14 ms·
Google removes all Danish music from YouTube
- twhitmore 6y agoSounds like a very aggressive negotiating tactic on Google's part. They're scared that if the Nordic agreement succeeds, they'd gradually be bid up on content pricing everywhere. Koda and the Nordic group are not necessarily in a weak position. But might be in an even stronger position if they had an alternative video/ streaming service to recommend, which paid them higher content partner rates. It will only take one content provider to hold out for long enough, yet still be an attractive market at higher content rates, to break Google's embargo. Good luck.
- fierarul 6y agoThe press release is also quit unilateral. If Google wants a 70% discount and the others are not agreeing then clearly no agreement can be reached and removing that music is just the logical next step. Maybe the negotiating party assumed Google will not even be technically capable of such a thing. Google is showing they can and giving them an opportunity to measure loses too.
- drivingmenuts 6y agoHow is it aggressive? If an agreement to do Thing is necessary, and you don’t have an agreement, you just stop doing the Thing. Koda is just starting from a weaker position than YouTube.
- josefx 6y agoThe article mentions that a temporary extension to the already existing agreement is normal and expected during negotiations. So Google not doing it, presumably to apply pressure on the negotiations is agressive. >Koda is just starting from a weaker position than YouTube. Ideally negotiations should be between equals. If this is just Google throwing its e dick around then they need to get a few more antitrust fines.
- Shorel 6y agoWould be funny if the combined resources of three countries end up creating a strong YouTube competitor. The world needs a YouTube competitor sooner than later.
- Abishek_Muthian 6y agoCreating a competitor is simple enough, making the video from that platform appear above a video from the YouTube on the Google search is what would determine its fate. Then again, if anyone can make Google accountable it's EU.
- phoe-krk 6y agoIf the video that is being searched for is removed from YouTube, then there is no YouTube page that could be above the competitor's page.
- kube-system 6y agoI would assume you'd need to rank well at more than just Danish music to compete with YouTube in general.
- phoe-krk 6y agoAnd this, in turn, forms ground for another lawsuit...
- kthartic 6y agoI think most of the time when I'm searching for a video, my starting point is on YouTube itself, not Google. So in the case of a competitor, the site itself would be my search engine. Your point is still valid though.
- Abishek_Muthian 6y agoFair point, but Google displays videos at the top of the search results even when you are not searching for videos explicitly and those videos are from YouTube. There are enough stats to say, a layman would click a video over an article to read.
- wcoenen 6y agoThis is difficult to interpret without the details of the original agreement, which are not mentioned in the post. If google was paying more than the ad revenue on the content, then not extending the agreement would be reasonable.
- defertoreptar 6y agoHard to judge without knowing how much more Koda wants compared to other content providers. Anyone know this?
- zentiggr 6y agoThe site is apparently in the HoD phase - could I ask a polite TL;DR?
- andybak 6y ago(HoD = "Hug of Death" - please don't use obscure TLAs* - it makes people feel excluded) (* three letter acronyms) EDIT - and it means something like "site down because it's been linked to from here and can't handle the traffic) EDIT2 - "tl;dr" is at least easy to google...
- zentiggr 6y agoI didn't think that one was obscure _here_. Point taken.
- swimfar 6y agoIt's best to just assume that all acronyms are obscure and spell them out the first time you use them, especially ones related to a specific field of interest, hobby, profession, or culture.
- gruez 6y agofwiw I’ve seen the term “hug of death” term used for years but that did not cross my mind when I saw “HoD”.
- qlm 6y agoMy first thought was "Hood of Defiance".
- metalliqaz 6y agosame. Until today I had only heard it on Reddit.
- wodenokoto 6y agoKoda, who represents all danish music is negotiating a new contract with google. The old one expired this April, but is extended until a new contract is negotiated. Google wants to pay only 30% of the old contract during negotiations and is now threatening to remove all danish music from YouTube. Koda wants the new contract to have higher payments as Google is paying well below competitors.
- qwerty456127 6y agoHardly heard any Danish music ever. Reading reviews, listening and downloading now :-)
- bjelkeman-again 6y agoVolbeat. :)
- pseudobry 6y agoI've been listening to Volbeat almost non-stop since I first heard them a few weeks ago.
- mikkelam 6y agoAqua, Lukas Graham, MØ, Volbeat, AlphaBeat, Martin Jensen are probably among the most well known danish artists.
- Eyght 6y agoOne of the classics. Gasoline - This is my life https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jqd-JcjQo8I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jqd-JcjQo8I
- jakear 6y ago...not available. Isn’t that the point of this thread?
- AnssiH 6y agoOnly blocked in some countries, the video works fine in most of Europe, Canada, Australia, South America, and India. Map: https://polsy.org.uk/stuff/ytrestrict.cgi?ytid=Jqd-JcjQo8I https://polsy.org.uk/stuff/ytrestrict.cgi?ytid=Jqd-JcjQo8I
- markosaric 6y agoSome of my favorites: Lukas Graham, Tina Dico, Claus Hempler and D-A-D (Disneyland After Dark).
- reportgunner 6y agoreduce the payment provided to composers and songwriters for YouTube’s use of music by almost 70% Yes but pirating is bad.
- scott31 6y agoKoda wants to have their cake and eat it too. Seems like Google is right in this case.
- nindalf 6y agoKoda is wrong for not wanting to take a 70% cut in revenue? I wonder if you'd be open to the idea of a 70% pay cut? Probably not right? Now what if your employer was the only employer where you live?
- msh 6y agoWell the problem here is also what they want money for. Youtube pays the same in these two cases - Someone watches the newest taylor swift music video. - I upload a video of my kid doing something funny where taylor swift is accidentally played in the background. Should the music industry be payed the same in both cases?
- Anon1096 6y agoThis is just while they're in the middle of contract negotiations. I think it was generous of Google to offer a cut at all while there was no contract in place, and cutting off the service is really what I think should have (and did) happen.
- adrianN 6y agoHow much money does Google make off of ads on Danish music? Maybe it's just not worth the effort at the price Koda is asking for.
- ardy42 6y ago> Koda is wrong for not wanting to take a 70% cut in revenue? I wonder if you'd be open to the idea of a 70% pay cut? Probably not right? Now what if your employer was the only employer where you live? I don't know. Google provides so much value in all our lives, it sounds like it's fair that it should get a 70% cut in our personal revenues, too. /s
- 1nverseMtx 6y agoNo sympathy for music licensing bodies. Lacks any details about previous deals or how those compare world wide.
- coffeefirst 6y agoThe weird thing is that licensing bodies, like writers guilds et al, are supposed to represent the financial interests of artists and other folks involved in the process. They've built a reputation for being stodgy and backwards because of their ham-fisted handling of DRM/piracy/mp3 sales, but insisting that YouTube funnels real money back to artists is exactly what they ought to be doing.
- barrkel 6y agoTwo rentiers fighting it out for the biggest slice of the pie.
- beaner 6y agoMusicians need to wake up and realize that there is almost no money in recordings. Recordings are advertisements for performances. You make money from shows and concerts. You can't charge tech companies more than they themselves are making from the music. Just because they're big companies doesn't mean they can squeeze water from a rock. Your music is worth much less to them than you assume.
- User23 6y agoSomeone once asked Don McLean in an interview, "What does American Pie mean?" His response was, "it means I never have to work again."
- mrweasel 6y agoBut is that reasonable? Shouldn’t the musicians be the ones how decide how much they want for their music? What if you can’t put on concerts, like it’s the case right now, do your work then become worthless? Honestly I think the issue is the record labels. The need to seriously reduce their cut and let the musicians keep the bulk of the royalties. It’s a little concerning that a Youtube channel with maybe 500 - 1000 Patreon supports and few ads can be a living, but musicians need to tour, to make a profit. That seems to indicate, to me at least, that Youtube may not be the problem.
- cblades 6y agoI don't think the OC implied that musicians (or their agents) shouldn't have pricing authority, just that the market won't bear the prices they seem to want. The moment a digital file exists, your competing price point is free. People can still pirate, and don't because of youtube and streaming sites. You don't have to think that's right or fair (I don't), but it's absolutely the reality.
- mrweasel 6y agoPiracy doesn’t that viable anymore, it’s a lot more in convinient, especially for spontanious listing on a mobile device. Sure the price still need to be low enough, but not zero anymore. Interestingly enough Youtube Music is the most expensive streaming service, that least in Denmark.
- metalliqaz 6y agoThey should be happy. Google exited their market. Now they can capture all the customers with their own platform and keep all the money.
- traveler01 6y agoAnd you always have Spotify which is a brand from those parts anyway.
- traveler01 6y agoSorry I forgot the part that they are complaining with Google for underpaying artists...
- eejjjj82 6y agoYou do realize that high resolution video hosting and serving is about the most expensive thing you can do on the internet? Just see Vimeo's fee schedule.
- NelsonMinar 6y agoOne wonders if the folks in Denmark arguing about their economic rights realizes this.
- dmortin 6y agoApparently, the Danish musicians don't realize this value, thinking the platform is free to maintain if they can host videos for free there.
- alacombe 6y ago> Danish musicians I don't think Danish musicians had any choice in this decision.
- JAlexoid 6y agoCorrectamundo! This is an argument between a government sanctioned "artist association"(it's really record label manager association) and Google. No artist is part of this at all. But Danish musicians are still free to host their own music on YouTube, this argument affects only the unlicensed use of music in third party videos.
- anton96 6y agoI'm certainly one of the rare people who planned (for the next week!) to take youtube music and premium just to be sure to have access to all danish song but finally nope. No I'm not danish but when you like different languages and commercial hip hop,danish hip hop is not that bad !
- erk__ 6y agoThe music is still accessible outside of Denmark, at least for now, not sure if that will change.
- wintermutestwin 6y agoSomewhat off topic: I live in fear that one day, I'll wake to find that youtube pulled all the live shows and music that isn't on AM/Spotify due to neglect or licensing BS. Or even worse, that they decide to make their ads unblockable by stitching them in. Solving this problem seems overwhelmingly complex: On one hand, it is against youtube's ToS to download (even for archival), but on the other, youtube (and the majority of the uploaders) don't have the rights for that content in the first place.
- mjul 6y agoFor reference, there is a lot of relevant financial background information in their (Koda’s) Annual Reports: https://www.koda.dk/about-us/annual-reports-transparency-report-and-analyses https://www.koda.dk/about-us/annual-reports-transparency-rep...
- vondur 6y agoWait, does that mean no King Diamond?
- droobles 6y agoI'm sure there will be full album bootlegs still up, there always are from foreign uploaders.
- drivers99 6y agoKing Diamond is on Roadrunner (1986 - 1990) and Metal Blade (1995 - now).[1] Actually looks like he's re-releasing his old stuff on Metal Blade as well.[2] (Tempting to pick it up on Vinyl when I already have the original CDs.) Anyway, those are US labels and distributed by for instance WMG outside the US. I would assume those have nothing to do with that Koda group; Metal Blade even has uploaded entire albums of his on YouTube.[3] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_Diamond_discography https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_Diamond_discography [2] https://www.kingdiamondcoven.com/news https://www.kingdiamondcoven.com/news [3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_6oMRtc118&feature=youtu.be&t=91 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_6oMRtc118&feature=youtu.be...
- neves 6y agoI know zero about Danish music. Please, tell me the good music I'll be missing. BTW, I don't like electronic music.
- Fiahil 6y agoThey have a good heavy metal scene. Groups like Volbeat, Pretty Maids, etc
- supernova87a 6y agoAs in so many disputes, the parties (koda.dk here) will claim this is about principles and yada yada yada, "Google removes all Danish music from Youtube", etc. You can be guaranteed though, it's always just about the price and how the one party doesn't want to pay it, and the other party doesn't want to change it. ESPN doesn't want to pay MLB, Comcast doesn't want to pay local stations, app developers don't want to pay Apple. It goes on and on. The article has the headline "On the evening of Thursday 30 July, Google announced that they will soon remove all Danish music content on YouTube". Yet in the next paragraphs, it goes on to describe a change in terms promulgated by Google after a treaty expiration, and that "Of course, Koda cannot accept these terms". Well then, this is a decision by Google, and then a decision by Koda isn't it? Yet they make it sound like Google is the big bad entity. Isn't that convenient.
- dgellow 6y agoGoogle uses their dominant position to ask a reduction of 70%. How do you want Koda to accept those terms? Why would artists work with Koda if they don’t push back on such a ridiculous demand? It’s their job to say no here.
- supernova87a 6y ago> Google uses their dominant position to ask a reduction of 70%. How do you want Koda to accept those terms? Why would artists work with Koda if they don’t push back on such a ridiculous demand? It’s their job to say no here. That's fine. Just don't misrepresent that it's Google unilaterally removing people's content. "How do you want Koda to accept those terms?" However they wish to -- that's not my place to tell them. It's totally up to them. They can change their business model. They can come up with whatever ideas they want. Just like Google had to, to undercut all those old traditional advertisers who were charging ridiculous rates for print advertising. Just like every startup is trying to do to incumbents. Just like tons of people do every day without any desire for any revenue, even. Don't cherry pick the things you like about being able to create new things, and then suddenly demand barriers (on principle) to that same ability because you started making money on it. You just want your cut, just like Google.
- ultrablack 6y agoThese musicians can just build their own compeeting video platform. At least they are very keen to present such an argument when discussing social media censorship.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- fhchl 6y agoI am residing in Denmark. Since today, I have not been able to listen many songs in my YT playlists as "this content is unavailable in your conrtry". Might this not only be about Noridic artists, but rights of musicians in Nordic contries in general?
- erk__ 6y agoIt is artists who have their rights administrated by KODA in Denmark. It may also include things like Danish songwriters as well.
- wyxuan 6y agothis is a press release, perhaps the link should be replaced with a neutral party: http://cphpost.dk/?p=117112 http://cphpost.dk/?p=117112
- fermienrico 6y agoWith all this anti-Google sentiments, I find Youtube absolutely priceless for all the things I've gained for free from it from so much education, DIY tips, MIT lectures on Thermodynamics, live streaming from ISS and thousands and thousands of amazing things that have enriched my life. I would pay the shit out of Youtube if it ever made it mandatory to pay for it. I would pay $200 a month just to access the historical archive of all this knowledge even if they stopped uploading new content. Youtube has enriched society on a monumental scale. I hate big companies and their monopoly position but the level of entitlement in this thread is absurdly unfair. The world would be significantly worse without YouTube.
- tsycho 6y agoAre you paying for their ad-free premium experience today? It's $10/month, much lesser than the $200 you are willing to pay.
- Aunche 6y agoIt looks like this only applies to Koda members. From their website, it doesn't look like all Danish musicians are members of Koda, so the title is misleading.
- tomcam 6y agoNot sure why this isn’t topping HN
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- grumple 6y agoIn the long term, I think platforms will find that consumers care more about content than the platforms. It’s just as easy to watch a video on Vimeo or a private site as YouTube, and the quality is usually equal, and sometimes better. Platforms have some lock-in due to networking effects and content storage, but for businesses built around getting eyeballs on unique content (like music), that means basically nothing.
- ikyriakidis 6y agoTime to switch to Spotify...
- JohnRLewis_v2 6y agoPut shortly ... The C.V. of Google, is something Google's decision-makers would be wise to "include" ... Right now, people (Musicians and music-lovers) in the Nordic Countries, have got an experience, that should have been avoided, and that can be "neutralized" by Google's change of course. C.V ...what to be remembered by and being proud of : - like "we did build this country, this company"... - right now, it's the opposite: We Ruined Musicians Lifes, and We Ruined Music ... - If this is, what Google wants to be remembered by, then well ... Rewriting history : - like Trump and especially eastern leaders/rulerships, one can of course always "make it all fit and shine" ... like Trump has been doing, again and again... The Trump way of doing things : - This "Tank-like" way of acting and dealing with other living people, running over ... makes Google's policy look a lot like Trump's... - That is: Resistence (or not "100% obediance from Nordi Koda/Musicians) => a "Trumpish" reaction: YOU ARE DEAD, YOU ARE NOT-WORTHY - AND "YOU ARE FIRED" / OUT OF THE GAME !!! ... - that is: Being the chef/owner, running things in a "cartoon-like cathegorial way" ... in which empathy-etc is 100% "put-aside / cut-off". My Hope ... is that Google will "look inside", re-evaluate, and rethink their "quick decision", and then take-in and include the different perspectives ... And, in this way, I urge Google to get inspired by people like John-Robert-Lewis, who changed the "standard way of doing things and acting" in the 50's and 60's ... changed this peacefully, and in a time-long proces made the Leaders and people RETHINK their decisions, policies, and behaviour .... The same I am hoping, that Google will do here (and other dominant companies (and governments) will do ... In this, there is a "rethink money" factor. Instead of "making money", then spend them where they are needed .... If, for instance, Google wants to AID MUSIC, then Google could give (enough) money to the Musiciens, to make "vision" happen in real life.... (so Please! Google, rethink and get back on the right track - and do something (good) that I am sure you want to be remembered by - and that fits your Officiel Image !!!)