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I don't understand the nostalgia for these planes. I see a big plane and I think "cattle car." There's nothing nice about sitting in the middle section of a h
by massysett 6y ago
I don't understand the nostalgia for these planes. I see a big plane and I think "cattle car." There's nothing nice about sitting in the middle section of a huge wide-body plane, far from the luggage bin, far from the window, and with the prospect of climbing over several people or waking them up so you can go to the bathroom. It takes a long time to board and deplane them.
Moreover, as a passenger I want point-to-point air service at a convenient time. This is possible with smaller airplanes. Big plane requires funneling passengers to some big gateway airport so they can fill the gigantic plane. That requires spending time in airports. Not interested.
If the nostalgia is that there's something elite about a big plane: Gordon Gekko didn't fly around in a 747.
There's a reason these planes are obsolete. Planes like the 737 have democratized air travel and made it affordable for everyone. That's a much bigger achievement than the 747 will ever be. And I'll take the convenient frequent long-distance service that narrow-body planes offer (US mainland to Hawaii on a 737? Amazing!) over a 747 any day. A curving staircase on an airplane just doesn't scream "cool" to me.
- pjdemers 6y agoSome airlines fitted the upstairs as a special business class (British, United, the old Northwest). The cabin up there had almost a private jet feel.
- dmix 6y agoAre manufacturers still building giant planes these days? I don't follow the industry. I agree with the middle seat part, after being stuck on an overseas Air India flight with babies on both sides. I just assumed it was bigger because they want to pack more in for long flights. Smaller plane = better. At least for less close contact, which will be valued more with recent events.
- gms 6y agoThe BA 747's in particular are ghastly by current standards. Glad I won't be stuck in one anymore.
- iso1631 6y agoYes, once you remove the rose tinted glasses you realise just how poor they are (and indeed how poor BA is outside the very newest planes. That said last BA flight I did I got upgraded from permium economy to Business, then moved to First, on a new 4 class A350. Couldn't complain too much.
- taneq 6y agoIt was the only plane with an upstairs. I never got to go upstairs. :(
- kadabra9 6y agoA380s have upstairs. They are being phased out too, but there are still a bunch flying, mostly on international carriers. Always loved flying a380s
- seanmcdirmid 6y agoI’ve only ever flown on a 380 for a domestic route (Guangzhou to Beijing), couldn’t really tell anything special about it, it was just lots of economy class.
- iso1631 6y agoWhile the A380 has an upstairs, you board directly to it, not really the same feeling.
- ggm 6y agoIt wasn't the first, the clipper had an upstairs. It's the one we got democratisation on: it helped make cheap worldwide long haul. I used upstairs a lot. It was nice. Side bins, and quieter. Upstairs on a 380 is different. The nearest comparator is the Emirates lounge bar up the back.
- dutch3000 6y agoat least you can still go upstairs on those red, double decker buses :)
- taneq 6y agoWhen I was in London I did, every single time. :)
- dzhiurgis 6y agoShame never put a windscreen there.
- chrissnell 6y agoTo experience them at their best, you have to fly international first class. I've had the fortune of doing this a number of times on the 747. I've sat upstairs (which is typically business class) and at the very front, which is usually first class. It's fantastic. You have room to stretch and you're treated very well. Here are a few photos from my Lufthansa first class experience. https://www.instagram.com/p/B00TFMcHA4a/?igshid=caikqjatjldk https://www.instagram.com/p/B00TFMcHA4a/?igshid=caikqjatjldk The photos are: - the famous rubber duckies from the Lufthansa First Class lounge in Frankfurt. They have private bathrooms with full baths that you can use. - the obligatory outside-by-the-jet photo that you can take when they pick you up in a luxury car on the tarmac (not that white one) - Seat 1K on a LH 747-800 - The Porsche that they pick you up in when you're changing flights or going to the lounge.
- foobarbecue 6y agola de dah
- gilrain 6y agoOoh, how nice for <0.1% of humanity.
- garmaine 6y agoI think you overestimate the high end of that bound.
- 2arrs2ells 6y agoInternational first class is accessible to anyone with a decent US credit history, a somewhat flexible schedule, & an interest in figuring out semi-complex systems. I flew Cathay Pacific first class Toronto => Hong Kong as a recent college grad on a teacher's salary.
- km3r 6y agoAny tips for these systems? I'm imagine you are navigating deals and points systems but I dont have much travel expirance yet.
- saalweachter 6y agoI suspect the nostalgia is the same old story: it was big when Baby Boomers were young.
- anon102010 6y agoI did international first in the 747. Def not ‘cattle car’. The front windows are angled so you can see forward more than usual - it’s surprisingly quiet in the top front and the views were beautiful- you felt like you were floating. I slept well too which is rare (wine may have helped) and fun to think of the engineering that went into these big birds. Only negative is that it is all so over the top - wife and I more comfortable in biz or e+
- daseiner1 6y agoi’m sorry, did you just sincerely talk about your experience in international first-class as a retort to the cattle car conditions that 95%+ of the passengers on the very same flight as you would’ve experienced?
- mjrbrennan 6y agoNot the OP, but I think they mean the first time they flew internationally, it was in a 747?
- daseiner1 6y agothat was my thought until: “Only negative is that it is all so over the top - wife and I more comfortable in biz or e+”
- kelnos 6y agoRight, they meant that the trappings of first class are so over the top that it makes them uncomfortable. Odd thing is I thought the 747 was usually configured with biz class upstairs (I got a biz upgrade on a SIN->DPS flight many years ago and flew upstairs) and first class in the front of the main level, so maybe they weren't talking about first class. Or perhaps some airlines have/had 747s with first upstairs.
- elygre 6y ago
- 28278 6y agoYou're absolutely correct that passenger experience on these large planes are fairly inferior to modern, smaller ones today (for everyone not in first class) but it's the 747's historical impact that stirs up the nostalgia. When it first entered service in the 70s, the 747 was the aircraft that democratized travel in its time. Its massive capacity cut ticket prices in half while its range enabled new direct flights. It's also this engineering marvel. The 747 dwarfed its next closest competitor in size and was not only the first double decker, but also the first widebody plane ever introduced. Engineers in the 60s created it with their pre-CAD tools and modern aircraft are built on their work. Even though the economics of the plane were terrible, many airlines still flew it because it was such a massive leap forward in progress. Even today, it stands out at airports as a truly iconic design among the other fairly homogenous planes. While the 747 no longer really fits into today's economic environment, it's still fondly remembered for its role in getting us here.
- function_seven 6y ago> Engineers in the 60s created it with their pre-CAD tools and modern aircraft are built on their work. Something my dad told be about that plane: "If you took all the drawings required to design the 747, and put them in a 747, it would never get off the ground." He worked at Boeing in the early 60s, and had a lot of cool stories about how the place ran. Traffic signals synced to the shift changes (on 7-minute intervals) for all employees at the plant. The insane process efficiency required to use a pencil and paper to design a project that complex. Etc.
- tdrp 6y agoSince nobody's mentioned it yet: I find they feel very stable in turbulence. I used to do the SFO-Europe route 10-12 times a year and whenever we were on an A330 and encountered even mild turbulence the food would end up on our face and neighbor's coffee on my lap. I'm not an aeronautic engineer so I can't explain why but the ride was always smooth on 747s even in otherwise non-ideal conditions. I've flown the 787 since then and I don't even think it handles as well, but not enough data. I will miss it.
- andrewg 6y agoIt's the wing loading (max takeoff weight / sqft of the wing). The 747-400's is something like 155 lb/sqft vs. 124 for the 787-8. In general, the higher the wing loading the better the ride.
- t0mas88 6y agoIn general yes, but the 777 and 787 have a system to automatically move the inboard aileron to reduce the impact of turbulence.
- sho 6y agoI concede this is ridiculously pedantic, but the system you're talking about is called "gust supression", and uses the flaperons (not the ailerons) in coordination with the elevators. The ailerons are only used for turning and are so far out that trying to use them for altitude control would probably just move (and stress) the wings. It's a very cool system though!
- seanmcdirmid 6y agoMost economy seats on a 747 are 3-4-3. It’s really similar to a 777, it’s only the person in a window seat who had to climb over two people, while overhead is similar from either seat since it also goes down the middle. Wide bodies rarely run out of convenient overhead space, especially on international trips that they are mostly used for. Really all the planes are similar and kind of boring unless you fly an old Russian one.
- nwallin 6y agoI get what you're saying, but I think you're missing the point. They're obsolete, yeah, but so is the Commodore 64, the Chevy Stingray, the Saturn V, the Nokia 3310... It was the symbol of an era. The current era is objectively better -- you're not wrong -- but while nostalgia isn't necessarily rational, it's not irrational either.
- wdr1 6y ago> I don't understand the nostalgia for these planes. I see a big plane and I think "cattle car." Perhaps. But flying business class in the upper deck is definitely not cattle car material.
- ponker 6y agoThe 747 is aviation’s Taj Mahal — revered not only for its history but its sheer beauty, which in all the years since its introduction has not even come close to being matched.
- raz32dust 6y agoThere is a visceral pleasure in the "bigness" of it. The roar of 4 engines, how it stood far above all the smaller jets, like you are in a semi truck in the middle of the road surrounded by compact sedans. More economical planes are awesome and clearly the way forward, but it does not have the same sensual feel as something bigger or faster or louder. It is too abstract.
- Xixi 6y agoBoeing 747 made intercontinental flights a possibility, thanks to its huge size. Especially trans-pacific flights. Before the 747 you had to do many stops along the way, the 747 brought direct flights. It was truly a game changer, anything that came after was just improvements. There were no direct New-York - Tokyo flights before the 747. And that's not happening on a 737 any time soon. This is due to simple laws of physics, really: fuel consumption grows with the exposed surface of the plane (roughly growing with the square of its size), while the size of the fuel tanks grows according to the volume (roughly the cube of the plane size). Hence small planes for short trips, big planes for long trips, and very big planes for very long trips. Of course advances in efficiency allows for smaller planes to go further, hence why the A380 failed, the 777X is failing, and even the A350-1000 is having a hard time. Personaly I find flying on 737 or A320 a pretty horrid experience: 6 seats for one aisle, versus 9 seats (787 or A350) for two aisles in a wide-body. I like walking around, and don't care for windows though, so I guess it's a matter of taste.
- Symbiote 6y ago> I want point-to-point air service at a convenient time Just on this point, there are plenty of people who live near the gigantic airports (like LHR), who experience the big aircraft without connections.
- perl4ever 6y agoI don't know what 747s have been used for on average, but I associate them with a once-in-a-lifetime trip across the Atlantic. So talking about the merits of smaller planes or not liking "gateway airports" seems irrelevant in the context of that being how you got across an ocean.