10 ms·

For those of us who grew up around guns, your abject horror at an object is as puzzling as someone being terrified of knives or slingshots. Would be nice if cop

For those of us who grew up around guns, your abject horror at an object is as puzzling as someone being terrified of knives or slingshots. Would be nice if cops were all good and could teleport to your location in time of need. Drive an hour outside your city of choice and that ain't gonna happen. Just sharing my own experience, cheers.

jonahbenton 6y ago
Yup, totally get it. Big mental shift. Thank you.
srmatto 6y ago
Is your direct experience that you have actually held/brandished/used a firearm during an event when you were physically threatened? Or is this strictly theoretical?
- saas_sam 6y ago
  My parents did while my house was being broken into one night by multiple men. Semi-rural area. Thankfully they left before anything happened. I have close friends with darker stories.
- jm4 6y ago
  I have. A couple guys came into the house late at night while I was in bed. I was upstairs and they were downstairs. I didn't have a means to escape. Cops can't help in that situation. I confronted them at the stairs and the whole thing de-escalated very quickly. Nobody got hurt. As far as someone sneaking into your house while you sleep, it was pretty much a best case scenario.
  - amanaplanacanal 6y ago
    Stories like this sound so weird to me. Breaking into an occupied house sounds like suicidal behavior. What kind of thought process goes into doing something like that?
    - umvi 6y ago
      It's very rare. Google "Elizabeth Smart" if you want a truly bizarre example of this. Most common burglars only break into empty houses.
    - yeetawayhn 6y ago
      Not sure, but according to Bureau of Justice Statistics, it happens in 27% of burglaries. https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/vdhb.pdf https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/vdhb.pdf
    - jm4 6y ago
      It's borderline suicidal where I live because quite a few houses have guns in them. Every house on my street does. It still happens. I wouldn't say it's often because car break-ins and empty house burglaries are much more common, but it does happen. Attackers pushing their way in as you open the door, attackers posing as some kind of official or salesperson. When the pandemic started, we had guys going around in lab coats saying they were with the CDC. Police response times are generally very good where I live, but guns are still very common and so is concealed carry. The thought behind it for many people is sort of the same as keeping a fire extinguisher in the kitchen. You're not the fire department, but you want to be able to control an emergency until they get there or avoid having an emergency become a catastrophe.
    - artificialLimbs 6y ago
      I'd bet it often starts with "I'm going to do these drugs."
    - smegger001 6y ago
      around where I live its usually meth addicts trying to steal something to pawn and buy more drugs. The meth addicts in that state are not the most rational forward thinking people.
Izkata 6y ago
Even within cities, people have been having that realization over the past two months with how the cops have been unable to keep up with the rioting. Permit applications are up 500% in Illinois, and sales are skyrocketing all over. https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/breaking/ct-chicago-illinois-foid-gun-ammo-sales-uncertainty-20200625-pkve27352jagnp4y5dbaubkyoy-story.html https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/breaking/ct-chicago-illi...
- demygale 6y ago
  The police riots are a problem but I don’t think violence is the answer. Better to just abolish the police.
  - artificialLimbs 6y ago
    Who, exactly, is going to enforce laws?
- jjeaff 6y ago
  Even before all this, unless a cop just happens to be right outside, you are going to wait a long time. The number of stories where someone calls the police while a crime is in progress and the police arrive before the criminal is long gone are near non-existent except in cases of domestic abuse.
dleslie 6y ago
Indeed! Though even in non-rural environments their response times are too low to generally be of assistance in life-threatening violent altercations; and that response time is typically lower in predominantly african american neighbourhoods. It's kind of a mark of white privilege to believe that the police will arrive in time to protect you, and that when they arrive they won't harm you. Even for de-escalating domestic disputes and dealing with petty vandalism and neighbourly feuds they are likely a worse tool than social workers and such.
- defnotashton2 6y ago
  > It's kind of a mark of white privilege to believe that the police will arrive in time to protect you, and that when they arrive they won't harm you. This is a gross overstated political narrative. A) Most police response times are well after most conflicts. B) Poor and targeted neighborhoods often have better response times because of the larger constant police presence. C) Socioeconomic signals predict treatment better than the color of your skin.
  - dleslie 6y ago
    D) Race is strongly correlated with socioeconomic status. E) The police responses in poor and targeted neighbourhoods often involve harming residents and criminalizing the impoverished and racialized. F) 911 is a Joke
christiansakai 6y ago
Why do most developed nations don't let citizens own guns then?
- e12e 6y ago
  Citation needed? I think hunting is allowed most places?
  - kakwa_ 6y ago
    Well, hunting riffles, even if there are extremely common in most countries, specially in rural areas, are hardly in the same class of weapon as a bolt action/(semi-)automatic riffle or an handgun. The latter also has a different goal in mind, being generally used for self protection/deterrence. Also, carrying a gun all the time is extremely uncommon if not forbidden in most European countries if you don't have the proper permits. For example in France, IIRC, you can only get such permit if your professional activity justifies it (Police, Security Guards, etc). Even for recreational/hunting uses you need to be registered, and maybe have a permit, depending on the type of gun. And that's just for ownership, it doesn't grant you the right to carry the weapon loaded and ready to fire.
    - pluto9 6y ago
      > hunting riffles, even if there are extremely common in most countries, specially in rural areas, are hardly in the same class of weapon as a bolt action Hunting rifles are almost always bolt actions.
      - kakwa_ 6y ago
        I'm far from an expert there, but most hunting riffles I've seen, at least here in France, shot shotgun ammunition (birdshots and the like).
- detaro 6y ago
  Most developed nations allow gun ownership to some degree, with large variations in the regulations and limits around it. The US though are quite unique in seeing gun ownership as a basic right, not a privilege granted/earned.
pluto9 6y ago
They often won't show up in a timely manner in the city, either. I once called them because I had broken up a fight and one of the people involved ran back to his apartment to get a pistol and was out in the parking lot with his friends searching for me, pistol in hand. There was a police station less than a mile away and it took them 45 minutes to arrive. No doubt they intended to let events play out however they may and then roll in and take statements, which is their only actual legal obligation. That incident really drove home for me exactly what I'm not getting for my tax dollars.

jonahbenton 6y ago

Yup, totally get it. Big mental shift. Thank you.

srmatto 6y ago

Is your direct experience that you have actually held/brandished/used a firearm during an event when you were physically threatened? Or is this strictly theoretical?

saas_sam 6y ago
My parents did while my house was being broken into one night by multiple men. Semi-rural area. Thankfully they left before anything happened. I have close friends with darker stories.
jm4 6y ago
I have. A couple guys came into the house late at night while I was in bed. I was upstairs and they were downstairs. I didn't have a means to escape. Cops can't help in that situation. I confronted them at the stairs and the whole thing de-escalated very quickly. Nobody got hurt. As far as someone sneaking into your house while you sleep, it was pretty much a best case scenario.
- amanaplanacanal 6y ago
  Stories like this sound so weird to me. Breaking into an occupied house sounds like suicidal behavior. What kind of thought process goes into doing something like that?
  - umvi 6y ago
    It's very rare. Google "Elizabeth Smart" if you want a truly bizarre example of this. Most common burglars only break into empty houses.
  - yeetawayhn 6y ago
    Not sure, but according to Bureau of Justice Statistics, it happens in 27% of burglaries. https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/vdhb.pdf https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/vdhb.pdf
  - jm4 6y ago
    It's borderline suicidal where I live because quite a few houses have guns in them. Every house on my street does. It still happens. I wouldn't say it's often because car break-ins and empty house burglaries are much more common, but it does happen. Attackers pushing their way in as you open the door, attackers posing as some kind of official or salesperson. When the pandemic started, we had guys going around in lab coats saying they were with the CDC. Police response times are generally very good where I live, but guns are still very common and so is concealed carry. The thought behind it for many people is sort of the same as keeping a fire extinguisher in the kitchen. You're not the fire department, but you want to be able to control an emergency until they get there or avoid having an emergency become a catastrophe.
  - artificialLimbs 6y ago
    I'd bet it often starts with "I'm going to do these drugs."
  - smegger001 6y ago
    around where I live its usually meth addicts trying to steal something to pawn and buy more drugs. The meth addicts in that state are not the most rational forward thinking people.

Izkata 6y ago

Even within cities, people have been having that realization over the past two months with how the cops have been unable to keep up with the rioting. Permit applications are up 500% in Illinois, and sales are skyrocketing all over. https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/breaking/ct-chicago-illinois-foid-gun-ammo-sales-uncertainty-20200625-pkve27352jagnp4y5dbaubkyoy-story.html https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/breaking/ct-chicago-illi...

demygale 6y ago
The police riots are a problem but I don’t think violence is the answer. Better to just abolish the police.
- artificialLimbs 6y ago
  Who, exactly, is going to enforce laws?
jjeaff 6y ago
Even before all this, unless a cop just happens to be right outside, you are going to wait a long time. The number of stories where someone calls the police while a crime is in progress and the police arrive before the criminal is long gone are near non-existent except in cases of domestic abuse.

dleslie 6y ago

Indeed! Though even in non-rural environments their response times are too low to generally be of assistance in life-threatening violent altercations; and that response time is typically lower in predominantly african american neighbourhoods. It's kind of a mark of white privilege to believe that the police will arrive in time to protect you, and that when they arrive they won't harm you. Even for de-escalating domestic disputes and dealing with petty vandalism and neighbourly feuds they are likely a worse tool than social workers and such.

defnotashton2 6y ago
> It's kind of a mark of white privilege to believe that the police will arrive in time to protect you, and that when they arrive they won't harm you. This is a gross overstated political narrative. A) Most police response times are well after most conflicts. B) Poor and targeted neighborhoods often have better response times because of the larger constant police presence. C) Socioeconomic signals predict treatment better than the color of your skin.
- dleslie 6y ago
  D) Race is strongly correlated with socioeconomic status. E) The police responses in poor and targeted neighbourhoods often involve harming residents and criminalizing the impoverished and racialized. F) 911 is a Joke

christiansakai 6y ago

Why do most developed nations don't let citizens own guns then?

e12e 6y ago
Citation needed? I think hunting is allowed most places?
- kakwa_ 6y ago
  Well, hunting riffles, even if there are extremely common in most countries, specially in rural areas, are hardly in the same class of weapon as a bolt action/(semi-)automatic riffle or an handgun. The latter also has a different goal in mind, being generally used for self protection/deterrence. Also, carrying a gun all the time is extremely uncommon if not forbidden in most European countries if you don't have the proper permits. For example in France, IIRC, you can only get such permit if your professional activity justifies it (Police, Security Guards, etc). Even for recreational/hunting uses you need to be registered, and maybe have a permit, depending on the type of gun. And that's just for ownership, it doesn't grant you the right to carry the weapon loaded and ready to fire.
  - pluto9 6y ago
    > hunting riffles, even if there are extremely common in most countries, specially in rural areas, are hardly in the same class of weapon as a bolt action Hunting rifles are almost always bolt actions.
    - kakwa_ 6y ago
      I'm far from an expert there, but most hunting riffles I've seen, at least here in France, shot shotgun ammunition (birdshots and the like).
detaro 6y ago
Most developed nations allow gun ownership to some degree, with large variations in the regulations and limits around it. The US though are quite unique in seeing gun ownership as a basic right, not a privilege granted/earned.

pluto9 6y ago

They often won't show up in a timely manner in the city, either. I once called them because I had broken up a fight and one of the people involved ran back to his apartment to get a pistol and was out in the parking lot with his friends searching for me, pistol in hand. There was a police station less than a mile away and it took them 45 minutes to arrive. No doubt they intended to let events play out however they may and then roll in and take statements, which is their only actual legal obligation. That incident really drove home for me exactly what I'm not getting for my tax dollars.