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Nubank acquires Cognitect
- kgraves 6y agowhat does this mean for the future of clojure? I am a bit worried that a startup has acquired two companies that have extremely deep experience in specialised languages Platformatec (Elixir) and now Clojure (Cognitect)
- draven 6y agoThe answer is in the blog post ("Nubank understands the unique value of Clojure and Datomic, and is committed to continuing both without disruption." and the bullet points that follow.)
- thom 6y agoThat's what they _say_, it's not necessarily the answer to the question.
- ilikehurdles 6y agoWell then what would you prefer the answer to be instead?
- thom 6y ago"Nobody knows"
- dkersten 6y agoIt sounds like not much will change. I do wonder about datomic, though, as people I’ve spoken to at Clojure conferences seem to have made use of Cognitect’s consulting as a kind of more advanced support mechanism and they say that they will stop the consulting work.
- stuarthalloway 6y agoAll Datomic consulting will continue.
- nojito 6y agoIt says this in your post. Cognitect will continue to offer professional services for Datomic customers, but will transition out of general consulting development. Does this mean your general consulting services are going away?
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- mark_l_watson 6y agoI friend of mine hired the principles at Cognitect to kick off a Clojure/Datomic project. They were like a force of nature, really, and very quickly got things set up and helped with architectural decisions, etc. I would imagine that they have helped hundreds of customers this way. From the blog post, I think that the answer to your question is yes: they will stop general consulting services.
- randompwd 6y agoHere's hoping they release a getting started project now that they've dipped out of general consulting.There must have been a standard-ish template in use.
- dkersten 6y agoGreat, so it sounds like not much will change for external users of Clojure and Datomic. Sounds like the the biggest change is in terms of funding. Sounds good to me, congratulations! EDIT: I guess my confusion was between professional services for Datomic and general consulting, since both were mentioned in the context of Datomic.
- fulafel 6y agoWould Nubank be still considered a startup?
- michel_dib 6y agoDisclaimer: I am a Nubank employee, so there might be bias. Regarding the future of Clojure, I believe that not much will change actually. Before Clojure was sponsored by Cognitect and had Rich's / Stu's and Alex's stewardship and that's gonna continue to be the case just swapping the sponsoring company behind it. IMHO it's only on Nubank's best interest to have a strong community around Clojure and Datomic as well. About Platformatec I think that was a very different thing, it was more an acqui-hiring, and before Elxir's stewardship was under the company (but having very different development dynamics compared to Clojure) and after the agreement, it was transferred to the community. So the company was pretty much dissolved after the contract, and back then, that was clear and transparent, as it was announced to happen.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- kamaal 6y agoI think the history of large companies hiring maintainers/authors of programming languages/libraries they use has so far gone good. Take for example php, perl(booking.com, bbc, craigslist), js(fb etc). The language needs to be supported financially though. Companies are not living beings, typically its some SVP making decisions. Sometimes they do support, but sometimes big shots do feel programmers are spending too much time working for greater good, while they should be working for company profits. So it depends on the bosses you report to. There is no easy answer to this question, because many times it just comes to down to one person making decisions.
- regularfry 6y agoWhat would somewhat worry me somewhat is what the situation would be if Nubank went pop, and Cognitect were no longer in a position to step back in as sponsors.
- halostatue 6y agoThe acquisition of Plataformatec will have almost no impact on Elixir, as Jose Valim had already moved to/created a new firm, Dashbit.
- rafaelferreira 6y agoNubank’s co-founder and CTO offers his perspective: https://building.nubank.com.br/welcoming-cognitect-nubank/ https://building.nubank.com.br/welcoming-cognitect-nubank/
- hu3 6y ago> Clojure is and will remain open-source and Rich Hickey will continue to lead its efforts (as the BDFL). This is great! Languages need strong laser-focused vision to avoid becoming a soup of ideas.
- kbuchanan 6y agoHe makes mention of 2,300 Datomic databases. Can anyone shed some light on how a company maintains (or requires?)... 2,300 databases? What business needs lead to something like this? What kind of reporting pipeline possibly could pull so many dbs with cross concerns together under one roof?
- pizza_worker 6y agoBrazilian tax law, Brazilian financial regulation, Brazilian fraud prevention... Things get byzantine fast in Brazil.
- zachrose 6y agoLet’s say the company has four databases and 500 technical employees. That could get you to 2k personal development instances. Take your non-development instances and multiple for failover, blue-green deployments, multiple data centers. It doesn’t necessarily sound nice but it’s conceivable.
- fulafel 6y agoIn datomic the concept of a database is pretty light, creating a db doesn't imply spinning up a new backend stack.
- praveenperera 6y agoFirst plataformatec (company behind elixir) now this. Interesting.
- samtechie 6y agoIt was more of an aquahire and Jose Valim the creator of Elixir left Plataformatec to start his own consultancy. All assets related to Elixir were transferred to the community. The rest of the core contributors are not affiliated to Plataformatec therefore the acquisition had no effect on Elixir.
- josefrichter 6y agoKiller team.
- rel2thr 6y agoWonder if this makes datomic more likely to become free/open source Not sure what their license revenue is but hard to imagine it would be significant to a major fintech
- kamaal 6y agoAlso lets hope they acquire cursive ide too and offer it for free. Clojure deserves an IDE for larger adoption.
- puredanger 6y agoClojure has many free IDEs. Many people currently use Emacs w/CIDER, Atom w/Chlorine, Visual Studio w/Calva, Vim w/Fireplace, etc. For that matter, Cursive also has a free non-commercial edition.
- kamaal 6y agoThanks Alex. Wishing you and your team many congratulations and kudos on this occasion.
- jcadam 6y agoI've found CIDER superior to Cursive for Clojurescript, specifically. I use a combination of IntelliJ (with the emacs keybindings) and emacs depending on which language I'm working with. Most of my projects involve two or more languages, so I'll usually have both editors open all day :) As an aside, I'm starting to become a fan of Kotlin for backends (with some Clojure sprinkled in where it offers a big advantage), and Clojurescript (re-frame) for the frontend (because it offers a big win over javascript there). I've taken a step back from full Clojure for everything, being that I have to work with others who aren't as in to "alternative" languages as I am. Datomic is something I probably won't mess with until (and if) it becomes open source.
- randompwd 6y agoUsing Spring with Kotlin or other?
- jyriand 6y agoWhat is meant by "joining"? Did Nubank aquire Cognitec?
- josefrichter 6y agoyes
- dustingetz 6y agoThe bull case here is if Nubank goes full Amazon and uses banking as a beachhead to create the next layer up from AWS, which Clojure/Datomic is amazingly perfect for – data all the things
- bananaface 6y ago[deleted]
- bhurlow 6y agoIs a "transaction log" not exactly the technical shape of a bank?
- patmorgan23 6y agoIt's definitely the shape of accounting
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- juskrey 6y agoAnd we'll have to go back using sqlite again
- nudpiedo 6y agothere is also an on Prem solution, and I believe that's what such customer wants.
- adamtait 6y agoHa! I was going to reply to this comment - "If you're interested in data-all-the-things, then you should take a look at Hyperfiddle" - until I recognized the user handle and realized that you already knew about Hyperfiddle. (for those reading along, dustingetz built Hyperfiddle)
- dustingetz 6y ago
- fulafel 6y agoApparently Nubank has offices in Berlin, wonder if at some point there could be jobs there for working on open source Clojure things.
- scribu 6y agoDid anyone else notice that the biggest non-academic supporters of functional programming seem to be financial institutions? Is it due to the nature of the problem space? Is it because finance people tend to be more analytical? Something else?
- gphil 6y agoI think the answer to both of your questions is yes. I think the related concepts of immutability and pure functions without mutable state allow for cleaner analytical modeling (and in some cases in strong functional languages, mathematical proof) of what that the code is actually going to do in production. That kind of predictability is essential for dealing with financial computations.
- nolok 6y agoI would assume it's because it's easier to provide a mathemathical proof for the code with functionnal programming.
- Joe8Bit 6y agoImmutability is a very powerful idea when record keeping and dealing with transactions. I know of at least one major bank whose ledgers are written Haskell.
- bhurlow 6y agoany relevant links to share about this?
- mark_l_watson 6y agoPerhaps: Standard Chartered Singapore? I tried unsuccessfully to get a job with them about 4-5 years ago. They are a huge Haskell shop.
- davidrupp 6y agoSounds like a broken hiring process right there. Anything you care to share about why that didn't work out? I can't imagine a company having an opportunity to hire you and choosing not to.
- dgb23 6y agoNubank has a very inspiring story, both for engineers that are fans of Clojure & Datomic and for entrepreneurs that want to do "crazy" things like entering the bank sector. This must be very validating and exciting for both Cognitect and Nubank. I'm excited of the future impact on Clojure and Datomic. I get the impression that _all_[0] involved parties deeply care about what made them great so far. [0] I'm getting that vibe based on some talks I saw of Lucas Cavalcanti and Edward Wible, available on Youtube.
- puredanger 6y agoExactly right.
- jonahbenton 6y agoYeah, I saw the Nubank folks present in person in NYC just prior to COVID. I am a Clojure fan, to be sure, and also a banking/money dweeb. Soup to nuts it was one of the most impressive presentations / achievements I have seen. They were clearly operating in the future. Congrats to both and looking forward to growing the community. Plans to release a SAAS banking core in the US? Pretty please?
- ru552 6y agoWas this a conference? Possible link to the talk mentioned?
- jonahbenton 6y agoClojure NYC meetup, sounds like video may be damaged but was salvaged: https://www.meetup.com/Clojure-nyc/events/268460200/ https://www.meetup.com/Clojure-nyc/events/268460200/
- setr 6y agodirect link to the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dW4V3stFX0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dW4V3stFX0
- clj_throwaway 6y agoThrowaway account, for obvious reasons. This is great for nubank, but how is this supposed to work for other users of Clojure and Datomic? Who is really going to be interested in building on top of tech owned by a (new, unknown, regional) bank? Someone said that this is just like Amazon (who would build on top of tech from a bookstore??), but I hope it's obvious the two situations are very different. I expect that I'll have to be looking for a new job in a year's time :-(
- mr_custard 6y agoA lot of people don't seem to mind building on top of tech owned and developed by a telecommunications company - Erlang.
- clj_throwaway 6y agoYep, telecomms and banks, very similar dynamics and incentives /s
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- kgwgk 6y agoIn what relevant way are they different? (I find that your comment has more sense without the /s tag)
- monsieurbanana 6y agoYes? What incentive exactly are you implying banks have that make them less suitable than other mega-corporations for the purposes of developing a programming language?
- clj_throwaway 6y agoBanks and fintech often view their in-house tech as competitive advantages, and they usually don't care a whit about building cred in dev communities (a common reason why projects are OSS in the first place, to drive recruitment or promote a complimentary platform). A good outcome isn't impossible, but it might be unprecedented
- systems 6y agoSince Nubank, is not in the business of selling software does this mean, they might open source datomic ?
- jacknews 6y agoWill the license change?
- puredanger 6y agoNo change in Clojure's license (it is still EPL 1.0).
- adelarsq 6y agoNo. It's just a "cooperation" to use technologies.
- tomconnors 6y agoIt sounds like Nubank might have the biggest Datomic installation in the world (2000 servers). This is exciting news for people like me who think Datomic is the most interesting database out there. Putting more resources behind Datomic might finally allow it to go mainstream.
- tom_b 6y agoI was unable to bring Datomic in-house. Mainly because our organization has a huge agreement with Oracle and all our database servers are essentially "free" to teams. So I cheated. I created some schema designs that were immutable. I added a GUID, timestamp, and a deleted flag (value of 'Y' or 'N') to tables. Basically, all selects are against views that are defined over the tables to select the tuple associated with the max(timestamp) for that tuple along with the tuple having a deleted flag value of 'N'. This means that any select only sees the most recent tuple value for a GUID if it hasn't been "deleted". There was a little bit more hiding in there to handle dirty writes. But this worked very well for my requirements. By really only doing inserts, I was able to do similar "point in time" looks at the db as an immutable value. Fun stuff.
- escherize 6y agoReminds me of the time I wrote an eavt (entity, attribute, value, transaction-time) store on top of rethink db with a friend of mine.
- havenconnect 6y agoWould you be willing to have an email chat about that? I'm thinking about doing a similar strategy with our relational database and wanted to get your experiences with that. sam at havenconnect dot com
- nickpeterson 6y agoYou may want to look into Anchor Modeling http://www.anchormodeling.com/ http://www.anchormodeling.com/
- mark_l_watson 6y agoGood for them, well deserved success for the principles, Clojure, and Datomic! I donated to the Clojure dev fund early on, and I had two consulting customers over a few year period who mandated Clojure. I stopped using Clojure when the paid work stopped because I really like Common Lisp better for my use cases. I have on my radar for sometime this year to update my cooking website [1] that is written in Clojure, so I will at least get a small opportunity to kick the tires on modern day Clojure. [1] http://cookingspace.com http://cookingspace.com
- auganov 6y ago> Nubank has grown to 600 Clojure developers, running 2.5 million lines of Clojure code in 500 microservices Wow, that's enormous especially for a concise language like Clojure. Very happy about this announcement as a Clojure user. Sounds like it's going to be viable for at least another decade.
- bhurlow 6y agoI'm just remembering the sad collapse of RethinkDB... The task of making a viable commercial database in 2020 is herculean and I can really empathize with the team's need to both keep cashflow and have a sufficiently sized deployment to debug against. Can also say that everyone I've met at nubank are really passionate about the ecosystem and seem like they'll be excellent partners
- fulafel 6y agoDatomic is 8+ years old and by all accounts has a healthy customer base, it's not like they are in the takeoff stage. But of course they have to keep up like everyone else, especially now that there is competition from the OSS side (Crux).
- robertfw 6y agoI remember being very excited by RethinkDB, it was a huge shame to see that go down. I feel like they signed their own death warrant by making a product that was super easy to use and was well documented.. so no support contracts, because simply not needed. Such a shame.
- andrenth 6y agoAre there any technical posts from Nubank on how they manage such a large Clojure codebase (I guess it must be Clojure's largest user in the industry). I'm looking for things like how to refactor safely in the absence of static typing, for example. Do they make use of spec? I'm a big fan of static typing, but when using a dynamic language with immutable values and pattern matching, like Erlang, I don't miss it that much. Maybe with Clojure is the same?
- hcarvalhoalves 6y agoNot sure we have any talks about that specifically, but what I can say is that on the Clojure codebases: - We rely heavily on testing (unit tests, property-based/generative and integration) - We adopt a micro-services architecture, so most codebases are small enough that refactoring is easy, or sometimes we just replace the service altogether - We leverage Schema (https://github.com/plumatic/schema https://github.com/plumatic/schema) and/or clojure.spec (https://clojure.org/guides/spec https://clojure.org/guides/spec) to annotate functions and data schemas, but it's opt-in - We have static checking of data schemas across boundaries (e.g. checking data producers did not break consumers over HTTP or Kafka), which is where we found the most value (replaced complicated end-to-end tests)
- andrenth 6y agoThanks! Can you talk a bit more about the static checking of cross-boundaries schemas? Any relation to tools that allow a schema to evolve without breaking compatibility, like protobuf?
- hcarvalhoalves 6y agoIt's not based on protobuf. There's some in-house tooling that checks the schemas of producers against consumers against known versions (aka the versions in production), and we run it as part of the CI. Since services implement standard components/protocols there are standardised hooks to extract these schemas definitions from each HTTP endpoint or Kafka consumer.
- nt591 6y agoNubank also acquired Plataformatec and the Elixir team. Very interested to watch how this plays out.
- Plugawy 6y agoNot quite: they acquired the consulting part of Plataformatec, the core Elixir folks are running a new venture: https://changelog.com/podcast/402 https://changelog.com/podcast/402
- sidcool 6y agoI am genuinely curious. I haven't heard the name Cognitect before. I checked the website and they seem like another software consultancy firm. Anything I am missing? HN is very picky, so they must be doing something special.
- hellofunk 6y agoCase you’re curious, Nubank has done the same thing for the Elixir language! http://blog.plataformatec.com.br/2020/01/important-information-about-our-elixir-and-ruby-open-source-projects/ http://blog.plataformatec.com.br/2020/01/important-informati...
- rafaelferreira 6y agoNot exactly, Elixir continues to be lead by José Valim, now at Dashbit. (disclosure: nubank employee).
- ramon 6y agoNubank is one of the biggest startups in Brazil and I am a Nubank customer and I must say they have the best service available. Treating customers as customers.
- afefers 6y agoThe customer support is the best! No waiting, no pre-recorded messages, no muzak, no menu. A real person picks the phone and talks to you. Oh and the app is a delight!
- sizeofchar 6y agoCustomer here, as well. IMHO, the best company currently in Brazil.
- sandGorgon 6y agoAWS has Quantum Ledger DB, which is a lot like what nubank architected on top of datomic. Anyone know what language qldb is built on ?
- JBiserkov 6y agoI believe the intersection of use cases for QLDB and Datomic is the empty set.
- tom_b 6y agoCongratulations to Cognitect. Hopefully the acquisition will help Rich's retirement funding. (see 'History of Clojure' for the not-so-insider joke here) I have had the pleasure of "using Clojure in anger" and for a few years was very dedicated to learning how to use it effectively. This was a significant step up for my general programming skills and the simplicity of the language often saved me from myself with respect to bad design or choices in code. Whatever programmer "maturity" I can claim is probably due to Clojure and teaching introductory programming and databases (not with Clojure and Datomic to be clear). This acquisition is more abstractly interesting to me in that a VERY dedicated Clojure/Datomic company made it. We didn't see here, for lack of a better example, a FAANG company grabbing Cognitect. That may have been a choice! Maybe Cognitect went with an acquisition where they retain a high degree of autonomy with the benefits of being acquired. I never made the leap into a larger organization with Clojure at its core. I was able to use Clojure only in my small shop where I have a small degree of autonomy on development language choice. For a few years, I was somewhat actively seeking an opportunity to join a larger Clojure-oriented team but struggled to gain much traction when applying to openings. It seems possible to build a Clojure career, but I've not been very good at that.
- keeganpoppen 6y ago(for anyone who doesn't get it, Rich funded Clojure development via his retirement savings from 2005 until he ran out in 2009 https://dl.acm.org/doi/pdf/10.1145/3386321 https://dl.acm.org/doi/pdf/10.1145/3386321)
- juskrey 6y agoPretty strange how no one else sees that banks are very very fragile institutions, plus this one is heavily VC-ed, which makes everything they claim in public irrelevant (this is if we want to trust what any bank says at all). What is relevant is that Cognitect will now have 100% of income coming from the single (and fragile) source, they now do not have to compete and survive on their own, they can't say "no" when having a choice between having to conform or quit the only money source. I am not discussing personalities here - people are free to choose how to sell their products or themselves. Just thinking what this means to me as a software consultant who makes 100% of money from Clojure (yes, a fragile single choice because of sort of falling in love)
- qroshan 6y agoYeah, very strange for a bank to buy a technology stack company. Why? It strategically doesn't make any sense, unless the bank wanted Clojure/Datomic to prioritize their features and requirements. What would it mean for adoption?
- whoisjuan 6y agoHow is a bank a fragile institution? Banks are the most heavily insured and protected institutions in any modern country. In the US for example, banks not only contribute to federal insurance but also have built joint private reserves to weather economic turmoil. In the modern world banks rarely go bankrupt because if they did that would tank any confidence in the economy and create incredible chaos. Even in failed states like Venezuela banks are still a major pillar of economy confidence.
- juskrey 6y agoThis is simply false - banks are not insured against failure and not protected unless some political move "too big to fail" is made, and this only makes systemic financial system failures worse.
- jwr 6y agoWhether this is false depends on particular country laws. For example in the EU you can't call yourself a "bank" without being subject to regulation, and in Poland for example, if you are a "bank", your money is actually protected against failure, up to €100,000.
- dbancajas 6y agocan one make a career out of clojure?
- puredanger 6y agoYes. There are 100s of companies using Clojure. https://clojure.org/community/companies https://clojure.org/community/companies
- iammiles 6y agoI work full-time in the healthcare industry writing mostly Clojure(script). I wouldn't base my entire career off it (or any one language for that matter), but there are career opportunities out there using Clojure.
- tom_b 6y agoI think this a much more nuanced question than a yes-or-no answer can cover. Looking at LinkedIn or indeed.com with just a simple search for Clojure with no geographic qualifier (in the US), we see a very small number of listed openings - 252 over the last month at LinkedIn or 44 in the last 14 days at indeed. A plain google job search on Clojure jobs in the US returns an even smaller number. Some of those job listings will almost certainly have Clojure listed as part of a "laundry list" of technologies and the actual job will probably not be Clojure oriented. So just from a raw numbers perspective, the job sites to suggest that there aren't a huge number of opportunities. Comparatively speaking, there are like 60,000 Java job postings on LinkedIn in the last month. However, if you attend a Clojure/conj (one of the "primary" Clojure programming conferences), you will find that many attendees are part of some (not super-large?) number of companies that use Clojure. My best advice on building a Clojure career (that I failed to follow) is that a programmer who wants to make a Clojure career path is to be prepared to spend a significant amount of time trying to make connections inside the Clojure community. On top of that, you probably need to build a portfolio of project experience that you at minimum blog about and preferably speak at Clojure conferences, user groups, or meetups. <edit: removed off-topic thought> I would gently observe that long-time Clojure developers are maybe too close to the tree to see the forest when it comes to judging Clojure career opportunities. But I would love to be wrong about my impression of Clojure job opportunities! Perhaps fellow-HN readers could post (anonymous?) numbers of Clojure job openings for their company to give us a better idea?
- PaulHoule 6y agoWhy don't they take on the name Cognitect? It is a much better brand than Nubank and that would distinguish this from the many stories where a no brand or bad brand big co buys a good brand.
- yomly 6y agoIs it a better brand? I believe Nubank offers b2c services. What are all those customers going to think when Nubank->Cognitect...
- positr0n 6y agoNubank has over ten million customers and undoubtedly many more people in their target market that know their brand. The only people that would recognize Cognitect are clojure developers or particularly hardcore fans.
- G4BB3R 6y ago23 million customers disagree
- Ericson2314 6y ago> From their start in 2013, Nubank has grown to 600 Clojure developers, running 2.5 million lines of Clojure code in 500 microservices on over 2000 Datomic servers. Yikes that sounds like hell. Let's stop bragging about costs as a succeess store? Headcount? LoC? microservices? These are all to be minimized.
- nlitened 6y agoWhat if a typical bank usually has 20 times more LoC and 5x more developers?
- ilikehurdles 6y agoI really hope the hn trend of being reactionarily resistant against everything that isn't a postgresql monolith would stop.
- puredanger 6y agoEdward Wible, CTO at Nubank, actually makes this comparison to other banks (and how small it is) at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cYYwxgaxB0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cYYwxgaxB0 (in the first few minutes).
- ksec 6y agoI thought Nubank was an Elixir Shop but now It looks like Nubank is a much bigger Clojure shop than Elixir. So why did they acquire Plataformatec?
- kureikain 6y agoThey are a big Clojure shop. They hire Plataformatec as a consulting company. This podcast has more info: https://changelog.com/podcast/402 https://changelog.com/podcast/402
- riadvargas 6y agoWe (Nubank) actually acqui-hired Plataformatec earlier this year: https://www.contxto.com/en/startups/fintech-nubank-acqui-hires-plataformatec-team-engineers/ https://www.contxto.com/en/startups/fintech-nubank-acqui-hir...
- jwr 6y agoMy entire business is built on Clojure and ClojureScript, and it would not have been possible without these languages. I am always slightly worried by this kind of news, because it means that the main Clojure team is now dependent on a single institution. But it could be good news as well, depending on how things go. Until now, I've been getting nothing but excellence from the Clojure team: not just great tools, but also great thinking behind them. I appreciate what I've gotten (for free!) until now, and hope that the trend will continue :-)
- jonahbenton 6y agoWould love to hear what you learn from engaging on any expectations you have for roadmap. I wrote separately that I see a bright (very bright, complete game changer) future for the toolchain in finance, but finance is a special ecosystem where general purpose languages with goofy syntax become niche- sometimes very large niche, but still niche.
- jwr 6y agoNiche is fine. I don't know why people are obsessed with languages becoming dominant, or enjoy calling languages "dead". I don't need everyone to use Clojure. In fact, I'd rather prefer that my competitors use something else, because it gives me an edge over them. I don't have "expectations", I think "hopes" is a better word here. I hope to continue to profit from the core team's thinking and be able to use the tools they create and ideas they generate.
- randompwd 6y agoI mean, that may be true to a point in the long run/true outside of webdev. But the dev who intimately knows Spring & Java/Kotlin is gonna be far ahead of you for the first 9 months, given that there's so much out of the box functionality. They'll be going through a nice paint by numbers scenario for most of the heavy lifting whilst you have to expound effort in creating what's done.
- 6y ago
- geokon 6y agoDoes this mean Closure will continue to become more and more server/web focused? I could have the wrong impression, but from all the dead libraries I've come across it feels like it used to be all over the place with people doing math, visualizations/art, music, people trying to run on Android (seemingly the only JVM language that has no Android ecosystem/workflow.. crazy) etc.. Now a lot of that has atrophied and looks like it's mostly all about web. Though there are still interesting nonweb things going on - it just feels like a shrinking fraction Either way, a big congrats to the people involved. Happy for you guys. That you for all your hard work, the beautiful language that has made me enjoy programming more than ever, and all for free :)
- Heliosmaster 6y agoFWIW Clojurescript can also be used in ESP32: https://blog.tindie.com/2020/07/clojurescript-on-esp32-why-not/ https://blog.tindie.com/2020/07/clojurescript-on-esp32-why-n... Mike Fikes and the team at Vouch.io are doing some interesting work there, using cljs for IOT.
- johnfn 6y agoI think what you might be seeing is actually just a decline in interest of the language in general: https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=US&q=%2Fm%2F03yb8hb https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=US&q=%...
- beders 6y agoIt's not untypical for clojure libs to appear "dead". They will work just fine. Some libs are just "done"!
- puredanger 6y agoI disagree that people are not doing those things now or that this has changed at all. We have a decade of yearly Clojure surveys that show people continue to do all those things (and lots more). Most (70-80%) of Clojure developers work on web apps because most programmers work on web apps. People that like Clojure use it for everything you can think of and I expect them to keep doing so.
- 6y ago
- gdsdfe 6y agoAnyone have an idea on the nubank stack in a bit more details?
- riadvargas 6y agoHere you can get a somewhat updated view on Nubank's stack: https://stackshare.io/nubank/nubank https://stackshare.io/nubank/nubank
- gdsdfe 6y agoYeah thanks I saw this page ... I was just trying to understand the Plataformatec acquisition and how it fits in the stack
- jfbaro 6y agoI hope Nubank opens source DATOMIC... it would benefit a lot from community work.
- huahaiy 6y agoCongratulations! Does this mean that there is a chance for Datomic to be open sourced?
- stopachka 6y agoCongratulations team! I remember watching the Nubank infoq talk, and sensing that they have a serious hacker culture. This could be great for the clojure community. One idea, if done, could step function the community: open source datomic... Oh ma gad if that happens!
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- unexaminedlife 6y ago"Explicitly constraining and mitigating certain categories of complexity was likely to pay off in the medium and long term." 100 million % correct. It boggles my mind when I am hired onto projects to help "bring them to prod" only to find out the past several years the coding was primarily done by college grads and relative beginners. Ideally you get to rely on experts for the entirety of a project, but if your budget doesn't allow for it, at minimum I think it's early in the project that you want EXPERTS. You don't bring in experts and expect miracles after all the bad decisions have already been made and committed to.
- jacobsmith1984 6y agoNow there is a conflict of interest in Cognitect cloud services. Would you trust a bank watch over your strategic information?
- vemv 6y agoTheir Cloud offering is provided as a template, they're not a SaaS/IaaS https://docs.datomic.com/cloud/getting-started/start-system.html https://docs.datomic.com/cloud/getting-started/start-system....
- christophilus 6y agoYes.
- zeendo 6y agoIt sure would be funny if Nubank was the company from Neal Ford's story about someone sneaking Clojure into an enterprise years ago by claiming it was "just a Java library". I doubt it is but would be a pretty funny tie in.
- moocowtruck 6y agoi actually did this at a large enterprise, when i left the person taking up my mantle asked 'so this is just java right' I said 'uh ya you just include the jar and write the code like this' :D
- namelosw 6y agoWow, congratulations! I wonder, would this lead to open source Datomic in one day?
- ncmncm 6y agoI encountered a surprising remark recently: someone said they had no interest in Clojure because it is proprietary. In what way is it proprietary? Do Clojure programs depend on a runtime distributed with a restrictive license?
- puredanger 6y agoIt's not proprietary. Clojure is under the EPL 1.0 (Eclipse Public License), which is intended to be a business-friendly copy-left license.