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The Incredibly Stupid One
- sonofgod 6y agoPart of the recitation of names mentioned in the article: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-7ktaSAjGA&t=1950 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-7ktaSAjGA&t=1950 Less musical than I expected...
- jml7c5 6y agoHis Wikipedia entry: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doug_Hegdahl https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doug_Hegdahl
- simonebrunozzi 6y agoMan, what a story. Please, HN readers, dedicate 15 minutes of your time today to read it. It's so worth it. I won't spoil some of the great passages, but let me leave you with the conclusion: > These sailors are the products of the neighborhoods, churches, schools and families working together to produce individuals blessed with a sense of humor and the gift of freedom who can overcome any kind of odds. These sailors are tremendously loyal and devoted to their units and their leaders in their own private and personal ways. > As long as we have the Dougs of this world, our country will retain its freedoms.
- alecco 6y agoAmazing story. But I doubt it will stay for long in the front page.
- kgarten 6y agoWe are talking about the vietnam war ... how were soldiers fighting in it retaining the freedoms of the US? Just wondering ...
- dragonwriter 6y ago> We are talking about the vietnam war ... how were soldiers fighting in it retaining the freedoms of the US? The soldiers that fought the Vietnam war didn't merely retain freedoms, they established practical, though not Constitutional, freedom from conscription.
- zeveb 6y agoWell, they were defending the freedoms of South Vietnam, which was a sovereign republic which was being invaded by another country. They were resisting international Communism, which had a goal of establishing Communist governments in every country, to include the United States. So by defending South Vietnam from its invader they were defending the United States.
- kgarten 6y agoNo, a coup in South Vietnam happened, that lead to starting the war. They were not invaded. Not arguing about the sovereign nation part, yet I recommend you read up a bit on the history (maybe not only US history books). vietnam war domino theory, haven’t heared that in a while. So the US was defending their freedoms against communism ... and lost? So they lost their freedom and communism took over the world? Watch Apocalypse Now and full metal jacket to see how freedoms were defended.
- xivzgrev 6y agoI’m amazed by his cleverness. Playing dumb to get one up on his captors. I also really liked how he took steps to protect his senior after his release.
- dasudasu 6y agoWhat is the actual physical process in getting sent overboard from a firing ship? That does seem very unusual.
- abfan1127 6y agohave you ever shot a gun? The rapid gas expansion which expels the bullet can get quite big for big guns like 50cal. Now scale that up to a bullet 8" (20cm) in diameter which has an ultrasonic muzzle velocity. The shock wave from a shot fired could push a person so hard, they go over a railing into the water. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApJbzEKdlvQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApJbzEKdlvQ
- topkai22 6y agoYup- an 8" gun uses ~90 lbs of powder. That is a big blast and not all of it goes forward.
- dasudasu 6y agoI’m picturing someone already leaning over the railing, somewhat close to the gun, by himself (since nobody alerted of his fall), while his ship is firing and cruising in enemy waters. My mental image might be wrong, but not exactly the smartest way to get captured.
- NikolaeVarius 6y agohttps://youtu.be/dVvEPTYrcXA?t=100 https://youtu.be/dVvEPTYrcXA?t=100
- refurb 6y agoI’ve never seen a better answer summarized in a youtube link than this one.
- chris_wot 6y ago"And, yes, She did have Canberra, Australia on her Port of Call list." That might be somewhat difficult, given Canberra is entirely inland.
- eternalban 6y ago"You did not go to Oxford, you went to Vietnam."
- gumby 6y agoWell technically Jervis bay is part of the ACT but you’d have a hard time getting a military ship in there.
- kirrent 6y agoOne of my favourite facts about Jervis Bay Territory is that while: -It is counted as part of the ACT for senate representation. -It is part of the seat of Fenner in the ACT for the house of reps. -It is governed under the laws of the ACT. It is still legally a separate territory. Great for a tricky trivia question.
- CarbyAu 6y agoI did ICT support for the ACT government. Jervis Bay was a pain in the arse.
- nemo 6y ago>One morning he had the 0100 watch while the Canberra was steaming down the coast of North Vietnam firing its 8-inch guns against targets of opportunity (bicycles, water buffalo and occasional trucks) on Highway 1. Just steaming along casually bombarding civilians and livestock like normal.
- nickff 6y agoThe North Vietnamese would often transport military supplies on livestock, by bicycle, and in unmarked vehicles. In any case, it doesn't excuse their repeated torture and murder of PoWs.
- teachrdan 6y agoThat's a straw man argument. To apply the principle of generosity, OP is referring to the author's total lack of acknowledging US crimes against Vietnamese civilians, even as it focuses (quite reasonably!) on the torture of American POWs. There can be no conversation about the US war in Vietnam without recognizing the hundreds of thousands of civilians killed by American forces. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_War#Casualties https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_War#Casualties
- nickff 6y agoWhat are you talking about? Not everything you dislike is a logical fallacy. I am not saying that I know for a fact that those targets were military; I am just saying that it was very difficult to differentiate 'legitimate targets' in a situation where the enemy does not advertise their insignia (as required by the Geneva Conventions). The Vietnam War was a war, and wars cause civilian casualties. North Vietnam ran a very effective, organized campaign of terror against South Vietnam and its supporters. The South Vietnamese and American forces were each responsible for many deaths of innocents, through negligence and more isolated malevolence.
- AtlasBarfed 6y agoWhy were we there again? "A war is a war" is a particularly terrible argument given the war in discussion was the Vietnam War
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- Supermancho 6y ago> The Communists took a siesta for two hours every afternoon which was a good deal for us as we were free from torture and harassment. I was laying on the floor on my bed board and Doug was skipping, yes, skipping around the room. My mental state also reacts to stress with unreasonable cheerfulness, at times. It has something to do with the joy of all the new problems and opportunities paired with an appreciation/confidence that I am not going to die imminently (he was put in a cell where they kept long-term prisoners), in the face of it...a type of relief. Having survived multiple events where my survival was in serious question, I am a consummate pessimist with an expectation that I can die at any time. Therein lies a freedom. Skip if you can. Live. I get it.
- lanius 6y ago>Having survived multiple events where my survival was in serious question Out of curiosity, what were these events?
- Supermancho 6y agoEmergency open heart surgery, severe anaphylaxis from a previously unknown allergy to tetracycline that swelled all my tissues (internally as well) which had all the bad effects you can imagine (unconsciousness frozen joints/lockjaw swelled tongue etc after severe pain) with lumps the size of fists on my limbs, starving to the point of eating out of the dumpster (a year of living out of my car) multiple times (you can graze within grocery stores for so long), nearly freezing to death in an alleyway in new york city next to the hudson with my now wife, aggresive-yet-otherwise-benign tumor growing on my scalp (years later that has left a MASSIVE scar), etc. I count about 12 for just myself.
- lanius 6y agoWas the US unaware that POWs were being tortured at the Hanoi Hilton before Brent's release?
- topkai22 6y agoI don’t think so, but the Northern Vietnamese generated a bunch of FUD about it. Gross simplification, but essentially committed anti-war activists or others opposed to the US campaign (including foreign powers) would sometimes accept the Northern Vietnamese account of humane treatment as fact. What Brent did was get concrete intelligence about exactly who was still alive and in prison, so that families could know their relatives were still alive and N. Vietnam could be publicly held to account for their survival at least.
- brian_herman__ 6y agoReminds me of this guy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremiah_Denton https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremiah_Denton He repeatedly blinked his eyes in Morse code during the interview, spelling out "T-O-R-T-U-R-E".
- price 6y agoThanks for that link! I had not known that story - but in retrospect I know I've seen references to it a number of times. The story is so wild that... I always assumed it was a fictional trope, and didn't think to look for a real story behind it. Glad to be educated.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- griffinkelly 6y agoI heard a former RF-4 pilot and POW at the Hanoi Hilton speak; it was honestly one of the best motivational speeches I've ever hear. Talk about a positive look on life. The other amazing thing was seeing him do the 'tap code' in real time.
- doug1001 6y agois the former pilot you are referring to, Ron Bliss? He passed away in 2006; he and i were neighbors; i knew him very well
- dreamcompiler 6y agoThis is an amazingly cool story. One of the best things I've read on the internet.
- grecy 6y agoPlaying dumb works extremely well to get out of extortion attempts too. I've driven through a stack of countries notorious for extortion by Police and Military - Congo, Nigeria, Honduras, Kenya, Guinea - just to name a few. One of my tactics to avoid paying a cent is playing dumb. It's super easy when they don't speak English. I do my best to understand their (French/Spanish/Portuguese/Whatever), all the while remaining very polite and friendly. It's a real shame when I don't understand they want money, and virtually always they wave me through in disgust. On a two year drive from Alaska to Argentina I paid one $5 bribe. In three years around Africa through 35 countries I paid once in Ivory Coast, because I was too big for my boots and let on that I speak French. Playing dumb has a lot of advantages. For anyone interested, here's me dealing with a real-life extortion attempt in Nigeria [1]. This was in Nigeria, so it's all in English, but the script is identical in any corrupt country. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RTlDa2cg0o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RTlDa2cg0o
- simonebrunozzi 6y agoThanks for sharing your video. You kept your cool.
- siegfried-en 6y agoThat was an incredible fun ride! Thanks for sharing
- iamwil 6y agoThanks for sharing. Watched and enjoyed. How did you learn how to do that? Trial and error? Or you rode with someone else?
- grecy 6y agoPurely trial and error. The day I drove into Mexico I had no idea, and I just made it up as I went along. 55 countries later through Latin America and Africa, and I've become fairly good at it :) I made a couple of videos lately to teach other people how to do it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOljPXY0Smg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOljPXY0Smg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdQPz0I-Mgc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdQPz0I-Mgc
- nonesuchluck 6y ago> Upon release I compared notes with Doug and we determined that time frame was the same time he accused the Vietnamese in Paris of murdering me [I had not written home once writing became voluntary] for embarrassing them in a Life magazine bowing picture. Thanks to Doug, despite the scars on my body, the Communists had to produce me alive at the end of the war. I'm feeling a bit stupid myself, because I'm not following the implication here. Why would Hegdahl's accusation cause the VC to leave Stratton alive, or to check him for signs of torture, or to pay him any special attention at all? If Hegdahl hadn't ever mentioned him, why would they kill Stratton specifically? I enjoyed the story, and appreciate the tongue-in-cheek delivery, but it may have been intended for an audience better acquainted with the geopolitics of the war than I am. Any help?
- topkai22 6y agoI'm making some assumptions here, but the N. Vietnamese viewed the prisoners as political negotiating chips. They were very casually indifferent to their survival and indeed many died. Quite a few were killed. However, the N. Vietnamese tried to paint a very different picture publicly, that the POWs were being humanely treated. Doug openly accusing the N. Vietnamese of murdering Stratton meant the Stratton's value to come out of his imprisonment alive was greatly increased, as that made the N. Vietnamese look good and the Americans look more foolish. Stratton, for various reasons, may also have thought the N. Vietnamese would kill/disappear him because he had signs of obvious torture, which would put lie to their claims of humane treatment. The fact this happened "in Paris" indicates it happened during the Paris peace accords (which effectively ended most US involvement in the Vietnam war), so was a matter of concern to the top officials in the country.
- a_e_k 6y agoThe way I read it was that they'd tortured Stratton and he had the scars as evidence to prove that they had. They might have been tempted to just quietly execute him at the end, dump his body to hide that he had been tortured, and then deny that they'd had him (remember he hadn't written home). Instead Hegdahl shined a big diplomatic spotlight on Stratton to try to get them to get them to acknowledge having him alive and deny having murdered him. After that, they'd want to make sure their denial of murder stays true.
- lioeters 6y agoReminds me of the archetype of the "wise fool".. > To call a man a fool is not necessarily an insult, for the authentic life has frequently been pictured under the metaphor of the fool. > In figures such as Socrates, Christ, and the Idiot of Dostoyevsky we see that foolishness and wisdom are not always what they seem to be. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wise_fool https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wise_fool