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U.S. backs down in fight with Harvard, MIT over student visas
- psds2 6y agoIs the guy who decides visa policy not able to understand the plan coming from the guy who decides defense policy? We need the smart people here, not there.
- jorblumesea 6y agoJust Trump playing to his base and international students were the unfortunate pawns. Doesn't take a political expert to see that Trump's mishandling of the COVID crisis has put him in dire political straits. He needs to manufacture wins, or look like he's winning in order to stand some chance of reelection. This isn't the first or last time he's implemented some obvious unconstitutional policy only to withdraw it because he already got the soundbyte he was looking for (remember the travel country ban?). He ran on a populist nativist platform and has gotten very little accomplished so he's going to try everything he can in order to look like he's "really trying but those libruls are the problem". You know, despite the issue being is fundamental lack of understanding of the constitution and the presidency.
- throwawaygh 6y agoI'm not relieved. Or, only partially relieved. One of the core arguments was that the Feds can't pull funds for their stated purpose, which was to encourage/force schools to open ("The government has provided no reason for its abrupt and unexplained shift. That is unsurprising, since... its purpose—as expressed by Acting Deputy Secretary of Homeland Security Ken Cuccinelli—is to 'encourage schools to reopen.' In essence, Defendants are using the vulnerability of international students as leverage to force a broad reopening for reasons wholly disconnected from the underlying statute and regulation... Defendants have thus violated the APA by promulgating a policy based on factors which Congress has not intended it to consider."). I think there's a good chance that the admin backed down here so that there's no pre-existing precedent implying (or explicitly stating) that they can't use purse strings and other extra-congressional-intent mechanisms to force K12 to open in August.
- pnw_hazor 6y agoI think they backed down because the language of the emergency rule lifting the in-person course requirement said it would remain “in effect for the duration of the emergency.” The Covid-19 National Emergency Declaration is still in force. I wouldn't be surprised if the Trump admin is working on an Executive Order. It would get around a lot of the arguments Harvard/MIT were making related to improper administrative rule-making by ICE.
- WalterBright 6y agoThe federal government did use the threat of withdrawal of highway funds to get all 50 states to lower the speed limit to 55.
- tropdrop 6y agoPlease cite what you're referencing next time - it was not clear from your comment on a current event if this is something that also happened recently, or in the last century. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Maximum_Speed_Law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Maximum_Speed_Law
- throwawaygh 6y agoCONGRESS used the threat of withdrawal of highway funds to get all 50 states to lower the speed limit to 55. From my quote of the amicus brief: Defendants have thus violated the APA by promulgating a policy based on factors WHICH CONGRESSS DID NOT INTEND IT TO CONSIDER ( the all-caps is for emphasis because I can't see italics well anymore and HN doesn't have bold; I'm not yelling :) )
- jacquesm 6y agoBut the rest of HN can see italics just fine. Don't use caps. It is annoying.
- cortesoft 6y agoFor something like this, it really matters which part of the federal government takes the action. The important part is maintaining separation of powers... making sure the Executive branch doesn't overstep its authority into the legislative branch territory.
- rdiddly 6y agoShow of hands, who looks around today at the biggest challenges and problems we face, the ones that affect the greatest numbers of people the most perniciously, and that need swift & decisive solutions at almost any cost, and concludes that they're the ones having to do with foreign students being in the country taking online classes?
- TheOtherHobbes 6y agoNarcissistic populist racists. "It's not me, it's you."
- rdiddly 6y agoIt's too bad populist has become a dirty word, because in theory it sounds great - i.e. democracy.
- frequentnapper 6y agodemagoguery is just beyond the fine line...
- jessaustin 6y agoWhen right-thinking people despise populism, who will be left as populists? I'm more worried about a Congress that unanimously passes trillions in handouts to rich people during a health emergency (and the feckless orange moron who didn't veto such public theft) than I am about "demagogues".
- shrimpx 6y agoTo extreme anti-populists, democracy is synonymous with mob rule.
- threeseed 6y agoa) The government can do more than one thing at a time. b) Given that so many startups were founded by immigrants who studied here I would consider it a pretty important issue to address.
- vmh1928 6y agoForeign students are big money for the Industrial Education Complex and the loss of that revenue presented a real threat. Since the alumni of the IEC, no matter what political party, run, well, everything, the idea had no chance. At best it was political theater to agitate the base.
- qserasera 6y agoI'm honestly displeased with this ending. Universities that want to commit 100% learning online should not charge full price. Universities that are 100% online before Covid should not be able to grant visas as they have no campus. There is a LOT unregulated, unlegislated here and a lot that needs to be organized now. Many organizations will continue to set unacceptable standards for education and in my opinion need to be reigned in. MIT, Harvard's global relationship, albeit special by influence and money, should have to follow what the government sets. Government should have edified that universities without campuses cannot grant visas as well as a variety of other things. In short this is a missed opportunity and a waste of time, much like many/all plans of this administration.
- laGrenouille 6y agoI do not disagree with your opinions about tuition or universities that were 100% online prior to the pandemic, but the original rule and subsequent retraction little to do with either point. None of these rules (directly) concern tuition money and it would be nearly impossible at the moment for a foreign student to work through the U.S. visa program to study at remote schools that do not have a history of issuing student visas. By the far the largest group of students effected by the policy are foreign nationals that did not return to their home countries in the spring and would be subject to immediate deportation in the fall depending on their school's form of instruction. This was a purely vindictive and xenophobic move by the administration. I was extremely happy to hear of this policy reversal. It (at least temporarily) removes some pointless stress on millions of students who already have more things to worry about than they should.
- qwerty456127 6y agoAm I the only one thinking fighting to rid the country of the students resourceful enough to study in Harvard and MIT is madness? I would rather give them citizenship without even waiting for them to graduate.
- totalZero 6y agoFor the sake of circumspection, I suppose a counterpoint to your thinking might go like this...... These institutions receive an abundance of high-quality applications every year and choose only a few; for every admitted international student, several amazing domestic applicants are rejected. The government does not need to bend over backwards for the international students who won the admissions lottery, because they already have a huge advantage. Rather, it might prefer to fight for the interests of its own citizens, whose advancement is in their personal best interest as well as that of the nation. If an international student follows the established legal processes whereby a foreign person can become an American citizen, he, too, can benefit from a system that protects the interest of American citizens.
- qwerty456127 6y agoJust fix the system the way more students can be admitted and graduate. As many as possible (while maintaining the quality). This can be especially easy now as the universities target to become 100% online and the number of students whom you can let attend a lecture is virtually unlimited.
- TheCoelacanth 6y agoThe counterpoint to that is that international students are a cash cow for universities. They aren't taking away seats from domestic students. They are subsidizing the ability for more domestic students to study there.
- totalZero 6y agoOnly a small fraction of MIT's revenue comes from tuition. https://web.mit.edu/facts/financial.html https://web.mit.edu/facts/financial.html
- tibbydudeza 6y agoKind of strange that the Trump administration would pull back on this one considering they locked up kids of illegal immigrants in cages ... there must be lots of GOP Harvard alumni then.
- biolurker1 6y agoIt's not "US" it's Trump backs down from a rage comment he thought on the spot. That's how crazy the world has become.
- Fjolsvith 6y agoThe school closures are going to hurt universities far more than most know: Sports activity revenue.
- ebg13 6y ago> They cited time zone differences, unreliable or state-managed Internet and armed conflict in some of the students’ homelands. I think it would be enlightening to see transcripts of the moments where each side said something convincing to the other. Like...did Harvard representatives walk in and say "You know that this shit matters, right?" and then did the US representatives say "Oh shit. You're right. We never even thought of that." ? Or was there more to it? There has to be more to it than that, right? "Struck a deal" implies that both sides gave something. So what did both sides give? Or did the US just walk back a move made without any foresight whatsoever when someone asked if they'd thought about the consequences?
- ergocoder 6y agoIt probably something like " these foreign students bring billions of dollars to US". We'd really like to keep these customers.
- nine_zeros 6y agoThe ideal me hopes it was because someone at ICE had a humane heart. Someone who read through the outrage and uproar, internalized the problem and convinced everyone that they needed to rescind this. But given their actions over the past 4 years and the general cruelty of Trump administration, I'm leaning towards "a deal" or rather someone in Trump admin realizing its hurting their voter base.
- SpicyLemonZest 6y agoIt's pretty plausible IMO that someone in the administration just told SEVP "hey, colleges are gonna reopen in the fall" and they didn't check to see if it was true.
- rosstex 6y agocare to elucidate? Edit: the parent originally said "Your tax dollars hard at work."
- frequentnapper 6y agocare to elucidate? Edit: the parent originally said "Your tax dollars hard at work."
- jxm262 6y agoThis article doesn't seem to go into much detail. Does anyone know if this applies to all colleges or just Harvard? I'm digging around online now but my search skills are failing me
- christofdev 6y agohttps://www.ice.gov/doclib/sevis/pdf/bcm2007-01.pdf https://www.ice.gov/doclib/sevis/pdf/bcm2007-01.pdf
- HenryKissinger 6y agoAll colleges. Harvard was only among the first to challenge it.
- jxm262 6y agoawesome, thanks for the info :)
- atonse 6y agoExcellent. The system worked this time. People challenged executive branch action through the judicial system and the executive branch backed down. But this should never have been an issue to begin with, think of all the unnecessary stress and anxiety this has caused for the hundreds of thousands of international students impacted by this.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- nine_zeros 6y ago> But this should never have been an issue to begin with, think of all the unnecessary stress and anxiety this has caused for the hundreds of thousands of international students impacted by this. More importantly, the long term damage is done. The noise was heard loud and clear that America is only as competent as its leader. Prospective future students are likely going to be ultra careful before choosing this country.
- DoofusOfDeath 6y ago> The noise was heard loud and clear that America is only as competent as its leader. Honest question because I'm not a student of world politics: what countries have had consistently better governance over the last 20 years? Every time some possibility comes to mind, I quickly recall a reason to cross it off the list.
- jessaustin 6y agoOff the top of my head, I think of nations who have dealt effectively with the current health challenge: New Zealand, South Korea, Germany, etc.
- burfog 6y agoSouth Korea's leader was following orders from a cult leader. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_South_Korean_political_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_South_Korean_political_sc... Germany has a huge self-inflicted migrant crisis. New Zealand seems to be heading down that path.
- ardit33 6y agoIs this administration very incompetent, or very sadistic? If they rescinded the order, means they: 1) Didn't think through the consequences, or the legality of the order. 2) They just wanted to crate some chaos, and mess up with the foreign kids, while posturing to their base 3) Force universities to stay open in the middle of the pandemic in order to help Trump's reelection bid... (not sure how breakouts of covid infections at colleges will help him)
- pnw_hazor 6y agoMostly 3. (or more charitably they hoped the covid emergency would be winding down by now) Here, ICE attempted to rollback the current emergency rule and put in place a new rule that was broader and more flexible than the pre-covid-19 rule. They have pulled that back now. But, as soon as the Covid-19 national emergency order expires, the current emergency rule can be easily reverted to the stricter pre-covid-19 rule if that's what the Admin wants. Otherwise, a new rule (following administrative law rule-making requirements) can be made to implement the broader/flexible policy ICE was seeking here. edit-to-add: Trump could probably issue an Executive Order directing ICE to change its rules.
- farnsworth 6y ago2 is the answer. They probably hardly cared whether the rule was successfully implemented. They succeeded in spreading FUD and in the future, prospective international students will think twice before deciding to study in the US. The damage is done.
- kyleee 6y agoMore likely, some will think twice and most will still come
- sitkack 6y agoLots of top tier universities are already opening foreign campuses. Future students will just end up there. This move accelerated the rise of foreign top tier mind work at the expense of that work in the USA. Couple this with the antagonistic stance by the administration to foreign highly capable workers and you have a recipe for a tech softening in the USA. This is good for the world. Part of me sees this as a cynical ploy to tear down others' futures to support the base. I do think the US needs massive education reform, costs are through the roof and large universities are farming foreign students but this isn't the way to do it.
- maddyboo 6y agoCan someone explain how foreign students taking online classes gives them ‘full rein’ and is a threat to national security? > ICE also contends that a full slate of virtual coursework compromises national security by giving foreign students free rein within the U.S., and says a freeze would undermine “the deference afforded administrative agencies in complex and interrelated fields like immigration enforcement.”
- alexmingoia 6y agoIt's not a threat to national security. Unfortunately Congress has given the President the power to do pretty much whatever he wants for whatever reason with regard to immigration enforcement. The Immigration and Nationality Act gives the president authority to do whatever he wants: > "Whenever the president finds that the entry of any aliens or of any class of aliens into the United States would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, he may by proclamation, and for such period as he shall deem necessary, suspend the entry of all aliens or any class of aliens as immigrants or nonimmigrants..."
- SpicyLemonZest 6y agoNo, and I doubt ICE can either. It's normal in this stage of a lawsuit to just throw out every argument you can brainstorm regardless of whether it makes much sense.
- balls187 6y agoICE stated they would have "free rein" not "full rein." The argument is essentially that by allowing students to take online classes, they are free to travel anywhere within the united states. With mandatory in person classes, they would be restricted to being near campus. The federal government would have a harder time keeping track of students, as their schools would no longer really have an idea if the students are nearby or not. Which as others have pointed out, really grasping at straws, and if there is a a legitimate concern here, I'm certain that schools could come up with a system to keep tabs on their students visa holders.
- dmode 6y ago
- supernova87a 6y agoAnother example of the haphazard throw-it-against-the-wall approach of what our country has chosen to have as our national experiment. This cannot be good for either side. Do we want to live in a system where if you hadn't been paying attention to the news for 1 week, we might have kicked >100,000 people out of the country? Is this ADD-style, whoever yells the loudest, social and political system working well for anyone? How do we get past this?
- nine_zeros 6y ago> Is this ADD-style, whoever yells the loudest, social and political system working well for anyone? How do we get past this? Vote for someone who doesn't have a track record of bankruptcies and has respect from most of his ex-colleagues? Is this really that hard to grasp?
- wittyreference 6y agoThe election of the current president is part of a currently-elected congress, and an appointed judiciary, emerging from larger cultural and economic trends, that all play their role in giving rise to our current situation. This moment was caused by more than the election of Trump; it will need to be resolved by more than the election of non-Trump. "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." - HL Mencken
- tmountain 6y agoExecutive branch is overpowered partially because the senate refuses to do its job. The original intent was for the senate to be slower moving and "cool" house legislation leading to slower moving governing structures. Over time, the executive branch was given additional power to "get stuff done", and we find ourselves in the situation we have today.
- gaukes 6y agoOn the other hand.. the overreach of the executive branch is a response to the political deadlock in the legislative branch. If we end up in a situation where neither branch can respond quickly and effectively, that may be worse than what we have now.
- mariodiana 6y agoI'm not a lawyer, but how is it Harvard and MIT had standing in court for this case?
- amerine 6y agoWhy wouldn’t they? Your question doesn’t make sense to me
- oh_sigh 6y agoYou can't just sue because you are displeased with something - you need to have suffered, or will suffer direct harm from the thing(this is called locus standi). I'm guessing OP is saying that Harvard/MIT would not be harmed from this, only the students would be harmed(so they would need to be the ones to sue, not the college). It kind of makes sense - if everything is online courses, it doesn't matter to Harvard whether the students are at an apartment in Cambridge St or in the middle of the Mongolian steppe, as long as you have internet access. On the other hand, if students are deciding to attend some other university(say, one in their home country) and Harvard can show that harms them, then they would have standing
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- paxys 6y ago> It kind of makes sense - if everything is online courses, it doesn't matter to Harvard whether the students are at an apartment in Cambridge St or in the middle of the Mongolian steppe, as long as you have internet access. It makes a massive difference. 1. Students need good internet access, which a lot of them don't have in third world countries. 2. Students can't be expected to attend lectures and participate in class when they are in an opposite timezone (i.e. all of India and China). It's a pretty easy decision for all of these students to just skip a semester rather than pay ridiculous tuition and not even be allowed to stay on campus, hence causing problems for the university.
- afarrell 6y ago
- ben7799 6y agoThis program was a wild success beyond Trump's wildest dreams. No one is talking about Russian Bounties on US troops. Crisis averted. He just keeps on winning!
- vharuck 6y agoPeople keep saying things like this, but is there any proof it works? Sure, the 24 hour news channels will bounce around, but as a vote-winning strategy it's done very poorly. The Republicans lost the House in 2018. Trump's never had to contend for reelection himself, so his "distraction tactics" haven't been proven. I use quotes because I've stopped believing he has tactics. At most, he does things impulsively, hears how it's spun by lackeys, then adopts their rationalization himself. Maybe he'll keep it in mind the next time he decides something.
- chvid 6y agoAre you serious? To me this adds to the picture of an administration who is about to loose the forthcoming election and is acting more and more eratic. But I am not American so I cannot tell whether this is actually convincing to the broader electorate?
- root_axis 6y ago> To me this adds to the picture of an administration who is about to loose the forthcoming election I wouldn't be so sure, there is still a lot of time before now and the election. We saw the lengths the administration is willing to go to in order to win. Blackmailing the Ukraine to make up lies about their political opponents is just the worst thing we know about, and as disgusting as it was, the aftermath of that shows that half the country supports this type of behavior as a means to an end. I seriously doubt we'll see a transition of power during this election.
- addled 6y agoI'm American, and I cannot tell either. The thing is, sitting Presidents usually get re-elected. Last election seemed like there was a Trump-related controversy every week, and he still managed to win. They say cats hit terminal velocity after falling only about 3 stories, so they are just as likely to survive a 10 storey fall. If Trump can get elected after dozens of questionable statements and actions, why not hundreds?
- aahhahahaaa 6y agoWhether or not they know it, this administration is constantly floating out test balloons for outright evil nonsense... and I think some of it slips through simply because everyone's exhausted by it. It's going to take at least a decade to fix what they've broken at this point, and if they end up appointing just 1 more Supreme Court justice it's going to take the rest of our lives. I still see people (people I know exist and aren't bots!) saying they aren't voting for Biden on Twitter, and I'm honestly not sure how they're interpreting reality. They're not saying it, but I suspect they think that the destruction of the country would be a good thing. Like some sort of imaginary revolution is going to rise from the ashes.
- japhyr 6y ago> Whether or not they know it They know exactly what they're doing. Trump plays the ignorant fool so cruel and heartless policies can be put in place efficiently, and supportive policies can be undone efficiently. I don't think Trump is a bright individual, but he is definitely accomplishing what he set out to accomplish. Most people just aren't used to a president actively undermining their own country.
- aahhahahaaa 6y agoI'm uncertain. It seems possible that many of these people think they're doing good things?
- japhyr 6y agoThey sure do. We have a White House filled with white supremacists and career grifters. All of these people think they're doing good things; they just have a different idea than I do of who deserves "good things".
- rvz 6y ago> We have a White House filled with white supremacists and career grifters I know right? Lots of white supremacists everywhere in the White House with the grand wizard as POTUS spewing 'this hate' all over the place /s. Meanwhile in the 'peaceful' CHAZ/CHOP, they also reported that their experiment turned out to be a pretty good thing for eveyone as 'a summer of love'. /s It's too easy to label and categorize anything you dislike as the most extreme side of the political spectrum. The same is done on both sides. The difference is however, is that you need to give the strongest form of evidence you can find to prove that the White House is filled with these 'white supremacists' as you claim.
- Adorably 6y agoYeah
- yingw787 6y agoYeah this isn't a viable way to formulate public policy. It isn't new either, happened with the travel ban early on. Soft power, and even the viability of a country, depends on certain long-term guarantees, guarantees that the current administration has blown away completely. I'm pessimistic that even if a change in administration occurs early next year (and that is a major if), there would be anything any administration can do before the next Donald Trump takes office 4 or 8 years from now. I'm betting that the next "Trump" will be far smarter and won't make this one's mistakes. And if the Republic falls, no place on Earth will be safe. That's not a reason to lie down and die. It's a reason to fight back with the frenzy of despair. I hope a quarter million dead by December will be enough. Enough for folks to remember that elections have consequences.
- tomp 6y agoUs dearh rate is pretty low and excess deaths are almost back to zero. The problematic outlier is just NYC, where the problem was arguably exacerbated by Democratic mayor encouraging NewYorkers to party in Chinatown end of January. Overall Trump’s response was decent. Edit: Looks like this triggered a few people. Low mortality rate: https://91-divoc.com/pages/covid-visualization/?chart=countries&highlight=United%20States&show=25&y=both&scale=linear&data=mortalityRate-daily-7&data-source=jhu&xaxis=left#countries https://91-divoc.com/pages/covid-visualization/?chart=countr... Excess deaths almost back to zero: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm
- selimthegrim 6y agoHave you been watching TV about Miami and Houston lately?
- hilbertseries 6y agoDeath rate has been falling steadily for several weeks and then this past week increased significantly. New cases and hospitalizations are continuing to rise in several states now, along with deaths there. The epidemic is certainly not over yet.
- 6y ago
- LordFast 6y agoElementary school politics. This would be a hilarious sitcom if it weren't for all the thousands of people getting hurt by this dysfunctional joke of a government.
- RobRivera 6y agoA part of me believes this is more feature and less bug of the government. "Blame the disfunction, not the leadership thats elected every 2 years".
- DaiPlusPlus 6y agoHow is this not a bug? A straightforward patch would be the introduction of FPTP and moving the executive role from the office of the head-of-state to a body controlled by congress.
- p1necone 6y agoFPTP tends to lead to the same heavily divided two major party politics you already have, it just avoids the possibility of winning with <50% of the popular vote. Something like MMP is probably a better system (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mixed-member_proportional_representation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mixed-member_proportional_repr...). Baby steps though.
- dragonwriter 6y ago> FPTP tends to lead to the same heavily divided two major party politics you already have, it just avoids the possibility of winning with <50% of the popular vote. No, it doesn't. FPTP is a synonym for single-member plurality, which enables wins with less than 50% of the popular vote when there are more than two candidates. You may mean majority-runoff (which the US already uses for a fair number of elections) or instant runoff, instead of FPTP, both of which require a kind of majority, but are otherwise very close to FPTP in their incentives and effects.
- ngngngng 6y agoA well known religious University near me just started offering "in person" (wink wink) classes where attendance would not be taken. I was proud to see it.
- thecleaner 6y agoI guess they understand that behind all the symbolism religion should be about welfare. Kudos.
- dmlittle 6y agoI figured some universities would start doing things like this. You can even make the class special in that it's pass/fail, doesn't affect your GPA, doesn't appear in your transcript, it's a special class that is free and doesn't increase your tuition, etc. Glad to know it's no longer going to be required to pull moves like this.
- bredren 6y agoThe criteria was actual not very challenging to meet. I think part of the reason they backed off was because the intent was not enforceable.
- msla 6y agoLoopholes work until a judge uses their ability to exercise judgment and judges that they don't work. Some people refuse to accept that laws are administered by humans.
- generationP 6y agoActually, most universities don't take attendance. It's a waste of time, it punishes pro-social behavior (there is no good reason for people feeling sick to go to class), and it's infantilizing. "Attendance required" often means "we will notice if you never attend, and then will feel less bad failing you if you don't do your homework either".
- wahern 6y agoMy law school classes took attendance. Rigorously. Because time management is a critical skill for attorneys, judges don't tolerate any amount of unannounced absenteeism, and missing filing deadlines can be and often is extremely costly, not just for you but for your client. (Also, taking attendance weeds out the liars. The ABA has strict attendance requirements and you're not supposed to get a degree if you miss them.) If was a very tough transition because, of course, both in undergraduate and in professional life lackadaisical attitudes were tolerated, especially so long as you otherwise performed the substantive work. We all love to rationalize away those things we dislike doing. But there was no wiggle room to rationalize it away in law school. I'm sure the military is similar.
- lefrenchy 6y agoSuch an embarrassing blunder, of many blunders, for this administration.
- willis936 6y agoHe got his racist dogwhistle in during an election year, made international headlines, and sees no repercussions. How can this be viewed as anything other than a win for Trump?
- RHSeeger 6y agoI was under the impression that the law that was already in place was that purely online courses were not allowed. And that it had been in place for a long time. After coming out and stating "this is already the law", and resulting pushback against it, the thing changed by this administration was to allow purely online courses for visa students. Are you saying that allowing purely online learning for students with visas is a blunder, or am I misinformed about this?
- stu2b50 6y agoThe blunder was retracting the special exception made during Spring 2020 that allowed F and M visa students to take online classes. The pandemic is far from over, especially in the US, a fact which is obvious to everyone. The retraction is pure stupidity. Of course it would be unreasonable to ask int students to attend in person classes given the situation.
- totalZero 6y agoI have been on the fence about this policy, for the following reason. On the one hand, it seems overtly xenophobic and anti-intellectual. On the other hand, I don't see why an international student needs to be in the United States in order to participate exclusively in online classes. Even if the issue is a lack of human welfare (eg unsafe neighborhood) or necessary infrastructure (eg slow/inconsistent internet) back home, an international student could live somewhere else and probably save a ton of money in the process. What am I missing?
- jimbob45 6y agoThis is genius. If you assume that the Trump Administration did this to show their base that they're serious about deporting foreigners to garner election votes, then you can conclude that they've managed to do that with as much publicity as possible at virtually no cost financially. It's likely they knew this would never go through and didn't want a knockdown drag-out fight in the courts. However, they still capitalized on a situation and should be congratulated for that, regardless of whether or not you agree with the politics. I would hope that the DNC would learn this tactic and employ it equally as well in the future.
- dmode 6y agoYes, humans are just political pawns to be played around to pacify a voting base.
- abvdasker 6y agoAt this point the Trump admin is likely to do everything possible to try and drive the news cycle away from the pandemic. Everything the current administration does until the election should be understood through that lens.
- JaggedJax 6y agoI really hope we don't all devolve into acting like this.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- fblp 6y agoA huge opputunity cost of this kind of behavior is further distraction from forming policy that actually improves the lives of the community.
- benrbray 6y agoI'm sorry, what? You think it's a good thing for our politicians to waste everyone's time by pushing policies they know will never pass / will be struck down in court, just to win political points? IMO this sort of thing is exactly what's wrong with the political climate right now. This sort of behavior makes it all about "us vs them" and shuts down any sort of nuanced discussion about what's best for the country.
- A4ET8a8uTh0 6y agoFor many it is a sigh of relief. I am almost afraid of hitting administration too much for fear of having them dig in again.