13 ms·

EU launches probe into Google-Fitbit takeover

202 points by g_p 6y ago

bryanrasmussen 6y ago
Google's mission statement: To organize the world’s information and make it universally accessible and useful. Google concerning Fitbit: For its part, Google has explicitly denied its motivation is to control more data.
- naringas 6y ago
  that mission is as old as their former unofficial motto. I think it's an outdated statement.
  - bryanrasmussen 6y ago
    sure, probably the new mission statement is something like: To organize the world’s information and make it Alphabetically accessible and useful. but I still feel they have a lot of interest in organizing all the world's information.
- Dayshine 6y ago
  > For its part, Google has explicitly denied its motivation is to control more data. According to the article they made the same promise about Nest, but have begun "asking" users to merge their logs.
  - judge2020 6y ago
    *merge their logins Nest heavily prefers using a Google account now and integrates with using a Google Home's "household" members for giving access to your nest home.
    - kelnos 6y ago
      I just moved into a new house where the previous owner left behind (installed) a bunch of Nest Protect smoke alarms. I looked into putting them on my own account, but found two really lame issues: 1) They don't support GSuite accounts, and Google Home doesn't support linking other accounts when your main account is a GSuite account, and 2) They've shut down all API access to them (people still on old Nest accounts are grandfathered in... for now), so even if I did manage to set it up on a separate non-GSuite Google account, I wouldn't be able to monitor them with openHAB. I do like them, especially how it warns vocally shortly before it's about to go off, so I can preemptively temp-disable it before it deafens everyone just because I'm cooking and forgot to turn the hood fan on. And the motion-activated nightlight is perfect (there's one in my bedroom right near the entrance to the bathroom). But Google's product support strategy here really makes me uncomfortable, so I'll probably end up replacing them.
  - mcv 6y ago
    Didn't they also brick old Nest devices? The reasons not to want Google to take over Fitbit go beyond Google's control over data.
    - bryanrasmussen 6y ago
      right, maybe they'll make some sort of funny statement somewhere about Google is not in the habit of closing down services that many people rely on.
- 1vuio0pswjnm7 6y ago
  "We've been clear from the beginning that we will not use Fitbit health and wellness data for Google ads." The above statement from Google only refers to a specific subset of data that Fitbit collects: "health and wellness data". Moreover, it only refers to a single limitation: use for Google ads. Any non-health and wellness data can be used for any purpose. Any health and wellness data can be used for any purpose except Google ads. Consider an alernative statement such as: "We will only collect and use data for the purposes of providing the services, i.e., health and wellness services." This eliminates the loopholes. From Fitbit's current privacy policy, below is a list of the Fitbit data. As one can see, most of this data is arguably not "health and wellness data". When viewed in isolation, some of this data might seem routine and innocuous. However when combined with all the personal data Google has collected and obtained from other sources, including other Google devices or services a person might be using, the Fitbit data could be quite useful in profiling users. Of course, in the future Google Fitbit could collect more data than what is listed here. It depends on what Google chooses to do with the devices and the services going forward. 1. Account data (required:) name, email address, password, date of birth, gender, height, weight, and in some cases mobile telephone number. (optional:) profile photo, biography, country information, and community username. 2. Additional data (optional:) logs for food, weight, sleep, water, or female health tracking; (optional:) an alarm; (optional:) messages on discussion boards or to your friends on the Services. friends' email addresses, friends' social networking accounts, contacts in the contact list on person's mobile device. (in the case of a survey, contest, or promotion:) name, contact information, and message. 3. Payment and card data (for certain devices:) name, credit, debit or other card number, card expiration date, and CVV code. a token containing the last four digits of your card number and your card issuer's name and contact information (for purchases of Fitbit merchandise via their website:) shipping address 4. Live coaching data (if the person uses live coaching:) the plan, goals, and actions the person records with the coach, calendar events, communications with the coach, notes the coach records about the person, and other information submitted by the person or the coach. 5. Device data number of steps taken, distance traveled, calories burned, weight, heart rate, sleep stages, active minutes, and location. 6. Geolocation data precise geolocation data, including GPS signals, device sensors, Wi-Fi access points, and cell tower IDs. approximate location from your IP address. 7. Usage data usage or network activity information, for example, when the person views or searches content, installs applications or software, creates or logs into account, pairs device to account, or opens or interacts with an application on the Fitbit device. data about the devices and computers the person uses, including IP addresses, browser type, language, operating system, Fitbit or mobile device information, device and application identifiers, referring web page, pages visited, location (if settings allow), and cookie information. 8. Data from 3rd parties (if person connects FitBit account to an account on another service, e.g., Facebook or Google:) name, profile picture, age range, language, email address, and friend list. (optional:) exercise or activity data from another service. (in the case of employers and insurance companies that offer Fitbit Services to their employees and customers:) name, email address, or similar information (like a telephone number or subscriber ID)
chki 6y ago
>"We appreciate the opportunity to work with the European Commission on an approach that addresses consumers' expectations of their wearable devices" I mean, there is "corporate talk" but this is on another level.
- bryanrasmussen 6y ago
  The skills of a poet and the soul of.a weasel. I could do this job.
  - inetknght 6y ago
    > The skills of a poet and the soul of.a weasel. I could do this job. Not with that wild period ruining your grammar! Grammar is important to corporate doublespeak
    - bryanrasmussen 6y ago
      hmm, so it is time to clean all these specks off the monitor again - if it were done before I would have noticed the error. on edit: although, really, bad grammar is important to corporate doublespeak as it lends an element of plausible deniability when you get called in front of committee.
    - jjoonathan 6y ago
      Eh, it was probably just auto-correct being "helpful." System Preferences > Keyboard > Text > Add period with double-space (disable)
    - MrVitaliy 6y ago
      Thought it was for an informal dramatization effect. ... the soul of <pause> a weasel.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- elgenie 6y ago
  It’s actually fairly straightforward for this kind of thing. What it’s saying is that Google would desperately love to use the US‘ anti-trust standard of concentrated market power being a-OK as long as consumers aren’t obviously being hurt right that second rather than the (better) European standard of considering the prospects of competitors and potential competitors as well.
SilkRoadie 6y ago
I moved off of fitbit when the deal was announced. The volume of data google collects on users is terrifying. Glad to see this is getting looked at with more scrutiny.
- ocdtrekkie 6y ago
  I did too, but I haven't actually replaced it yet. I'd go back to Fitbit if the deal got officially killed.
- cycrutchfield 6y ago
  Genuinely curious, what personal consequences do you see for yourself due to Google acquiring Fitbit that would prompt you to avoid their devices? While I can understand the sentiment, this seems unnecessarily paranoid.
  - ocdtrekkie 6y ago
    In my case, I've spent over five years working on relieving Google of data about me. I'm not about to give them more. Paranoia claims suggest unfounded concerns but Google's misuse of private information is well known.
    - cycrutchfield 6y ago
      OCD trekkie, I don’t doubt that you have worked assiduously to remove your data from Google, but I am genuinely curious what actual harm you are trying to avoid here.
    - rrdharan 6y ago
      > Google's misuse of private information is well known. The accusations are certainly well known (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privacy_concerns_regarding_Google https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privacy_concerns_regarding_G...). Whether anything here constitutes misuse is a matter of both personal opinion (yours being very well known of course given your thoughts and comments about Google) as well as various laws but that doesn't make any of it a universally accepted truth or standard. In my case I'm much more worried about security than privacy, and far more willing to trade off the privacy (more targeted ads) for the increased security - Google's infrastructure is way more likely to be properly secured vs. Joe Random wearables startup, or even Garmin, as a recent example...
raverbashing 6y ago
Just some food for thought: Apple Watch captures heart data. As per local regulators, it cannot warn about certain conditions if their device/analysis wasn't cleared. But it doesn't mean they don't have the corresponding data. Edit: as per comments, Apple Watch data is encrypted. But fitbit data isn't
- kjakm 6y ago
  I thought all Health data was kept on-device with Apple platforms. Wasn't that the point of the secure enclave they introduced a good few years ago?
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - hadrien01 6y ago
    It seems that by default it's synced through iCloud: https://support.apple.com/HT204351 https://support.apple.com/HT204351 They say it's 'end-to-end encryption', but I don't see how that's possible?
    - easton 6y ago
      The data is encrypted and requires an on-device key to unlock it, Apple doesn't have the key[0]. If you lose a device, the data can also be decrypted via a device's passcode + 2FA. (Or, alternatively, without 2FA, you make up another key that is needed to access the data)[1] [0]: https://support.apple.com/guide/security/cloudkit-end-to-end-encryption-sec3cac31735/1/web/1 https://support.apple.com/guide/security/cloudkit-end-to-end... [1]: https://support.apple.com/guide/security/icloud-keychain-recovery-secdeb202947/1/web/1 https://support.apple.com/guide/security/icloud-keychain-rec...
      - hvidgaard 6y ago
        If they can decrypt the data if you lose the device, it by definition do not require an on-device only key. That is, Apple do have the key outside the device.
wdabney 6y ago
To what degree does the EC actually get a say in this? These are both American companies, so presumably the commission cannot block the acquisition. Wouldn't this be more like saying "if you do this, we will make things painful for you"? Am I completely missing something here?
- ocdtrekkie 6y ago
  Presumably Google and/or Fitbit operating within the European Union depends on compliance with European law. So choosing to disregard the EU's decision on the matter could blow apart a large part of an international business. My guess is Google/Fitbit could only proceed without the EU's approval if Fitbit stopped operating in Europe and deleted all Europeans' data.
  - dogma1138 6y ago
    So all the European consumers who bought a Fitbit can be screwed?
    - ocdtrekkie 6y ago
      Arguably: All European customers who bought a Fitbit are likely screwed anyways, Google has a poor history with supporting acquired product lines. While I am irritated about my data being acquired, personally, I'd also recommend against anyone buying a Fitbit while this acquisition is in flux, as Google might choose to terminate service to devices shortly post-acquisition anyways. And privacy loss is a harm as well. In short, this acquisition is already harming everyone, and the EU is trying to prevent the most consumer harm.
      - TheMblabla 6y ago
        *Google has a poor history with supporting acqui-hired product lines. I think most of the terminated services were fairly predictable (i.e. North)
        6y ago
onetimemanytime 6y ago
EU: Google must sell their EU operations to SAP or we'll ban them by September 15th.
stiray 6y ago
> /.../ Analysts suggested part of the attraction for Google was the fact that Fitbit had formed partnerships with several insururers /.../ This is THE most problematic part. I am trying to make people understand this match made in hell for last 20 years and it has finally started to happen. People will finally start to pay for their open sharing of their lifestyle and this is just the beginning. Really, really bad.
- zo1 6y ago
  I see this as a feature on some level. I know it sounds bad "google will have access to your fitness records and will sell to insurers that'll affect your premiums/approval, etc etc". But I would argue that our "insurance" models need to be brought in line with a all-data-is-logged world so that we can solve some of the issues. Maybe we as a society want to rather "subsidize" or "protect" unhealthy individuals by giving them money for higher premium insurance rather than hiding the actual cost of their healthcare by making it illegal for insurance companies to deny them based on their unhealthiness. To me that seems like a better, more explicit and transparent model that doesn't rely on physical reality being "hidden" from the people determining the cost of your insurance, even though we all know that unhealthy people cost more to insure because they have more health issues.
  - toyg 6y ago
    In modern markets, prices are overwhelmingly determined by demand rather than cost. People with more problems pay more to get insurance because they cannot afford not to. Insurance companies are not run at-cost. By giving them more excuses to scrutinize your lifestyle, you are just exposing yourself to the risk of them, one day, objecting to anything in it to raise prices on something you cannot afford not to pay.
- joshvm 6y ago
  There are already insurers which offer incentives to employees who exercise as tracked by their smartwatch. Vitality UK does this [1]. On the face of it, this doesn't seem terrible. It encourages people to stay active. So far it seems to be limited to an airmiles-type scheme where you can get bonuses like Amazon Prime for free if you meet certain fitness targets. With Vitality you would need 5.3 points a day (160/month) - you get 5 points for 10k steps so you actually have to exceed that every day. The problem with these systems is that the incentives are poor relative to the amount of effort you need to put in. Amazon Prime is nice, but it's valuing you exercising daily at around £8/month. If you can afford Vitality in the UK, either you're already well-off or you work for a company which can afford it. Why not offer free fitness club membership if you go regularly? The other issue is that tracking workouts sometimes fails, and you lose your bonus. That sucks and it's an easy way to lose people who can't be bothered to put in extra effort to make up it (for the sake of £8, for example). Probably we'll go to the automotive model (black box trackers). Some insurers will offer lower premiums to people who can demonstrate they're healthy, others might refuse people who don't submit their data, and others will charge a bit extra, but not require it. Be careful viewing this with a US lens. In Europe even in countries like Switzerland where you need private "public" health insurance there are strict minimum requirements. Insurers can't refuse you for pre-existing conditions, there are mandatory caps on premiums/deductibles and certain expensive treatments like cancer therapy must be included. Most people don't need health insurance because it's provided through the state. [1] https://www.vitality.co.uk/rewards/partners/active-rewards/ https://www.vitality.co.uk/rewards/partners/active-rewards/
purple_ferret 6y ago
I really don't see how Fitbit offers a 'data advantage' in superiority to something like Youtube
- XCSme 6y ago
  It's not superior, it's just a different type of data. With Fitbit you also get heart rate, active times (gym, sports), combined with the optional phone-enabled location you can know person X goes to gym Y twicer per week and spends 1 hour doing HIIT. You can also get data such as sleeping hours, sleep patterns, at what floor a person lives or works (if he climbs the stairs).
- rodgerd 6y ago
  You can't see how an advertiser might like to know how your heart rate, say, is affected by a particular advertisement?
mudil 6y ago
I did an interview with the FitBit reps at the last CES. And what they described to me was truly Orwellian. The company's big push is in the B2B offerings, all based on constant monitoring and the big data. Health insurance? Put FitBit on to monitor employees exercise levels and activities. Workplace safety? Put FitBit on. Heart rate data and arrhythmias? They already monitor and they are working on more. They even have a sleep score monitoring. And so on, and so forth... From our writeup: "So what are the benefits for companies and insurance firms? Fitbit Health Solutions (FHS) provides a platform that offers insights and guidance to make employees healthier. But the benefits go beyond health. The FHS platform can improve productivity, reduce on-job stress and accidents, detect causes of absenteeism, and improve job participation. The company has already released a premium membership subscription for enterprises and customers, especially since the release of its Versa 2 watch." https://www.medgadget.com/2020/02/fitbit-health-solutions-interview-with-amy-mcdonough-gm-and-senior-vp.html https://www.medgadget.com/2020/02/fitbit-health-solutions-in...
unnouinceput 6y ago
Quote: "In response, the tech giant said it would cooperate with the process. "We appreciate the opportunity to work with the European Commission on an approach that addresses consumers' expectations of their wearable devices," blogged Google's devices chief Rick Osterloh." Let me translate that, for those who don't read between lines yet, as I am fluent in corporate BS lately due to a project I'm involved. Here it goes the translation: "We're giving exactly zero f*s about your inquiry, and we will do 100% to actually BS you all the way to December, while making you look good in front of your European constituents. Also we'll definitely try to bribe anyone in your committee if, by mistake, they actually will try to do their job."
jameskraus 6y ago
Can they probe why this takeover hasn't resulted in a decent Google-branded smartwatch yet? I'd really love a competitor to the Apple watch for Android, but there isn't anything that really comes close.
kelnos 6y ago
As much as I am 100% skeptical of any Google acquisition (either they screw it up, neglect it, or shut it down), I was at least hoping that the Fitbit app would finally get Google Fit integration.

202 points by g_p 6y ago

Google's mission statement: To organize the world’s information and make it universally accessible and useful. Google concerning Fitbit: For its part, Google has explicitly denied its motivation is to control more data.

naringas 6y ago
that mission is as old as their former unofficial motto. I think it's an outdated statement.
- bryanrasmussen 6y ago
  sure, probably the new mission statement is something like: To organize the world’s information and make it Alphabetically accessible and useful. but I still feel they have a lot of interest in organizing all the world's information.
Dayshine 6y ago
> For its part, Google has explicitly denied its motivation is to control more data. According to the article they made the same promise about Nest, but have begun "asking" users to merge their logs.
- judge2020 6y ago
  *merge their logins Nest heavily prefers using a Google account now and integrates with using a Google Home's "household" members for giving access to your nest home.
  - kelnos 6y ago
    I just moved into a new house where the previous owner left behind (installed) a bunch of Nest Protect smoke alarms. I looked into putting them on my own account, but found two really lame issues: 1) They don't support GSuite accounts, and Google Home doesn't support linking other accounts when your main account is a GSuite account, and 2) They've shut down all API access to them (people still on old Nest accounts are grandfathered in... for now), so even if I did manage to set it up on a separate non-GSuite Google account, I wouldn't be able to monitor them with openHAB. I do like them, especially how it warns vocally shortly before it's about to go off, so I can preemptively temp-disable it before it deafens everyone just because I'm cooking and forgot to turn the hood fan on. And the motion-activated nightlight is perfect (there's one in my bedroom right near the entrance to the bathroom). But Google's product support strategy here really makes me uncomfortable, so I'll probably end up replacing them.
- mcv 6y ago
  Didn't they also brick old Nest devices? The reasons not to want Google to take over Fitbit go beyond Google's control over data.
  - bryanrasmussen 6y ago
    right, maybe they'll make some sort of funny statement somewhere about Google is not in the habit of closing down services that many people rely on.
1vuio0pswjnm7 6y ago
"We've been clear from the beginning that we will not use Fitbit health and wellness data for Google ads." The above statement from Google only refers to a specific subset of data that Fitbit collects: "health and wellness data". Moreover, it only refers to a single limitation: use for Google ads. Any non-health and wellness data can be used for any purpose. Any health and wellness data can be used for any purpose except Google ads. Consider an alernative statement such as: "We will only collect and use data for the purposes of providing the services, i.e., health and wellness services." This eliminates the loopholes. From Fitbit's current privacy policy, below is a list of the Fitbit data. As one can see, most of this data is arguably not "health and wellness data". When viewed in isolation, some of this data might seem routine and innocuous. However when combined with all the personal data Google has collected and obtained from other sources, including other Google devices or services a person might be using, the Fitbit data could be quite useful in profiling users. Of course, in the future Google Fitbit could collect more data than what is listed here. It depends on what Google chooses to do with the devices and the services going forward. 1. Account data (required:) name, email address, password, date of birth, gender, height, weight, and in some cases mobile telephone number. (optional:) profile photo, biography, country information, and community username. 2. Additional data (optional:) logs for food, weight, sleep, water, or female health tracking; (optional:) an alarm; (optional:) messages on discussion boards or to your friends on the Services. friends' email addresses, friends' social networking accounts, contacts in the contact list on person's mobile device. (in the case of a survey, contest, or promotion:) name, contact information, and message. 3. Payment and card data (for certain devices:) name, credit, debit or other card number, card expiration date, and CVV code. a token containing the last four digits of your card number and your card issuer's name and contact information (for purchases of Fitbit merchandise via their website:) shipping address 4. Live coaching data (if the person uses live coaching:) the plan, goals, and actions the person records with the coach, calendar events, communications with the coach, notes the coach records about the person, and other information submitted by the person or the coach. 5. Device data number of steps taken, distance traveled, calories burned, weight, heart rate, sleep stages, active minutes, and location. 6. Geolocation data precise geolocation data, including GPS signals, device sensors, Wi-Fi access points, and cell tower IDs. approximate location from your IP address. 7. Usage data usage or network activity information, for example, when the person views or searches content, installs applications or software, creates or logs into account, pairs device to account, or opens or interacts with an application on the Fitbit device. data about the devices and computers the person uses, including IP addresses, browser type, language, operating system, Fitbit or mobile device information, device and application identifiers, referring web page, pages visited, location (if settings allow), and cookie information. 8. Data from 3rd parties (if person connects FitBit account to an account on another service, e.g., Facebook or Google:) name, profile picture, age range, language, email address, and friend list. (optional:) exercise or activity data from another service. (in the case of employers and insurance companies that offer Fitbit Services to their employees and customers:) name, email address, or similar information (like a telephone number or subscriber ID)

chki 6y ago

>"We appreciate the opportunity to work with the European Commission on an approach that addresses consumers' expectations of their wearable devices" I mean, there is "corporate talk" but this is on another level.

bryanrasmussen 6y ago
The skills of a poet and the soul of.a weasel. I could do this job.
- inetknght 6y ago
  > The skills of a poet and the soul of.a weasel. I could do this job. Not with that wild period ruining your grammar! Grammar is important to corporate doublespeak
  - bryanrasmussen 6y ago
    hmm, so it is time to clean all these specks off the monitor again - if it were done before I would have noticed the error. on edit: although, really, bad grammar is important to corporate doublespeak as it lends an element of plausible deniability when you get called in front of committee.
  - jjoonathan 6y ago
    Eh, it was probably just auto-correct being "helpful." System Preferences > Keyboard > Text > Add period with double-space (disable)
  - MrVitaliy 6y ago
    Thought it was for an informal dramatization effect. ... the soul of <pause> a weasel.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
elgenie 6y ago
It’s actually fairly straightforward for this kind of thing. What it’s saying is that Google would desperately love to use the US‘ anti-trust standard of concentrated market power being a-OK as long as consumers aren’t obviously being hurt right that second rather than the (better) European standard of considering the prospects of competitors and potential competitors as well.

SilkRoadie 6y ago

I moved off of fitbit when the deal was announced. The volume of data google collects on users is terrifying. Glad to see this is getting looked at with more scrutiny.

ocdtrekkie 6y ago
I did too, but I haven't actually replaced it yet. I'd go back to Fitbit if the deal got officially killed.
cycrutchfield 6y ago
Genuinely curious, what personal consequences do you see for yourself due to Google acquiring Fitbit that would prompt you to avoid their devices? While I can understand the sentiment, this seems unnecessarily paranoid.
- ocdtrekkie 6y ago
  In my case, I've spent over five years working on relieving Google of data about me. I'm not about to give them more. Paranoia claims suggest unfounded concerns but Google's misuse of private information is well known.
  - cycrutchfield 6y ago
    OCD trekkie, I don’t doubt that you have worked assiduously to remove your data from Google, but I am genuinely curious what actual harm you are trying to avoid here.
  - rrdharan 6y ago
    > Google's misuse of private information is well known. The accusations are certainly well known (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privacy_concerns_regarding_Google https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privacy_concerns_regarding_G...). Whether anything here constitutes misuse is a matter of both personal opinion (yours being very well known of course given your thoughts and comments about Google) as well as various laws but that doesn't make any of it a universally accepted truth or standard. In my case I'm much more worried about security than privacy, and far more willing to trade off the privacy (more targeted ads) for the increased security - Google's infrastructure is way more likely to be properly secured vs. Joe Random wearables startup, or even Garmin, as a recent example...

raverbashing 6y ago

Just some food for thought: Apple Watch captures heart data. As per local regulators, it cannot warn about certain conditions if their device/analysis wasn't cleared. But it doesn't mean they don't have the corresponding data. Edit: as per comments, Apple Watch data is encrypted. But fitbit data isn't

kjakm 6y ago
I thought all Health data was kept on-device with Apple platforms. Wasn't that the point of the secure enclave they introduced a good few years ago?
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- hadrien01 6y ago
  It seems that by default it's synced through iCloud: https://support.apple.com/HT204351 https://support.apple.com/HT204351 They say it's 'end-to-end encryption', but I don't see how that's possible?
  - easton 6y ago
    The data is encrypted and requires an on-device key to unlock it, Apple doesn't have the key[0]. If you lose a device, the data can also be decrypted via a device's passcode + 2FA. (Or, alternatively, without 2FA, you make up another key that is needed to access the data)[1] [0]: https://support.apple.com/guide/security/cloudkit-end-to-end-encryption-sec3cac31735/1/web/1 https://support.apple.com/guide/security/cloudkit-end-to-end... [1]: https://support.apple.com/guide/security/icloud-keychain-recovery-secdeb202947/1/web/1 https://support.apple.com/guide/security/icloud-keychain-rec...
    - hvidgaard 6y ago
      If they can decrypt the data if you lose the device, it by definition do not require an on-device only key. That is, Apple do have the key outside the device.

wdabney 6y ago

To what degree does the EC actually get a say in this? These are both American companies, so presumably the commission cannot block the acquisition. Wouldn't this be more like saying "if you do this, we will make things painful for you"? Am I completely missing something here?

ocdtrekkie 6y ago
Presumably Google and/or Fitbit operating within the European Union depends on compliance with European law. So choosing to disregard the EU's decision on the matter could blow apart a large part of an international business. My guess is Google/Fitbit could only proceed without the EU's approval if Fitbit stopped operating in Europe and deleted all Europeans' data.
- dogma1138 6y ago
  So all the European consumers who bought a Fitbit can be screwed?
  - ocdtrekkie 6y ago
    Arguably: All European customers who bought a Fitbit are likely screwed anyways, Google has a poor history with supporting acquired product lines. While I am irritated about my data being acquired, personally, I'd also recommend against anyone buying a Fitbit while this acquisition is in flux, as Google might choose to terminate service to devices shortly post-acquisition anyways. And privacy loss is a harm as well. In short, this acquisition is already harming everyone, and the EU is trying to prevent the most consumer harm.
    - TheMblabla 6y ago
      *Google has a poor history with supporting acqui-hired product lines. I think most of the terminated services were fairly predictable (i.e. North)
      - 6y ago

onetimemanytime 6y ago

EU: Google must sell their EU operations to SAP or we'll ban them by September 15th.

stiray 6y ago

> /.../ Analysts suggested part of the attraction for Google was the fact that Fitbit had formed partnerships with several insururers /.../ This is THE most problematic part. I am trying to make people understand this match made in hell for last 20 years and it has finally started to happen. People will finally start to pay for their open sharing of their lifestyle and this is just the beginning. Really, really bad.

zo1 6y ago
I see this as a feature on some level. I know it sounds bad "google will have access to your fitness records and will sell to insurers that'll affect your premiums/approval, etc etc". But I would argue that our "insurance" models need to be brought in line with a all-data-is-logged world so that we can solve some of the issues. Maybe we as a society want to rather "subsidize" or "protect" unhealthy individuals by giving them money for higher premium insurance rather than hiding the actual cost of their healthcare by making it illegal for insurance companies to deny them based on their unhealthiness. To me that seems like a better, more explicit and transparent model that doesn't rely on physical reality being "hidden" from the people determining the cost of your insurance, even though we all know that unhealthy people cost more to insure because they have more health issues.
- toyg 6y ago
  In modern markets, prices are overwhelmingly determined by demand rather than cost. People with more problems pay more to get insurance because they cannot afford not to. Insurance companies are not run at-cost. By giving them more excuses to scrutinize your lifestyle, you are just exposing yourself to the risk of them, one day, objecting to anything in it to raise prices on something you cannot afford not to pay.
joshvm 6y ago
There are already insurers which offer incentives to employees who exercise as tracked by their smartwatch. Vitality UK does this [1]. On the face of it, this doesn't seem terrible. It encourages people to stay active. So far it seems to be limited to an airmiles-type scheme where you can get bonuses like Amazon Prime for free if you meet certain fitness targets. With Vitality you would need 5.3 points a day (160/month) - you get 5 points for 10k steps so you actually have to exceed that every day. The problem with these systems is that the incentives are poor relative to the amount of effort you need to put in. Amazon Prime is nice, but it's valuing you exercising daily at around £8/month. If you can afford Vitality in the UK, either you're already well-off or you work for a company which can afford it. Why not offer free fitness club membership if you go regularly? The other issue is that tracking workouts sometimes fails, and you lose your bonus. That sucks and it's an easy way to lose people who can't be bothered to put in extra effort to make up it (for the sake of £8, for example). Probably we'll go to the automotive model (black box trackers). Some insurers will offer lower premiums to people who can demonstrate they're healthy, others might refuse people who don't submit their data, and others will charge a bit extra, but not require it. Be careful viewing this with a US lens. In Europe even in countries like Switzerland where you need private "public" health insurance there are strict minimum requirements. Insurers can't refuse you for pre-existing conditions, there are mandatory caps on premiums/deductibles and certain expensive treatments like cancer therapy must be included. Most people don't need health insurance because it's provided through the state. [1] https://www.vitality.co.uk/rewards/partners/active-rewards/ https://www.vitality.co.uk/rewards/partners/active-rewards/

purple_ferret 6y ago

I really don't see how Fitbit offers a 'data advantage' in superiority to something like Youtube

XCSme 6y ago
It's not superior, it's just a different type of data. With Fitbit you also get heart rate, active times (gym, sports), combined with the optional phone-enabled location you can know person X goes to gym Y twicer per week and spends 1 hour doing HIIT. You can also get data such as sleeping hours, sleep patterns, at what floor a person lives or works (if he climbs the stairs).
rodgerd 6y ago
You can't see how an advertiser might like to know how your heart rate, say, is affected by a particular advertisement?

mudil 6y ago

I did an interview with the FitBit reps at the last CES. And what they described to me was truly Orwellian. The company's big push is in the B2B offerings, all based on constant monitoring and the big data. Health insurance? Put FitBit on to monitor employees exercise levels and activities. Workplace safety? Put FitBit on. Heart rate data and arrhythmias? They already monitor and they are working on more. They even have a sleep score monitoring. And so on, and so forth... From our writeup: "So what are the benefits for companies and insurance firms? Fitbit Health Solutions (FHS) provides a platform that offers insights and guidance to make employees healthier. But the benefits go beyond health. The FHS platform can improve productivity, reduce on-job stress and accidents, detect causes of absenteeism, and improve job participation. The company has already released a premium membership subscription for enterprises and customers, especially since the release of its Versa 2 watch." https://www.medgadget.com/2020/02/fitbit-health-solutions-interview-with-amy-mcdonough-gm-and-senior-vp.html https://www.medgadget.com/2020/02/fitbit-health-solutions-in...

unnouinceput 6y ago

Quote: "In response, the tech giant said it would cooperate with the process. "We appreciate the opportunity to work with the European Commission on an approach that addresses consumers' expectations of their wearable devices," blogged Google's devices chief Rick Osterloh." Let me translate that, for those who don't read between lines yet, as I am fluent in corporate BS lately due to a project I'm involved. Here it goes the translation: "We're giving exactly zero f*s about your inquiry, and we will do 100% to actually BS you all the way to December, while making you look good in front of your European constituents. Also we'll definitely try to bribe anyone in your committee if, by mistake, they actually will try to do their job."

jameskraus 6y ago

Can they probe why this takeover hasn't resulted in a decent Google-branded smartwatch yet? I'd really love a competitor to the Apple watch for Android, but there isn't anything that really comes close.

kelnos 6y ago

As much as I am 100% skeptical of any Google acquisition (either they screw it up, neglect it, or shut it down), I was at least hoping that the Fitbit app would finally get Google Fit integration.