30 ms·

Cardiovascular MRI in Patients Recently Recovered from Covid-19

83 points by pama 6y ago

claudeganon 6y ago
>CMR revealed cardiac involvement in 78 patients (78%) and ongoing myocardial inflammation in 60 patients (60%), independent of preexisting conditions, severity and overall course of the acute illness, and time from the original diagnosis. If damage to people’s hearts proves long term or if even mild COVID cases predispose people to heart problems later on, the knock on effects for countries that chose to let the pandemic run rampant are going to be horrendous.
helsinkiandrew 6y ago
I’ve never understood why the long term effects of Covid-19 have seemingly been ignored by the people who say this isn’t a big deal, deaths aren’t significant, and it mostly effects old people. Normal flu can cause long term cardiovascular effects in some people and Swine flu even more so. Given the severity of the effects of Covid-19 on peoples lungs, serious long term seems likely.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- claudeganon 6y ago
  >isn’t a big deal, deaths aren’t significant, and it mostly effects old people. The pattern here is denial, for which dismissing long term consequences is just a continuation.
  - calvinmorrison 6y ago
    It's hard to be sympathetic when you are 27, out of work for 6 months, and can't see friends because people in nursing homes are dying of a corona class virus effecting the elderly.
    - CamperBob2 6y ago
      At the same time, it's hard to be headstrong and nonchalant when it's obvious that nobody really knows what's going on with this thing.
    - drewcon 6y ago
      No one said it’s supposed to be easy.
      - calvinmorrison 6y ago
        It's not easy and nobody seems to give a hoot. Give up your prime money making years for $600 a week.
        tonyedgecombe 6y ago
        Give up your prime money making years Lockdowns only started four months ago.
    - Johnjonjoan 6y ago
      It's not only effecting the elderly though. Elderly people are parents and grandparents and have many loving relationships. Their suffering and passing before their time will have devastating effects on many young people.
- Godel_unicode 6y ago
  There's a large group of people in the US especially who believe (perhaps subconsciously) that saying something loudly enough can make it be true.
  - hwillis 6y ago
    It's millions of people who literally believe they can ignore the virus away. https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:PNgXIVBEERYJ:https://twitter.com/mitchellvii/status/1287436717486739456+ https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:PNgXIV...
    - natrik 6y ago
      At least for me and many people I've talked to, it's less about ignoring, but more about how to deal with it in a feasible manner. This includes taking into account economic affects, long term feasibility, effectiveness of lockdowns, government overreach, and media fear mongering. Daily deaths have been very low in Sweden since July 11. No more 2 more weeks. https://i.imgur.com/5D4NGnr.png https://i.imgur.com/5D4NGnr.png https://i.imgur.com/JySIBvV.png https://i.imgur.com/JySIBvV.png
      - wesleywt 6y ago
        Just for perspective Sweden has 5000 deaths, Norway 255, Denmark 615 and Finland 329. Adjusted for population, the Swedish death rate is higher than the USA. It is not a poster child for success.
        natrik 6y ago
        Agree that at the moment Sweden seems to have done the wrong thing compared to its neighbours, Norway, Denmark, etc. However Anders Tegnell's strategy was to aim for the best long term outcome, not necessarily minimizing deaths in the short term. Sweden, a country of 10.1 million people, in which annual all-cause mortality is around 93,000, is currently reporting a total of 5,743 "COVID-19 deaths" (using a very broad counting standard whereby anyone who dies within 30 days of a COVID-19 diagnosis is counted as a "COVID-19 death," irrespective of the actual cause of death). Of those 5,743 "COVID-19 deaths": Almost 90% (89.1%) were over the age of 70 Over two-thirds (67.6%) were over the age of 80 Only 71 deaths (1.2%) were under the age of 50 Only 1 death was under the age of 20 [1] In the US, around 80.3% of deaths have been individuals aged 65 or older whereas in Sweden, around 89.1% of deaths have been individuals aged 70 or older. [1] In the US, only around 2.64% of deaths have been individuals under age 45 whereas in Sweden only around 1.26% of deaths have been individuals under age 50. [3] Sweden is currently reporting an overall death rate of 556 deaths / 1 M population which is higher than the current US figure of 433 deaths / 1 M population. But Sweden's population is older. Around 20% of Swedes are 65+ versus only around 15% for the US. The size of a country's 65+ population is a reasonable proxy for the size of its vulnerable population in view of the fact that the vast majority of deaths have come from individuals 65 or older. If we calculate total deaths (any age) / 1M 65+ population for both countries, we get 2886 for the US vs. 2780 for Sweden. Sweden's death rate / elderly population is actually lower than than that of the US, and the US should only be expected to fall further behind in this metric as time passes in view of the fact that Sweden is further along its curve than the US. [1] - https://www.statista.com/statistics/1107913/number-of-coronavirus-deaths-in-sweden-by-age-groups/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1107913/number-of-corona... [3] - https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Death-Counts-by-Sex-Age-and-S/9bhg-hcku https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Death-Counts-...
- DoreenMichele 6y ago
  I’ve never understood why the long term effects of Covid-19 have seemingly been ignored by the people who say this isn’t a big deal Since antibiotics became a thing, it seems like it has mostly fallen out of fashion to associate long-term, permanent issues with a one-time infection. It used to be normal to think of infection in terms of permanent impairment. Scarlet fever could do permanent heart damage. Polio could leave you unable to walk again. But antibiotics and vaccines have helped create a mindset that if it's serious, you see a doctor, you get good drugs and it's a short-term issue, not something that will maim you for life. The world used to more routinely think in terms of a single infection maiming you for life. Covid-19 possibly marks the end of an era in that regard. With antibiotic resistant infections on the rise and what not, we may see a return to those mental models of infection.
- heavyset_go 6y ago
  > I’ve never understood why the long term effects of Covid-19 have seemingly been ignored by the people who say this isn’t a big deal, deaths aren’t significant, and it mostly effects old people. It's because most people who claim this know that they're being disingenuous. Minimization is a common manipulation technique.
  - redis_mlc 6y ago
    Or it's because you and the GP presented no conclusive data, and people don't buy into your personal opinion. Not everybody wants to join a hand-wringing pity party for no valid reason.
    - LoSboccacc 6y ago
      this is a little too strong of a statement, but it's not entirely wrong, long term effect studies are starting to come out just now however, it is quite documented by now that any kind of heavy, long term inflammatory response trigger cascading effects on health, including atherosclerosis what it's missing from the discussion is whether these findings from covid patients are within the standard expected outcome of a heavy inflammatory response or something new and specific to covid response
  - numpad0 6y ago
    Am I being overly charitable if I'd say it's typical for a homo sapiens examples to deny/minimize/buy into conspiracy theories to save themselves from getting mentally overloaded
    - adventured 6y ago
      > Am I being overly charitable No, you're being reasonable in your assessment. It's an entirely common reason for why it happens. People rationalize away things that make them feel uncomfortable, scared, or things they simply don't want to deal with (if they confront it, it forces a change in their life, or a difficult choice and similar). There's a finite load that people can handle at one time, whether that's trying to quit smoking or dealing with problems with their children or work, etc. Ignorance plays an important role, no question, however it's related to the unwillingness to confront an issue first and foremost. An unwillingness to confront a thing (eg ignorance about SARS-CoV-2) is a consequence rather than cause; that unwillingness is often caused by the existing mental tax, life stress, the person is under (and all people have varying capacities for absorbing that, some people can't absorb much). This is another reason why childhood education is so critical, it can be very difficult to find the time to properly educate yourself later in life, as life's burdens attempt to swallow you; and your brain is more often going to spongehappy (knowledge nom nom nom), versus a more resistent adult brain that recognizes the effort and untangling required in dealing with/reconciling internal knowledge conflicts once incorrect information is in place. Teaching children how to think is hugely important, versus the person attempting to remake their brain processes later in life (such as during a global pandemic, as they're losing their job), when it's guaranteed to be a huge struggle with existing cruft/debt.
- mrtksn 6y ago
  The effects of Covid-19 have never been considered by those people because it is irrelevant since they are pushing an agenda. From the beginning, a bunch of people decided what the effect of Covid-19 should be and they simply kept pushing for it. It was never well thought, they just kept saying stuff as long as they could get away with it. It was only the flu, It was under control, it was already spread out and the test were detecting only the few and all this will be over in May so on and so on. There was even an Oxford study produced and used to support these claims[0]. These propaganda wars are taking victims now. [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22697163 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22697163 Just dive into the online activity history of the people who spread these things, it's a fascinating world of pushing for edge cases that never materialise but they keep pushing it anyway.
- musha68k 6y ago
  It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it! – Upton Sinclair Populism / neo-liberalism in general don't arrive easily at "unknown unknowns".
- roenxi 6y ago
  "Worldwide, the rate of infection with herpes simplex virus—counting both HSV-1 and HSV-2—is around 90%" [0] That virus might be a contributor to Alzheimer's and other neurological problems. Serious, long term health problems are a pretty normal part of the human condition. Serious long term damage is not actually an automatic call for action upending everyone's lifestyle. There needs to be a more precise explanation of what the problem is for it to be meaningful. Background risk for disease is already very high; as you point out normal flu is already threatening and most people basically ignore it. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epidemiology_of_herpes_simplex https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epidemiology_of_herpes_simplex
  - Teever 6y ago
    How do you expect people to respond to this comment exactly? "Oh, okay, lots of people have herpes and herpes infections have unanticipated consequences. I guess COVID-19 is no big deal."
    - roenxi 6y ago
      Herpes has serious long term health implications and it is no big deal. Covid having serious long term health implications does not, in and of itself, mean it is a big deal. Long term health problems are a fact of life. If people are going to argue it is a big deal, they need to articulate their concerns more precisely.
      - nomoreservices 6y ago
        We don't see health care systems collapsing due to herpes infections. Look at what's happening in Florida, Texas, Arizona with COVID-19.
        mensetmanusman 6y ago
        Health care systems are furloughing workers because there are not enough patients.
- esalman 6y ago
  It is a sociological problem, not medical or technological. Colleagues at wife's work (TX) believe it is a democratic hoax.
musha68k 6y ago
Lurking on medical twitter I've also seen that pulmonary fibrosis might be another surprisingly common post covid19 ailment: https://twitter.com/leticiakawano/status/1279960010504749061?s=21 https://twitter.com/leticiakawano/status/1279960010504749061... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulmonary_fibrosis https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulmonary_fibrosis
- chadcmulligan 6y ago
  From the wiki link "The scarring is permanent once it has developed", that is scary
  - claudeganon 6y ago
    Even more frightening is the statement, “life expectancy is generally less than five years.”
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - unsrsly 6y ago
      Not to downplay lung scarring from covid, but the "life expectancy less than five years" in this article refers to idiopathic pulmonary fibrosis which is a completely different disease. We don't yet have the data to say what long term outcomes are after severe cases of covid.
  - kourt 6y ago
    The long-term neurological effects are scary too. https://theconversation.com/coronavirus-and-the-brain-diagnosing-and-treating-covid-19s-neurological-effects-140047 https://theconversation.com/coronavirus-and-the-brain-diagno...
ghufran_syed 6y ago
Err, before everyone gets too excited, it would be nice to know what the equivalent study done on comparable influenza patients would look like. If it looks similar, then we probably don't have much to worry about, if the covid picture is more severe or more frequent, then we might have cause to worry
- claudeganon 6y ago
  Cardiologists are already concerned beyond what they see with influenza patients (which can also cause heart damage), especially because large amounts of viral replication has been found in the hearts of deceased patients: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamacardiology/fullarticle/2768915 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamacardiology/fullarticle/... https://www.statnews.com/2020/07/27/covid19-concerns-about-lasting-heart-damage/ https://www.statnews.com/2020/07/27/covid19-concerns-about-l...
- IfOnlyYouKnew 6y ago
  This virus has nothing in common with the flu, except being a respiratory virus. I don't mean this in terms of survival rates, although it's transparently obvious that diminishing the danger is the purpose of this talking point. But even ignoring that, there is just no reason why COVID should be compared with the flu and not, say, Hepatitis A (B or C), Ebola, HPV. Route of infection (here: respiratory) correlates welll with the effectiveness of various countermeasures. Symptoms are still somewhat similar but less so, with COVID causing rare symptoms like anosmia but relatively little fever and almost no rhinitis. It's completely useless for pharmaceutical treatments as well as for predicting severity, which for respiratory (and every other class) ranges from benign to certain death.
DoreenMichele 6y ago
I have a really hard time reading through something like this and pulling out pertinent information. This seems to be the quick and dirty summary in something close to layman's terms: A total of 78 patients who recovered from COVID-19 infection (78%) had cardiovascular involvement ... The most prevalent abnormality was myocardial inflammation ... detected in 60 patients recently recovered from COVID-19 (60%), followed by regional scar and pericardial enhancement. If anyone can else can give us a better breakdown that is succinct and doesn't require a medical degree to follow the jargon, please do. (I have had a class in medical terminology and I read medical records for five years as part of my job. But I was processing accident claims, not sickness claims, so I almost never read medical records saying anything about the heart.)
- pama 6y ago
  Here is a simplified discussion: https://www.statnews.com/2020/07/27/covid19-concerns-about-lasting-heart-damage/ https://www.statnews.com/2020/07/27/covid19-concerns-about-l...
  - musha68k 6y ago
    I've just passed this to friends and family. Thanks for sharing.
  - DoreenMichele 6y ago
    Thanks. I did read it. I'm just having a tough week.
sradman 6y ago
> our findings reveal that significant cardiac involvement occurs independently of the severity of original presentation and persists beyond the period of acute presentation, with no significant trend toward reduction of imaging or serological findings during the recovery period. Our findings may provide an indication of potentially considerable burden of inflammatory disease in large and growing parts of the population and urgently require confirmation in a larger cohort. This is unexpected. A chronic inflammatory disease seems to persist well beyond recovery from SARS-CoV-2 infection.

83 points by pama 6y ago

>CMR revealed cardiac involvement in 78 patients (78%) and ongoing myocardial inflammation in 60 patients (60%), independent of preexisting conditions, severity and overall course of the acute illness, and time from the original diagnosis. If damage to people’s hearts proves long term or if even mild COVID cases predispose people to heart problems later on, the knock on effects for countries that chose to let the pandemic run rampant are going to be horrendous.

helsinkiandrew 6y ago

I’ve never understood why the long term effects of Covid-19 have seemingly been ignored by the people who say this isn’t a big deal, deaths aren’t significant, and it mostly effects old people. Normal flu can cause long term cardiovascular effects in some people and Swine flu even more so. Given the severity of the effects of Covid-19 on peoples lungs, serious long term seems likely.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
claudeganon 6y ago
>isn’t a big deal, deaths aren’t significant, and it mostly effects old people. The pattern here is denial, for which dismissing long term consequences is just a continuation.
- calvinmorrison 6y ago
  It's hard to be sympathetic when you are 27, out of work for 6 months, and can't see friends because people in nursing homes are dying of a corona class virus effecting the elderly.
  - CamperBob2 6y ago
    At the same time, it's hard to be headstrong and nonchalant when it's obvious that nobody really knows what's going on with this thing.
  - drewcon 6y ago
    No one said it’s supposed to be easy.
    - calvinmorrison 6y ago
      It's not easy and nobody seems to give a hoot. Give up your prime money making years for $600 a week.
      - tonyedgecombe 6y ago
        Give up your prime money making years Lockdowns only started four months ago.
  - Johnjonjoan 6y ago
    It's not only effecting the elderly though. Elderly people are parents and grandparents and have many loving relationships. Their suffering and passing before their time will have devastating effects on many young people.
Godel_unicode 6y ago
There's a large group of people in the US especially who believe (perhaps subconsciously) that saying something loudly enough can make it be true.
- hwillis 6y ago
  It's millions of people who literally believe they can ignore the virus away. https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:PNgXIVBEERYJ:https://twitter.com/mitchellvii/status/1287436717486739456+ https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:PNgXIV...
  - natrik 6y ago
    At least for me and many people I've talked to, it's less about ignoring, but more about how to deal with it in a feasible manner. This includes taking into account economic affects, long term feasibility, effectiveness of lockdowns, government overreach, and media fear mongering. Daily deaths have been very low in Sweden since July 11. No more 2 more weeks. https://i.imgur.com/5D4NGnr.png https://i.imgur.com/5D4NGnr.png https://i.imgur.com/JySIBvV.png https://i.imgur.com/JySIBvV.png
    - wesleywt 6y ago
      Just for perspective Sweden has 5000 deaths, Norway 255, Denmark 615 and Finland 329. Adjusted for population, the Swedish death rate is higher than the USA. It is not a poster child for success.
      - natrik 6y ago
        Agree that at the moment Sweden seems to have done the wrong thing compared to its neighbours, Norway, Denmark, etc. However Anders Tegnell's strategy was to aim for the best long term outcome, not necessarily minimizing deaths in the short term. Sweden, a country of 10.1 million people, in which annual all-cause mortality is around 93,000, is currently reporting a total of 5,743 "COVID-19 deaths" (using a very broad counting standard whereby anyone who dies within 30 days of a COVID-19 diagnosis is counted as a "COVID-19 death," irrespective of the actual cause of death). Of those 5,743 "COVID-19 deaths": Almost 90% (89.1%) were over the age of 70 Over two-thirds (67.6%) were over the age of 80 Only 71 deaths (1.2%) were under the age of 50 Only 1 death was under the age of 20 [1] In the US, around 80.3% of deaths have been individuals aged 65 or older whereas in Sweden, around 89.1% of deaths have been individuals aged 70 or older. [1] In the US, only around 2.64% of deaths have been individuals under age 45 whereas in Sweden only around 1.26% of deaths have been individuals under age 50. [3] Sweden is currently reporting an overall death rate of 556 deaths / 1 M population which is higher than the current US figure of 433 deaths / 1 M population. But Sweden's population is older. Around 20% of Swedes are 65+ versus only around 15% for the US. The size of a country's 65+ population is a reasonable proxy for the size of its vulnerable population in view of the fact that the vast majority of deaths have come from individuals 65 or older. If we calculate total deaths (any age) / 1M 65+ population for both countries, we get 2886 for the US vs. 2780 for Sweden. Sweden's death rate / elderly population is actually lower than than that of the US, and the US should only be expected to fall further behind in this metric as time passes in view of the fact that Sweden is further along its curve than the US. [1] - https://www.statista.com/statistics/1107913/number-of-coronavirus-deaths-in-sweden-by-age-groups/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1107913/number-of-corona... [3] - https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Death-Counts-by-Sex-Age-and-S/9bhg-hcku https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Death-Counts-...
DoreenMichele 6y ago
I’ve never understood why the long term effects of Covid-19 have seemingly been ignored by the people who say this isn’t a big deal Since antibiotics became a thing, it seems like it has mostly fallen out of fashion to associate long-term, permanent issues with a one-time infection. It used to be normal to think of infection in terms of permanent impairment. Scarlet fever could do permanent heart damage. Polio could leave you unable to walk again. But antibiotics and vaccines have helped create a mindset that if it's serious, you see a doctor, you get good drugs and it's a short-term issue, not something that will maim you for life. The world used to more routinely think in terms of a single infection maiming you for life. Covid-19 possibly marks the end of an era in that regard. With antibiotic resistant infections on the rise and what not, we may see a return to those mental models of infection.
heavyset_go 6y ago
> I’ve never understood why the long term effects of Covid-19 have seemingly been ignored by the people who say this isn’t a big deal, deaths aren’t significant, and it mostly effects old people. It's because most people who claim this know that they're being disingenuous. Minimization is a common manipulation technique.
- redis_mlc 6y ago
  Or it's because you and the GP presented no conclusive data, and people don't buy into your personal opinion. Not everybody wants to join a hand-wringing pity party for no valid reason.
  - LoSboccacc 6y ago
    this is a little too strong of a statement, but it's not entirely wrong, long term effect studies are starting to come out just now however, it is quite documented by now that any kind of heavy, long term inflammatory response trigger cascading effects on health, including atherosclerosis what it's missing from the discussion is whether these findings from covid patients are within the standard expected outcome of a heavy inflammatory response or something new and specific to covid response
- numpad0 6y ago
  Am I being overly charitable if I'd say it's typical for a homo sapiens examples to deny/minimize/buy into conspiracy theories to save themselves from getting mentally overloaded
  - adventured 6y ago
    > Am I being overly charitable No, you're being reasonable in your assessment. It's an entirely common reason for why it happens. People rationalize away things that make them feel uncomfortable, scared, or things they simply don't want to deal with (if they confront it, it forces a change in their life, or a difficult choice and similar). There's a finite load that people can handle at one time, whether that's trying to quit smoking or dealing with problems with their children or work, etc. Ignorance plays an important role, no question, however it's related to the unwillingness to confront an issue first and foremost. An unwillingness to confront a thing (eg ignorance about SARS-CoV-2) is a consequence rather than cause; that unwillingness is often caused by the existing mental tax, life stress, the person is under (and all people have varying capacities for absorbing that, some people can't absorb much). This is another reason why childhood education is so critical, it can be very difficult to find the time to properly educate yourself later in life, as life's burdens attempt to swallow you; and your brain is more often going to spongehappy (knowledge nom nom nom), versus a more resistent adult brain that recognizes the effort and untangling required in dealing with/reconciling internal knowledge conflicts once incorrect information is in place. Teaching children how to think is hugely important, versus the person attempting to remake their brain processes later in life (such as during a global pandemic, as they're losing their job), when it's guaranteed to be a huge struggle with existing cruft/debt.
mrtksn 6y ago
The effects of Covid-19 have never been considered by those people because it is irrelevant since they are pushing an agenda. From the beginning, a bunch of people decided what the effect of Covid-19 should be and they simply kept pushing for it. It was never well thought, they just kept saying stuff as long as they could get away with it. It was only the flu, It was under control, it was already spread out and the test were detecting only the few and all this will be over in May so on and so on. There was even an Oxford study produced and used to support these claims[0]. These propaganda wars are taking victims now. [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22697163 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22697163 Just dive into the online activity history of the people who spread these things, it's a fascinating world of pushing for edge cases that never materialise but they keep pushing it anyway.
musha68k 6y ago
It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it! – Upton Sinclair Populism / neo-liberalism in general don't arrive easily at "unknown unknowns".
roenxi 6y ago
"Worldwide, the rate of infection with herpes simplex virus—counting both HSV-1 and HSV-2—is around 90%" [0] That virus might be a contributor to Alzheimer's and other neurological problems. Serious, long term health problems are a pretty normal part of the human condition. Serious long term damage is not actually an automatic call for action upending everyone's lifestyle. There needs to be a more precise explanation of what the problem is for it to be meaningful. Background risk for disease is already very high; as you point out normal flu is already threatening and most people basically ignore it. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epidemiology_of_herpes_simplex https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epidemiology_of_herpes_simplex
- Teever 6y ago
  How do you expect people to respond to this comment exactly? "Oh, okay, lots of people have herpes and herpes infections have unanticipated consequences. I guess COVID-19 is no big deal."
  - roenxi 6y ago
    Herpes has serious long term health implications and it is no big deal. Covid having serious long term health implications does not, in and of itself, mean it is a big deal. Long term health problems are a fact of life. If people are going to argue it is a big deal, they need to articulate their concerns more precisely.
    - nomoreservices 6y ago
      We don't see health care systems collapsing due to herpes infections. Look at what's happening in Florida, Texas, Arizona with COVID-19.
      - mensetmanusman 6y ago
        Health care systems are furloughing workers because there are not enough patients.
esalman 6y ago
It is a sociological problem, not medical or technological. Colleagues at wife's work (TX) believe it is a democratic hoax.

musha68k 6y ago

Lurking on medical twitter I've also seen that pulmonary fibrosis might be another surprisingly common post covid19 ailment: https://twitter.com/leticiakawano/status/1279960010504749061?s=21 https://twitter.com/leticiakawano/status/1279960010504749061... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulmonary_fibrosis https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulmonary_fibrosis

chadcmulligan 6y ago
From the wiki link "The scarring is permanent once it has developed", that is scary
- claudeganon 6y ago
  Even more frightening is the statement, “life expectancy is generally less than five years.”
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - unsrsly 6y ago
    Not to downplay lung scarring from covid, but the "life expectancy less than five years" in this article refers to idiopathic pulmonary fibrosis which is a completely different disease. We don't yet have the data to say what long term outcomes are after severe cases of covid.
- kourt 6y ago
  The long-term neurological effects are scary too. https://theconversation.com/coronavirus-and-the-brain-diagnosing-and-treating-covid-19s-neurological-effects-140047 https://theconversation.com/coronavirus-and-the-brain-diagno...

ghufran_syed 6y ago

Err, before everyone gets too excited, it would be nice to know what the equivalent study done on comparable influenza patients would look like. If it looks similar, then we probably don't have much to worry about, if the covid picture is more severe or more frequent, then we might have cause to worry

claudeganon 6y ago
Cardiologists are already concerned beyond what they see with influenza patients (which can also cause heart damage), especially because large amounts of viral replication has been found in the hearts of deceased patients: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamacardiology/fullarticle/2768915 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamacardiology/fullarticle/... https://www.statnews.com/2020/07/27/covid19-concerns-about-lasting-heart-damage/ https://www.statnews.com/2020/07/27/covid19-concerns-about-l...
IfOnlyYouKnew 6y ago
This virus has nothing in common with the flu, except being a respiratory virus. I don't mean this in terms of survival rates, although it's transparently obvious that diminishing the danger is the purpose of this talking point. But even ignoring that, there is just no reason why COVID should be compared with the flu and not, say, Hepatitis A (B or C), Ebola, HPV. Route of infection (here: respiratory) correlates welll with the effectiveness of various countermeasures. Symptoms are still somewhat similar but less so, with COVID causing rare symptoms like anosmia but relatively little fever and almost no rhinitis. It's completely useless for pharmaceutical treatments as well as for predicting severity, which for respiratory (and every other class) ranges from benign to certain death.

DoreenMichele 6y ago

I have a really hard time reading through something like this and pulling out pertinent information. This seems to be the quick and dirty summary in something close to layman's terms: A total of 78 patients who recovered from COVID-19 infection (78%) had cardiovascular involvement ... The most prevalent abnormality was myocardial inflammation ... detected in 60 patients recently recovered from COVID-19 (60%), followed by regional scar and pericardial enhancement. If anyone can else can give us a better breakdown that is succinct and doesn't require a medical degree to follow the jargon, please do. (I have had a class in medical terminology and I read medical records for five years as part of my job. But I was processing accident claims, not sickness claims, so I almost never read medical records saying anything about the heart.)

pama 6y ago
Here is a simplified discussion: https://www.statnews.com/2020/07/27/covid19-concerns-about-lasting-heart-damage/ https://www.statnews.com/2020/07/27/covid19-concerns-about-l...
- musha68k 6y ago
  I've just passed this to friends and family. Thanks for sharing.
- DoreenMichele 6y ago
  Thanks. I did read it. I'm just having a tough week.

sradman 6y ago

> our findings reveal that significant cardiac involvement occurs independently of the severity of original presentation and persists beyond the period of acute presentation, with no significant trend toward reduction of imaging or serological findings during the recovery period. Our findings may provide an indication of potentially considerable burden of inflammatory disease in large and growing parts of the population and urgently require confirmation in a larger cohort. This is unexpected. A chronic inflammatory disease seems to persist well beyond recovery from SARS-CoV-2 infection.