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58% of Americans supported sending in the military to stop looting and property destruction, including 37% of African Americans (a sizable minority). I would as

58% of Americans supported sending in the military to stop looting and property destruction, including 37% of African Americans (a sizable minority). I would assume they wanted to prevent the city being burnt down rather than stop non-violent protests. https://www.newsweek.com/majority-americans-support-calling-military-assist-police-during-nationwide-unrest-polling-shows-1508210 https://www.newsweek.com/majority-americans-support-calling-... https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicholasreimann/2020/06/02/58-of-voters-support-using-military-to-help-police-control-protests-poll-finds/#632d324a2417 https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicholasreimann/2020/06/02/58-o... When the protests are peaceful, you don't need to send in military. When the city is burning, it could be a solution. I don't agree with sending them in, but a strong majority of Americans did.

minikites 6y ago
A majority of Americans supported the shooting of students at Kent State at the time, Americans are always thirsty for blood. That's not a compelling argument. >Some [students] were told that more students should have been killed to teach student protesters a lesson; some students were disowned by their families.
- seibelj 6y ago
  I think giving a platform to someone who is a sitting US Senator, who has an argument supported by the majority of Americans, in the supposed Newspaper of Record, isn't the craziest thing ever decided and should not have led to the editor's firing.
  - minikites 6y ago
    Why the appeal to authority? There are plenty of senators who don't believe in evolution and other basic principles of science. Publishing an anti-science op-ed from any of them would be just as harmful as Tom Cotton's incitement to violence.
    - seibelj 6y ago
      The rioters were already burning buildings and looting stores. That is why Tom Cotton proposed sending in the military. It was fighting violence with violence. Again, I disagree with sending in the military, but preventing the progressive readership of the NYT from hearing about an opinion that 58% of Americans hold is simply coddling them and keeping them away from bad thoughts. We need an informed citizenry, not one that is afraid of ideas. This is why I support publishing such an op-ed despite disagreeing with it. It allows us to debate and attack the idea, without letting it fester and hide. Bad ideas should be argued against this way, not de-platformed entirely.
      - joshuamorton 6y ago
        Then cover it as news. "Tom Cotton supports sending military troops to suppress peaceful protests" is a headline.
        asdf21 6y ago
        Burning down buildings and looting is "peaceful" to you? How about spreading Covid during a lockdown? Is that peaceful as well? Take a moment and watch this video, out of Novato... https://streamable.com/58kma9 https://streamable.com/58kma9 These are senior citizens, in a 85% liberal area, who are trying to support local business during a pandemic, and they potentially just contracted Covid which could easily kill them, for what?
      - minikites 6y ago
        >This is why I support publishing such an op-ed despite disagreeing with it. It allows us to debate and attack the idea, without letting it fester and hide. Bad ideas should be argued against this way, not de-platformed entirely. If you're so certain the ideas would be defeated then why not hand out copies of the Turner Diaries to every citizen? Why is racism still around when a true marketplace of ideas would have defeated it centuries ago? Propaganda doesn't fit into your naive model of how ideas spread and function.
        6y ago
  - nickthegreek 6y ago
    I thought the Editor who was fired never read the op-ed he rubber stamped. That to me, is the fireable offense, not the posting of it.
ebg13 6y ago
> When the protests are peaceful, you don't need to send in military. When the city is burning, it could be a solution. What about the many reports that the protests started peaceful until the police started shooting? You may disagree about whether it's racist to decide in that circumstance to send the military against the group that isn't the police, but it does seem to be willfully blind to the relationship between cause and effect in a way that to some is highly suggestive. Racism isn't always saying "death to black people". Sometimes it's saying "stop resisting" with a baton and a gun when you instigated conflict in the first place.
- SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
  When entire city blocks in Minneapolis were burning to the ground, I think there was a reasonable case to be made that cause and effect didn't matter anymore.
huzaif 6y ago
That sizable minority are the only ones who have anything to lose from the looting and property destruction. Those that are impacted by racism and police violence, people without homes or jobs, likely don't want any Military involvement. Here is a pretty powerful message: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoDeVpvuEzI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoDeVpvuEzI
- jimbokun 6y ago
  "That sizable minority are the only ones who have anything to lose from the looting and property destruction." And they deserve to have their opinions hear too, no?

minikites 6y ago

A majority of Americans supported the shooting of students at Kent State at the time, Americans are always thirsty for blood. That's not a compelling argument. >Some [students] were told that more students should have been killed to teach student protesters a lesson; some students were disowned by their families.

seibelj 6y ago
I think giving a platform to someone who is a sitting US Senator, who has an argument supported by the majority of Americans, in the supposed Newspaper of Record, isn't the craziest thing ever decided and should not have led to the editor's firing.
- minikites 6y ago
  Why the appeal to authority? There are plenty of senators who don't believe in evolution and other basic principles of science. Publishing an anti-science op-ed from any of them would be just as harmful as Tom Cotton's incitement to violence.
  - seibelj 6y ago
    The rioters were already burning buildings and looting stores. That is why Tom Cotton proposed sending in the military. It was fighting violence with violence. Again, I disagree with sending in the military, but preventing the progressive readership of the NYT from hearing about an opinion that 58% of Americans hold is simply coddling them and keeping them away from bad thoughts. We need an informed citizenry, not one that is afraid of ideas. This is why I support publishing such an op-ed despite disagreeing with it. It allows us to debate and attack the idea, without letting it fester and hide. Bad ideas should be argued against this way, not de-platformed entirely.
    - joshuamorton 6y ago
      Then cover it as news. "Tom Cotton supports sending military troops to suppress peaceful protests" is a headline.
      - asdf21 6y ago
        Burning down buildings and looting is "peaceful" to you? How about spreading Covid during a lockdown? Is that peaceful as well? Take a moment and watch this video, out of Novato... https://streamable.com/58kma9 https://streamable.com/58kma9 These are senior citizens, in a 85% liberal area, who are trying to support local business during a pandemic, and they potentially just contracted Covid which could easily kill them, for what?
    - minikites 6y ago
      >This is why I support publishing such an op-ed despite disagreeing with it. It allows us to debate and attack the idea, without letting it fester and hide. Bad ideas should be argued against this way, not de-platformed entirely. If you're so certain the ideas would be defeated then why not hand out copies of the Turner Diaries to every citizen? Why is racism still around when a true marketplace of ideas would have defeated it centuries ago? Propaganda doesn't fit into your naive model of how ideas spread and function.
      - 6y ago
- nickthegreek 6y ago
  I thought the Editor who was fired never read the op-ed he rubber stamped. That to me, is the fireable offense, not the posting of it.

ebg13 6y ago

> When the protests are peaceful, you don't need to send in military. When the city is burning, it could be a solution. What about the many reports that the protests started peaceful until the police started shooting? You may disagree about whether it's racist to decide in that circumstance to send the military against the group that isn't the police, but it does seem to be willfully blind to the relationship between cause and effect in a way that to some is highly suggestive. Racism isn't always saying "death to black people". Sometimes it's saying "stop resisting" with a baton and a gun when you instigated conflict in the first place.

SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
When entire city blocks in Minneapolis were burning to the ground, I think there was a reasonable case to be made that cause and effect didn't matter anymore.

huzaif 6y ago

That sizable minority are the only ones who have anything to lose from the looting and property destruction. Those that are impacted by racism and police violence, people without homes or jobs, likely don't want any Military involvement. Here is a pretty powerful message: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoDeVpvuEzI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoDeVpvuEzI

jimbokun 6y ago
"That sizable minority are the only ones who have anything to lose from the looting and property destruction." And they deserve to have their opinions hear too, no?