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Tesla Model 3 Driver Has License Suspended After Adjusting Wipers via Touchscree
- contravariant 6y agoThe way this title suddenly cuts off makes it seem as if OP was doing something similar, but the missing n after Touchscree is probably just a typo.
- akerl_ 6y agoIt’s worth noting that the driver didn’t have their license suspended for adjusting their wipers. They had their license suspended because they crashed their car while adjusting their wipers. In the court’s opinion, interacting with the touchscreen distracted the driver sufficiently to lead to the crash. The driver’s defense (that the touchscreen is a safety device because it also shows the speedometer) seems hard to fathom. Clearly if the driver was watching YouTube on the touchscreen, the fact that it also shows their speed wouldn’t have been relevant. It seems more concerning that Tesla’s wiper controls can’t be operated in manual mode w/o visual attention from the driver. I own a Model 3, and I don’t think I could reasonably change the wiper settings w/o looking at the screen, despite knowing where the UI options are and their general layout.
- ceejayoz 6y ago“It seems more concerning that Tesla’s wiper controls can’t be operated in manual mode w/o visual attention from the driver.“ The article says this: > the Tesla Model 3 is equipped with an analog wiper switch located on the wheel like most vehicles
- akerl_ 6y agoThat’s technically true but in the least useful way in practice. The wiper switch on the left stalk has 2 behaviors: if you tap the button, the wiper swings a single time. If you hold the button, the wiper and wiper fluid activate for a handful of sweeps. The analog stalk doesn’t offer any other wiper controls, like the ability to modify wiper speed or enable/disable continuous wiper functionality. I’m not sure why the article includes that line without clarifying the specific nature of that interface.
- SilasX 6y agoWhy would you design it that way? I mean, if you’re going to have a manual wiper control anyway, why make it so limited compared to what every other car can do? This obsession with touchscreens over ones you can control by feel without looking[1] ... it’s ridiculous. [1] sorry, anyone know the standard term for that?
- mcherm 6y ago> anyone know the standard term for that? I'm not sure what the standard term is either. I frequently use the term "tactile controls" to indicate controls that can be operated without looking at them. For what it's worth, I think essentially ALL controls intended to be used while in motion in a car ought to be "tactile controls" by that definition -- the operator's gaze is NOT available while operating the vehicle. (I'm OK if configuring bluetooth is done over a touchscreen, but NOT if turning on the radio or the windshield wipers is done that way.)
- akerl_ 6y agoAs somebody who is obviously not knowledgeable about why Tesla did it that way, but somebody who does own/drive a Model 3, I can only offer my conjecture: It makes the controls simpler in a way that makes the parts and assembly cheaper. The Model 3 seems like Tesla tried very hard to streamline (read: cut corners) anywhere they reasonably could as part of lowering the cost to manufacture the car, in order to hit a more reasonable price point. The stalks already have a known history of breakage, many folks have had to have them replaced in relatively young Model 3s. I suspect somebody at Tesla HQ decided that having additional twisting elements or more control surfaces on them would have further increased cost. Another potential rationale is that, from Tesla’s vantage point, those controls are vestigial. The automatic wiper sensor should handle wiper activation, rendering the stalk controls unnecessary. In practice, that sensor is still in need of further tuning. But if Tesla’s goal is to build the car of the future, it’s possible they’re willing to front-run the software in picking hardware choices.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- Johnny555 6y agoIf German drivers aren't legally allowed to use the touchscreen for basic driving tasks like adjusting the windshield wiper setting, then whatever German regulatory agency that let Tesla sell in Germany should not have allowed the car to be sold. (and if adjusting the wipers takes so much attention that it led to the crash, then arguably the car shouldn't be sold anywhere with that UI) That's the thing I dislike the most about Tesla, that everything is run by the touchscreen. They should sell a modular dashboard gauge and button set for those that want real controls and gauges.
- dogma1138 6y agoBecause most car manufacturers put analog controls even if they are more limited and you have a warning in the touch controls or the manual that the screen can only be operated by a passenger or when the car is stationary.
- contravariant 6y agoWhile I can see your point it's possible that Tesla might have skirted the rules a bit by adding a lever that does activate the windshield wipers but doesn't allow you to control their speed. I don't understand this choice either but it's easy to imagine that legislators didn't predict someone would try this either. Presumably the legally correct way would be to activate the windshield wipers when necessary and to pull over if you want to adjust their speed. Similar to how you're supposed to use GPS.
- Johnny555 6y agoWhen you need to set a new destination in your GPS, you can wait until you get off at the next exit, but when you've started your trip in light rain and have your wipers on low, when it suddenly starts raining harder, I don't see how it's reasonable to expect a driver to wait until he can stop safely before he set's the wipers on "high".
- akdor1154 6y agoWould be great if regulation could step in and enforce some rules around what we all know already - touchscreen controls in a car are vastly inferior to, and more dangerous than, physical knobs.
- humblebee 6y agoA lite touch to anything shouldn't activate something in a car. Drivers are effectively blind to anything else in the car while driving and controls should be design in such a way that the use of the drivers eyes are not required. Keep the drivers eyes on the road.
- userbinator 6y agoIt is odd that this area got neglected, since one of the first things the FMVSS in the US mandated was the PRNDL shift pattern for automatic transmissions; one of the other patterns widely used at the time, PNDLR, was causing a lot of accidental shifts into reverse.
- cek 6y agoEdit: I obviously have not had enough coffee today. Nevermind.
- dagurp 6y agoIt can't be long until we see regulations about driver interfaces. Certain operations should be available without distraction of menus
- jtbayly 6y agoAnd even when the screen UI crashes.
- imwm 6y ago"It didn't help that he crashed while doing so." ...is the subtitle. Might have been nice to say in the headline, which is clickbait.
- csours 6y agoComing from an American, I'm kind of shocked that a single person accident (as I understand it) wound up in court.
- dogma1138 6y agoPretty common around the world, especially when you have universal health care. 1) you’ve committed a traffic violation. 2) you’ve damaged property and caused a casualty even if it’s only one being yourself. You won’t always end up in court but if the accident was due to a a severe failure on your part (and wasn’t unavoidable) for example drunk driving or using a cell phone it doesn’t matter if you hit a tree or another car as far as the law goes.
- jedberg 6y ago> especially when you have universal health care. This is the key right here. It's the state trying to recoup their costs from you.
- refurb 6y agoThis doesn’t sound different than the US at all. If you get a DUI or are negligent and cause injury or accident you’ll end up in court.
- csours 6y agoI've been in several single person accidents (all of them over 10 years ago, I was a super crappy driver as a teenager) that neither the police nor the courts nor insurance ever found out about
- refurb 6y agoI’m assuming it would need to hit some threshold of property damage or injury to get on the cops radar. If you just roll your own car and get it towed away, I wouldn’t be surprised the cops never find out. Slam into someone’s house and it’s harder to cover up!
- goshx 6y agoLet’s pretend nobody has ever crashed their non-Tesla vehicles while distracted with controls. Wake me up when this becomes actual news and not a single anecdote.
- whoisjuan 6y agoI think the debate here is whether or not, Tesla's approach to their final user experience deteriorates the safety of the vehicle. In this particular case the Wipers speed seems to be controlled from the screen, while in other cars speed can be controlled with the side lever without taking your eyes out of the road. Those small and minor details can make the difference in at least a small percentage of accidents.
- goshx 6y agoOk, but this is still about one single case. It’s like people who have no experience with Tesla vehicles hate the company for whatever reason and are looking for validation of their judgement.
- modzu 6y agoi agree it should be a crime but charged against tesla not the driver
- kevin_b_er 6y agoThis is an example of how there are just some controls that must be tactile in a moving vehicle. You have to be able to use them w/o staring at a screen. And activating the wipers in the event of sudden rain seems like something that should've had controls. Even then, I find on my car I must adjust the windshield wipers to conditions when driving through rain. If the rain gets heavier, then I turn them to a higher setting. This isn't possible with a Tesla? There's a physical control on it, but it seems to only do the fluid spray or a single swipe? I get the big dash touchscreen yields software benefits through OTA, but a certain level of tactile is needed as long as there's a human driving. Otherwise you get an incident like this where you can't safely engage the wipers.
- boring_twenties 6y agoAnother thing that surprised me is that in a Tesla, of all things, one has to intervene in any way to turn on the wipers? Why wouldn't they just turn on automatically when it's raining? My entry-level BMW from 2008 does this, as well as automatically adjust the speed depending on how hard it's raining. The OEM rain sensor part costs $230, and this is not a brand known for undercharging for parts.
- Waterluvian 6y agoI wonder what pilots think about the Model 3 interface. I’m not one but I love all the buttons and knobs in and around my wheel. The 2020 Forester has a freakish number of them. But it lets me do so much without taking my hands off the wheel or eyes far from the dash if at all.
- chrstphrknwtn 6y agoDo you mean aircraft pilots? Or do you mean regular drivers of Tesla cars?
- fortran77 6y agoI wasn't sure if the budget "3" has the same controls the full-featured Tesla does, but it does (according to the article). There was no reason to use the touchscreen to turn on the wipers.
- mehrdada 6y agoThis is not true. On the S wiper speed is adjustable at the steering wheel as well as enable/disable. On the 3 you can just activate it or sprinkle water but not adjust the wiper speed.
- fortran77 6y agoThanks. Tesla really should have picked a different brand for the "3" (like Lexus / Avalon). Otherwise they'll dilute their luxury line.
- mehrdada 6y agoI don't know. I have driven all Teslas (except the Y) at length, and I think I prefer the simplicity of the 3 UI overall (wiper controls on cars need trial and error to figure out esp if you change the car you drive often). This seems to be a one-off distraction issue blamed on this particular setting, but I seriously doubt that's a significant concern beyond the general "some rarely used controls are on the touchscreen" distraction problem, especially since the car has a pretty robust Autopilot assistant system that allows for a moment of looking at the screen.
- lmilcin 6y agoI don't know... screens require you to actually look at them to be able to do anything while mechanical controls can be designed to be tactile and to not require the driver to be distracted/focused on the control. I drive 2014 Skoda Rapid and every single control I really need for operating the car is tactile and operated through muscle memory. Muscle memory effectively lets me offload my visual and conscious parts of brain. For example, when driving in rain I just manually activate wipers when I need them, except for heavy rain. I don't move my eyes to operate it, it does not occupy my conscious brain, it just becomes second nature the same way other things become second nature when driving a car. I don't focus on it. I see something interesting I want to see better, I just run wipers without ever thinking about it the same way I don't have to remember to move my right and left leg to walk straight. I can't imagine having to move my eyes and my hand at the same time to start fiddling with a screen and it just doesn't matter how good the UI is.
- boring_twenties 6y agoTouchscreens in cars should have been made illegal years ago. Manufacturers should be forced to recall and fix every single car that has one, even if it bankrupts them. This is such an obviously egregiously stupid thing to have ever implemented that they fully deserve to be on the hook for fixing it.
- Covzire 6y agoAnytime I change the AC or point a vent in another direction or grab something from the glove box I have to look away momentarily. Why are touchscreens so much more distracting for basic controls?
- crote 6y agoDo you really, though? I'd bet you don't need to look at the controls to use your turn signals or parking brake. Pretty much every traditional control, including AC and radio, is designed for use by feel only: you jab your hand roughly in the right direction, find the control by feel (perhaps remembering that volume is the right dial, temperature is the left), and adjust it all without looking at it. If you remember the ordering of the controls - which you automatically will after spending more time using them - you'll be able to blindly use them. The problem with touch screens is that, even if you know the exact location of the control, you still must look at the screen to find the exact location. You can't "walk" your finger over the touch screen and press the second button from the left. You can't use any form of muscle memory. Sure, you must still look at the AC if you want to set it exactly at 25 degrees, but nobody does that anyway. You usually just want it to be a little bit cooler, so you twist the knob a tick or two counter-clockwise. And grabbing stuff from the glovebox? Personally, I'd consider that highly irresponsible. You simply shouldn't be doing that wile driving. Wait until you're stopped for a traffic light or something.
- caf 6y agoI wonder if haptic feedback as seen in mobile phones could make touch screens usable by feel only.
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- chrstphrknwtn 6y agoThe huge central touchscreen in Tesla cars look hilariously ill-conceived. Perhaps they’re useful for some things, but if I was given the task of designing the most distraction-prone addition to a car interior, it would be a big screen pointed toward the driver.
- kentlyons 6y agoOr just use voice to set the wiper speed - completely eyes free
- sandworm101 6y agoA touchscreen for the wiper control? Really? I'm reminded of the early attempts at "smart" homes. After you have stumbled around in the dark a few time you learn to appreciate the simple utility of a mechanical switch.
- giomasce 6y agoThe words "driver", "license" and "crash" have two sets of meaning in software and cars domains. Tesla intersects both domains. Took me a while to gather what was happening. At the beginning I thought the person driving the car sued Tesla because the LCD driver crashed, and Tesla got its license to sell cars in Germany suspended.
- _nalply 6y agoHow about a hack with a DIY button? Glue the button somewhere comfortable and let the button talk to the car. Impossible? Shmimpossible!
- Gravityloss 6y agoYou could have the best of both worlds - flexible but tactile controls if you had a small screen on every button. This has been done in a keyboard years ago: https://www.artlebedev.com/optimus/maximus/ https://www.artlebedev.com/optimus/maximus/