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Airbnb asks people to donate money to landlords, backlash ensues

255 points by koolba 6y ago

thealistra 6y ago
Wouldn't it be a better idea to have some CTA for like future booking or booking voucher so the hosts can get money now for a future service? So you know if someone really likes a place and visits it every year can spare a few bucks if they can to freeze it
- julianlam 6y ago
  Honest question, how is this different from just booking in advance?
  - Jetroid 6y ago
    Presumably because with the current Pandemic, a lot of people don't know when they will travel next, so can't really pick a date to book. The intent here seems to be to ensure that your favourite family-owned chalet can weather the pandemic without you necessariliy going there any time soon.
  - PeterisP 6y ago
    Booking in advance requires knowing the dates of travel beforehand, the proposal above does not.
codecamper 6y ago
I guess AirBNB founders got tired of being interrupted during sushi.
mathattack 6y ago
This seems counter-productive. Housing costs are up because of AirBnB. I’m not thrilled, but that’s the market. The market needs to reprice. Folks who bet on the market would get rich if the bet paid off. Let them sell their places, and someone else can rent them out in the future. Call me callous but I don’t feel the need to bail out someone who charged me $500/night on a place with a $3000 monthly payment. I entered the transaction freely, and the transaction is over.
- davidf18 6y ago
  Actually housing costs are up not because of AirBnb but poor regulation of AirBnb's. Hosts in NYC, where I live, are required to live on premises while their spare room(s) are rented out. They are not allowed to buy other properties. That should be a universal regulation in all cities that AirBnb operates and that would help to fix the higher housing costs from AirBnb.
- mchusma 6y ago
  Housing costs are not up because of Airbnb, they are up because of government regulation. If we wanted housing to cost to buy a house in the US to be $100k average, we could do it almost overnight by lifting regulations unrelated to safety. With existing automation tech (produce like industry instead of custom each time) we could get it to $50k. In 10 years we could make housing affordable if we had the societal will. I think you can make many arguments that being more expensive is worth it (more free parking is an example of what is included in the price of a home today), but there is no technical reason homes cannot be very inexpensive. You can also argue it's a "feature not a bug" from existing homeowners, who work to reduce supply (zoning, NIMBY, etc).
  - nicoburns 6y ago
    > Housing costs are not up because of Airbnb I think they are partially. In London, rents have decreased 25%-50% since COVID. Part of that will be reduced demand. But I have also seen a lot of rooms advertised for long-term rental that were previously Airbnbs. We could certainly ameliorate this by building more houses. But here in the UK we're a lot more limited by available land space than you are in the US. And while there is limited supply it makes sense to prioritise making primary dwellings affordable over profit making for landlords.
    - DINKDINK 6y ago
      >> Housing costs are not up because of Airbnb >I think they are partially. You're mistaking housing costs with prices. Housing costs are the input prices of components that entrepreneurs accept or reject to produce housing. Such as: * price materials producers demand for their products (concrete, wood, electrical wire etc) * the labor prices, labor sellers demand (Carpenters, iron workers, etc) * the prices land owners demand to either keep land undeveloped or developed * the prices state agents demand to abstain from interfering with home building. Consumption can't drive up a producer's input costs. Consumers may abstain from purchasing from a producer unless the producer meets different inputs ("I demand you only buy the labor of architects who live near me and not people far away").
cwhiz 6y ago
This is outrage porn, not news. Absolutely pointless article that has nothing to do with technology, at all.
pavel_lishin 6y ago
> Airbnb has lost its fucking head. Why would I donate to my host? I can't even afford one house. Well, at least it sounds like many of those hosts can't, either.
- kozhevnikov 6y ago
  Other articles of this topic mentioned this titbit: > The financial situation is especially dire for megahosts, some of whom bought up dozens of properties and built short-term-rental empires that made up their main source of income (about one-third of Airbnb hosts have more than 25 properties, according to the analytics site AirDNA). https://www.businessinsider.com/airbnb-asking-renters-to-donate-kindness-cards-backlash-2020-7 https://www.businessinsider.com/airbnb-asking-renters-to-don...
  - malechimp 6y ago
    It's called investing. Investing is another name for risking. Those people risked. Atm they are losing. In future they might gain. Heck, for years before that they were gaining big time. Unless they have a very strong lobby (such as bankers, etc) they cannot make anyone else pay for their loss. And that's how it's supposed to be.
  - sleavey 6y ago
    The attitude of many people towards property is incredible. People expect house prices to rise and rise and somehow think they've been wronged by society/government policy/acts of god if the bubble bursts and they lose money. I've been called out by many ordinarily level headed people for saying that owning property is a risky investment.
    - Nasrudith 6y ago
      It isn't just property but also jobs and industries. Look at the vastly disproportionate amount of tears for coal miners. That feeling seems to apply to any way to make a living that they react hostility to being told is risky. Because everything is an investment and everything is a risk including not taking one. I suspect it has to do with Calvinism essentially and the religious fixation of work as righteous and a guarantee such that anything going wrong is "bad things happening to good people" and a fundamental sign that things Aren't Right and Someone is to blame.
treebornfrog 6y ago
I suspect that a lot of people jumped on the airbnb hype train and thought they could be a landlord of multiple properties and probably got leveraged. Now they're in trouble as their income dries up.
- paulcole 6y ago
  Interesting theory. How’d you come to that conclusion?
  - fennecfoxen 6y ago
    Perhaps poster has read news coverage. https://www.wsj.com/articles/a-bargain-with-the-devilbill-comes-due-for-overextended-airbnb-hosts-11588083336 https://www.wsj.com/articles/a-bargain-with-the-devilbill-co...
    - paulcole 6y ago
      I thought it might’ve been this quote from the original article: > Airbnb has created a mechanism in which you can....donate money to landlords....many of whom have overextended themselves by leveraging multiple properties It’s a big leap to make but I can see how that would influence their theory.
- tirpen 6y ago
  > Now they're in trouble as their income dries up. Good.
  - treebornfrog 6y ago
    Darwinism at it's finest.
  - throwaway98797 6y ago
    Serves them right for taking a risk.
jamesholden 6y ago
ha.. haha.. haaaahahahahahahahahah No but seriously, Airbnb what were you thinking.
claudeganon 6y ago
I wonder how much of Airbnb is a retread of 2008, where you have people massively over-leveraged on rental properties that they could never afford without constant, growing bookings.
freeAgent 6y ago
It’s amazing to me that Airbnb tells people that it’s up to them to determine if their contributions are tax deductible. Why would they even write this? Hosts on Airbnb are for-profit enterprises. I’ve never heard or a registered non-profit running Airbnb rentals. What are they thinking?
- evancox100 6y ago
  I was baffled by this too. Maybe in the initial testing people saw this and this question came up? Probably very few people overall know how this stuff works.
  - ma2rten 6y ago
    Or maybe their lawyers told them to write that it's not tax deductible and then a marketing person wrote this.
Raed667 6y ago
I got prompted to donate to a host I stayed with for a few days and only saw once many-many months ago. Heck NO! What is their reasoning here!? I have zero emotional connection with that person. Nor do I think they are entitled to my charity.
- ponyous 6y ago
  So don't donate? I've been in AirBnB hosts where the landlady would make deserts for us and all kinds of stuff, just because she was nice and bored. We enjoyed it very much and I would tip her via AirBnb - she didn't want cash, except once - pre-agreed for multi course meal where she fed a group of 4, and it was pretty much just for the resources. There was a guy in SF that took me around shown me the city, etc... I enjoyed this too and would tip him. I have more examples of that.
  - CaptainZapp 6y ago
    Then why don't just leave them 50$ in cash if you really want to tip them?
    - reustle 6y ago
      Because this is months/years after the fact and you likely don't live anywhere close to the host.
  - mateus1 6y ago
    Why would you donate money to people who are houseowners and up until few months ago were racking in profits by renting? This is not even charity, it's just pointless.
    - zenexer 6y ago
      There are hosts who aren’t abusing AirBnB—they’re just uncommon. When you do get one, you know it. I can see why people would want to tip in those cases, especially if you’re paying significantly less than a nearby hotel for much greater value, and often a personalized experience. But it’s rare. That doesn’t change the fact that AirBnB has a big problem, and what they’re doing here is tone-deaf. Yeah, tips might make sense sometimes, but fix the problem before you start soliciting tips.
malechimp 6y ago
Being a regular customer in a very hot market (Dublin) I can attest that most of the places I've been to were grossly overpriced and let's not speak about the quality. Back in the fat cows era (up until a few months ago) it seemed that Airbnb was synonymous to "if you have a spare doghouse in a hot overpriced market then you can make very good money out of it". Not to mention how airbnb was contributing to such markets to get even more overpriced by causing shortages. And now they are urging customers to sponsor hosts... Yup. Definitely someone there must have lost it entirely.
- Raed667 6y ago
  They must be so disconnected that they feel their hosts and guests are actually having a meaningful connection. Most of my Airbnb interactions don't go beyond the exchange of keys (or not even that with the key boxes). I have no sympathy for landlords or Airbnb, they are just going to have to deal with the market like everyone else.
  - Mediterraneo10 6y ago
    Not only does one actually meet one's host much rarely these days compared to AirBnB's early years, but the cases where one indeed interacts with the host are often pretty tiresome, think lonely elderly people who just keep talking after you have tried to make it clear that you are tired and want to be alone. Sadly, this doesn't get mentioned much in reviews for fear of upsetting the host or the forced-positivity corporation that is AirBnB, so it is very hard to avoid these awkward encounters completely.
  - rrrazdan 6y ago
    I know your comment is for the majority but I have had meaningful connections with my hosts. Some I am still in touch years later. If the host reached out to me on their own, I would probably help them. But to have Airbnb guilt trip people into donating is beyond me as well.
    - malechimp 6y ago
      I think we are mistaking Airbnb for couchsurf. Even in the cases when I met my hosts the transaction was 100% monetary one. Not one of them, ever, offered me to stay some more free of charge - just because we got along well. And I did get along well with all of them. On the contrary, I have slept on the floor at a friends house a few nights because some of these hosts hanged me at the last moment (e.g. when they realized that my flight was coming in too late for them). Don't take me wrong. I'm not venting here. It took me a while to realize it myself, that Airbnb is not couchsurfing. It is a market. And a hard one at that. That's fine by me but donations are not part of such markets.
throwaway0a5e 6y ago
You know who's still paying their rent on time? The government. The section 8 landlords are enjoying some serious schadenfreude right now because even though they only cash small checks once a month they're the only ones still cashing checks at all. Short term rentals have an effective monthly rent far in excess of the normal monthly rent for equivalent accommodations. With this payoff comes risk. The money source can dry up on you much faster. I have no more sympathy for people who went all in on AirBNB than I do for people who went all in on day trading.
- yardie 6y ago
  This has been kept secret for years. Landlords that know what they are doing go after those section 8 contracts. Most people wouldn't be able to recognize a section 8 renter if they were standing right in front of them. My old apartment, complete with modern amenities, had section 8 renters. It was targeted towards young professionals. But new construction made it 100% ADA-compliant. Which is perfect for wheelchair bound social security-disability check receivers. According to the property manager, "no problem with section, unlike you, they always pay rent on time!"
  - wow_no 6y ago
    This this this. Most Section 8 renters are elderly or disabled, nothing like the stereotypes. Section 8 is a fantastic program that deserves more credit for avoiding the issues that plague the Projects.
sleavey 6y ago
This was really short sighted given Airbnb have claimed since the beginning to regulators, local authorities and the public that they exist only to provide a platform for people to rent out their spare rooms when it's convenient for them. Their core claim is that they are not a hotel company, which is how they manage to skirt so many hotel regulations. Built into these claims is the assumption that the owners of the properties offered on the platform can afford to keep them without renting then out full time, since it's supposed to be their primary home. In reality, Airbnb is a glorified hotel room broker but with added facilitation of discrimination, normalisation of the charging of extra fees such as for "cleaning" (how have hotels managed to get by since time immemorial without charging one!?), rating obfuscation and a huge negative impact on local rental prices with landlords assembling empires of dozens of Airbnb properties. The fact Airbnb were so tone deaf to all this, asking the public to offset the losses made by landlords in times like these is really incredible.
- jliptzin 6y ago
  Not disagreeing with you except about the cleaning fee. Hotels usually clean every room every day and have an on-site cleaning staff. The marginal cost to clean one room is pretty low, and it happens every day while you’re there, so it’s baked into the price. On Airbnb, typically your place is cleaned once after you leave whether you stayed one night or two weeks, and it’s more expensive than just cleaning a hotel room, so it’s a separate charge, as it should be.
  - claudeganon 6y ago
    ...which is baked into their room rates? It’s predatory to advertise a lower rate and then inflate it after the fact with all kinds of tacked on fees. People (rightfully) go nuts at hotels that try to do this.
    - jliptzin 6y ago
      What is being inflated after the fact? When you book on Airbnb it shows you all the fees including cleaning fee before you book...
setgree 6y ago
I would prefer a world in which we didn't call some people griping on twitter "news". Two popular HN pieces have recently touched on how journalists and newspapers give twitter too much weight: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23833267 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23833267 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23827073 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23827073 All I'm seeing in this article is a few people trying to get that dopamine rush of engagement by dunking on "landlords" (not that all AirBnB hosts are landlords, some are just folks renting an extra room out), and sfgate happily obliging them.
- claudeganon 6y ago
  Airbnbs are, by definition, short term rentals that don’t follow the rules imposed on the hotel industry, so how are they not landlords? Apparently one third of their hosts own 25 or more units, which I imagine is quite a bit more than the average small-time landlord.
- mdszy 6y ago
  "some are just folks renting an extra room out" That's a landlord.
  - hoseja 6y ago
    Person of land, please.
  - setgree 6y ago
    I think I should have said "full-time" or "professional" landlord. I had thought that the word had a connotation of it being a full-time gig, but I was wrong.
- sct202 6y ago
  At least the tweet I saw on the article had thousands of likes. I've seen some articles where a person said something on Twitter and there's 12 likes and the writer is trying to make it sound like a trend.
- pp19dd 6y ago
spuz 6y ago
I really wonder how much pressure AirBnB must be feeling from hosts in order to go through with this idea. There's no way that they have done thinking it would not have some downsides. I really would like to know how they calculated that going through with this idea would be a better option than doing nothing.
- randomsearch 6y ago
  My thoughts too. But why does Airbnb care? Presumably the landlords will just come back or be replaced, and it’s not like they have shown concern for ethics in a long time.
  - spuz 6y ago
    Yeah exactly. Either they have been incredibly naive by thinking this would be seen as a purely positive gesture, or there is some business angle that we're not seeing.
  - dunham 6y ago
    > But why does Airbnb care? Maybe they’re taking a cut and their other revenue streams have dried up?
  - ducster696 6y ago
    My only thought would be if they collapse it could potentially be actual homeowners that would purchase the house instead of investors ending with less airbnb properties.
  - dwater 6y ago
    AirBNB are hoping for quick reopening and a "V-shaped recovery". They want things to get back to normal as quickly as possible, because the longer the current situation drags on for, the more their business and billions of invested money is at risk. They won't be able to do a quick reopening if 1/4 or 1/2 of the properties they list are being foreclosed on. That process can take multiple years for a property to be occupied again.
    - 6y ago
netsharc 6y ago
> In response to the backlash a spokesperson from Airbnb told SFGATE, “during this challenging time we heard from many Airbnb guests who were interested in supporting and reconnecting with past hosts. In the spirit of rekindling connections, we developed a new feature that allows guests to send virtual cards with messages of support and encouragement to hosts who provided excellent hospitality. If they wish, guests have the option to add a voluntary financial contribution.” I wish journalists would stop rehashing PR bullshit that don't answer the question. I look forward to an article that rephrases the above to something like: "In response to the backlash a spokesperson from Airbnb SFGATE offered a PR line which did not address the question.".
mattbee 6y ago
I'm a UK-based host & was mortified to hear they were going to ask guests for tips by default. I rushed to disable the checkbox before any guests got asked. Absolutely 100% what were they smoking.
xwdv 6y ago
If a landlord is too poor to run a proper AirBnB they should go out of business, not be donated to. Let them get bent, maybe I’ll buy up their foreclosed rental for cheap and rent it out to them.
lorsting 6y ago
The world as a whole is fucked up real good if a plea to donate is causing so much drama. Or is it that during these times only the crazy get promoted in front?
- bagacrap 6y ago
  There are a lot of worthwhile, needy causes, but a for profit business is not one of them. Especially considering the amount of collateral damage airbnb has caused in various markets. If property owners are forced to sell at a loss, so be it. There's a theme here with various industries, such as airlines (save LUV), where they choose to operate with zero piggy bank/ margin for error, and when shit hits the fan they're immediately bankrupt. Fiscal irresponsibility should not be rewarded with handouts, imo. It does rile me a bit to even hear the suggestion that it should.
ws66 6y ago
This to me looks like another form of privatizing profits, and socializing losses [1]. [1] https://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/privatizing-profits-and-socializing-losses.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/privatizing-profits-and...
danpalmer 6y ago
I wonder if AirBnB knows how delusional they are about their own product? They originally pitched it on a social message – stay with other people who enjoy travelling like you, sometimes you'll rent a room from someone, other times you'll rent out your room. Everyone cares about making this a great community. However this is far from what they've become – most rooms/properties are full-time AirBnB rooms, many managed by management companies trying to skim as much profit as they can, and rented out by professional short-term landlords who clearly don't care about the community. In the former product, I can imagine having a connection to some hosts, I can imagine emailing them to see if I could book a floating credit for some nights next year or tipping a fair bit more on a booking. But that's not AirBnB. I've not stayed in a single place like that. Surely AirBnB must know what their product actually is? Does that mean this communication is just gaslighting customers into thinking they're something different?
treebornfrog 6y ago
The second order effects are catastrophic too. Think of all the companies that built their entire business model around helping airbnb owners manage their bookings / rental For examples,hostmaker, which was heavily advertising in London (transport mainly) has gone bankrupt (1). They raised ~24M (2) (1) https://hostmaker.com/gb/london/ https://hostmaker.com/gb/london/ (2) https://angel.co/company/hostmaker/funding https://angel.co/company/hostmaker/funding
- chupy 6y ago
  Do you think we should also start donating to them?
  - treebornfrog 6y ago
    Not at all, just adding to the fact that 1) hosts were leveraged and are hurting. 2) entire companies are going bankrupt because their model is based mainly on airbnb demand.
gadders 6y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Chesky https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Chesky [AirBnB Co Founder] - Net Worth: $4.1billion Yeah, I'll chip in some extra after working all year for my two weeks in the sun. The fucking entitlement of Silicon Valley is unbelievable.
wil421 6y ago
> “during this challenging time we heard from many Airbnb guests who were interested in supporting and reconnecting with past hosts.” I call BS. No way they implemented this feature because people wanted to give money to past hosts.
cowllin 6y ago
One of the few here it seems who is actually an Airbnb host (a Superhost actually). For three years, I've managed my grandma's home in Wisconsin as a way to generate income for her and allow the house to stay in the family. It has been our vacation home for four generations and we certainly would have sold it by now if not for Airbnb income during the months of June, August, September each year. I am trying to earn enough to buy the home and then will continue Airbnb'ing (keeping July for family time) to pay much of the mortgage. Just an anecdote admittedly, but hopefully one demonstrating that not all hosts are evil landlords, and I would not be surprised if some of our (repeat) annual guests were interested in sending us a card/support because of the relationships we've worked to build and maintain with them.
- mattmanser 6y ago
  I can't really understand how you see yourself as 'good' in these circumstances? Look at it from another perspective. You've got a property sitting empty for most of the year, driving up property values, so you can have a holiday on e a year. You're making poor use of that property, and you want people to give you money, even though you could sell it? You need Zero help, you are not in a position of needing food, your children hungry, or being kicked out of your home. You create no, or at least negligible, employment for others. You essentially think people would want to give you money so you can go on holiday next July?
  - cowllin 6y ago
    Mostly fair points, but figured I'd clarify a bit. "You've got a property sitting empty for most of the year, driving up property values, so you can have a jolly holiday." My grandmother (the homeowner) lives there more than 6 months each year. She spends the rest of her time in a retirement community. It's a town with <500 people that swells 10x during summer months, there is very low demand besides vacation homes due to lack of nearby schools, healthcare, etc. We have two maintenance people and one cleaner from the local community that we partner with; it is extremely common to have these "old school" side gigs up there as it is such a vacation-driven community.
eanzenberg 6y ago
This is hilarious, and I’m sure will be as popular as paying extra taxes on your return when your state asks to donate because your heart feels it. I’m surprised airbnb is still around. Hotels have been as expensive or cheaper the past 3 years of booking. Why would anyone pay the same to have to deal with rando stranger creeps at odd hours for check-in is beyond me. Knowing there’s a front desk 24/7 is piece of mind.
- aembleton 6y ago
  So that you can have a kitchen.
svntid 6y ago
they indeed have lost their mind
mnm1 6y ago
The expansion of tipping culture has been here for awhile. This particular instance generated outrage, but usually people comply. First it was restaurants because in some states waiters don't even make minimum wage. Then it became almost all restaurants, regardless of whether the employees legally make minimum wage before tips or not. Now it's ride sharing. And food trucks. Anywhere they have Square. As if handing the food through the food truck window is somehow worthy of a tip. Ice cream shops. Food delivery. In addition to exorbitant fees and overpriced items, a tip is still required or the driver is likely not even making money. I can accept this during the pandemic since the driver is risking their life, but outside, every single one of these cases is preposterous. The underlying issue is that companies are allowed to not pay employees enough and often are allowed to classify employees as contractors. Unless you're easily paying your health insurance out of pocket (premiums, deductible, and out of pocket max), there's no way one should be classified as a contractor. It's absurd to think people making whatever uber offers have control over their lives and their work. It's tiring that these multi-billion dollar companies as refusing to pay living wages and externalizing their pay onto their customers. Unfortunately, the only recourse is to not tip and this, like so many things, hurts the workers more than their companies. But what else to do? In a society where learned helplessness is the norm and that has no practical way of addressing one's concerns, boycotting remains the only viable action. What am I going to do? Sue? Write my representative? Please. Let's not be delusional. Hopefully if employees suffer enough, they might unionize, and claw back power for themselves. Or these business will go out of business. It's sad, but that's what it seems to take.
sdinsn 6y ago
If landlords need money, they can always sell their properties. Lowering the cost of living would be the best thing for the average person.
mesozoic 6y ago
I bet they were going to take a cut to keep themselves alive.
chenpengcheng 6y ago
is this thread locked?
thunkshift1 6y ago
They tried to follow in foot steps of uber eats which asked consumers to donate to restaurants earlier during the lockdown. Airbnb doing the same is definitely not okay, but why there wasnt a similar hue and cry for uber doing it.

255 points by koolba 6y ago

Wouldn't it be a better idea to have some CTA for like future booking or booking voucher so the hosts can get money now for a future service? So you know if someone really likes a place and visits it every year can spare a few bucks if they can to freeze it

julianlam 6y ago
Honest question, how is this different from just booking in advance?
- Jetroid 6y ago
  Presumably because with the current Pandemic, a lot of people don't know when they will travel next, so can't really pick a date to book. The intent here seems to be to ensure that your favourite family-owned chalet can weather the pandemic without you necessariliy going there any time soon.
- PeterisP 6y ago
  Booking in advance requires knowing the dates of travel beforehand, the proposal above does not.

codecamper 6y ago

I guess AirBNB founders got tired of being interrupted during sushi.

mathattack 6y ago

This seems counter-productive. Housing costs are up because of AirBnB. I’m not thrilled, but that’s the market. The market needs to reprice. Folks who bet on the market would get rich if the bet paid off. Let them sell their places, and someone else can rent them out in the future. Call me callous but I don’t feel the need to bail out someone who charged me $500/night on a place with a $3000 monthly payment. I entered the transaction freely, and the transaction is over.

davidf18 6y ago
Actually housing costs are up not because of AirBnb but poor regulation of AirBnb's. Hosts in NYC, where I live, are required to live on premises while their spare room(s) are rented out. They are not allowed to buy other properties. That should be a universal regulation in all cities that AirBnb operates and that would help to fix the higher housing costs from AirBnb.
mchusma 6y ago
Housing costs are not up because of Airbnb, they are up because of government regulation. If we wanted housing to cost to buy a house in the US to be $100k average, we could do it almost overnight by lifting regulations unrelated to safety. With existing automation tech (produce like industry instead of custom each time) we could get it to $50k. In 10 years we could make housing affordable if we had the societal will. I think you can make many arguments that being more expensive is worth it (more free parking is an example of what is included in the price of a home today), but there is no technical reason homes cannot be very inexpensive. You can also argue it's a "feature not a bug" from existing homeowners, who work to reduce supply (zoning, NIMBY, etc).
- nicoburns 6y ago
  > Housing costs are not up because of Airbnb I think they are partially. In London, rents have decreased 25%-50% since COVID. Part of that will be reduced demand. But I have also seen a lot of rooms advertised for long-term rental that were previously Airbnbs. We could certainly ameliorate this by building more houses. But here in the UK we're a lot more limited by available land space than you are in the US. And while there is limited supply it makes sense to prioritise making primary dwellings affordable over profit making for landlords.
  - DINKDINK 6y ago
    >> Housing costs are not up because of Airbnb >I think they are partially. You're mistaking housing costs with prices. Housing costs are the input prices of components that entrepreneurs accept or reject to produce housing. Such as: * price materials producers demand for their products (concrete, wood, electrical wire etc) * the labor prices, labor sellers demand (Carpenters, iron workers, etc) * the prices land owners demand to either keep land undeveloped or developed * the prices state agents demand to abstain from interfering with home building. Consumption can't drive up a producer's input costs. Consumers may abstain from purchasing from a producer unless the producer meets different inputs ("I demand you only buy the labor of architects who live near me and not people far away").

cwhiz 6y ago

This is outrage porn, not news. Absolutely pointless article that has nothing to do with technology, at all.

pavel_lishin 6y ago

> Airbnb has lost its fucking head. Why would I donate to my host? I can't even afford one house. Well, at least it sounds like many of those hosts can't, either.

kozhevnikov 6y ago
Other articles of this topic mentioned this titbit: > The financial situation is especially dire for megahosts, some of whom bought up dozens of properties and built short-term-rental empires that made up their main source of income (about one-third of Airbnb hosts have more than 25 properties, according to the analytics site AirDNA). https://www.businessinsider.com/airbnb-asking-renters-to-donate-kindness-cards-backlash-2020-7 https://www.businessinsider.com/airbnb-asking-renters-to-don...
- malechimp 6y ago
  It's called investing. Investing is another name for risking. Those people risked. Atm they are losing. In future they might gain. Heck, for years before that they were gaining big time. Unless they have a very strong lobby (such as bankers, etc) they cannot make anyone else pay for their loss. And that's how it's supposed to be.
- sleavey 6y ago
  The attitude of many people towards property is incredible. People expect house prices to rise and rise and somehow think they've been wronged by society/government policy/acts of god if the bubble bursts and they lose money. I've been called out by many ordinarily level headed people for saying that owning property is a risky investment.
  - Nasrudith 6y ago
    It isn't just property but also jobs and industries. Look at the vastly disproportionate amount of tears for coal miners. That feeling seems to apply to any way to make a living that they react hostility to being told is risky. Because everything is an investment and everything is a risk including not taking one. I suspect it has to do with Calvinism essentially and the religious fixation of work as righteous and a guarantee such that anything going wrong is "bad things happening to good people" and a fundamental sign that things Aren't Right and Someone is to blame.

treebornfrog 6y ago

I suspect that a lot of people jumped on the airbnb hype train and thought they could be a landlord of multiple properties and probably got leveraged. Now they're in trouble as their income dries up.

paulcole 6y ago
Interesting theory. How’d you come to that conclusion?
- fennecfoxen 6y ago
  Perhaps poster has read news coverage. https://www.wsj.com/articles/a-bargain-with-the-devilbill-comes-due-for-overextended-airbnb-hosts-11588083336 https://www.wsj.com/articles/a-bargain-with-the-devilbill-co...
  - paulcole 6y ago
    I thought it might’ve been this quote from the original article: > Airbnb has created a mechanism in which you can....donate money to landlords....many of whom have overextended themselves by leveraging multiple properties It’s a big leap to make but I can see how that would influence their theory.
tirpen 6y ago
> Now they're in trouble as their income dries up. Good.
- treebornfrog 6y ago
  Darwinism at it's finest.
- throwaway98797 6y ago
  Serves them right for taking a risk.

jamesholden 6y ago

ha.. haha.. haaaahahahahahahahahah No but seriously, Airbnb what were you thinking.

claudeganon 6y ago

I wonder how much of Airbnb is a retread of 2008, where you have people massively over-leveraged on rental properties that they could never afford without constant, growing bookings.

freeAgent 6y ago

It’s amazing to me that Airbnb tells people that it’s up to them to determine if their contributions are tax deductible. Why would they even write this? Hosts on Airbnb are for-profit enterprises. I’ve never heard or a registered non-profit running Airbnb rentals. What are they thinking?

evancox100 6y ago
I was baffled by this too. Maybe in the initial testing people saw this and this question came up? Probably very few people overall know how this stuff works.
- ma2rten 6y ago
  Or maybe their lawyers told them to write that it's not tax deductible and then a marketing person wrote this.

Raed667 6y ago

I got prompted to donate to a host I stayed with for a few days and only saw once many-many months ago. Heck NO! What is their reasoning here!? I have zero emotional connection with that person. Nor do I think they are entitled to my charity.

ponyous 6y ago
So don't donate? I've been in AirBnB hosts where the landlady would make deserts for us and all kinds of stuff, just because she was nice and bored. We enjoyed it very much and I would tip her via AirBnb - she didn't want cash, except once - pre-agreed for multi course meal where she fed a group of 4, and it was pretty much just for the resources. There was a guy in SF that took me around shown me the city, etc... I enjoyed this too and would tip him. I have more examples of that.
- CaptainZapp 6y ago
  Then why don't just leave them 50$ in cash if you really want to tip them?
  - reustle 6y ago
    Because this is months/years after the fact and you likely don't live anywhere close to the host.
- mateus1 6y ago
  Why would you donate money to people who are houseowners and up until few months ago were racking in profits by renting? This is not even charity, it's just pointless.
  - zenexer 6y ago
    There are hosts who aren’t abusing AirBnB—they’re just uncommon. When you do get one, you know it. I can see why people would want to tip in those cases, especially if you’re paying significantly less than a nearby hotel for much greater value, and often a personalized experience. But it’s rare. That doesn’t change the fact that AirBnB has a big problem, and what they’re doing here is tone-deaf. Yeah, tips might make sense sometimes, but fix the problem before you start soliciting tips.

malechimp 6y ago

Being a regular customer in a very hot market (Dublin) I can attest that most of the places I've been to were grossly overpriced and let's not speak about the quality. Back in the fat cows era (up until a few months ago) it seemed that Airbnb was synonymous to "if you have a spare doghouse in a hot overpriced market then you can make very good money out of it". Not to mention how airbnb was contributing to such markets to get even more overpriced by causing shortages. And now they are urging customers to sponsor hosts... Yup. Definitely someone there must have lost it entirely.

Raed667 6y ago
They must be so disconnected that they feel their hosts and guests are actually having a meaningful connection. Most of my Airbnb interactions don't go beyond the exchange of keys (or not even that with the key boxes). I have no sympathy for landlords or Airbnb, they are just going to have to deal with the market like everyone else.
- Mediterraneo10 6y ago
  Not only does one actually meet one's host much rarely these days compared to AirBnB's early years, but the cases where one indeed interacts with the host are often pretty tiresome, think lonely elderly people who just keep talking after you have tried to make it clear that you are tired and want to be alone. Sadly, this doesn't get mentioned much in reviews for fear of upsetting the host or the forced-positivity corporation that is AirBnB, so it is very hard to avoid these awkward encounters completely.
- rrrazdan 6y ago
  I know your comment is for the majority but I have had meaningful connections with my hosts. Some I am still in touch years later. If the host reached out to me on their own, I would probably help them. But to have Airbnb guilt trip people into donating is beyond me as well.
  - malechimp 6y ago
    I think we are mistaking Airbnb for couchsurf. Even in the cases when I met my hosts the transaction was 100% monetary one. Not one of them, ever, offered me to stay some more free of charge - just because we got along well. And I did get along well with all of them. On the contrary, I have slept on the floor at a friends house a few nights because some of these hosts hanged me at the last moment (e.g. when they realized that my flight was coming in too late for them). Don't take me wrong. I'm not venting here. It took me a while to realize it myself, that Airbnb is not couchsurfing. It is a market. And a hard one at that. That's fine by me but donations are not part of such markets.

throwaway0a5e 6y ago

You know who's still paying their rent on time? The government. The section 8 landlords are enjoying some serious schadenfreude right now because even though they only cash small checks once a month they're the only ones still cashing checks at all. Short term rentals have an effective monthly rent far in excess of the normal monthly rent for equivalent accommodations. With this payoff comes risk. The money source can dry up on you much faster. I have no more sympathy for people who went all in on AirBNB than I do for people who went all in on day trading.

yardie 6y ago
This has been kept secret for years. Landlords that know what they are doing go after those section 8 contracts. Most people wouldn't be able to recognize a section 8 renter if they were standing right in front of them. My old apartment, complete with modern amenities, had section 8 renters. It was targeted towards young professionals. But new construction made it 100% ADA-compliant. Which is perfect for wheelchair bound social security-disability check receivers. According to the property manager, "no problem with section, unlike you, they always pay rent on time!"
- wow_no 6y ago
  This this this. Most Section 8 renters are elderly or disabled, nothing like the stereotypes. Section 8 is a fantastic program that deserves more credit for avoiding the issues that plague the Projects.

sleavey 6y ago

This was really short sighted given Airbnb have claimed since the beginning to regulators, local authorities and the public that they exist only to provide a platform for people to rent out their spare rooms when it's convenient for them. Their core claim is that they are not a hotel company, which is how they manage to skirt so many hotel regulations. Built into these claims is the assumption that the owners of the properties offered on the platform can afford to keep them without renting then out full time, since it's supposed to be their primary home. In reality, Airbnb is a glorified hotel room broker but with added facilitation of discrimination, normalisation of the charging of extra fees such as for "cleaning" (how have hotels managed to get by since time immemorial without charging one!?), rating obfuscation and a huge negative impact on local rental prices with landlords assembling empires of dozens of Airbnb properties. The fact Airbnb were so tone deaf to all this, asking the public to offset the losses made by landlords in times like these is really incredible.

jliptzin 6y ago
Not disagreeing with you except about the cleaning fee. Hotels usually clean every room every day and have an on-site cleaning staff. The marginal cost to clean one room is pretty low, and it happens every day while you’re there, so it’s baked into the price. On Airbnb, typically your place is cleaned once after you leave whether you stayed one night or two weeks, and it’s more expensive than just cleaning a hotel room, so it’s a separate charge, as it should be.
- claudeganon 6y ago
  ...which is baked into their room rates? It’s predatory to advertise a lower rate and then inflate it after the fact with all kinds of tacked on fees. People (rightfully) go nuts at hotels that try to do this.
  - jliptzin 6y ago
    What is being inflated after the fact? When you book on Airbnb it shows you all the fees including cleaning fee before you book...

setgree 6y ago

I would prefer a world in which we didn't call some people griping on twitter "news". Two popular HN pieces have recently touched on how journalists and newspapers give twitter too much weight: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23833267 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23833267 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23827073 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23827073 All I'm seeing in this article is a few people trying to get that dopamine rush of engagement by dunking on "landlords" (not that all AirBnB hosts are landlords, some are just folks renting an extra room out), and sfgate happily obliging them.

claudeganon 6y ago
Airbnbs are, by definition, short term rentals that don’t follow the rules imposed on the hotel industry, so how are they not landlords? Apparently one third of their hosts own 25 or more units, which I imagine is quite a bit more than the average small-time landlord.
mdszy 6y ago
"some are just folks renting an extra room out" That's a landlord.
- hoseja 6y ago
  Person of land, please.
- setgree 6y ago
  I think I should have said "full-time" or "professional" landlord. I had thought that the word had a connotation of it being a full-time gig, but I was wrong.
sct202 6y ago
At least the tweet I saw on the article had thousands of likes. I've seen some articles where a person said something on Twitter and there's 12 likes and the writer is trying to make it sound like a trend.
pp19dd 6y ago

spuz 6y ago

I really wonder how much pressure AirBnB must be feeling from hosts in order to go through with this idea. There's no way that they have done thinking it would not have some downsides. I really would like to know how they calculated that going through with this idea would be a better option than doing nothing.

randomsearch 6y ago
My thoughts too. But why does Airbnb care? Presumably the landlords will just come back or be replaced, and it’s not like they have shown concern for ethics in a long time.
- spuz 6y ago
  Yeah exactly. Either they have been incredibly naive by thinking this would be seen as a purely positive gesture, or there is some business angle that we're not seeing.
- dunham 6y ago
  > But why does Airbnb care? Maybe they’re taking a cut and their other revenue streams have dried up?
- ducster696 6y ago
  My only thought would be if they collapse it could potentially be actual homeowners that would purchase the house instead of investors ending with less airbnb properties.
- dwater 6y ago
  AirBNB are hoping for quick reopening and a "V-shaped recovery". They want things to get back to normal as quickly as possible, because the longer the current situation drags on for, the more their business and billions of invested money is at risk. They won't be able to do a quick reopening if 1/4 or 1/2 of the properties they list are being foreclosed on. That process can take multiple years for a property to be occupied again.
  - 6y ago

netsharc 6y ago

> In response to the backlash a spokesperson from Airbnb told SFGATE, “during this challenging time we heard from many Airbnb guests who were interested in supporting and reconnecting with past hosts. In the spirit of rekindling connections, we developed a new feature that allows guests to send virtual cards with messages of support and encouragement to hosts who provided excellent hospitality. If they wish, guests have the option to add a voluntary financial contribution.” I wish journalists would stop rehashing PR bullshit that don't answer the question. I look forward to an article that rephrases the above to something like: "In response to the backlash a spokesperson from Airbnb SFGATE offered a PR line which did not address the question.".

mattbee 6y ago

I'm a UK-based host & was mortified to hear they were going to ask guests for tips by default. I rushed to disable the checkbox before any guests got asked. Absolutely 100% what were they smoking.

xwdv 6y ago

If a landlord is too poor to run a proper AirBnB they should go out of business, not be donated to. Let them get bent, maybe I’ll buy up their foreclosed rental for cheap and rent it out to them.

lorsting 6y ago

The world as a whole is fucked up real good if a plea to donate is causing so much drama. Or is it that during these times only the crazy get promoted in front?

bagacrap 6y ago
There are a lot of worthwhile, needy causes, but a for profit business is not one of them. Especially considering the amount of collateral damage airbnb has caused in various markets. If property owners are forced to sell at a loss, so be it. There's a theme here with various industries, such as airlines (save LUV), where they choose to operate with zero piggy bank/ margin for error, and when shit hits the fan they're immediately bankrupt. Fiscal irresponsibility should not be rewarded with handouts, imo. It does rile me a bit to even hear the suggestion that it should.

ws66 6y ago

This to me looks like another form of privatizing profits, and socializing losses [1]. [1] https://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/privatizing-profits-and-socializing-losses.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/privatizing-profits-and...

danpalmer 6y ago

I wonder if AirBnB knows how delusional they are about their own product? They originally pitched it on a social message – stay with other people who enjoy travelling like you, sometimes you'll rent a room from someone, other times you'll rent out your room. Everyone cares about making this a great community. However this is far from what they've become – most rooms/properties are full-time AirBnB rooms, many managed by management companies trying to skim as much profit as they can, and rented out by professional short-term landlords who clearly don't care about the community. In the former product, I can imagine having a connection to some hosts, I can imagine emailing them to see if I could book a floating credit for some nights next year or tipping a fair bit more on a booking. But that's not AirBnB. I've not stayed in a single place like that. Surely AirBnB must know what their product actually is? Does that mean this communication is just gaslighting customers into thinking they're something different?

treebornfrog 6y ago

The second order effects are catastrophic too. Think of all the companies that built their entire business model around helping airbnb owners manage their bookings / rental For examples,hostmaker, which was heavily advertising in London (transport mainly) has gone bankrupt (1). They raised ~24M (2) (1) https://hostmaker.com/gb/london/ https://hostmaker.com/gb/london/ (2) https://angel.co/company/hostmaker/funding https://angel.co/company/hostmaker/funding

chupy 6y ago
Do you think we should also start donating to them?
- treebornfrog 6y ago
  Not at all, just adding to the fact that 1) hosts were leveraged and are hurting. 2) entire companies are going bankrupt because their model is based mainly on airbnb demand.

gadders 6y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Chesky https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Chesky [AirBnB Co Founder] - Net Worth: $4.1billion Yeah, I'll chip in some extra after working all year for my two weeks in the sun. The fucking entitlement of Silicon Valley is unbelievable.

wil421 6y ago

> “during this challenging time we heard from many Airbnb guests who were interested in supporting and reconnecting with past hosts.” I call BS. No way they implemented this feature because people wanted to give money to past hosts.

cowllin 6y ago

One of the few here it seems who is actually an Airbnb host (a Superhost actually). For three years, I've managed my grandma's home in Wisconsin as a way to generate income for her and allow the house to stay in the family. It has been our vacation home for four generations and we certainly would have sold it by now if not for Airbnb income during the months of June, August, September each year. I am trying to earn enough to buy the home and then will continue Airbnb'ing (keeping July for family time) to pay much of the mortgage. Just an anecdote admittedly, but hopefully one demonstrating that not all hosts are evil landlords, and I would not be surprised if some of our (repeat) annual guests were interested in sending us a card/support because of the relationships we've worked to build and maintain with them.

mattmanser 6y ago
I can't really understand how you see yourself as 'good' in these circumstances? Look at it from another perspective. You've got a property sitting empty for most of the year, driving up property values, so you can have a holiday on e a year. You're making poor use of that property, and you want people to give you money, even though you could sell it? You need Zero help, you are not in a position of needing food, your children hungry, or being kicked out of your home. You create no, or at least negligible, employment for others. You essentially think people would want to give you money so you can go on holiday next July?
- cowllin 6y ago
  Mostly fair points, but figured I'd clarify a bit. "You've got a property sitting empty for most of the year, driving up property values, so you can have a jolly holiday." My grandmother (the homeowner) lives there more than 6 months each year. She spends the rest of her time in a retirement community. It's a town with <500 people that swells 10x during summer months, there is very low demand besides vacation homes due to lack of nearby schools, healthcare, etc. We have two maintenance people and one cleaner from the local community that we partner with; it is extremely common to have these "old school" side gigs up there as it is such a vacation-driven community.

eanzenberg 6y ago

This is hilarious, and I’m sure will be as popular as paying extra taxes on your return when your state asks to donate because your heart feels it. I’m surprised airbnb is still around. Hotels have been as expensive or cheaper the past 3 years of booking. Why would anyone pay the same to have to deal with rando stranger creeps at odd hours for check-in is beyond me. Knowing there’s a front desk 24/7 is piece of mind.

aembleton 6y ago
So that you can have a kitchen.

svntid 6y ago

they indeed have lost their mind

mnm1 6y ago

The expansion of tipping culture has been here for awhile. This particular instance generated outrage, but usually people comply. First it was restaurants because in some states waiters don't even make minimum wage. Then it became almost all restaurants, regardless of whether the employees legally make minimum wage before tips or not. Now it's ride sharing. And food trucks. Anywhere they have Square. As if handing the food through the food truck window is somehow worthy of a tip. Ice cream shops. Food delivery. In addition to exorbitant fees and overpriced items, a tip is still required or the driver is likely not even making money. I can accept this during the pandemic since the driver is risking their life, but outside, every single one of these cases is preposterous. The underlying issue is that companies are allowed to not pay employees enough and often are allowed to classify employees as contractors. Unless you're easily paying your health insurance out of pocket (premiums, deductible, and out of pocket max), there's no way one should be classified as a contractor. It's absurd to think people making whatever uber offers have control over their lives and their work. It's tiring that these multi-billion dollar companies as refusing to pay living wages and externalizing their pay onto their customers. Unfortunately, the only recourse is to not tip and this, like so many things, hurts the workers more than their companies. But what else to do? In a society where learned helplessness is the norm and that has no practical way of addressing one's concerns, boycotting remains the only viable action. What am I going to do? Sue? Write my representative? Please. Let's not be delusional. Hopefully if employees suffer enough, they might unionize, and claw back power for themselves. Or these business will go out of business. It's sad, but that's what it seems to take.

sdinsn 6y ago

If landlords need money, they can always sell their properties. Lowering the cost of living would be the best thing for the average person.

mesozoic 6y ago

I bet they were going to take a cut to keep themselves alive.

chenpengcheng 6y ago

is this thread locked?

thunkshift1 6y ago

They tried to follow in foot steps of uber eats which asked consumers to donate to restaurants earlier during the lockdown. Airbnb doing the same is definitely not okay, but why there wasnt a similar hue and cry for uber doing it.