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There was a great comment on Slashdot[0] of all places about today’s hearing which I thought put it into great perspective: > [I]t's a bit of grandstanding and

There was a great comment on Slashdot[0] of all places about today’s hearing which I thought put it into great perspective: > [I]t's a bit of grandstanding and an attempt to take back control of open discourse on the Internet. While they're going after these tech companies they've done fuck all about the massive telecom mergers, the fact that 90% of local TV stations were bought up by Sinclair Media, the massive consolidation in the grocery store business or that fact that every single apartment complex in 50 miles of where I live is owned by one company. I couldn’t agree more. Of all the industries to go after at this time, these tech companies will not have anywhere near the same negative impact on people’s lives as media and housing consolidation. The power grab is happening right under everyone’s noses, and these hearings are nothing but a distraction. [0] https://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=16866313&cid=60344133 https://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=16866313&cid=6034...

rbecker 6y ago
But Facebook and Google are media. Not traditional media, but the power they wield in shaping public debate is similar.
- sjg007 6y ago
  FB and Google should crush Fox News. Of course it won't happen but they should.
hn_throwaway_99 6y ago
Complete whataboutism. Other industries may have consolidated, but considering their market caps are orders of magnitude less than the tech giants, it's not unreasonable to question the extreme power these giants have.
- croutonwagon 6y ago
  I don’t think market cap (especially with tech) directly correlates to social/societal influence The stock market is an okay marker to measure relative value/public confidence in their short term and long term fidelity as a company. But that’s not directly related to influence.
- orwin 6y ago
  I'm absolutely not pro-GAFAM or anything, i don't use 99% their products, i've even left gmail recently (android and Youtube are the only GAFAM products i still use). I don't think market cap is a valid mesuring point. Assets, real-world assets i mean, should be. QE since 2008 is inflating the stock market like crazy - with expected consequences regarding property prices - and market valuation are crazy. If they were not, at least some LBOs attempts would be made. I have found this[0] for revenue, this is an OK metric, not the best for sure, but it show the company participation in the economy (and thus is still better than market cap). [0]https://howmuch.net/articles/worlds-largest-companies-by-revenue https://howmuch.net/articles/worlds-largest-companies-by-rev...
- isx726552 6y ago
  The impact on average people’s lives of housing consolidation will be orders of magnitude bigger than anything tech companies can do at this point, and it started a while ago: “Wall Street’s Hot New Financial Product: Your Rent Check” (2014) https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/02/blackstone-rental-homes-bundled-derivatives/ https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/02/blackstone-rent... More recently: “A $60 Billion Housing Grab by Wall Street” (March 2020) https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/04/magazine/wall-street-landlords.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/04/magazine/wall-street-land... “If Landlords Get Wiped Out, Wall Street Wins, Not Renters“ (May 2020) https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-05-12/if-landlords-get-wiped-out-wall-street-wins-not-renters https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-05-12/if-landlo... This is going to huge, bad for almost everyone, and it’s not getting talked about. It’s the government’s job to stay on top of these sorts of things, and they are instead focusing on tech. This is about governmental watchdogs focusing on the wrong things. It’s not “whataboutism”, it’s directly related.
Barrin92 6y ago
> that every single apartment complex in 50 miles of where I live is owned by one company. That sounds relatively dramatic but if we chop the US housing market into areas of 50 miles we still end up with a ton of different real estate companies Facebook and Google together hold a majority of the digital ad market. If Facebook users were citizens it'd be the biggest nation on the planet Sinclair is just about as bad but I doubt anyone disagrees with that sentiment, and the conclusion is obviously that sinclair needs more attention, and not that big tech needs less
- rbecker 6y ago
  Areas of 50 miles are entire cities. Assuming their assertion about housing is true, they're absolutely right that the issue should get way more attention. I just disagree that should come at the cost of reducing attention to tech monopolies. But since consolidation and market power abuse are the same problems whether in tech or real-estate or media, there's no reason scrutiny to it in tech should detract from scrutiny in other areas. In fact, it should increase scrutiny - once we notice the problem in one area, we'll notice it everywhere.
- thereticent 6y ago
  Sure, but acknowledging the reality for many people that they are limited by a number of interests to stay geographically local, the local news and housing monopolies at 50-mile radius level are more restrictive than digital monopolies. Not that I like either.
- sjtindell 6y ago
  To me it feels different because telecoms, airlines, banks, real estate, and all the other industries have undergone consolidation whereas the technology companies under fire practically invented the markets they are dominating.
  - zapita 6y ago
    Tech has also consolidated significantly. - Facebook has acquired 86 companies, most of them small startups. They famously own Instagram, Whatsapp and Oculus, as well as Giphy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mergers_and_acquisitions_by_Facebook https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mergers_and_acquisitio... - Alphabet has made 236 acquisitions. They own Youtube and Doubleclick which are massive. Android, Maps, Docs and many other Google products came from acquisitions. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mergers_and_acquisitions_by_Alphabet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mergers_and_acquisitio...
joe_the_user 6y ago
This definitely. The US has reached a fairly catastrophic level of social dysfunction today, a bizarre and perhaps unprecedented sort of social polarization that bodes very ill for the future. It has appeared in social media, it might be accelerated by social media but it isn't explained by social media. The division of the US into "red counties" and "blue counties" especially should have people worried. Even more, the existence of a multitude of Christian institutions parallel to secular institutions (from Christian "health experts" to Christian law schools and colleges to Christian media to Christian rock) bodes further ill for unified nation. I mean, genocide in Myanmar happened through Facebook but Facebook didn't create it out of nothing. Genocide in Rwanda happened through radio, TV and word-of-mouth but wasn't explained by these either.
- thatguy0900 6y ago
  Is it really unprecedented when we've had a civil war? Regardless, I agree it's catastrophic
rascul 6y ago
> > 90% of local TV stations were bought up by Sinclair Media I'm not sure that this is accurate. Some quick parsing of the table [0] finds 37 states and 193 stations. I don't have the total number of stations for all states, but I highly suspect Sinclair actually doesn't own an amount so close to 90%. That number just made me want to see if I could verify it and it looks like it might not be correct. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_stations_owned_or_operated_by_Sinclair_Broadcast_Group https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_stations_owned_or_oper...

rbecker 6y ago

But Facebook and Google are media. Not traditional media, but the power they wield in shaping public debate is similar.

sjg007 6y ago
FB and Google should crush Fox News. Of course it won't happen but they should.

hn_throwaway_99 6y ago

Complete whataboutism. Other industries may have consolidated, but considering their market caps are orders of magnitude less than the tech giants, it's not unreasonable to question the extreme power these giants have.

croutonwagon 6y ago
I don’t think market cap (especially with tech) directly correlates to social/societal influence The stock market is an okay marker to measure relative value/public confidence in their short term and long term fidelity as a company. But that’s not directly related to influence.
orwin 6y ago
I'm absolutely not pro-GAFAM or anything, i don't use 99% their products, i've even left gmail recently (android and Youtube are the only GAFAM products i still use). I don't think market cap is a valid mesuring point. Assets, real-world assets i mean, should be. QE since 2008 is inflating the stock market like crazy - with expected consequences regarding property prices - and market valuation are crazy. If they were not, at least some LBOs attempts would be made. I have found this[0] for revenue, this is an OK metric, not the best for sure, but it show the company participation in the economy (and thus is still better than market cap). [0]https://howmuch.net/articles/worlds-largest-companies-by-revenue https://howmuch.net/articles/worlds-largest-companies-by-rev...
isx726552 6y ago
The impact on average people’s lives of housing consolidation will be orders of magnitude bigger than anything tech companies can do at this point, and it started a while ago: “Wall Street’s Hot New Financial Product: Your Rent Check” (2014) https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/02/blackstone-rental-homes-bundled-derivatives/ https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/02/blackstone-rent... More recently: “A $60 Billion Housing Grab by Wall Street” (March 2020) https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/04/magazine/wall-street-landlords.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/04/magazine/wall-street-land... “If Landlords Get Wiped Out, Wall Street Wins, Not Renters“ (May 2020) https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-05-12/if-landlords-get-wiped-out-wall-street-wins-not-renters https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-05-12/if-landlo... This is going to huge, bad for almost everyone, and it’s not getting talked about. It’s the government’s job to stay on top of these sorts of things, and they are instead focusing on tech. This is about governmental watchdogs focusing on the wrong things. It’s not “whataboutism”, it’s directly related.

Barrin92 6y ago

> that every single apartment complex in 50 miles of where I live is owned by one company. That sounds relatively dramatic but if we chop the US housing market into areas of 50 miles we still end up with a ton of different real estate companies Facebook and Google together hold a majority of the digital ad market. If Facebook users were citizens it'd be the biggest nation on the planet Sinclair is just about as bad but I doubt anyone disagrees with that sentiment, and the conclusion is obviously that sinclair needs more attention, and not that big tech needs less

rbecker 6y ago
Areas of 50 miles are entire cities. Assuming their assertion about housing is true, they're absolutely right that the issue should get way more attention. I just disagree that should come at the cost of reducing attention to tech monopolies. But since consolidation and market power abuse are the same problems whether in tech or real-estate or media, there's no reason scrutiny to it in tech should detract from scrutiny in other areas. In fact, it should increase scrutiny - once we notice the problem in one area, we'll notice it everywhere.
thereticent 6y ago
Sure, but acknowledging the reality for many people that they are limited by a number of interests to stay geographically local, the local news and housing monopolies at 50-mile radius level are more restrictive than digital monopolies. Not that I like either.
sjtindell 6y ago
To me it feels different because telecoms, airlines, banks, real estate, and all the other industries have undergone consolidation whereas the technology companies under fire practically invented the markets they are dominating.
- zapita 6y ago
  Tech has also consolidated significantly. - Facebook has acquired 86 companies, most of them small startups. They famously own Instagram, Whatsapp and Oculus, as well as Giphy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mergers_and_acquisitions_by_Facebook https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mergers_and_acquisitio... - Alphabet has made 236 acquisitions. They own Youtube and Doubleclick which are massive. Android, Maps, Docs and many other Google products came from acquisitions. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mergers_and_acquisitions_by_Alphabet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mergers_and_acquisitio...

joe_the_user 6y ago

This definitely. The US has reached a fairly catastrophic level of social dysfunction today, a bizarre and perhaps unprecedented sort of social polarization that bodes very ill for the future. It has appeared in social media, it might be accelerated by social media but it isn't explained by social media. The division of the US into "red counties" and "blue counties" especially should have people worried. Even more, the existence of a multitude of Christian institutions parallel to secular institutions (from Christian "health experts" to Christian law schools and colleges to Christian media to Christian rock) bodes further ill for unified nation. I mean, genocide in Myanmar happened through Facebook but Facebook didn't create it out of nothing. Genocide in Rwanda happened through radio, TV and word-of-mouth but wasn't explained by these either.

thatguy0900 6y ago
Is it really unprecedented when we've had a civil war? Regardless, I agree it's catastrophic

rascul 6y ago

> > 90% of local TV stations were bought up by Sinclair Media I'm not sure that this is accurate. Some quick parsing of the table [0] finds 37 states and 193 stations. I don't have the total number of stations for all states, but I highly suspect Sinclair actually doesn't own an amount so close to 90%. That number just made me want to see if I could verify it and it looks like it might not be correct. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_stations_owned_or_operated_by_Sinclair_Broadcast_Group https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_stations_owned_or_oper...