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> It’s insane to me that we don’t just make masks 100% mandatory when you’re outside your own home. It sounds reasonable in closed spaces (like in the examples
by yodsanklai 6y ago
> It’s insane to me that we don’t just make masks 100% mandatory when you’re outside your own home.
It sounds reasonable in closed spaces (like in the examples you gave). But I'm reluctant to wear a mask outside in low-density area (I would if there were strong evidence it made any difference).
> man with a dry cough, that was later diagnosed to be COVID, wore a mask on the long flight from Wuhan to Toronto, had extended/close contact with 25 people, but he was wearing a mask, and none of them contracted it from him [1]
I'm nitpicking here, but by itself it doesn't sound as a strong argument in favour of masks. If I understand correctly, without any containment measures, the propagation rate (R0) of the virus is around 3. Which means that a sick person is going to contaminate on average 3 other people. I suppose the average person can have quite a lot of interactions (starting with their family, colleagues) during the time they are contagious. So even without mask, it's not obvious the guy in the plane would have infected anyone else.
That being said, I agree with you that masks should be mandatory (in closed spaces).
- MengerSponge 6y agoOutside in low density areas appears to be fairly safe, but it's a behavioral problem, and if masks are mandated and normalized, this thing'll be over in a jiffy and we can meet down at the pub for a pint. R0 is an ensemble average, not a useful metric for any given person. It's likely that transmission is wildly variable, and that superspreading events are major contributors to transmission. Basically, households slowly pass the disease between each other, and occasionally one person manages to get a shitload of people outside their household sick. Masks appear to be extremely effective at stopping the superspreading events, which has a huge effect on R0.
- xur17 6y ago> It sounds reasonable in closed spaces (like in the examples you gave). But I'm reluctant to wear a mask outside in low-density area (I would if there were strong evidence it made any difference). I agree with this. 100% mandatory outside of your home would mean I would have to wear a mask while running, which seems unnecessary when I see a grand total of 1 or 2 people on my entire run (and cross the street to keep plenty of distances between us). This is one danger of applying a solution for 100% of everyone, everywhere without taking into account any nuances. That said, mandating masks indoors + outdoors when you can't maintain 6 feet of distance seems like a no brainer. Perhaps in higher density areas it could be worth requiring them 100% of the time, even outdoors, but I'd like to see the data first.
- petersellers 6y agoI generally agree, and I personally don't wear a mask outside when I walk in my neighborhood for this exact reason (very low density, plenty of space). With that said, it appears that if there is any gray area in the rules then the general population is almost sure to abuse them. In this case, I think it's better to err on the side of caution and make it 100% mandatory so there is absolutely no gray area.
- gpanders 6y agoI mentioned this in another comment already, but this is what’s being done in New Mexico. The mask order was extended to, basically, “wear a mask if you’re outside your house”. This includes exercising outside. Personally, I find that part a bit excessive; however, my understanding is that it’s meant to counter exactly what you pointed out: as long as there are any exceptions, some people will reason their way out of compliance. A 100% mandate is just easier and simpler to follow. I now wear a mask when walking in my neighborhood after I noticed other people wearing masks too. Chalk it up to peer pressure I guess, but to me it’s a very small price to pay if it helps enforce mask-wearing in other contexts.
- ghaff 6y agoOne of the problems with "masks should be required" is that it lacks nuance. Around where I live--exurbs of a major NE US city--they're required and pretty much universally used in stores as far as I can see. However, outside, it's very mixed and personally it seems pretty reasonable. But I'm sure to some people it seems as if people aren't being reasonable. Certainly I'm not wearing by myself in the woods. But perhaps that's seen poor practice by some. No idea what things look like in the city. Perhaps I'd find it uncomfortable.
- gbrown 6y agoMost of the mask orders I've seen take that into account though, requiring masks indoors and in outdoor spaces where social distancing is not possible or enforced.
- latchkey 6y agoAt this point, I don't care about the effectiveness. It is a sign of respect for those of us who have lost family and friends as a result of this global pandemic with what will amount to millions dead over the next 1-2 years. It is a very visible sign that shows that you care about yourself and the people around you.
- tetrometal 6y agoI'm very, very pro-mask; I'm optimistic that getting people to wear them could drop R0 << 1 and bring an end to this. That said, it seems unethical to me to mandate (read: enforce with fine/imprisonment) it for the purpose of ... what sounds like virtue signaling?
- gremlinsinc 6y agoBetter idea, use positive reinforcement. Walmart, et al raise prices 15%. Mask wearers get 15% off. Everyone else pays full-price.
- baggy_trough 6y agoSorry, illegal due to the ADA since some people can't wear masks.
- arkitaip 6y agoLike who?
- gremlinsinc 6y agoFalse. If a store makes accomodations, then you cannot use the ADA defense. Currently >95% of stores (maybe higher) have curbside pickup, so this excuse is dead in the water.
- latchkey 6y agoWouldn't have to mandate it, if people would just do it...
- maedla 6y agowhy are you reluctant?
- ogre_codes 6y ago> It sounds reasonable in closed spaces (like in the examples you gave). But I'm reluctant to wear a mask outside in low-density area (I would if there were strong evidence it made any difference). It gets weird because there are many non-closed spaces which are very crowded. Imagine a concert, or the boardwalk.