8 ms·

Super tangential and subjective, but I found the writing in the Mass Effect games subpar. I know a lot of people think the opposite. I've spent a fair amount of

• moron4hire 6y ago
  I recently finished Outer Wilds (not to be confused with Outer Worlds) where most of the story is told through "journal entry" style text. I thought it was a very poignant, bittersweet story. I also appreciated that there's no combat in the game.
  • lordfrikk 6y ago
    Seconded. Outer Wilds was absolutely wonderful. The gameplay is lacking in places but after watching the making of documentary [1] my mind is still kind of blown by the technical side, even if it didn't transfer 100% smoothly to the player's experience. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbY0mBXKKT0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbY0mBXKKT0
    • moron4hire 6y ago
      This video has given me even more appreciation for the game. The exploration in their design process, yet still achieving very intentional design for guiding player motivation. Incredible.
• empiko 6y ago
  I think that Mass Effect had pretty good writing in the first game but the later games are pretty bad. Disco Elyseum has great writing, you might check that out.
  • OnlyLys 6y ago
    The atmosphere of the first Mass Effect was incredible. After more than a decade later, I still have fond memories of that game. The second one though, didn't really click with me, and I stopped playing the series there. Maybe with EA games being on Steam now, I could give the third one a try.
    • airstrike 6y ago
      Make sure to get all of the DLCs as it will make the third episode immensely more enjoyable
    • moomin 6y ago
      I have a different take here: ME1 I loved, it did some incredible world-building and the reveal of the true bad guy will stick with me. However, ME2 is my favourite. It’s an appreciably smaller story, but it’s all about the characters, and they’re engaging people. The first visit to the nightclub is cracking. ME3? Failure from start to finish. The opening scene just basically says “the last two games were completely irrelevant”. The ending is not only unsatisfying, it relies on stuff that was barely established even in the first game and not even mentioned in the others. It’s a textbook case of failing to stick the landing. (And the less said about “choose your favourite primary colour” as an ending the better. Should have just had one ending and made it a good one.)
      • paulmd 6y ago
        ME1 was groundbreaking for the time but really has not stood the test of time all that well. The gameplay mechanics are significantly rougher than ME2, ME2 feels like a shooter with strong RPG elements and ME1 feels like KOTOR where you get to aim the guns, it is very much an old-school bioware RPG title. The mako planet exploration is excruciatingly bad. Droid scavenger hunt on the citadel is excruciatingly bad. Endless elevator rides are excruciatingly bad. There are some sequences that felt tedious but the story is definitely the best part overall. ME2 is definitely the apex of the series by modern standards. Also you forgot to mention ME:A. Maybe your face was tired? ;)
• nicolas_t 6y ago
  I really enjoyed Horizon Zero Dawn for the writing. Portal 2 and Planescape Torments had really good writing too. But I agree with you, it's very difficult to find really well written games. Otherwise games that are closer to the old point and click adventure game genre have generally better writing: Gone Home, To the moon, The Book of Unwritten Tales, Overclocked an history of violence to name a few.
• pjc50 6y ago
  The greatest piece of games writing for me is the worldbuilding of Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri, through the informative texts for buildings and technologies. Direct narrative in games is very tricky, because it can conflict with player agency.
• smichel17 6y ago
  Psychonauts!
• 9dev 6y ago
  I suffer with you here, as I mostly play to enjoy a story interactively. That makes gaming a really frustrating experience, as players in general seem to value action and farming over a good story... there are, of course, exceptions to this though: one of my all-time favourites is The Last Of Us 1 (haven’t bought the new one yet), which had incredible writing. Another was Witcher 3, maybe not for the main story line but all the detailed stories hidden in the woods of the game. Then there’s God Of War, A Plague Tale: Innocence, Red Dead Redemption 2, and Unravel, all of which I can heavily recommend.
  • hu3 6y ago
    What do you think of The Last Of Us 2?
    • vmception 6y ago
      Different person, I think Last of Us 2 really stretches the medium and that is commendable. But the overarching themes are not satisfying. I think people forgot that Last of Us 1 wasn't a satisfying ending either, aside from being able to empathize with why people did what they did. In that light, Last of Us 2 really doubles down on making you feel dissatisfied, and I like that such a possibility mirrors real life: irrational, striving for redemption, but not necessarily getting it. I hate that I had/choose to experience this in someone else's shoes. I love that they choose to portray it. The feeling is almost analogous to watching The Road if it ended with the adult's perspective, or how Children of Men kept me entertained, on the edge of my seat and able to admire the technical prowess of the intense long scenes with no camera cuts, but not sure if the resolution was a resolution at all. And how that's life.
      • antepodius 6y ago
        I found the story of the leaks, backlash, counter-backlash, counter-counter-backlash etc. very entertaining. FOOOORE!
        • vmception 6y ago
• caycep 6y ago
  the Dishonored series for one. Not sure if "worldbuilding" and "writing" are the same, or whether resources invested in the former leads to shortcuts in narrative, etc. For Mass Effect, the main storyline seemed to be beholden to Video Game "Boss" requirements, but the side stories and character stories allowed whomever was assigned to those, to shine...
• dleslie 6y ago
  If story is your bag then Spiderweb Software's catalogue is worthy. Also the Project Eternity games: Tyranny, Pillars of Eternity 1&2.
• hiccuphippo 6y ago
  Nier:Automata has great world building and story. Also I'd suggest checking the Zero Escape games: 999 and Virtue's Last Reward.
  • robotmay 6y ago
    Seconding NieR: Automata. It's a pretty quirky game with tight controls and combat, which is a plus, but the story is interesting and has a lot of variety. In a similar sci-fi vein I've just started on Detroit: Beyond Human, which I've got high hopes for, story-wise.
• pizza234 6y ago
  > Someone suggested to not play for writing This is not correct nowadays (it was surely so 15+ years ago, very roughly before the introduction of walking simulators and/or the expansion of the indie market). Regardless, games that are strongly centered on narrative (writing) don't require a huge investment, so I think you'll mostly (or even exclusively) find them in the indie area; action/RPG games also are not the best in this department. I suggest to start with "What remains of Edith Finch" - you won't be disappointed, assuming you don't necessarily look for action/RPGs.
• polished85 6y ago
  Witcher 2 and Dragon Age Origins (also Bioware
  • foobarian 6y ago
    Second the Witcher series. They really bring out that Eastern Bloc cynicism / black humor, it is very refreshing compared to western games.
    • vetinari 6y ago
      If you played and liked the games, read the books too. There are many things that can be written in the story, but are difficult to put into gameplay or movie.
• berdario 6y ago
  I liked: Beneath a steel sky Psychonauts Ico (I don't think there was much of an explicitly stated story, it's mostly atmosphere)
• airstrike 6y ago
  Horizon: Zero Dawn was pretty awesome
  • jjoonathan 6y ago
    Yes! You might look at it and think "Robot dinosaurs in a post-apocalyptic world where humans hunt them with bows and arrows? Sounds like good dumb fun, even if the writing is preachy and nonsensical." Thing is, the writing isn't preachy and nonsensical. It's unexpectedly excellent. They did something unusual: 1. hired a good writer 2. early in development 3. listened to him and the results are phenomenal. No caveats necessary -- the story has none of the Mass Effect "strong limbs, weak backbone" issues. Also, while HZD used to be a PS exclusive it will be on steam in a few weeks.
• kroltan 6y ago
  TL;DR: Pyre and Divinity Original Sin 2 --- Disclaimer: I'm not a person to dwell too much in the specific wordings in games, mostly valuing worldbuilding and the immersive aspects of storytelling, but I do pay some attention to it. Divinity Original Sin 2 has some excellent world building, and while the overarching story might be a bit cliché "chosen one"/"zero to hero" type deal, the moment to moment narratives are pretty well made, and the quest lines are very well tied, not only giving you stuff to do, but giving opportunities to learn more about the world. And also perhaps anything made by Supergiant is a good pick, in your case I would specially recommend giving Pyre a try. I held from playing it for the longest time because I was skeptical about the in-story "sport" gameplay, but it is very well made and perfectly enhances the narrative.
• xxr 6y ago
  Fallout: New Vegas is essentially a big choose-your-own-adventure platform with several major choices of varying mutual exclusivity. The real heart and soul of FNV, though, is in the incidental stories found in side quests and companion quests--while they are rarely necessary to "win the game" (i.e., trigger the credits screen), they are often more compelling than the major quests (find the MacGuffin and pick A, B, C, or D) and allow much greater opportunity for forming the player character. I'm not sure that you'll find the total storytelling better than that of a good or great book, but I think New Vegas still leverages the type of narration that is unique (but not guaranteed) by video games. edit: Just remembered that Planescape Torment was created by Black Isle, the studio that also worked on the first two Fallout games. Black Isle later dissolved, but the key players later formed Obsidian, the studio that developed New Vegas on Bethesda's behalf. I imagine it's very likely you've already played FNV (in which case, I'd love to hear how your experience aligns with mine), but if not, it's probably up your alley.
  • naavis 6y ago
    The recent game The Outer Worlds is also very FNV-like. I really like it!
    • crooked-v 6y ago
      I, on the other hand, found it very lackluster. Most of the game's environments are filled with identical copy-paste monsters, it's almost entirely lacking all the incidental background quests and character material that make even the "bad" Fallout games feel like there's something new around every corner, and the game very visibly gets a simpler, less player-driven narrative as you go to each new world.
  • dmos62 6y ago
    I had received very strong recommendations about the first two Fallout games.
    • dahfizz 6y ago
      The very first two, like from 1997?[1] or the first two mainstream ones (fallout 3 and NV)? [1]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallout_(video_game) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallout_(video_game)
• acdha 6y ago
  Pillars of Eternity and if you haven’t, the Baldur’s Gate series. The Shadowrun RPG setting is very 90s but if you like that sort of thing the Dragonfall game a couple years back was quite well written - I had no prior experience with the RPG world but enjoyed it because of the story.
• PaulHoule 6y ago
  Visual Novels. Danganronpa. Hyperdimension Neptunia games made after 2013. I would love to see games with emotionally involving improvisational acting with A.I. characters but we're not yet there yet. Social interactions in virtual reality can can you into an intense places: characters can invade your personal space (to the point of causing an adrenaline dump) or make you feel uncomfortable by keeping too far away. Will we see something that is halfway between "Frog Blender" and "Ender's Game?"
• needle0 6y ago
  “428: Shibuya Scramble” _is_ writing, pretty much literally, as the game resides in the visual novel genre. However it manages to weave a complex tale of parallel interconnected narratives that is only possible in the digital medium; if you can approach it with an open mind I highly recommend it. One of the very few games that earned a 40/40 score in Famitsu magazine.
  • dmos62 6y ago
    Is it actually filmed? Haven't played anything like it. Thanks.
• enkid 6y ago
  There's only a few games I enjoyed for the writing. Hard Rain and LA Noire come to mind.
• dugditches 6y ago
  I know people love games, but a lot of the suggestions have writing on par with if not worse than Mass Effect. Give Disco Elysium a go. The writing's good, but how it uses Gameplay to explore that writing is what makes it great. Similar Amnesic setup to Planescape with interesting dialogue mechanics.
• nightski 6y ago
  Games aren't novels, if that is what you want. It's interactive storytelling. The interaction of story, gameplay, world building, relationships, choices, and immersion. Each individual element might not be extremely satisfying in isolation. But when combined into a cohesive experience it's something unique altogether. Mass Effect is likely revered because of how well it does that. Not because it is a good novel.
  • antepodius 6y ago
    Mass effect is a CYOA novel. The moment-to-moment gameplay doesn't matter to the story; the only way in which the story is interactive is in the CYOA choices and the passive storytelling (unlocking codex info, environmental storytelling)
    • nightski 6y ago
      Maybe the game-play doesn't matter to the story (I'd argue it does because of immersion), but it definitely affects the experience. The experience is a collection of it's parts. You can't look at one in isolation (aka the story) and say that' its inadequate compared to an experience where that is the only part (a novel). Because a game offers more than just the story and if you ignore those other parts then you aren't appreciating a game for what it is. They all work together.
      • antepodius 6y ago
        Sure, but a game would generally be improved by being less disjointed, right?
• Andrew_nenakhov 6y ago
  Star Control 2. Game lore is massive and deep, and is given out in small chunks, never overwhelming the player. Mass Effect actually borrows from this game a lot. Tie Fighter. If I had any doubts fighting for the Empire, they were all gone in just five of six missions. After that, I wanted to blast as many traitorous rebel scum from the space as I could! Betrayal at Krondor. One of the best RPGs I ever played. Writers could challenge R. Feist himself! Full Throttle. The finest LucasArts quest ever, with great characters and story.
• db48x 6y ago
  What can change the nature of a man?
  • dmit 6y ago
    20 years later we finally got the answer. Drinking yourself half to death and losing most of your memory in the process can change the nature of a man.
• olvy0 6y ago
  Interactive fiction games. I've never been a big gamer (I'm actually in a year-long hiatus from Mass Effect currently...) but I make a point of playing an interactive fiction game every few months. The older one favor logic puzzles sometimes instead of a plot, but the ones listed below do not. They take some getting used to, though. My favorites in terms of writing: Newish: - Spider and Web - Babel - Photopia - Superluminal Vagrant Twin - Harmonia - The Dreamhold Oldish: - Trinity - A Mind Forever Voyaging
  • Ari_Rahikkala 6y ago
    The Internet often makes me feel old, but seeing Photopia called a "newish" game certainly put some spryness in my joints again. It's not that it's not a great game - it is - but even in its medium, I do think it should be called a classic by now. A lot of things have changed since it was released. Over the last several years of very occasionally playing interactive fiction, I've been particularly impressed by: - Cactus Blue Motel, by Astrid Dalmady. 2016. A coming-of-age story with a bit of magical realism, written in Twine. Highly accessible, and it takes just minutes to give the game a try: http://astriddalmady.com/cactusblue.html http://astriddalmady.com/cactusblue.html - Chlorophyll, by Steph Cherrywell. 2015. Also a coming-of-age story, but mostly a rip-roaring scifi adventure. Could well make a good introduction to the more modern views on interactive fiction. - Coloratura, by Lynnea Glasser. 2013. Carpenterian horror from an unusual perspective. Swept the awards in the IF community when it came out. - Eat Me, by Chandler Groover. 2017. A twisted fairytale that's thoroughly obsessed with food - the richer and the more varied, the better. A great showing of how much a writer who's willing to go far enough with it can do with prose style.
• mbakke 6y ago
  I'm surprised no one has mentioned Metal Gear Solid in this thread (although I really enjoy all the indie suggestions). Each MGS game is essentially an epic interactive movie[^], with individual cutscenes lasting up to an hour. Granted not everyone likes Kojimas style, but those who do won't regret their time. Best played sequentially from MGS2. [^] MGS5 is a notable exception as an open-world style game and an abrubt ending, ultimately leading to Kojima leaving Konami. Still good fun and brings some of the stories from earlier games together.
  • moron4hire 6y ago
    Erhm, you'd be missing out on a lot by not playing MGS1. And MGS2 is considered one of the weaker entries in the series. As for "Kojima's style", it's basically "AAA Japanese Game Studio Style", which is "tell a coherent story through the first half, then go completely off the rails in the second."
• dantondwa 6y ago
  I really recommend Kentucky Route Zero, in case you're looking for a superbly written game. It's one of the best narration-driven games of the last few years.
• silveroriole 6y ago
  The older I get the more I find all games to have horrible writing. Even games I used to love like ME are painful on replay. Most conversations boil down to “I don’t want to do a thing.” “But I’m Commander Shepard and I’m picking the blue option.” “OK, I will do the thing now!” Recent games with ‘good writing’ (pillars of eternity, divinity, MGS5) have all left me completely cold and wondering if I’m even playing the same game as reviewers are. Maybe I can recommend games with a strong atmosphere instead. Like Morrowind, Deadly Premonition, Sleeping Dogs, Kentucky Route Zero, Silent Hill 2/3. Nier Automata if you like anime (which I don’t, so I didn’t find it as thrilling as many game reviewers seemed to).
  • rusty__ 6y ago
    There is still some good writing out there for sure. Check out Spider-man on PS4 - it's a linear game so there aren't conversation options to choose, but the writing is up there with anything else in the spider-man/marvel universe in any format in my opinion. The games you mention all seem to be games with options for dialog which if you think about it is hard to write for, games are the only medium where you're essentially choosing your own adventure and the writing has to be able to account for any/all choices and still end up leading you towards some kind of conclusion that makes some sense.
    • silveroriole 6y ago
      Hmm, I agree the writing in games can be on par with the writing in comic books and superhero movies, but I’m not sure that’s a compliment :)
  • Sharlin 6y ago
    Have you tried Planescape: Torment? The original Deus Ex (the prequels are definitely lackluster)? VtM: Bloodlines? Life is Strange? Dishonored?
    • TheDauthi 6y ago
      What can change the nature of a man?
• Koshkin 6y ago
  Surprised nobody has mentioned the Metro series. It’s made after a book, and I think it’s pretty good story-wise...
• de6u99er 6y ago
  God of War 4 The last of us Uncharted 3 + 4 Shadow of the Colossus Metal Gear Solid (I recommend watching one of those videos putting the story into chronological order) GTA 4 Red Dead Redemption 2 ToDo's on my list: - The Last of us 2 - Ghost of Tsushima