. We've created millions of refugees, caused over a hundred thousand people to die, and committed numerous human rights violations. Yet the press coverage it gets mostly centers around how we dropped the "mother of all bombs" on them or how disgusting it is to hold peace talks with the Taliban in September. And for all the calls of "whataboutism" this is likely to raise, if we are unable to fix our own problems our attempts to fix China's are unlikely to benefit anyone.

dragonwriter 6y ago
> As an American, as terrible as the Chinese actions against the Uighurs in Xinjiang are I still feel we should prioritize ending our nearly twenty year long war in neighboring Afghanistan. I think it's a false choice, because there is nothing a citizen one can do for either that inhibits doing the other; they are complementary, rather than conflicting, goals.
- boomboomsubban 6y ago
  I disagree. Fixing the mistreatment of Afghanistan requires voting for politicians committed to changing US foreign policy. Changing China's policy involves staying the current course of using military and financial pressure to force countries into doing what we want.
coliveira 6y ago
You're completely right, but it's not going to stop the campaign against China, because human rights are not the issue. If it was, people would be out in the streets protesting all day against business done with Saudi Arabia. And people would also protest daily against the human rights violations perpetrated by the US around the world (the UN hasn't lift a finger about that either). The whole goal of the campaign is to raise popular support for a commercial campaign and maybe even a war against China.
- 6y ago

mieses 6y ago

The comparison of the situations of the Uighurs and the African Americans is straight out of the CCP propaganda playbook. The Soviet Union used to run stories about racism in the US.

auganov 6y ago

And don't forget what's happening to Falun Gong practitioners in China [0][1]. Although I can't be sure, from observation it seems to me like this information is still more heavily embargoed both in China and beyond. The persecution of Uighurs is getting China a lot of heat internationally but domestically it doesn't seem to be as disruptive. Demonizing Uighurs has been much easier given their different ethnicity, religion and effective confinement to a given region. It's easy for people to assume this will never affect them. With Falun Gong you're dealing with millions of members of the mainstream Chinese society who have been subject to all this and worse. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organ_harvesting_from_Falun_Gong_practitioners_in_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organ_harvesting_from_Falun_Go... [1] "Hard to Believe - Full Documentary - Now free to watch during coronavirus lockdown" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RR5o43zZSiA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RR5o43zZSiA

throwr432345 6y ago
Don’t forget that the Falun Gong newspaper, The Epoch Times, was banned from Facebook due to publishing conspiracy theories, https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/23/technology/facebook-ads-epoch-times.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/23/technology/facebook-ads-e...

tigerlily 6y ago

My Kazakh office mate is so angry over this. He swears there is going to be jihad.

DarthGhandi 6y ago
That was the problem in the beginning though, waging a separatist war. It's why all this started when a lot of Uyghurs came back from Syria after fighting for ISIS. Do you think more of those bombing campaigns, taking hostages at police stations and throwing hand grenades out of cars into busy market bazaars will improve the situation for the people of Xinjiang?
- kome 6y ago
  are you assuming they should try to find independence with democratic means... in autocratic china?
  - DarthGhandi 6y ago
    I'm saying it's not a good idea. Just like the Rohyingyas who the West cheered on and waxed lyrically about their treatment for years, when push comes to shove no one did a thing to either take in the refugees or pressure the tiny weak impoverished government to stop committing genocide against them and their rebellion. If the West won't stand up to Burma, what do you truly think they're going to do against nuclear armed China, the second largest economy on Earth? It's all well and good to have ideals, but don't pretend they apply in the real world of politics. Feel free to say your country will take in a hundred thousand Uyghurs to free them, we all know it won't happen. The UK somehow has space for a million people from HK but there's no way on Earth they'd take 1% of that from Xinjiang province. Words are cheap. Just ask the Rohingyas how they are fairing in 2020.

AniseAbyss 6y ago

The CCP has two things that keeps them afloat: Chinese nationalism (and lets admit that the US really is out to get them at this point) and the economy. In 20 years China may very well be completely technologically independent rendering economic sanctions impotent and foreigners aren't going to be able to change any Chinese minds. Change will have to come from within the CCP, it always amused me that those HK protesters were talking more to the foreign press than trying to infiltrate the mainland bureaucracy.

bArray 6y ago
> Change will have to come from within the CCP And I'm guessing if the West and Russia had waited, the Nazis would have stopped putting people in concentration camps too? The CCP is exactly the same party that still covers up the 1989 Tienanmen Square Massacre - they can't even admit their previous failings. > it always amused me that those HK protesters were talking > more to the foreign press than trying to infiltrate the > mainland bureaucracy. It's hard to find any amusement in the HK situation at all. I am not aware of any scenario where the Communist dictatorship has listened to reason or has allowed the infiltration of it's mainland media. Their entire dictatorship is based on narrative - whilst it's positive, they stay in power over the people and army. Any deviation throws their rule into question, which is why they crush it at any cost. Edit: Grammar
- throwr432345 6y ago
  > ...the Nazis would have stopped putting people in concentration camps too? It’s possible. After the Trail of Tears, I don’t think anyone would have believed the US would fight a Civil War and change so much. Give China a hundred years and who knows what will happen. Taiwan was a dictatorship until the late 90s. All China needs is that one leader to put things in motion.

bArray 6y ago

As fellow humans, there is no way to look at this situation and find something positive. The actions of the CCP need to be condemned. If you disagree with this point, we are fundamentally at odds. To those complaining about the anti-China narrative, it's the CCP (government) which are at fault, not the people. I think we should always make it very clear that it's not the Chinese people we take issue with and we are not condemning people based on race. As for actions taken against China and masquerading behind human-rights to justify them, I think it's okay to temporary align ourselves with those whose actions align with our ideology, even if the motivation is different. Life is about compromise and we're going to find very few allies if we will only work with people perfectly aligned with our own motivations.

pdr2020 6y ago
This is one of the most cleanly straightforward and mature posts I've read on HN in awhile. And quite practical too, particularly that last portion. Also, agreed.
Synaesthesia 6y ago
We ought to condemn China for it's human rights abuses. We should also condemn Israel for similar abuses, which it's doing out in the public. Keeping 2 million people in a virtual concentration camp in Gaza, with no hope.
DarthGhandi 6y ago
> To those complaining about the anti-China narrative, it's the CCP (government) which are at fault, not the people What would you say if the people widely supported it? Do you have evidence otherwise? Most mainlanders don't seem to care at all, that's pretty common knowledge and not some fear of speaking out issue. There's plenty of online forums where they anonymously express themselves and widely mock and criticise the government yet you won't find many being about Xinjiang province other than what the West is reporting on it. Have you spent much time on the Chinese internet? So to go back to my question, if it's actually the people who support this, do you consider them the enemy too? https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-11-30/why-many-in-china-support-beijings-xinjiang-and-hongkong-policy/11749148 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-11-30/why-many-in-china-sup...

edbob 6y ago

This is disgusting. Even in Ad Seg in a Texas prison, with the most violent schizophrenic inmates, you can't be handcuffed to a bed. To treat people like this based on their ethnicity is beyond the pale.

9999px 6y ago
…that doesn't mean they don't. Pregnant women are routinely handcuffed while giving birth. If you want to see the peak in inhumane treatment of prisoners, go to any American prison south of the Mason–Dixon. Forced feeding, solitary confinement, executions, no foreign investigations (the US won't let the UN inspect American prisons), single-ingredient dietary plans as punishment – I've seen a lot of it working with a local prison abolitionist group for the last few years. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jan/24/shackled-pregnant-women-prisoners-birth https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jan/24/shackled-pre... https://www.pix11.com/news/coronavirus/rikers-inmate-with-covid-19-dies-while-handcuffed-to-a-bed https://www.pix11.com/news/coronavirus/rikers-inmate-with-co... https://www.aclu.org/blog/prisoners-rights/solitary-confinement/working-prison-i-witnessed-inhumane-conditions-solitary https://www.aclu.org/blog/prisoners-rights/solitary-confinem... https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/force-feeding-prison-supermax-torture/ https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/force-feeding-pris...