6 ms·

Tech CEOs Invoke the American Dream to Obscure the Nightmare They Created

65 points by elsewhen 6y ago

gowld 6y ago
Article has a lot of complaints about the modern global supply chain, but not much about the tech giants caused it or how eliminating giants would avoid the problem. Cocoa farm slavery is a huge problem even without a huge chocolate company causing it.
- zwkrt 6y ago
  Let’s take your specific example, even though Nestle isn’t a “tech” company. Does Nestle do everything in its power to ensure it isn’t receiving products from slaves or from wholesalers dealing in slave-produced goods? Does it have as a part of its charter the ethical treatment of all people in its supply chain? Is Nestle doing its best not to do arbitrage on the difference in living standards and regulation that exist on either end of its supply chain? Are Nestles’ investors interested first and foremost in advancing and uplifting the people that ultimately create and consume Nestles products? Does Nestle lobby governments and international bodies to ensure human rights are being upheld? Of course not! The problem is that people fundamentally care more about chocolate Easter eggs than they do about each other. Slavery wouldn’t be a problem if demand for the product wasn’t there. Tech companies exist at the forefront of profiteering by exploiting and reducing inefficiencies in the global market. Jeff Bezos said just as much in his congressional hearing. The problem is that these “inefficiencies” are the lived experiences of the people who actually interact with the tech. Peoples well-being and autonomy and culture are not always diametrically opposed you the interest of these companies, but at best they tend to be orthogonal.
isx726552 6y ago
There was a great comment on Slashdot[0] of all places about today’s hearing which I thought put it into great perspective: > [I]t's a bit of grandstanding and an attempt to take back control of open discourse on the Internet. While they're going after these tech companies they've done fuck all about the massive telecom mergers, the fact that 90% of local TV stations were bought up by Sinclair Media, the massive consolidation in the grocery store business or that fact that every single apartment complex in 50 miles of where I live is owned by one company. I couldn’t agree more. Of all the industries to go after at this time, these tech companies will not have anywhere near the same negative impact on people’s lives as media and housing consolidation. The power grab is happening right under everyone’s noses, and these hearings are nothing but a distraction. [0] https://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=16866313&cid=60344133 https://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=16866313&cid=6034...
- rbecker 6y ago
  But Facebook and Google are media. Not traditional media, but the power they wield in shaping public debate is similar.
  - sjg007 6y ago
    FB and Google should crush Fox News. Of course it won't happen but they should.
- hn_throwaway_99 6y ago
  Complete whataboutism. Other industries may have consolidated, but considering their market caps are orders of magnitude less than the tech giants, it's not unreasonable to question the extreme power these giants have.
  - croutonwagon 6y ago
    I don’t think market cap (especially with tech) directly correlates to social/societal influence The stock market is an okay marker to measure relative value/public confidence in their short term and long term fidelity as a company. But that’s not directly related to influence.
  - orwin 6y ago
    I'm absolutely not pro-GAFAM or anything, i don't use 99% their products, i've even left gmail recently (android and Youtube are the only GAFAM products i still use). I don't think market cap is a valid mesuring point. Assets, real-world assets i mean, should be. QE since 2008 is inflating the stock market like crazy - with expected consequences regarding property prices - and market valuation are crazy. If they were not, at least some LBOs attempts would be made. I have found this[0] for revenue, this is an OK metric, not the best for sure, but it show the company participation in the economy (and thus is still better than market cap). [0]https://howmuch.net/articles/worlds-largest-companies-by-revenue https://howmuch.net/articles/worlds-largest-companies-by-rev...
  - isx726552 6y ago
op03 6y ago
I feel we need public bug trackers that extend beyond software issues. Where tech companies are creating economic issues, social issues, psychological issues, political issues, legal issues etc there needs to be public bug tracking on each.
- np_tedious 6y ago
  Neat idea. Issues might need to be a little more freeform than most bug templates. "Acceptance Criteria" would be a difficult field to fill out.
pwdisswordfish2 6y ago
This article is rather vacuous. At least he should link to the testimony. However, check out this one by the same author: https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/ep4mx4/yale-antitrust-scholars-resign-because-director-advises-apple-amazon https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/ep4mx4/yale-antitrust-sch...
seibelj 6y ago
It seems to me that the government failed from top to bottom in this pandemic. Leaders, the CDC, the world healthcare organization, the schools and their teachers, and on and on. What succeeded? Private companies like grocery stores, Amazon, delivery companies, internet providers letting us watch the Netflix box all day and work from home. I think the government and critics should take a hard look at themselves before pointing to the horrors of actually functioning enterprises.
- mac01021 6y ago
  What should schools/teachers have done differently? (Just curious)
  - seibelj 6y ago
    Redirected funding to parents to hire their own teachers, or enabled teachers to teach a group of say, 20 students, in a privately provided location to safely continue teaching. The massive population that makes up a school simply doesn’t work in a pandemic, but teachers unions and the institution of public school is too rigid to change whatsoever. They would rather hurt children than adapt, it’s absolutely pathetic and immoral if not evil.
    - thatguy0900 6y ago
      Schools are so underfunded that teachers are commonly expected to buy their own classroom supplies with their own money, I don't know what money you expect to be diverted to parents to hire their own teachers outside of the richest of school districts
      - seibelj 6y ago
        We pay more per pupil in our urban districts than any other western nation. If the money isn’t going to teachers, it’s going to the horrible and inefficient bureaucracy surrounding them. I suggest taking the $15 to $22k we pay per student (depending on the city) and giving it to parents to choose how to spend it instead. I guess I’m the crazy one?
stevespang 6y ago
Yeah, Bezos really heaped it on with his "American Dream" letter, but in the end he is just another MONOPOLY that needs to be castrated - - - just like he did to the bulls on his Grandfather's Ranch . . .
safog 6y ago
I think we should at least first acknowledge that media outlets are by default competitors to and biased against tech platforms. They're not some neutral third parties passively reporting news / opinion as things unfold with old fashioned journalistic integrity. Vice is generally okay, so I'd give them the benefit of the doubt, but think twice before you subscribe to any opinion that the NYTimes / Vox et. al. have about tech.

65 points by elsewhen 6y ago

Article has a lot of complaints about the modern global supply chain, but not much about the tech giants caused it or how eliminating giants would avoid the problem. Cocoa farm slavery is a huge problem even without a huge chocolate company causing it.

zwkrt 6y ago
Let’s take your specific example, even though Nestle isn’t a “tech” company. Does Nestle do everything in its power to ensure it isn’t receiving products from slaves or from wholesalers dealing in slave-produced goods? Does it have as a part of its charter the ethical treatment of all people in its supply chain? Is Nestle doing its best not to do arbitrage on the difference in living standards and regulation that exist on either end of its supply chain? Are Nestles’ investors interested first and foremost in advancing and uplifting the people that ultimately create and consume Nestles products? Does Nestle lobby governments and international bodies to ensure human rights are being upheld? Of course not! The problem is that people fundamentally care more about chocolate Easter eggs than they do about each other. Slavery wouldn’t be a problem if demand for the product wasn’t there. Tech companies exist at the forefront of profiteering by exploiting and reducing inefficiencies in the global market. Jeff Bezos said just as much in his congressional hearing. The problem is that these “inefficiencies” are the lived experiences of the people who actually interact with the tech. Peoples well-being and autonomy and culture are not always diametrically opposed you the interest of these companies, but at best they tend to be orthogonal.

isx726552 6y ago

There was a great comment on Slashdot[0] of all places about today’s hearing which I thought put it into great perspective: > [I]t's a bit of grandstanding and an attempt to take back control of open discourse on the Internet. While they're going after these tech companies they've done fuck all about the massive telecom mergers, the fact that 90% of local TV stations were bought up by Sinclair Media, the massive consolidation in the grocery store business or that fact that every single apartment complex in 50 miles of where I live is owned by one company. I couldn’t agree more. Of all the industries to go after at this time, these tech companies will not have anywhere near the same negative impact on people’s lives as media and housing consolidation. The power grab is happening right under everyone’s noses, and these hearings are nothing but a distraction. [0] https://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=16866313&cid=60344133 https://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=16866313&cid=6034...

rbecker 6y ago
But Facebook and Google are media. Not traditional media, but the power they wield in shaping public debate is similar.
- sjg007 6y ago
  FB and Google should crush Fox News. Of course it won't happen but they should.
hn_throwaway_99 6y ago
Complete whataboutism. Other industries may have consolidated, but considering their market caps are orders of magnitude less than the tech giants, it's not unreasonable to question the extreme power these giants have.
- croutonwagon 6y ago
  I don’t think market cap (especially with tech) directly correlates to social/societal influence The stock market is an okay marker to measure relative value/public confidence in their short term and long term fidelity as a company. But that’s not directly related to influence.
- orwin 6y ago
  I'm absolutely not pro-GAFAM or anything, i don't use 99% their products, i've even left gmail recently (android and Youtube are the only GAFAM products i still use). I don't think market cap is a valid mesuring point. Assets, real-world assets i mean, should be. QE since 2008 is inflating the stock market like crazy - with expected consequences regarding property prices - and market valuation are crazy. If they were not, at least some LBOs attempts would be made. I have found this[0] for revenue, this is an OK metric, not the best for sure, but it show the company participation in the economy (and thus is still better than market cap). [0]https://howmuch.net/articles/worlds-largest-companies-by-revenue https://howmuch.net/articles/worlds-largest-companies-by-rev...
- isx726552 6y ago

op03 6y ago

I feel we need public bug trackers that extend beyond software issues. Where tech companies are creating economic issues, social issues, psychological issues, political issues, legal issues etc there needs to be public bug tracking on each.

np_tedious 6y ago
Neat idea. Issues might need to be a little more freeform than most bug templates. "Acceptance Criteria" would be a difficult field to fill out.

pwdisswordfish2 6y ago

This article is rather vacuous. At least he should link to the testimony. However, check out this one by the same author: https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/ep4mx4/yale-antitrust-scholars-resign-because-director-advises-apple-amazon https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/ep4mx4/yale-antitrust-sch...

seibelj 6y ago

It seems to me that the government failed from top to bottom in this pandemic. Leaders, the CDC, the world healthcare organization, the schools and their teachers, and on and on. What succeeded? Private companies like grocery stores, Amazon, delivery companies, internet providers letting us watch the Netflix box all day and work from home. I think the government and critics should take a hard look at themselves before pointing to the horrors of actually functioning enterprises.

mac01021 6y ago
What should schools/teachers have done differently? (Just curious)
- seibelj 6y ago
  Redirected funding to parents to hire their own teachers, or enabled teachers to teach a group of say, 20 students, in a privately provided location to safely continue teaching. The massive population that makes up a school simply doesn’t work in a pandemic, but teachers unions and the institution of public school is too rigid to change whatsoever. They would rather hurt children than adapt, it’s absolutely pathetic and immoral if not evil.
  - thatguy0900 6y ago
    Schools are so underfunded that teachers are commonly expected to buy their own classroom supplies with their own money, I don't know what money you expect to be diverted to parents to hire their own teachers outside of the richest of school districts
    - seibelj 6y ago
      We pay more per pupil in our urban districts than any other western nation. If the money isn’t going to teachers, it’s going to the horrible and inefficient bureaucracy surrounding them. I suggest taking the $15 to $22k we pay per student (depending on the city) and giving it to parents to choose how to spend it instead. I guess I’m the crazy one?

stevespang 6y ago

Yeah, Bezos really heaped it on with his "American Dream" letter, but in the end he is just another MONOPOLY that needs to be castrated - - - just like he did to the bulls on his Grandfather's Ranch . . .

safog 6y ago

I think we should at least first acknowledge that media outlets are by default competitors to and biased against tech platforms. They're not some neutral third parties passively reporting news / opinion as things unfold with old fashioned journalistic integrity. Vice is generally okay, so I'd give them the benefit of the doubt, but think twice before you subscribe to any opinion that the NYTimes / Vox et. al. have about tech.