56 ms·

Amazon gets priority while mail gets delayed, say US letter carriers

488 points by 80mph 6y ago

twblalock 6y ago
This is fine with me. Most of the mail I get from the USPS is junk, and the rest is from Amazon and Ebay. I'd prefer to get what I want faster than the junk.
- ex3ndr 6y ago
  Yeah how about non-amazon shops?
  - twblalock 6y ago
    If they were as good as Amazon I would buy from them, but they aren't, so I don't. This is just the USPS giving service to what people care about most. They have no obligation to treat all sources of mail equally. Non-Amazon retailers are of course free to pay for better service, and if they can't afford it, then they don't deserve it. If they were as good as Amazon they could afford it, as a result of customers paying for what they want.
    - lmm 6y ago
      > They have no obligation to treat all sources of mail equally. Yes they do, they have a legal monopoly on certain kinds of delivery and that comes with corresponding obligations.
      - twblalock 6y ago
        No they don't. I don't believe you. Point us to the statute that says they have this obligation.
        _delirium 6y ago
        39 U.S.C. § 101
        twblalock 6y ago
        That doesn't say the USPS has to treat all sources of mail equally. It says they have to deliver to everyone, which they do.
        _delirium 6y ago
        Among other things, it says that the USPS must prioritize expeditious delivery of "important letter mail". This has usually been interpreted to mean that traditional postal service – first-class letter envelopes – must have top priority, above things like package delivery, contracted last-mile Amazon delivery, etc.
        twblalock 6y ago
        That is completely different from treating all mail equally. In fact, it is the opposite of that.
        cryptoz 6y ago
        The linked text clearly states that the Post Office cannot do what it is currently doing. > It shall provide prompt, reliable, and efficient services to patrons in all areas and shall render postal services to all communities. Prompt, reliable and efficient services does not including refusing to deliver priority, directly-paid-for mail on its routes and instead prioritizing other mail based on a political decision from the top ranks. That is not efficient. Prompt. Or reliable.
        twblalock 6y ago
        The law says that the USPS needs to provide services to all communities. It does not say all packages need to be treated equally. Show me where it says that. > Prompt, reliable and efficient services does not including refusing to deliver priority, directly-paid-for mail on its routes and instead prioritizing other mail based on a political decision from the top ranks. That isn't what the statute says. That's your own opinion. Show me where the statute says that.
    - detaro 6y ago
      People care more about amazon packages than paychecks and medication?
  - gspr 6y ago
    Yeah, this is a severe competitiveness inhibitor.
  - stale2002 6y ago
    Well they can pay for priority mail as well if they want that level of service.
    - jfk13 6y ago
      Does Amazon pay extra for priority service? According to the first sentence of the article: > The delivery of first-class and priority mail is being intentionally delayed so that letter carriers can prioritize the delivery of Amazon packages it's priority and first-class mail that is being delayed in favour of (fourth-class) Amazon packages.
      - twblalock 6y ago
        If they pay more, then they should get more. The USPS is not a welfare service. It is supposed to compete now.
- monadic2 6y ago
  You mean like notice from the IRS of a failed payment like I just got through the mail? Court summons? Junk like that?
  - twblalock 6y ago
    If you get more court summons than Amazon packages then you have a problem that can't be solved by the USPS.
    - gspr 6y ago
      It's plenty of a problem if just one doesn't get through.
    - bzb3 6y ago
      Love you.
  - londons_explore 6y ago
    I could totally wait an extra day for those things... It's stuff I have ordered that is the real priority. Terms and conditions changes from my bank I know the law requires them to send me, but I don't really care how long it takes to arrive.
- cryptoz 6y ago
  > According to letter carriers in Portland, it’s medications, paychecks and other first-class mail that’s getting left in the office overnight. They say Amazon packages are taking priority at the order of the postmaster and other supervisors in the building. Medications and paychecks needed by other people are being held up intentionally to make way for Amazon packages. This isn't right, it isn't okay with me, and it shouldn't be okay with you either. Compassion for other humans and their need for paychecks and medicine should absolutely factor into a person's opinion on mail priority. IMO.
  - qroshan 6y ago
    What isn't right is people falling for sensationalist bullshit headlines just because the headlines happen to match their current outrage manufactured by populist politicians/media
- denzil_correa 6y ago
  It’s not fine for some other people. How can we as a society come to a fair proposal for delivery of mail?
ponker 6y ago
Congress fucked over the USPS’ funding so of course the USPS will latch at Bezos’ teat. Adequate funding and salaries is an essential protection against corruption.
scoot_718 6y ago
Amazon have enough money to go get fucked.
yftsui 6y ago
Hmm my local postal office never deliver large Amazon package, they just “attempted delivery at 9am but nobody is home”, then come and leave a note later in the mailbox.
londons_explore 6y ago
Amazon's contract probably pays extra for every parcel delivered on time. Whereas other USPS users just pay to have it delivered 'probably' tomorrow. The way to fix this is to align the incentives... Let any company pay only if delivered by a deadline, and let USPS decide what to deliver first.
- jychang 6y ago
  Additionally, the USPS is incentivized to do this because they’re underfunded. Amazon has money, so they’re forced to do business with who can help pay the bills.
sleepless 6y ago
Do we need "net neutrality" for mail?
- casefields 6y ago
  YES! Repeal the private express statutes. There's zero reason USPS should have a government granted monopoly. Allow them to set their own prices too.
bennyp101 6y ago
I mean, that's certainly one way to make sure you can't vote by mail! But is this not a case of an underfunded agency, that is trying to do its best in a bad time, with no money, and trying to placate those who shout loudest? I'd wager that packages (not just Amazon) make up a lot more post than actual letters nowadays - I know I rarely have any post (although UK) as everything is online - but if people aren't getting their next/same day delivery on time, then they kick off and shout about it - which isn't going to please Amazon, and the USPS don't/can't lose that contract
- eru 6y ago
  Why do postal services even need to be handled by an agency? It's just a normal service like any other. Normal companies do that just fine. As evidenced in lots of history and in other countries around the globe.
  - ianleeclark 6y ago
    Sometimes it's okay to recognize something is a social good. Large swathes of the rural population of the US would be underserved/overcharged (in regards to current levels) for similar levels of service.
    - eru 6y ago
      Is that because there's cross-subsidy from non-rural folks or because you think USPS is more efficient than a private sector alternative would be? Also, even if we accept that the government doing mail delivery is good, why does it need to be a federal agency? Wouldn't this more logically be something for the states to do? But I guess you don't have subsidiarity in the US? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subsidiarity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subsidiarity
      - kevingadd 6y ago
        It's less a matter of efficiency and more a matter of whether service would exist at all. If serving small rural communities isn't profitable, why would a company like UPS or FedEx choose to do it? You'd need to compel them with regulation, they aren't charities. If each state did postal service piecemeal you'd have all sorts of nightmare state-specific pricing, size regulations, delivery schedules, etc. Nobody would benefit from that. Each state would also have to bargain individually with foreign nations about international shipping.
ThePhysicist 6y ago
Well, maybe we need a "delivery neutrality law" as well. In Germany it's the same story, DHL treats Amazon packages with utmost care and always delivers them on time, while anything else gets deprioritized. Guess the delivery companies don't have much choice here as Amazon packages make up 20-30 % of their parcel business now (at least in Germany), especially since Amazon is building up their own logistics in larger cities to compete with them.
- tpetry 6y ago
  And Amazon experimented (or is still experimenting) with building a logistics company to no longer depend on DHL. In the past i got sometimes packages delivered by „Amazon Logistics“ employees.
  - yomly 6y ago
    My understanding is that the infrastructure for Amazon Logistics was added to help scale for the weekend Prime deliveries and Christmas/Black Friday season. But I guess just like AWS was born out of Amazon building internal redundancy for scalability of their compute, Amazon Logistics is paving their way towards being more independent with shipping
  - lol768 6y ago
    > And Amazon experimented (or is still experimenting) with building a logistics company to no longer depend on DHL. In the UK it's been a very long time since I got many parcels from Amazon that weren't delivered by Amazon Logistics. DPD, Royal Mail and other deliveries happen once in a blue moon but Amazon is mostly things on its own now in my experience.
    - chrisseaton 6y ago
      Do you mean actual Amazon Logistics branded vehicles? Where I am Amazon seem to use an independent contractor, and they're brilliant. It's always one of a couple of people I recognise, they have a nice van branded as their own company. It's a great service.
smspf 6y ago
This is sad and wrong at the same time. What if instead of postal services, Amazon required water or electricity to function. They would have payed just enough to get some level of priority (without making the water/electricity companies turn any profit, just keeping them barely alive), so when the grids get overloaded (e.g. during summer), you could run out of water/electricity because your neighbors ordered some useless stuff from Amazon. "We're sorry, you can't turn on your A/C today because your neighbor ordered the new UselessThing, which requires a lot of resources to be delivered. Maybe we'll let you use it tomorrow, unless they order the UselessThing 2.0."
- cnorthwood 6y ago
  I believe this is something that already happens in certain countries with Coca-Cola bottling plants, where when local droughts happen, the plant is protected over the local population.
  - eru 6y ago
    Even in the harshest drought, water for human consumption is a trivial amount. It's usually agriculture (and industry) that's the big consumer. Alas, not many places have functional markets for water, so people can't buy out the farmers' water rights. And it's often use-it-or-lose-it for the farmers. See eg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_trading#Australia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_trading#Australia for what could be done.
ALittleLight 6y ago
My mail is basically advertisements and bills. I'd much prefer the packages I order to get priority.
- ianleeclark 6y ago
  There's more to this than just your personal consumption: absentee voting is likely to be pretty high this year and the mail system is common amongst the incarcerated to speak with their lawyers and loved ones.
  - ALittleLight 6y ago
    Systems shouldn't be optimized for narrow edge cases, like incarcerated mail or mail in ballots, but for the typical case. The majority of all mail is advertisements and bills. I suspect if you asked people to vote, they'd prefer Amazon packages get priority.
    - ianleeclark 6y ago
      > Systems shouldn't be optimized for narrow edge cases, like incarcerated mail or mail in ballots Millions of incarcerated, an entire state for mail-in-ballots--these are very typical use-cases. > I suspect if you asked people to vote, they'd prefer Amazon packages get priority. We've never voted on allowing anti-competitive behavior before, why start now? You just really want your gadgets, don't you?
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - bcrosby95 6y ago
      Maybe any other year, but I'm pretty sure that in 2020 most people in the USA would rather have their vote count than get their Amazon packages quickly.
ShroudedNight 6y ago
> ...which mandates that the agency pre-fund health benefits for retirees up to 2056. On it's face that sounds like an incredibly onerous requirement. Not being a US resident though, it's quite possible it makes sense and my ignorance simply can't tell. Could someone with more insight provide additional context here?
- fluffything 6y ago
  There is a John Oliver's Last Week Tonight episode from a couple of weeks ago about this topic. Completely worth the 20 minutes it takes to watch it.
  - ShroudedNight 6y ago
    Are you referring to the episode[1] (posted May 10th) or was there another, more recent one? [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoL8g0W9gAQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoL8g0W9gAQ
    - fluffything 6y ago
      Yes, that's the one.
    - throwaway0a5e 6y ago
      I can't watch right now but does he do a decently bipartisan take on it? At the time the requirement to fund pensions through 2050ish was passed it got support from republicans who wanted to make life financially harder for USPS and democrats who wanted to guarantee that employees (union employees, so making sure they get a good deal is even more important) would be provided for and that USPS couldn't weasel out of it's obligations as part of a future bailout, perhaps by a congress that would have given employees the shaft.
      - tehwebguy 6y ago
        I’m always looking for videos that “debunk” Oliver to make sure I’m getting reasonable information but I never find any. Not sure if this means he’s usually right or not!
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
fkeoeeocncn 6y ago
Heard of email, America?
- garmaine 6y ago
  You can deliver physical goods by email?
LatteLazy 6y ago
ITT, people hate on amazon without reading the article.
nomercy400 6y ago
The real issue here is the fact that the USPS is overloaded and requires extra government attention. If you don't properly fund and support you public postal service, you don't get on-time mail deliveries. Maybe that is the issue. This has little to do with Amazon. Amazon is paying the USPS according to their contract. If the contract from 2013 is unsatisfactory, then it should be renegotiated by USPS. I wouldn't be surprised if it is a 10-year deal, and has hefty fines for late deliveries. A journalist should be able to request the contract and see why USPS is now overloaded: Is it because USPS is not receiving enough funding from the government, or because the contract with Amazon is really bad for USPS. It sounds like the fact that Amazon is shipping so many parcels is a symptom, not the (systemic) cause of why parcels aren't shipped on time. If the USPS is to blame, then who made this deal and what were their reasons? Was it a national deal? Why is it a problem now? Why wasn't this anticipated? And how can it be avoided in the future? Aren't contracts of the government with private parties publically accessible? I mean, you, the taxpayer, pay for the contract so you should have access to it, as well be able to check on the government's workings. At least, that's how we do things in europe.
- _AzMoo 6y ago
  In Australia often contracts between Government and a private-entity are declared commercial-in-confidence to prevent disclosure of information that could affect the private entity. I wouldn't be surprised if this is common in the US as well.
  - microcolonel 6y ago
    In Australia (and in Canada) the government's post office has been corporatized (in Canada, closer to privatized) in a way which tends to have it set postage such that it covers its own costs. The USPS is complicated in this respect, it is partially corporatized, but it often runs deficits.
    - Ensorceled 6y ago
      Canada Post is still a Crown Corporation, as it has been since it was "corporatized" the early 80's; so "closer to privatized" doesn't really make any sense.
amelius 6y ago
USPS should start their own e-commerce website. "Amazon" is a utility.
barnabee 6y ago
Honestly this (or, at leasst, prioritisation of parcels over letters and printed paper) is the right way round. If it were practical I'd back an actual and punitive financial tax on sending anything via the post that could be communicated electronically instead. Waste of paper and resources.
praveen9920 6y ago
> he suspected the practice was in response to pressure from superiors on the national level. This I think is the interesting part of the news.
- paulcole 6y ago
  What rank-and-file boots-on-the-ground employee of a mega-corp who works at a local office doesn’t think the clueless paper-pushing bozos at the head office are the ones cramming through bad decisions?
Threeve303 6y ago
The postal service is one of the only ways for democracy to happen this year. Amazon and USPS has been strategically linked by groups that dislike both organizations. First people are told that vote by mail leads to fraud and secondly that Amazon is deeply political and against the current power in Washington. Throw in ownership of the Washington Post, and you a suddenly have a good recipe for a fake news conspiracy to rile up the base with in an election year. Benjamin Franklin knew the power of the post office in the 1700s. They were smart enough back then to know that people spread out to different geographic areas needed a legitimate way to vote and communicate. He also knew that this system should retain some form of government control because the amount of information moving around inside the post office could be used by private parties to influence government affairs. Other than the political angle, the attacks you see against the USPS are simply about money. Over the years, in the rush to privatize, the USPS was set on the path to be a private company. Their idea was you remove funding from USPS, make insane capital requirements for future commitments that no other company has to do, then wait until they have massive capital expenditures. The old mail trucks we are are familiar with have supposedly been catching on fire because they are way past their service dates. As far as I know, the USPS does not have a plan for replacements for these outdated vehicles, and even if they did, where is the money going to come from? Last point in my rant is that you could ask probably half the country or more if Amazon helped bankrupt USPS. I bet many would say yes because that is what they have heard or read in articles. Amazons contract likely provided needed capital to keep USPS going since 2013. Instead, the people who have been actively trying to bankrupt the USPS for more than 30 years are now trying to blame the main private sector company that supports it. It's all lies, as usual. The post office has some of the best main street real estate all across the country. Any political crony knows that if they can get their hands on that after being privatized, the control over information in the mail system, and the value of the land all across the country, would turn that crony into quite an oligarch. TLDR; Support your local post office if you care about democracy
tunnuz 6y ago
This is also the case in Italy as far as I know. I was a mailman for the Italian mail service for some months in the summer of 2019. We were encouraged to give priority to paid work (advertisement, other deliveries). Mail doesn’t make any money, it’s just a public service. Which is why the postal service also does banking and has its own mobile carrier. These things pay for the public mail service to work. Anyway this is the case in Italy so maybe it’s not relevant.
- vstm 6y ago
  Yeah it's a similar situation in Switzerland. Not sure about the prioritization of deliveries though but the postal service started to offer different kind of services (like starting a bank "Postfinance" [which I guess is a swiss thing to do], or selling office supplies). In general: revenue from mail is down but revenue from parcel is up. Also during the COVID-lockdown people started ordering shit online like crazy, so there were of course delays and problems.
shadowgovt 6y ago
That makes sense. Amazon is mostly packages people ordered that they want. Mail is mostly junk mailers that people didn't order. Customer satisfaction is optimized by getting the Amazon packages routed higher priority.
- drawkbox 6y ago
  With deliveries up in volume due to the pandemic, it is a failure of leadership that the USPS didn't get more funding and support. This is the time you want more deliveries over in person interactions, of course people will ship more, but they are expected to roll with the support of a time without such a spike in demand. Essentially these are holiday level volume numbers with regular time funding. As a taxpayer, I want money I pay going to the USPS, it is extremely valuable infrastructure for the last mile, small business and big business as seen here with Amazon. Without the USPS, and the Universal Postal Union (UPU) [1], shipping would be much more expensive. It really is a sort of loss leader service that fuels so many other economic network effects. The UPU and USPS are some of the best ever public services created and one area where the world gets along, anyone attacking it should be immediately ejected from power. Any infrastructure bill should include shoring up the USPS and expanding it, possibly including banking again and financial services that can be attained by the unbankable. USPS is required infrastructure, the lack of care about it is short-sighted and inexcusable. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Postal_Union https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Postal_Union
- arbuge 6y ago
  Did you read the article? Do you work for Amazon perhaps? Amazon is not the only ecommerce company in existence. The article clearly states in its 3rd paragraph that packages (not junk mail) from other senders are being delayed in favor of Amazon packages: "...willfully delaying thousands of first-class and priority parcels so that fourth-class Amazon parcels can go out for delivery instead"
  - dang 6y ago
    "Did you read the article" and "Do you work for Amazon" both break the site guidelines. Please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when posting here. Your comment would be just fine without those bits.
clarkevans 6y ago
The USPS provides universal service, especially to areas that are unprofitable. Moreover, congress sets their rates instead of letting market forces determine rates. Finally, they are under retirement funding rules that commercial carriers are not. Then, after being required to run unprofitably, legislators observe that the USPS is not competitive? One can't help but wonder if Amazon wants to pull up the ladder behind them.
- agloeregrets 6y ago
  That’s why Amazon built their own Shipping network now. They only use USPS where it makes financial sense, notably often in the Midwest or in places where they don’t have other deliveries. They are rapidly gaining competitive advantages that cannot be equaled without billions in investment.
heliodor 6y ago
The only meaningful mail most people get is packages, so from that point of view, this headline is a good thing not a bad thing.
- take_a_breath 6y ago
  This is not true for much of society. Many, many people receive important documents in the mail: voter IDs, driver’s licenses, voting forms, Medicare and Social Security forms, utility bills, mortgage statements, IRS docs, unemployment benefits, and more. These all seem pretty meaningful, no?
  - joncrane 6y ago
    Yes but who orders a shiny new utility bill and obsessively tracks its progress until it's finally delivered and they can joyfully unbox it? Who orders their mortgage statement and medicare form and forcefully complains to the ombudsman when they come late three times in a row?
    - take_a_breath 6y ago
      People who are struggling to make payments or rely on Medicare for their health? Is it really so hard to imagine how other people live their lives differently?
    - delfinom 6y ago
      Some of us that recognize the severe damage that can be inflicted on you if said documents were to fall into the wrong hands because most companies don't give a shit and allow their CSR to be socially engineered into fucking someone over?
  - heliodor 6y ago
    They are important but packages far outnumbers it.
cphoover 6y ago
Good. How often is mail something I need vs spam, or things that could be emailed to me or sent digitally. Amazon are things I needed delivered.
briandear 6y ago
If the USPS would stop filling my box with pounds of junk newsprint and other spam, then I might be sympathetic. Amazon sends me stuff I ask for. The majority of stuff USPS sends me goes directly in the trash. It shouldn’t be allowed to send people bulk mail unless that person opts in. Mailbox spam is worse than digital spam because there is a distinct environmental cost to printing so much crap. USPS shouldn’t be providing discounted services for anyone.
tmaly 6y ago
We are still paying for full prime and I have not seen 2 day shipping in ages.
codecrusade 6y ago
Break Amazon up. Its a monopoly.
bawana 6y ago
Amazon is more of a threat to the ‘American way of life’ than Communism ever was.
- codecrusade 6y ago
  Yes but I will get downvoted as the HN mafia is deep funded by Amazon
- bawana 6y ago
  obviously, bezos downvoted my comment. I dont think they are bad, they are just too big - and monopolies are breeding ground for evil.
codecrusade 6y ago
Amazon is a monopoly. Antitrust law to be invoked
psim1 6y ago
Fine with me. I pay Amazon $129 per year for Prime service and if this is one of the ways they arrange it, great. What else comes by mail? Junk, or bills that are due in 3-4 weeks, or statements. First class mail was always kind of variable in delivery speed anyway.
fortran77 6y ago
It's not so crazy that the highest rate mail goes through (if that's the case) at the expense of bulk-rate mail. But if first-class and priority mail is being delayed, as is being alleged, that's a problem. People aren't getting the service they paid for.
tebruno99 6y ago
There is other mail than Amazon packages?
vmchale 6y ago
Isn't this whole thing started because trump is trying to get back at Bezos? He's mad because Bezos owns the Washington Post.
- propogandist 6y ago
  so you're telling me because Trump is trying to get back at Bezos, he's telling the Postmaster to prioritize Amazon's packages over regular mail delivery? Do you believe Russia is involved in this too?
  - vmchale 6y ago
    No, he's angry at the USPS for not charging Jeff Bezos more. He has tweets ranting about them.
rovr138 6y ago
Where’s the bottleneck? A lot of USPS is via trucks, but what about planes? Don’t they do freight via commercial airlines? Could it be a backlog that’s just increasing?
smileybarry 6y ago
This is true overseas as well. Israel Post used to have huge issues with deliverability, but whenever an Amazon package showed up they'd get priority and was rarely, almost never, lost or delayed. In fact, they even have a partnership now and text you when an Amazon package arrived ("a package has arrived from Amazon") but not always when another vendor's package arrives, even if there's a phone number attached to it.
crazygringo 6y ago
Aside from this article and similar, I can't find any credible confirmation that Amazon packages are delivered "fourth-class" or what that means. After all, big bulky boxes are hardly competing against catalogs for space in the mail truck, the differences in size are so huge. Amazon has a private contract with the USPS that presumably puts it in its own unique category regardless of other labels, and the USPS likely loses money for late delivery, so this is just things operating how they're intended to operate. The real problem is politics that doesn't give the USPS the flexibility to expand. I live in Brooklyn and haven't gotten a single package delivered on time by the USPS in the past 3 months, always 1-3 days late. Any normal business hires more employees as business booms, and remember the USPS makes money off Amazon. Unfortunately, the USPS is so hamstrung by politicians that it can't simply expand to meet demand, the way e.g. Amazon Fresh has.
thatguy0900 6y ago
Well 95% of the letters I receive go straight into the trash can, so I'm really not too concerned if it's delayed
softwaredoug 6y ago
I am worried what's going to happen with big vote-by-mail election. How much chaos will ensue with an overwhelmed USPS? We've already seen elections with ballot invalidation rates of 25% in NYC with some of the primaries. A lot had to do with postmark dates and signatures.
- jeffbee 6y ago
  In my county (in California) there are dedicated ballot boxes that are not serviced by the post office. The ballots are collected from the boxes by county election officials. Is this not a thing in other states?
  - johnl1479 6y ago
    Washington State is entirely vote-by-mail, and we have the option of returning to drop boxes located at libraries or city halls and well as mailing them in. My anecdotal observation is that the majority of people use the drop boxes, but that was also pre-pandemic.
  - softwaredoug 6y ago
    I'm more thinking of states that have never voted by mail. We don't understand the protocol, and there's unlikely to be any feedback whether our vote counted. Likely to be many administrative snafus An example recently is some of the New York primaries where up to 25% of ballots were rejected - https://twitter.com/Redistrict/status/1287416969231302658 https://twitter.com/Redistrict/status/1287416969231302658
  - jpindar 6y ago
    In at least some states it is - here in NH we can bring absentee ballots to our town clerk's office - but apparently many people don't know about it.
myself248 6y ago
One of my COVID resolutions has been to aggressively attack every source of junkmail I can find. I figure, reducing the load in my mailbox (my actual goal; I haaaaate dead-tree mail) will have the collateral benefit of reducing the load on the carrier's shoulder. I've enjoyed partial success so far, but just fired another volley of unsubscribes yesterday. We'll see.
- kup0 6y ago
  So far- have you found any particular methods to be the most effective? (Return postage envelopes with a form letter, online tools, other options) My grandma, who passed a bit less than two years ago is still receiving all sorts of junk mail. I have tried unsubscribing normal ways from some of it (online forms, etc) and none of that seems to work at all. I do use the "do not mail" junk mail opt-outs which has reduced the volume that comes in both her name and mine, but there's still loads of "previously accepted/subscribed-to mail" that I can't seem to put a stop to- even if I use the publisher/sender's preferred opt-out method.
  - myself248 6y ago
    I used to get a TON of mail for the guy who previously lived at my address. Even eight years after he moved. So I'd call the various companies and ask them to stop. And one miraculous time, I ended up talking with a rep who told me The Secret. Paraphrasing: "I can remove him from our database, but he'll be back in a few weeks when we do our next import from the credit brokers. That's where you need to focus your effort, try Equifax." Funny thing was, I could not find a form for "My name is Alice and I swear Bob no longer lives at 123 Main", but I could find a form for "My name is Bob and I swear I no longer live at 123 Main". So I filled that out, didn't sign it, and sent it in. It slowed to a trickle within a month or two, and all but stopped within a year after that. I just filled out https://pc2.mypreferences.com/Comcast/OptOut/Default.aspx https://pc2.mypreferences.com/Comcast/OptOut/Default.aspx so we'll see if that stems the deluge of Xfinity mailers...
sneak 6y ago
Are Amazon packages not also “mail” once they have paid the USPS?
beepboopbeep 6y ago
The post office has been unduly laden with nonsense financial restrictions by the GOP in two presidencies now (Bush and Trump). Put another way, they've purposefully sabotaged one of the oldest institutions in America in order to crater it on behalf of private businesses. Are there things that can be changed at USPS? Certainly, but they are not the primary cause of distress for this institution. See also: The current assault against the NHS in the U.K.
erichocean 6y ago
USPS sent tens of thousands of ePacket (international air mail) packages by boat recently—supposedly the first time in history they've done that. Instead of shipments arriving in 1-2 weeks, they took 6-12 weeks. Completely screwed people over. Our organization has now dropped USPS entirely for international shipments, and we spend a few million annually on shipping. There was also a massive rate increase recently, particularly to the UK, that has made USPS far less competitive compared to other shippers.
lrnStats 6y ago
A fortune 500 company gets special government privileges that a regular citizen does not? I'm shocked /s I wonder if there are billionaires that don't use tax dollars for profit.
ngngngng 6y ago
[]
- freeqaz 6y ago
  Funny, this was the inverse of my experience growing up in Hawaii. UPS and Fedex were an hour drive to get the package. USPS would bring to the post office down the road. I always tried to get USPS whenever I could
yboris 6y ago
I've always thought it inefficient to have mail delivered every day. Doing deliveries every other day seems like would be an easy way to save money. No?
aaroninsf 6y ago
This is the logical analog to and extension of the assault on net neutrality. The reasons this is a fatal stance in a functional first-world democracy are identical.
CarbyAu 6y ago
Many comments about overtime being banned as though it is a bad thing. My understanding was that "Overtime" was meant to be used sparingly for short term circumstances - not for months on end - to avoid burnout. From a labour cost point of view, most places pay penalty rates for overtime. Often 20% to 50%. Or maybe that is my naive view here in Australia. So wouldn't it be cheaper to just hire more employees/daytime contractors? Plenty of people looking for work I hear.
prirun 6y ago
I cannot believe with the decrease in 1st-class mail that the USPS is still running delivery trucks 6 days per week to every house. It's a complete waste of resources. They should go to 3 days per week, then cut back to 2, and maybe even just 1 per week. Since the pandemic, I have been leaving my mail in the box and getting it Sunday night. You know what I'm missing? Nothing! There may be 2-3 pieces of mail plus some junk mail, and I don't get email delivery of any bills: it's all physical mail. Most people do not care if they get junk mail plus a few bills every day or once a week. They do care if they get their Amazon packages delivered. So to me, it's perfectly reasonable to delay 1st-class mail and prioritize, uh, "priority mail".

488 points by 80mph 6y ago

This is fine with me. Most of the mail I get from the USPS is junk, and the rest is from Amazon and Ebay. I'd prefer to get what I want faster than the junk.

ex3ndr 6y ago
Yeah how about non-amazon shops?
- twblalock 6y ago
  If they were as good as Amazon I would buy from them, but they aren't, so I don't. This is just the USPS giving service to what people care about most. They have no obligation to treat all sources of mail equally. Non-Amazon retailers are of course free to pay for better service, and if they can't afford it, then they don't deserve it. If they were as good as Amazon they could afford it, as a result of customers paying for what they want.
  - lmm 6y ago
    > They have no obligation to treat all sources of mail equally. Yes they do, they have a legal monopoly on certain kinds of delivery and that comes with corresponding obligations.
    - twblalock 6y ago
      No they don't. I don't believe you. Point us to the statute that says they have this obligation.
      - _delirium 6y ago
        39 U.S.C. § 101
        twblalock 6y ago
        That doesn't say the USPS has to treat all sources of mail equally. It says they have to deliver to everyone, which they do.
        _delirium 6y ago
        Among other things, it says that the USPS must prioritize expeditious delivery of "important letter mail". This has usually been interpreted to mean that traditional postal service – first-class letter envelopes – must have top priority, above things like package delivery, contracted last-mile Amazon delivery, etc.
        twblalock 6y ago
        That is completely different from treating all mail equally. In fact, it is the opposite of that.
        cryptoz 6y ago
        The linked text clearly states that the Post Office cannot do what it is currently doing. > It shall provide prompt, reliable, and efficient services to patrons in all areas and shall render postal services to all communities. Prompt, reliable and efficient services does not including refusing to deliver priority, directly-paid-for mail on its routes and instead prioritizing other mail based on a political decision from the top ranks. That is not efficient. Prompt. Or reliable.
        twblalock 6y ago
        The law says that the USPS needs to provide services to all communities. It does not say all packages need to be treated equally. Show me where it says that. > Prompt, reliable and efficient services does not including refusing to deliver priority, directly-paid-for mail on its routes and instead prioritizing other mail based on a political decision from the top ranks. That isn't what the statute says. That's your own opinion. Show me where the statute says that.
  - detaro 6y ago
    People care more about amazon packages than paychecks and medication?
- gspr 6y ago
  Yeah, this is a severe competitiveness inhibitor.
- stale2002 6y ago
  Well they can pay for priority mail as well if they want that level of service.
  - jfk13 6y ago
    Does Amazon pay extra for priority service? According to the first sentence of the article: > The delivery of first-class and priority mail is being intentionally delayed so that letter carriers can prioritize the delivery of Amazon packages it's priority and first-class mail that is being delayed in favour of (fourth-class) Amazon packages.
    - twblalock 6y ago
      If they pay more, then they should get more. The USPS is not a welfare service. It is supposed to compete now.
monadic2 6y ago
You mean like notice from the IRS of a failed payment like I just got through the mail? Court summons? Junk like that?
- twblalock 6y ago
  If you get more court summons than Amazon packages then you have a problem that can't be solved by the USPS.
  - gspr 6y ago
    It's plenty of a problem if just one doesn't get through.
  - bzb3 6y ago
    Love you.
- londons_explore 6y ago
  I could totally wait an extra day for those things... It's stuff I have ordered that is the real priority. Terms and conditions changes from my bank I know the law requires them to send me, but I don't really care how long it takes to arrive.
cryptoz 6y ago
> According to letter carriers in Portland, it’s medications, paychecks and other first-class mail that’s getting left in the office overnight. They say Amazon packages are taking priority at the order of the postmaster and other supervisors in the building. Medications and paychecks needed by other people are being held up intentionally to make way for Amazon packages. This isn't right, it isn't okay with me, and it shouldn't be okay with you either. Compassion for other humans and their need for paychecks and medicine should absolutely factor into a person's opinion on mail priority. IMO.
- qroshan 6y ago
  What isn't right is people falling for sensationalist bullshit headlines just because the headlines happen to match their current outrage manufactured by populist politicians/media
denzil_correa 6y ago
It’s not fine for some other people. How can we as a society come to a fair proposal for delivery of mail?

ponker 6y ago

Congress fucked over the USPS’ funding so of course the USPS will latch at Bezos’ teat. Adequate funding and salaries is an essential protection against corruption.

scoot_718 6y ago

Amazon have enough money to go get fucked.

yftsui 6y ago

Hmm my local postal office never deliver large Amazon package, they just “attempted delivery at 9am but nobody is home”, then come and leave a note later in the mailbox.

londons_explore 6y ago

Amazon's contract probably pays extra for every parcel delivered on time. Whereas other USPS users just pay to have it delivered 'probably' tomorrow. The way to fix this is to align the incentives... Let any company pay only if delivered by a deadline, and let USPS decide what to deliver first.

jychang 6y ago
Additionally, the USPS is incentivized to do this because they’re underfunded. Amazon has money, so they’re forced to do business with who can help pay the bills.

sleepless 6y ago

Do we need "net neutrality" for mail?

casefields 6y ago
YES! Repeal the private express statutes. There's zero reason USPS should have a government granted monopoly. Allow them to set their own prices too.

bennyp101 6y ago

I mean, that's certainly one way to make sure you can't vote by mail! But is this not a case of an underfunded agency, that is trying to do its best in a bad time, with no money, and trying to placate those who shout loudest? I'd wager that packages (not just Amazon) make up a lot more post than actual letters nowadays - I know I rarely have any post (although UK) as everything is online - but if people aren't getting their next/same day delivery on time, then they kick off and shout about it - which isn't going to please Amazon, and the USPS don't/can't lose that contract

eru 6y ago
Why do postal services even need to be handled by an agency? It's just a normal service like any other. Normal companies do that just fine. As evidenced in lots of history and in other countries around the globe.
- ianleeclark 6y ago
  Sometimes it's okay to recognize something is a social good. Large swathes of the rural population of the US would be underserved/overcharged (in regards to current levels) for similar levels of service.
  - eru 6y ago
    Is that because there's cross-subsidy from non-rural folks or because you think USPS is more efficient than a private sector alternative would be? Also, even if we accept that the government doing mail delivery is good, why does it need to be a federal agency? Wouldn't this more logically be something for the states to do? But I guess you don't have subsidiarity in the US? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subsidiarity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subsidiarity
    - kevingadd 6y ago
      It's less a matter of efficiency and more a matter of whether service would exist at all. If serving small rural communities isn't profitable, why would a company like UPS or FedEx choose to do it? You'd need to compel them with regulation, they aren't charities. If each state did postal service piecemeal you'd have all sorts of nightmare state-specific pricing, size regulations, delivery schedules, etc. Nobody would benefit from that. Each state would also have to bargain individually with foreign nations about international shipping.

ThePhysicist 6y ago

Well, maybe we need a "delivery neutrality law" as well. In Germany it's the same story, DHL treats Amazon packages with utmost care and always delivers them on time, while anything else gets deprioritized. Guess the delivery companies don't have much choice here as Amazon packages make up 20-30 % of their parcel business now (at least in Germany), especially since Amazon is building up their own logistics in larger cities to compete with them.

tpetry 6y ago
And Amazon experimented (or is still experimenting) with building a logistics company to no longer depend on DHL. In the past i got sometimes packages delivered by „Amazon Logistics“ employees.
- yomly 6y ago
  My understanding is that the infrastructure for Amazon Logistics was added to help scale for the weekend Prime deliveries and Christmas/Black Friday season. But I guess just like AWS was born out of Amazon building internal redundancy for scalability of their compute, Amazon Logistics is paving their way towards being more independent with shipping
- lol768 6y ago
  > And Amazon experimented (or is still experimenting) with building a logistics company to no longer depend on DHL. In the UK it's been a very long time since I got many parcels from Amazon that weren't delivered by Amazon Logistics. DPD, Royal Mail and other deliveries happen once in a blue moon but Amazon is mostly things on its own now in my experience.
  - chrisseaton 6y ago
    Do you mean actual Amazon Logistics branded vehicles? Where I am Amazon seem to use an independent contractor, and they're brilliant. It's always one of a couple of people I recognise, they have a nice van branded as their own company. It's a great service.

smspf 6y ago

This is sad and wrong at the same time. What if instead of postal services, Amazon required water or electricity to function. They would have payed just enough to get some level of priority (without making the water/electricity companies turn any profit, just keeping them barely alive), so when the grids get overloaded (e.g. during summer), you could run out of water/electricity because your neighbors ordered some useless stuff from Amazon. "We're sorry, you can't turn on your A/C today because your neighbor ordered the new UselessThing, which requires a lot of resources to be delivered. Maybe we'll let you use it tomorrow, unless they order the UselessThing 2.0."

cnorthwood 6y ago
I believe this is something that already happens in certain countries with Coca-Cola bottling plants, where when local droughts happen, the plant is protected over the local population.
- eru 6y ago
  Even in the harshest drought, water for human consumption is a trivial amount. It's usually agriculture (and industry) that's the big consumer. Alas, not many places have functional markets for water, so people can't buy out the farmers' water rights. And it's often use-it-or-lose-it for the farmers. See eg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_trading#Australia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_trading#Australia for what could be done.

ALittleLight 6y ago

My mail is basically advertisements and bills. I'd much prefer the packages I order to get priority.

ianleeclark 6y ago
There's more to this than just your personal consumption: absentee voting is likely to be pretty high this year and the mail system is common amongst the incarcerated to speak with their lawyers and loved ones.
- ALittleLight 6y ago
  Systems shouldn't be optimized for narrow edge cases, like incarcerated mail or mail in ballots, but for the typical case. The majority of all mail is advertisements and bills. I suspect if you asked people to vote, they'd prefer Amazon packages get priority.
  - ianleeclark 6y ago
    > Systems shouldn't be optimized for narrow edge cases, like incarcerated mail or mail in ballots Millions of incarcerated, an entire state for mail-in-ballots--these are very typical use-cases. > I suspect if you asked people to vote, they'd prefer Amazon packages get priority. We've never voted on allowing anti-competitive behavior before, why start now? You just really want your gadgets, don't you?
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - bcrosby95 6y ago
    Maybe any other year, but I'm pretty sure that in 2020 most people in the USA would rather have their vote count than get their Amazon packages quickly.

ShroudedNight 6y ago

> ...which mandates that the agency pre-fund health benefits for retirees up to 2056. On it's face that sounds like an incredibly onerous requirement. Not being a US resident though, it's quite possible it makes sense and my ignorance simply can't tell. Could someone with more insight provide additional context here?

fluffything 6y ago
There is a John Oliver's Last Week Tonight episode from a couple of weeks ago about this topic. Completely worth the 20 minutes it takes to watch it.
- ShroudedNight 6y ago
  Are you referring to the episode[1] (posted May 10th) or was there another, more recent one? [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoL8g0W9gAQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoL8g0W9gAQ
  - fluffything 6y ago
    Yes, that's the one.
  - throwaway0a5e 6y ago
    I can't watch right now but does he do a decently bipartisan take on it? At the time the requirement to fund pensions through 2050ish was passed it got support from republicans who wanted to make life financially harder for USPS and democrats who wanted to guarantee that employees (union employees, so making sure they get a good deal is even more important) would be provided for and that USPS couldn't weasel out of it's obligations as part of a future bailout, perhaps by a congress that would have given employees the shaft.
    - tehwebguy 6y ago
      I’m always looking for videos that “debunk” Oliver to make sure I’m getting reasonable information but I never find any. Not sure if this means he’s usually right or not!

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

fkeoeeocncn 6y ago

Heard of email, America?

garmaine 6y ago
You can deliver physical goods by email?

LatteLazy 6y ago

ITT, people hate on amazon without reading the article.

nomercy400 6y ago

The real issue here is the fact that the USPS is overloaded and requires extra government attention. If you don't properly fund and support you public postal service, you don't get on-time mail deliveries. Maybe that is the issue. This has little to do with Amazon. Amazon is paying the USPS according to their contract. If the contract from 2013 is unsatisfactory, then it should be renegotiated by USPS. I wouldn't be surprised if it is a 10-year deal, and has hefty fines for late deliveries. A journalist should be able to request the contract and see why USPS is now overloaded: Is it because USPS is not receiving enough funding from the government, or because the contract with Amazon is really bad for USPS. It sounds like the fact that Amazon is shipping so many parcels is a symptom, not the (systemic) cause of why parcels aren't shipped on time. If the USPS is to blame, then who made this deal and what were their reasons? Was it a national deal? Why is it a problem now? Why wasn't this anticipated? And how can it be avoided in the future? Aren't contracts of the government with private parties publically accessible? I mean, you, the taxpayer, pay for the contract so you should have access to it, as well be able to check on the government's workings. At least, that's how we do things in europe.

_AzMoo 6y ago
In Australia often contracts between Government and a private-entity are declared commercial-in-confidence to prevent disclosure of information that could affect the private entity. I wouldn't be surprised if this is common in the US as well.
- microcolonel 6y ago
  In Australia (and in Canada) the government's post office has been corporatized (in Canada, closer to privatized) in a way which tends to have it set postage such that it covers its own costs. The USPS is complicated in this respect, it is partially corporatized, but it often runs deficits.
  - Ensorceled 6y ago
    Canada Post is still a Crown Corporation, as it has been since it was "corporatized" the early 80's; so "closer to privatized" doesn't really make any sense.

amelius 6y ago

USPS should start their own e-commerce website. "Amazon" is a utility.

barnabee 6y ago

Honestly this (or, at leasst, prioritisation of parcels over letters and printed paper) is the right way round. If it were practical I'd back an actual and punitive financial tax on sending anything via the post that could be communicated electronically instead. Waste of paper and resources.

praveen9920 6y ago

> he suspected the practice was in response to pressure from superiors on the national level. This I think is the interesting part of the news.

paulcole 6y ago
What rank-and-file boots-on-the-ground employee of a mega-corp who works at a local office doesn’t think the clueless paper-pushing bozos at the head office are the ones cramming through bad decisions?

Threeve303 6y ago

The postal service is one of the only ways for democracy to happen this year. Amazon and USPS has been strategically linked by groups that dislike both organizations. First people are told that vote by mail leads to fraud and secondly that Amazon is deeply political and against the current power in Washington. Throw in ownership of the Washington Post, and you a suddenly have a good recipe for a fake news conspiracy to rile up the base with in an election year. Benjamin Franklin knew the power of the post office in the 1700s. They were smart enough back then to know that people spread out to different geographic areas needed a legitimate way to vote and communicate. He also knew that this system should retain some form of government control because the amount of information moving around inside the post office could be used by private parties to influence government affairs. Other than the political angle, the attacks you see against the USPS are simply about money. Over the years, in the rush to privatize, the USPS was set on the path to be a private company. Their idea was you remove funding from USPS, make insane capital requirements for future commitments that no other company has to do, then wait until they have massive capital expenditures. The old mail trucks we are are familiar with have supposedly been catching on fire because they are way past their service dates. As far as I know, the USPS does not have a plan for replacements for these outdated vehicles, and even if they did, where is the money going to come from? Last point in my rant is that you could ask probably half the country or more if Amazon helped bankrupt USPS. I bet many would say yes because that is what they have heard or read in articles. Amazons contract likely provided needed capital to keep USPS going since 2013. Instead, the people who have been actively trying to bankrupt the USPS for more than 30 years are now trying to blame the main private sector company that supports it. It's all lies, as usual. The post office has some of the best main street real estate all across the country. Any political crony knows that if they can get their hands on that after being privatized, the control over information in the mail system, and the value of the land all across the country, would turn that crony into quite an oligarch. TLDR; Support your local post office if you care about democracy

tunnuz 6y ago

This is also the case in Italy as far as I know. I was a mailman for the Italian mail service for some months in the summer of 2019. We were encouraged to give priority to paid work (advertisement, other deliveries). Mail doesn’t make any money, it’s just a public service. Which is why the postal service also does banking and has its own mobile carrier. These things pay for the public mail service to work. Anyway this is the case in Italy so maybe it’s not relevant.

vstm 6y ago
Yeah it's a similar situation in Switzerland. Not sure about the prioritization of deliveries though but the postal service started to offer different kind of services (like starting a bank "Postfinance" [which I guess is a swiss thing to do], or selling office supplies). In general: revenue from mail is down but revenue from parcel is up. Also during the COVID-lockdown people started ordering shit online like crazy, so there were of course delays and problems.

shadowgovt 6y ago

That makes sense. Amazon is mostly packages people ordered that they want. Mail is mostly junk mailers that people didn't order. Customer satisfaction is optimized by getting the Amazon packages routed higher priority.

drawkbox 6y ago
With deliveries up in volume due to the pandemic, it is a failure of leadership that the USPS didn't get more funding and support. This is the time you want more deliveries over in person interactions, of course people will ship more, but they are expected to roll with the support of a time without such a spike in demand. Essentially these are holiday level volume numbers with regular time funding. As a taxpayer, I want money I pay going to the USPS, it is extremely valuable infrastructure for the last mile, small business and big business as seen here with Amazon. Without the USPS, and the Universal Postal Union (UPU) [1], shipping would be much more expensive. It really is a sort of loss leader service that fuels so many other economic network effects. The UPU and USPS are some of the best ever public services created and one area where the world gets along, anyone attacking it should be immediately ejected from power. Any infrastructure bill should include shoring up the USPS and expanding it, possibly including banking again and financial services that can be attained by the unbankable. USPS is required infrastructure, the lack of care about it is short-sighted and inexcusable. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Postal_Union https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Postal_Union
arbuge 6y ago
Did you read the article? Do you work for Amazon perhaps? Amazon is not the only ecommerce company in existence. The article clearly states in its 3rd paragraph that packages (not junk mail) from other senders are being delayed in favor of Amazon packages: "...willfully delaying thousands of first-class and priority parcels so that fourth-class Amazon parcels can go out for delivery instead"
- dang 6y ago
  "Did you read the article" and "Do you work for Amazon" both break the site guidelines. Please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when posting here. Your comment would be just fine without those bits.

clarkevans 6y ago

The USPS provides universal service, especially to areas that are unprofitable. Moreover, congress sets their rates instead of letting market forces determine rates. Finally, they are under retirement funding rules that commercial carriers are not. Then, after being required to run unprofitably, legislators observe that the USPS is not competitive? One can't help but wonder if Amazon wants to pull up the ladder behind them.

agloeregrets 6y ago
That’s why Amazon built their own Shipping network now. They only use USPS where it makes financial sense, notably often in the Midwest or in places where they don’t have other deliveries. They are rapidly gaining competitive advantages that cannot be equaled without billions in investment.

heliodor 6y ago

The only meaningful mail most people get is packages, so from that point of view, this headline is a good thing not a bad thing.

take_a_breath 6y ago
This is not true for much of society. Many, many people receive important documents in the mail: voter IDs, driver’s licenses, voting forms, Medicare and Social Security forms, utility bills, mortgage statements, IRS docs, unemployment benefits, and more. These all seem pretty meaningful, no?
- joncrane 6y ago
  Yes but who orders a shiny new utility bill and obsessively tracks its progress until it's finally delivered and they can joyfully unbox it? Who orders their mortgage statement and medicare form and forcefully complains to the ombudsman when they come late three times in a row?
  - take_a_breath 6y ago
    People who are struggling to make payments or rely on Medicare for their health? Is it really so hard to imagine how other people live their lives differently?
  - delfinom 6y ago
    Some of us that recognize the severe damage that can be inflicted on you if said documents were to fall into the wrong hands because most companies don't give a shit and allow their CSR to be socially engineered into fucking someone over?
- heliodor 6y ago
  They are important but packages far outnumbers it.

cphoover 6y ago

Good. How often is mail something I need vs spam, or things that could be emailed to me or sent digitally. Amazon are things I needed delivered.

briandear 6y ago

If the USPS would stop filling my box with pounds of junk newsprint and other spam, then I might be sympathetic. Amazon sends me stuff I ask for. The majority of stuff USPS sends me goes directly in the trash. It shouldn’t be allowed to send people bulk mail unless that person opts in. Mailbox spam is worse than digital spam because there is a distinct environmental cost to printing so much crap. USPS shouldn’t be providing discounted services for anyone.

tmaly 6y ago

We are still paying for full prime and I have not seen 2 day shipping in ages.

codecrusade 6y ago

Break Amazon up. Its a monopoly.

bawana 6y ago

Amazon is more of a threat to the ‘American way of life’ than Communism ever was.

codecrusade 6y ago
Yes but I will get downvoted as the HN mafia is deep funded by Amazon
bawana 6y ago
obviously, bezos downvoted my comment. I dont think they are bad, they are just too big - and monopolies are breeding ground for evil.

codecrusade 6y ago

Amazon is a monopoly. Antitrust law to be invoked

psim1 6y ago

Fine with me. I pay Amazon $129 per year for Prime service and if this is one of the ways they arrange it, great. What else comes by mail? Junk, or bills that are due in 3-4 weeks, or statements. First class mail was always kind of variable in delivery speed anyway.

fortran77 6y ago

It's not so crazy that the highest rate mail goes through (if that's the case) at the expense of bulk-rate mail. But if first-class and priority mail is being delayed, as is being alleged, that's a problem. People aren't getting the service they paid for.

tebruno99 6y ago

There is other mail than Amazon packages?

vmchale 6y ago

Isn't this whole thing started because trump is trying to get back at Bezos? He's mad because Bezos owns the Washington Post.

propogandist 6y ago
so you're telling me because Trump is trying to get back at Bezos, he's telling the Postmaster to prioritize Amazon's packages over regular mail delivery? Do you believe Russia is involved in this too?
- vmchale 6y ago
  No, he's angry at the USPS for not charging Jeff Bezos more. He has tweets ranting about them.

rovr138 6y ago

Where’s the bottleneck? A lot of USPS is via trucks, but what about planes? Don’t they do freight via commercial airlines? Could it be a backlog that’s just increasing?

smileybarry 6y ago

This is true overseas as well. Israel Post used to have huge issues with deliverability, but whenever an Amazon package showed up they'd get priority and was rarely, almost never, lost or delayed. In fact, they even have a partnership now and text you when an Amazon package arrived ("a package has arrived from Amazon") but not always when another vendor's package arrives, even if there's a phone number attached to it.

crazygringo 6y ago

Aside from this article and similar, I can't find any credible confirmation that Amazon packages are delivered "fourth-class" or what that means. After all, big bulky boxes are hardly competing against catalogs for space in the mail truck, the differences in size are so huge. Amazon has a private contract with the USPS that presumably puts it in its own unique category regardless of other labels, and the USPS likely loses money for late delivery, so this is just things operating how they're intended to operate. The real problem is politics that doesn't give the USPS the flexibility to expand. I live in Brooklyn and haven't gotten a single package delivered on time by the USPS in the past 3 months, always 1-3 days late. Any normal business hires more employees as business booms, and remember the USPS makes money off Amazon. Unfortunately, the USPS is so hamstrung by politicians that it can't simply expand to meet demand, the way e.g. Amazon Fresh has.

thatguy0900 6y ago

Well 95% of the letters I receive go straight into the trash can, so I'm really not too concerned if it's delayed

softwaredoug 6y ago

I am worried what's going to happen with big vote-by-mail election. How much chaos will ensue with an overwhelmed USPS? We've already seen elections with ballot invalidation rates of 25% in NYC with some of the primaries. A lot had to do with postmark dates and signatures.

jeffbee 6y ago
In my county (in California) there are dedicated ballot boxes that are not serviced by the post office. The ballots are collected from the boxes by county election officials. Is this not a thing in other states?
- johnl1479 6y ago
  Washington State is entirely vote-by-mail, and we have the option of returning to drop boxes located at libraries or city halls and well as mailing them in. My anecdotal observation is that the majority of people use the drop boxes, but that was also pre-pandemic.
- softwaredoug 6y ago
  I'm more thinking of states that have never voted by mail. We don't understand the protocol, and there's unlikely to be any feedback whether our vote counted. Likely to be many administrative snafus An example recently is some of the New York primaries where up to 25% of ballots were rejected - https://twitter.com/Redistrict/status/1287416969231302658 https://twitter.com/Redistrict/status/1287416969231302658
- jpindar 6y ago
  In at least some states it is - here in NH we can bring absentee ballots to our town clerk's office - but apparently many people don't know about it.

myself248 6y ago

One of my COVID resolutions has been to aggressively attack every source of junkmail I can find. I figure, reducing the load in my mailbox (my actual goal; I haaaaate dead-tree mail) will have the collateral benefit of reducing the load on the carrier's shoulder. I've enjoyed partial success so far, but just fired another volley of unsubscribes yesterday. We'll see.

kup0 6y ago
So far- have you found any particular methods to be the most effective? (Return postage envelopes with a form letter, online tools, other options) My grandma, who passed a bit less than two years ago is still receiving all sorts of junk mail. I have tried unsubscribing normal ways from some of it (online forms, etc) and none of that seems to work at all. I do use the "do not mail" junk mail opt-outs which has reduced the volume that comes in both her name and mine, but there's still loads of "previously accepted/subscribed-to mail" that I can't seem to put a stop to- even if I use the publisher/sender's preferred opt-out method.
- myself248 6y ago
  I used to get a TON of mail for the guy who previously lived at my address. Even eight years after he moved. So I'd call the various companies and ask them to stop. And one miraculous time, I ended up talking with a rep who told me The Secret. Paraphrasing: "I can remove him from our database, but he'll be back in a few weeks when we do our next import from the credit brokers. That's where you need to focus your effort, try Equifax." Funny thing was, I could not find a form for "My name is Alice and I swear Bob no longer lives at 123 Main", but I could find a form for "My name is Bob and I swear I no longer live at 123 Main". So I filled that out, didn't sign it, and sent it in. It slowed to a trickle within a month or two, and all but stopped within a year after that. I just filled out https://pc2.mypreferences.com/Comcast/OptOut/Default.aspx https://pc2.mypreferences.com/Comcast/OptOut/Default.aspx so we'll see if that stems the deluge of Xfinity mailers...

sneak 6y ago

Are Amazon packages not also “mail” once they have paid the USPS?

beepboopbeep 6y ago

The post office has been unduly laden with nonsense financial restrictions by the GOP in two presidencies now (Bush and Trump). Put another way, they've purposefully sabotaged one of the oldest institutions in America in order to crater it on behalf of private businesses. Are there things that can be changed at USPS? Certainly, but they are not the primary cause of distress for this institution. See also: The current assault against the NHS in the U.K.

erichocean 6y ago

USPS sent tens of thousands of ePacket (international air mail) packages by boat recently—supposedly the first time in history they've done that. Instead of shipments arriving in 1-2 weeks, they took 6-12 weeks. Completely screwed people over. Our organization has now dropped USPS entirely for international shipments, and we spend a few million annually on shipping. There was also a massive rate increase recently, particularly to the UK, that has made USPS far less competitive compared to other shippers.

lrnStats 6y ago

A fortune 500 company gets special government privileges that a regular citizen does not? I'm shocked /s I wonder if there are billionaires that don't use tax dollars for profit.

ngngngng 6y ago

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freeqaz 6y ago
Funny, this was the inverse of my experience growing up in Hawaii. UPS and Fedex were an hour drive to get the package. USPS would bring to the post office down the road. I always tried to get USPS whenever I could

yboris 6y ago

I've always thought it inefficient to have mail delivered every day. Doing deliveries every other day seems like would be an easy way to save money. No?

aaroninsf 6y ago

This is the logical analog to and extension of the assault on net neutrality. The reasons this is a fatal stance in a functional first-world democracy are identical.

CarbyAu 6y ago

Many comments about overtime being banned as though it is a bad thing. My understanding was that "Overtime" was meant to be used sparingly for short term circumstances - not for months on end - to avoid burnout. From a labour cost point of view, most places pay penalty rates for overtime. Often 20% to 50%. Or maybe that is my naive view here in Australia. So wouldn't it be cheaper to just hire more employees/daytime contractors? Plenty of people looking for work I hear.

prirun 6y ago

I cannot believe with the decrease in 1st-class mail that the USPS is still running delivery trucks 6 days per week to every house. It's a complete waste of resources. They should go to 3 days per week, then cut back to 2, and maybe even just 1 per week. Since the pandemic, I have been leaving my mail in the box and getting it Sunday night. You know what I'm missing? Nothing! There may be 2-3 pieces of mail plus some junk mail, and I don't get email delivery of any bills: it's all physical mail. Most people do not care if they get junk mail plus a few bills every day or once a week. They do care if they get their Amazon packages delivered. So to me, it's perfectly reasonable to delay 1st-class mail and prioritize, uh, "priority mail".