7 ms·

The Great Climate Migration Has Begun

21 points by edward 6y ago

seesawtron 6y ago
A similar discussion from half a year ago on HN [0]. Everytime I see concerning articles like these on drastic impact of climate change, it is always followed by a discussion on how disheartening and worrisome it is. However, what I would really like to see is a discussion on what we, as engineers or skilled professionals or converned citizens of the only liveable planet, do to make an impactful difference. I am sure a lot of us do our part by making little changes in our everyday life such as reducing consumption, choosing public transportation, being aware of the source of the goods we consume, so on and so forth. But there is very little hope that these small changes will get us where we need to be. I found this [1] firm that aims to match you to organizations doing impactful work on a larger scale, in case it is interesting for anyone. Hoping to see more such resources or strategies. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22057576 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22057576 [1] https://www.splashwithdolphin.com/ https://www.splashwithdolphin.com/
- perfunctory 6y ago
  Unfortunately, I believe there is nothing special we as engineers can do. The best thing we can do is what any other concerned citizen can do. Join climate activists on the streets. Rebel against the status quo. Yes, it's much less comfortable than sitting in front of a screen all day, but it's the most efficient way.
  - minerjoe 6y ago
    > Nothing special we as engieers can do? Truly you can bring more imagination to the table? We have almost the entire world connected. Partial solutions to many of todays problems have already been discovered, they just haven't been communicated to the rest. As engineers, we are in a good spot to address this issue. Amost everyone has a supercomputer in their pocket, networked with the rest. There has to be some way to use this to help enable people to get out of destructive extractive system, and to create new, aligned with nature, systems.
    - perfunctory 6y ago
      > There has to be some way to use this to help enable people to ... This is what I used to think too. Over the years though (decades really) my belief in pure technological solutions has waned significantly. As the world interconnectedness increases, so do the global GHG emissions. As the number of supercomputers in our pockets increase so does the e-waist and micro-plastic pollution. It looks like no matter what we do (EVs, solar, smart-grids, you name it), somehow, almost inexplicably, the GHG emissions just keep rising. Year after year. Don't get me wrong. I am not anti technology or something. It's just that it's not a bottleneck anymore. There is no lack of technological solutions, there is a lack of moral courage to implement them.
  - kv_hrishikesh 6y ago
    Engineers might organize a hackathon and show off solutions to climate change working day and night, in the next 72 hours. Ha !
9nGQluzmnq3M 6y ago
> In Southeast Asia, where increasingly unpredictable monsoon rainfall and drought have made farming more difficult, the World Bank points to more than eight million people who have moved toward the Middle East, Europe and North America. Citation needed: as far as I can tell the linked report (below, a giant 260 page, 64MB PDF) says nothing at all about Southeast Asia? https://openknowledge.worldbank.org/bitstream/handle/10986/29461/WBG_ClimateChange_Final.pdf https://openknowledge.worldbank.org/bitstream/handle/10986/2... The vast majority of Southeast Asia is very consistently wet and humid, which makes it an unlikely candidate to become unlivably hot. The sole major exporter of workers in the region is the Philippines, but that's mostly due to overpopulation encouraged by Catholic dogma, and there's "only" around 2M overseas workers. Where are the other 6M? Personally, I think India is going to be largest challenge by far. It's soon the largest country in the world, it has massive water and pollution problems, and anybody who has experienced Delhi in May will agree that large parts of it are already virtually uninhabitably hot.
- orwin 6y ago
  > The vast majority of Southeast Asia is very consistently wet and humid, which makes it an unlikely candidate to become unlivably hot. unlivealy hot and wet [0]. Some people indeed think that the high humidity combined with a >33C temperature will soon be the leading cause of death in SE Asia, SE india, tropical africa as well as Florida, coastal georgia and SC[1]. I' disagree (or rather, i'm not quite as pestimistic) but the ;ortality in some area indeed get higher with humidity in summer [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wet-bulb_temperature https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wet-bulb_temperature [1]https://kevinhester.live/2016/05/21/wet-bulb-temperature-soon-to-become-the-leading-cause-of-death/ https://kevinhester.live/2016/05/21/wet-bulb-temperature-soo... (i found a way better map some time ago but i can't find it, sorry)
roenxi 6y ago
Global population is increasing at a rate of >1% per year. We crossed 6 billion in 1999 and 7 billion in 2011. We're now much closer to 8 billion than 7 billion too. It is hard to imagine scenarios where this magnitude of growth ends well and wedging 'climate' into everything really is making people miss the real problem. The problem is human population growth - it seems quite likely that the future contains seas of blood and withering famines with or without climate change. Handing out condoms and the pill will do more to help than curtailing fossil fuel usage (which realistically will just bring the suffering on faster). A world of 1 billion people would be a very comfortable world compared to what people put up with now - about a third of them could have a US-level lifestyle and the rest could put up with European standards of living.
- 9nGQluzmnq3M 6y ago
  Fertility rates are already plummeting across the planet, and most developed countries already need a steady influx of migrants just to keep their populations steady. The issue is that a baby born today will live for 70-ish years, so there's a large "hump" of overpopulation to deal with before world population growth goes into reverse around 2100.
  - ur-whale 6y ago
    That "hump going into reverse" theory is predicated on there being no large-scale disaster (war, famine, etc...). The way things are going, that predicate is rather unlikely.
    - 9nGQluzmnq3M 6y ago
      War or famine would likely speed up reaching that point, not slow it down. Nevertheless, grim Malthusian predictions have been made since the 1700s, and have yet to come to pass.
  - rbecker 6y ago
    Developed countries consume the most resources per capita, so their populations could do with a drop - there is no 'need' to keep them steady, but just the opposite.
Proven 6y ago
Like we needed even more alarmist nonsense from the NYT. If you think these small issues that have nothing to do with humans are a big problem wait will you see problems Sleepy Joe and AOC will create fixing those non-issues.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

21 points by edward 6y ago

A similar discussion from half a year ago on HN [0]. Everytime I see concerning articles like these on drastic impact of climate change, it is always followed by a discussion on how disheartening and worrisome it is. However, what I would really like to see is a discussion on what we, as engineers or skilled professionals or converned citizens of the only liveable planet, do to make an impactful difference. I am sure a lot of us do our part by making little changes in our everyday life such as reducing consumption, choosing public transportation, being aware of the source of the goods we consume, so on and so forth. But there is very little hope that these small changes will get us where we need to be. I found this [1] firm that aims to match you to organizations doing impactful work on a larger scale, in case it is interesting for anyone. Hoping to see more such resources or strategies. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22057576 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22057576 [1] https://www.splashwithdolphin.com/ https://www.splashwithdolphin.com/

perfunctory 6y ago
Unfortunately, I believe there is nothing special we as engineers can do. The best thing we can do is what any other concerned citizen can do. Join climate activists on the streets. Rebel against the status quo. Yes, it's much less comfortable than sitting in front of a screen all day, but it's the most efficient way.
- minerjoe 6y ago
  > Nothing special we as engieers can do? Truly you can bring more imagination to the table? We have almost the entire world connected. Partial solutions to many of todays problems have already been discovered, they just haven't been communicated to the rest. As engineers, we are in a good spot to address this issue. Amost everyone has a supercomputer in their pocket, networked with the rest. There has to be some way to use this to help enable people to get out of destructive extractive system, and to create new, aligned with nature, systems.
  - perfunctory 6y ago
    > There has to be some way to use this to help enable people to ... This is what I used to think too. Over the years though (decades really) my belief in pure technological solutions has waned significantly. As the world interconnectedness increases, so do the global GHG emissions. As the number of supercomputers in our pockets increase so does the e-waist and micro-plastic pollution. It looks like no matter what we do (EVs, solar, smart-grids, you name it), somehow, almost inexplicably, the GHG emissions just keep rising. Year after year. Don't get me wrong. I am not anti technology or something. It's just that it's not a bottleneck anymore. There is no lack of technological solutions, there is a lack of moral courage to implement them.
- kv_hrishikesh 6y ago
  Engineers might organize a hackathon and show off solutions to climate change working day and night, in the next 72 hours. Ha !

9nGQluzmnq3M 6y ago

> In Southeast Asia, where increasingly unpredictable monsoon rainfall and drought have made farming more difficult, the World Bank points to more than eight million people who have moved toward the Middle East, Europe and North America. Citation needed: as far as I can tell the linked report (below, a giant 260 page, 64MB PDF) says nothing at all about Southeast Asia? https://openknowledge.worldbank.org/bitstream/handle/10986/29461/WBG_ClimateChange_Final.pdf https://openknowledge.worldbank.org/bitstream/handle/10986/2... The vast majority of Southeast Asia is very consistently wet and humid, which makes it an unlikely candidate to become unlivably hot. The sole major exporter of workers in the region is the Philippines, but that's mostly due to overpopulation encouraged by Catholic dogma, and there's "only" around 2M overseas workers. Where are the other 6M? Personally, I think India is going to be largest challenge by far. It's soon the largest country in the world, it has massive water and pollution problems, and anybody who has experienced Delhi in May will agree that large parts of it are already virtually uninhabitably hot.

orwin 6y ago
> The vast majority of Southeast Asia is very consistently wet and humid, which makes it an unlikely candidate to become unlivably hot. unlivealy hot and wet [0]. Some people indeed think that the high humidity combined with a >33C temperature will soon be the leading cause of death in SE Asia, SE india, tropical africa as well as Florida, coastal georgia and SC[1]. I' disagree (or rather, i'm not quite as pestimistic) but the ;ortality in some area indeed get higher with humidity in summer [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wet-bulb_temperature https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wet-bulb_temperature [1]https://kevinhester.live/2016/05/21/wet-bulb-temperature-soon-to-become-the-leading-cause-of-death/ https://kevinhester.live/2016/05/21/wet-bulb-temperature-soo... (i found a way better map some time ago but i can't find it, sorry)

roenxi 6y ago

Global population is increasing at a rate of >1% per year. We crossed 6 billion in 1999 and 7 billion in 2011. We're now much closer to 8 billion than 7 billion too. It is hard to imagine scenarios where this magnitude of growth ends well and wedging 'climate' into everything really is making people miss the real problem. The problem is human population growth - it seems quite likely that the future contains seas of blood and withering famines with or without climate change. Handing out condoms and the pill will do more to help than curtailing fossil fuel usage (which realistically will just bring the suffering on faster). A world of 1 billion people would be a very comfortable world compared to what people put up with now - about a third of them could have a US-level lifestyle and the rest could put up with European standards of living.

9nGQluzmnq3M 6y ago
Fertility rates are already plummeting across the planet, and most developed countries already need a steady influx of migrants just to keep their populations steady. The issue is that a baby born today will live for 70-ish years, so there's a large "hump" of overpopulation to deal with before world population growth goes into reverse around 2100.
- ur-whale 6y ago
  That "hump going into reverse" theory is predicated on there being no large-scale disaster (war, famine, etc...). The way things are going, that predicate is rather unlikely.
  - 9nGQluzmnq3M 6y ago
    War or famine would likely speed up reaching that point, not slow it down. Nevertheless, grim Malthusian predictions have been made since the 1700s, and have yet to come to pass.
- rbecker 6y ago
  Developed countries consume the most resources per capita, so their populations could do with a drop - there is no 'need' to keep them steady, but just the opposite.

Proven 6y ago

Like we needed even more alarmist nonsense from the NYT. If you think these small issues that have nothing to do with humans are a big problem wait will you see problems Sleepy Joe and AOC will create fixing those non-issues.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]