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I agree with this wholeheartedly, even as a Tesla owner. Tesla goofed from the beginning by calling tech like "Autosteer" and "Traffic Assisted Cruise Control"

I agree with this wholeheartedly, even as a Tesla owner. Tesla goofed from the beginning by calling tech like "Autosteer" and "Traffic Assisted Cruise Control" under the moniker "Autopilot" while shifting everything above that to "Full Self-Driving". They should have called it "CoPilot" since that infers that you're still the driver in charge of controlling the vehicle and it would have had exactly the same reception (possibly better) than what's happening now. As it stands, it's misleading and, frankly, disappointing to get into a Tesla for the first time and try "Autopilot" only to realize that you have to keep your hands on the wheel, navigate the accelerator and brakes, stop at lights and stop signs, and basically drive the car while it keeps you in the lane and stops you from hitting other cars. That's not "Autopilot", that's "CoPilot".

kirillzubovsky 6y ago
I was reading somewhere that a while back Germany classified "autopilot" to be at least Level 4, where's in case of emergency the car needs to be able to take and maintain control for a least X-time duration. Under those rules Tesla does not qualify, and neither do other manufacturers. However, if the rules are rules, it would be unfair that Tesla gets to advertise something that others aren't allowed to.
rising-sky 6y ago
Uhm, it's "similar" to how autopilot works on commercial airplanes. And they have two human pilots.
the8472 6y ago
We should actually look at the court's reasoning (which I can't find referenced anywhere in the news articles). I doubt it singularly revolves around the interpretation of the word autopilot.
chrisseaton 6y ago
> They should have called it "CoPilot" [rather than "AutoPilot"] Huh but a co-pilot is much more capable than an auto-pilot system. An auto-pilot mostly keeps you level, going the right speed, and pointing in the right direction, and can do some limited landing and things. That sounds to me exactly like what Tesla's system does? A co-pilot is a human who can take complete control from you for the rest of the whole flight and deal with any emergency or unexpected situation. The co-pilot is much more advanced than the autopilot.
- catalogia 6y ago
  The problem with this line of reasoning is that the general public has an inaccurate understanding of what airplane autopilots are capable of. The belief that modern airline pilots just push a button to turn on the plane then take a nap until the plane lands is widespread. In naming their system after a system the public has a poor understanding of, Tesla is being misleading.
  - aaomidi 6y ago
    Tesla conveniently used a word where it actually means something far simpler than what the general public knows it to mean. Tesla knew this but they did it anyway because $$$.
  - chrisseaton 6y ago
    However good the public think autopilots are, I'm sure they don't think they're more capable than a co-pilot!
    - catalogia 6y ago
      I agree that 'co-pilot' would also be a very misleading name. I think they should avoid these sort of airplane analogies entirely and just describe features as they are. E.g. call lane assist "lane assist", call adaptive cruise control "adaptive cruise control." These are terms that reasonably convey what the systems do, without exploiting the public's general ignorance of how airplanes work.
    - FabHK 6y ago
      Etymologically though, the co-pilot is pilot along with you and supports you, while the auto-pilot is a pilot by itself, independently (dare I say: autonomously). "Autopilot" remains a very misleading term in the car context.
      - chrisseaton 6y ago
        No you have it the wrong way around. A co-pilot is equal to a pilot. An autopilot automates just some functions of piloting.
perbu 6y ago
Have you flown on autopilot? It maintains speed, height and direction. It doesn't land or take off. Originally it couldn't even turn.
- catalogia 6y ago
  Some can land in some conditions. However take off is still done by pilots in everything other than a few experimental aircraft.
  - chrisseaton 6y ago
    > Some can land in some conditions. So... a bit like a Tesla parking itself in some conditions?
    - catalogia 6y ago
      Perhaps, but I've already responded to you addressing this, in this thread. The public's ignorance must be considered; being "technically correct" isn't good enough if the "technically correct" statement is being made by somebody who has every reason to believe it will be misunderstood.
      - bkor 6y ago
        To add: saying that your marketing is "technically correct" while focussing on the general audience is quite convenient (deceptive).
    - voqv 6y ago
      I hope you really don't think it's a good comparison. The level of effort and safety engineering that went into ILS Cat IIIb and Autoland is above and beyond what any automotive company is doing. Autoland is mandatory in certain conditions.
    - Piskvorrr 6y ago
      Requires total coordination and compliance from both stationary and moving parts of the system, and operator is supposed to take over immediately, continuing the manouevre, at the sign of any trouble? Yeah. That's almost completely unlike a Tesla parking.
elandrum 6y ago
It sure does get them a lot of attention though! My Jeep Cherokee has lane assist, adaptive cruise control, auto-parking, and crash detection (emergency braking) but they don’t get all this press about it.
- patd 6y ago
  Maybe because it’s not the same ? I don’t own a Jeep but Lane assist typically means warning the user if you drive over the line. Tesla steers by itself and more. Adaptive Cruise Control typically works only above a given speed. Tesla’s does work at low speed too. At least Tesla cars seem to do more than the German cars I have driven before.
  - FireBeyond 6y ago
    Right, but by the same token there's also a reality distortion field where some Tesla owners believe that they have functionality that no-one else does. I have had multiple people tell me about how revolutionary Tesla's blind spot warning system is, because it's adaptive to relative speeds, and not "just a dumb sensor like everyone else's". Except even my entry level 2015 Audi has it. Car in your blind spot or just behind that's at your speed, or slower? Warning time is adjusted accordingly. Sit in traffic while cars whiz by you in the HOV lane? It accounts for the massive speed differential and alerts you far earlier. But somehow at least some Tesla owners think that "no-one but Tesla does this".
  - callalex 6y ago
    No that is lane departure warning. Lane assist, which almost every major manufacturer now offers, does the steering to keep you in your lane, and combines with adaptive cruise control to follow the car in front of you at a safe distance. This is almost universally available, and not specific to Tesla at all.
    - mynameisvlad 6y ago
      But is Lane Assist equivalent to Autosteer? I own a Model 3, which also has Lane Assist as a separate feature. I'd say it's a gentle nudge, while Autosteer has full control of the steering wheel (with a fairly high resistance).
NeutronStar 6y ago
The issue is one of definition. I don't know why people associate autopilot with a definition that isn't autopilot. An autopilot is a system used to control the trajectory of an aircraft, marine craft or spacecraft without requiring constant manual control by a human operator. Autopilot does not replace human operators. Instead, autopilot assists the operator's control of the vehicle, allowing the operator to focus on broader aspects of operations (for example, monitoring the trajectory, weather and on-board systems) [0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autopilot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autopilot
- rzzzt 6y ago
  The answer is "Knight Rider".
  - NeutronStar 6y ago
    So you take your definitions from movies now?
- zmk_ 6y ago
  Because it is being sold to customers in a different context. Autopilot for planes does not need to take into account other planes (flight paths are separated) to the same degree as cars do (where other "obstacles" constantly zip next to you).
  - NeutronStar 6y ago
    So business should be forced to put the definition of words they use as source now?
- kalenx 6y ago
  The "why" is not really relevant here, the general perception is. The fact is, if you say "autopilot" and "self driving capabilities" to most people, they will infer that the car does not need a driver to be operated safely, which is definitely not the case.
ojnabieoot 6y ago
> Tesla goofed from the beginning by calling tech like "Autosteer" and "Traffic Assisted Cruise Control" under the moniker "Autopilot" I am not accusing you specifically of using weak language, but let's call a spade a spade: it's not a "goof," it's a dangerous and deceptive business practice. It's one that Elon Musk is directly responsible for and directly encouraged with misleading statements where he deliberately exaggerated the capabilities of Autopilot. It's a disgrace and one of many many many reasons why Tesla needs to outright fire Musk. There are too many good people at Tesla, who don't deserve his selfish and irresponsible leadership. To the people pointing out that airplane autopilots work similarly to Tesla Autopilot: the problem is not the foolish Tesla owners have never flows a plane before. The problem is that in the public mind, they "know" that "autopilot" means "totally autonomous" and they "know" that the computer-car-spaceship supergenius Elon Musk has been hyping his self-driving tech. It is true that highly knowledgeable people know that Musk is an idiot conman, that "autopilot" is a very limited set of features, and so on - and that none of these things detract from the fact that Tesla makes a good car. But Tesla fans shouldn't invent ridiculous exonerations. Tesla has a responsibility for the safety of its users and they failed. Fans (along with the EU and US) need to hold the company accountable.
- alasdair_ 6y ago
  > It is true that highly knowledgeable people know that Musk is an idiot conman Musk may be many, many things - perhaps even a conman - but he is in no way an “idiot” in any sane definition of that word.
- knocte 6y ago
  Amen.
- typon 6y ago
  It's strange how much people will bend over backwards to give Musk the benefit of doubt when he openly lies about such things
  - ardit33 6y ago
    While he has achieved a lot, His claims sometimes are downright bizarre... I don't know if it is just intentional deception, drugs, or some kind of bi-polar mania, or a combination of all the above. We should be able to make our Teslas to be fully automated robo-taxis by now... and earn cash on the side.... https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-robo-taxis-elon-musk-pt-barnum-circus-2019-4 https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-robo-taxis-elon-musk-p... I wouldn't trust my family's life, on his (often) delusional claims.
HumblyTossed 6y ago
If you use the wayback machine and look at their AutoPilot page, the very first thing you see is ... well, here: https://web.archive.org/web/20170201120106/https://www.tesla.com/autopilot https://web.archive.org/web/20170201120106/https://www.tesla... They wanted people to believe that this had more capabilities than it really does.
- uniqueid 6y ago
  > All Tesla vehicles produced in our factory, including Model 3, have the hardware needed for full self-driving capability at a safety level substantially greater than that of a human driver. My my, that is brazen!
  - jdminhbg 6y ago
    It's also almost certainly true. Whether you think LIDAR-based systems are the way to go, there's no doubt that full self-driving based on cameras is possible given the right software. That's what humans are, after all, so it's "just" a matter of building the software to drive that hardware.
    - smnrchrds 6y ago
      Apple, HP, etc should take note and sell their laptops as "have the hardware needed for full AGI capability." Chemistry kits with a sample of every element in the periodic table should advertise them as "have all the materials needed for COVID-19 vaccine."
      - sgnelson 6y ago
        It's just software. How hard can it be? /s
        jdminhbg 6y ago
        That’s why I put “just” in scare quotes.
stetrain 6y ago
Actually I think the name "Autopilot" is the least troublesome part of the marketing. Other car makers call their systems CoPilot, ProPilot, SuperCruise, whatever and I think the name matters less than the communication and details of using the system. The main Autopilot marketing page shows a video of a Tesla driving itself, says the Driver is there for legal purposes only, and provides no other disclaimers about the limitations, or that the demonstration is of internal test software and not reproducible with consumer vehicles. https://www.tesla.com/autopilot https://www.tesla.com/autopilot Actually using the car, the system is fairly clear about the need to pay attention and keep your hands on the wheel, but it allows you to engage Autosteer in areas the manual says you should not (ie city streets) and does not clearly indicate what areas are good or not good for using Autosteer. SuperCruise only works on specifically listed highway segments, which limits its usefulness but also prevents these issues. Also Tesla relies on the steering wheel torque sensor to determine driver presence. This leads to false negatives (my hands are on the wheel but not providing a turning force so the car gives an alert) and is easily bypassed (there are third party products that clip on to the steering wheel and provide enough weight to fool the system). Competing systems (SuperCruise, BMW) use driver monitor cameras or capacitive wheel sensors to provide a better indication of driver attentiveness.
- enahs-sf 6y ago
  It would be a huge improvement (and a weight off my shoulders as a driver) if the car could show you the confidence level it has in the current road situation. Eg. I took a tesla through the snow, and I wouldn't trust autopilot with my life in that situation, but when driving on 80 towards tahoe during the summer, it's a godsend.
- natch 6y ago
  >no other disclaimers about the limitations No other disclaimers? Are we reading the same page you linked? The title of the page clearly says “Future of Driving” “Autopilot today and full self-driving capabilities in the future...“ The page then goes on to define what Autopilot is and concludes with this: “Current Autopilot features require active driver supervision and do not make the vehicle autonomous.”
ummonk 6y ago
Even "autosteer" is more commonly called "lane centering" by the industry. A term that provides much more clarity to the user.
dheera 6y ago
> They should have called it "CoPilot" I agree with this fully, although the reality now is if Tesla used this name Ford might sue them.
KKKKkkkk1 6y ago
Elon is a master of saying something that's technically correct, but sounds like something completely different, something that people want to believe and is completely untrue. So the car has "full self-driving capability" but is not actually self driving. The "basic functionality for L5 will be done this year" but not actual self driving [0]. Autopilot branding comes from the same strategy. [0] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-tesla-autonomous/tesla-very-close-to-level-5-autonomous-driving-technology-musk-says-idUSKBN24A0HE https://www.reuters.com/article/us-tesla-autonomous/tesla-ve...
vkou 6y ago
> Tesla goofed from the beginning It's wasn't a 'whoopsie daisies we goofed up'. It was a cynical play for market share.
outworlder 6y ago
> Tesla goofed from the beginning by calling tech like "Autosteer" and "Traffic Assisted Cruise Control" under the moniker "Autopilot" Aviation autopilots can do even less than that and yet they are still called "autopilot". Altitude hold? That's autopilot. Also, "copilots" are generally fully capable of flying the aircraft and have the exact same capabilities. If you are irked about the 'autopilot' moniker, then ditch aviation terminology entirely.
- altacc 6y ago
  Putting aside that modern plane autopilots can also navigate and land planes, the common definition of words is often more important than the technical definition. Especially when it comes to marketing to the general public. Terminology gets reused because it has a common usage and somebody wants to use that to frame their new & shiny product. Ask a normal person what they think autopilot does and they'll say "the plane flys by itself". Using that for cars becomes "the car drives itself". Same for copilot, most people probably think they're there to help the pilot.
dwighttk 6y ago
With a copilot the pilot can go to the bathroom or go to sleep. Or die. Copilots are autonomous.
DenisM 6y ago
In aviation the auto-pilot is a relatively dumb machine that must be supervised, whereas a co-pilot is a human that could be trusted with full operations of the aircraft. I find it rather droll that the common use of the words completely inverted the original meaning.
- dlp211 6y ago
  It likely inverted because vehicles don't come with two sets of steering instruments and therefore co-pilot/driver means something else in the driving world.
  - OnlyForF1 6y ago
    A co-driver in the driving world is either a Rally co-pilot who gives extremely detailed navigation instructions or someone who will literally get into the drivers seat to relieve the duties of the other driver on long road trips. It's a much more involved process than what an airplane autopilot can do.
    - dlp211 6y ago
      Yes, in racing, not in everyday driving.
whitexn--g28h 6y ago
There is precedent for using the word auto-pilot[1], even in a plane the pilots are required to pay attention. It’s only the deceptive claims of the system’s ability that should be banned. 1. https://www.curbsideclassic.com/blog/history/automotive-history-capsule-chryslers-1958-auto-pilot-56-years-before-teslas-autopilot/ https://www.curbsideclassic.com/blog/history/automotive-hist...
OliverJones 6y ago
I too have a Tesla vehicle, and I too agree with this German regulator's decision. You CAN'T climb from the driver's seat to the back seat and take a nap while the car is running. And that's because lane holding and adaptive cruise control are not reliable enough. "Autopilot" is deceptive. In aviation, it's hard to engage an autopilot until you have a desired altitude, heading, and speed. And that's in the sky, far from guard rails and hopefully far from other traffic. Oh, and by the way, before you do any of that you have to go to school, pass a rigorous practical test, get your hands on an airplane with autopilot, put fuel in it, get cleared for taxi, takeoff, climbout and cruise. There are some hurdles to jump over. I wish they had used some other word to brand this stuff. And, they've been saying "Level 5 this year" for a few years now. This is the kind of hype that got us the "AI Winter" back in the 1970s. Let's not go there again.
- OnlyForF1 6y ago
  >You CAN'T climb from the driver's seat to the back seat and take a nap You can't do this with an aircraft autopilot either, there must always be a human pilot ready to take over at a moment's notice.
mikelyons 6y ago
This is how evolution works though, he described it himself. "There will be death, there will be some outcry, and [regulation will step in to move the evolution in the direction of absolute Good] ..."
themantra514 6y ago
It's about stonk. Elon became a master at low key commenting on features "soon to be released" and on the "verge of" but those comments are non binding. You know what those comments do? They become nudges for stonk buyers who want to get in on the deal early before the features are released & the stonk price goes higher. Yeah, Elon knows how to make potential investors go crazy with the "buy low and sell high" fomo; Just read his Twitter feed filled with carrots on the proverbial stick. Oh Elon, you cheeky, cheeky bastard :) TTYl everybody, gotta go catch my robo taxi! opens Waymo on smartphone PS: Never forget, Martin Eberhard and Marc Tarpenning were the original Tesla visionaries, Elon pretty much just bought his way into the vision...and pushed out Martin Eberhard.
darkerside 6y ago
What I've realized is that Elon Musk simply puts less value on individual human lives than most others do. I don't mean that quite as harshly as it comes off, but it does seem that Elon likely believes the world would be a better place if all of the "dumbest" people were allowed to get themselves killed, allowing the rest of the human race to move forward. He may have a point, but I can't go down that path with him.
andrepd 6y ago
I didn't even realise that was all that the touted "Tesla Autopilot" did, so much was the hype around the internet. My 20k car does the same then (lane keeping + auto emergency braking).

kirillzubovsky 6y ago

I was reading somewhere that a while back Germany classified "autopilot" to be at least Level 4, where's in case of emergency the car needs to be able to take and maintain control for a least X-time duration. Under those rules Tesla does not qualify, and neither do other manufacturers. However, if the rules are rules, it would be unfair that Tesla gets to advertise something that others aren't allowed to.

rising-sky 6y ago

Uhm, it's "similar" to how autopilot works on commercial airplanes. And they have two human pilots.

the8472 6y ago

We should actually look at the court's reasoning (which I can't find referenced anywhere in the news articles). I doubt it singularly revolves around the interpretation of the word autopilot.

chrisseaton 6y ago

> They should have called it "CoPilot" [rather than "AutoPilot"] Huh but a co-pilot is much more capable than an auto-pilot system. An auto-pilot mostly keeps you level, going the right speed, and pointing in the right direction, and can do some limited landing and things. That sounds to me exactly like what Tesla's system does? A co-pilot is a human who can take complete control from you for the rest of the whole flight and deal with any emergency or unexpected situation. The co-pilot is much more advanced than the autopilot.

catalogia 6y ago
The problem with this line of reasoning is that the general public has an inaccurate understanding of what airplane autopilots are capable of. The belief that modern airline pilots just push a button to turn on the plane then take a nap until the plane lands is widespread. In naming their system after a system the public has a poor understanding of, Tesla is being misleading.
- aaomidi 6y ago
  Tesla conveniently used a word where it actually means something far simpler than what the general public knows it to mean. Tesla knew this but they did it anyway because $$$.
- chrisseaton 6y ago
  However good the public think autopilots are, I'm sure they don't think they're more capable than a co-pilot!
  - catalogia 6y ago
    I agree that 'co-pilot' would also be a very misleading name. I think they should avoid these sort of airplane analogies entirely and just describe features as they are. E.g. call lane assist "lane assist", call adaptive cruise control "adaptive cruise control." These are terms that reasonably convey what the systems do, without exploiting the public's general ignorance of how airplanes work.
  - FabHK 6y ago
    Etymologically though, the co-pilot is pilot along with you and supports you, while the auto-pilot is a pilot by itself, independently (dare I say: autonomously). "Autopilot" remains a very misleading term in the car context.
    - chrisseaton 6y ago
      No you have it the wrong way around. A co-pilot is equal to a pilot. An autopilot automates just some functions of piloting.

perbu 6y ago

Have you flown on autopilot? It maintains speed, height and direction. It doesn't land or take off. Originally it couldn't even turn.

catalogia 6y ago
Some can land in some conditions. However take off is still done by pilots in everything other than a few experimental aircraft.
- chrisseaton 6y ago
  > Some can land in some conditions. So... a bit like a Tesla parking itself in some conditions?
  - catalogia 6y ago
    Perhaps, but I've already responded to you addressing this, in this thread. The public's ignorance must be considered; being "technically correct" isn't good enough if the "technically correct" statement is being made by somebody who has every reason to believe it will be misunderstood.
    - bkor 6y ago
      To add: saying that your marketing is "technically correct" while focussing on the general audience is quite convenient (deceptive).
  - voqv 6y ago
    I hope you really don't think it's a good comparison. The level of effort and safety engineering that went into ILS Cat IIIb and Autoland is above and beyond what any automotive company is doing. Autoland is mandatory in certain conditions.
  - Piskvorrr 6y ago
    Requires total coordination and compliance from both stationary and moving parts of the system, and operator is supposed to take over immediately, continuing the manouevre, at the sign of any trouble? Yeah. That's almost completely unlike a Tesla parking.

elandrum 6y ago

It sure does get them a lot of attention though! My Jeep Cherokee has lane assist, adaptive cruise control, auto-parking, and crash detection (emergency braking) but they don’t get all this press about it.

patd 6y ago
Maybe because it’s not the same ? I don’t own a Jeep but Lane assist typically means warning the user if you drive over the line. Tesla steers by itself and more. Adaptive Cruise Control typically works only above a given speed. Tesla’s does work at low speed too. At least Tesla cars seem to do more than the German cars I have driven before.
- FireBeyond 6y ago
  Right, but by the same token there's also a reality distortion field where some Tesla owners believe that they have functionality that no-one else does. I have had multiple people tell me about how revolutionary Tesla's blind spot warning system is, because it's adaptive to relative speeds, and not "just a dumb sensor like everyone else's". Except even my entry level 2015 Audi has it. Car in your blind spot or just behind that's at your speed, or slower? Warning time is adjusted accordingly. Sit in traffic while cars whiz by you in the HOV lane? It accounts for the massive speed differential and alerts you far earlier. But somehow at least some Tesla owners think that "no-one but Tesla does this".
- callalex 6y ago
  No that is lane departure warning. Lane assist, which almost every major manufacturer now offers, does the steering to keep you in your lane, and combines with adaptive cruise control to follow the car in front of you at a safe distance. This is almost universally available, and not specific to Tesla at all.
  - mynameisvlad 6y ago
    But is Lane Assist equivalent to Autosteer? I own a Model 3, which also has Lane Assist as a separate feature. I'd say it's a gentle nudge, while Autosteer has full control of the steering wheel (with a fairly high resistance).

NeutronStar 6y ago

The issue is one of definition. I don't know why people associate autopilot with a definition that isn't autopilot. An autopilot is a system used to control the trajectory of an aircraft, marine craft or spacecraft without requiring constant manual control by a human operator. Autopilot does not replace human operators. Instead, autopilot assists the operator's control of the vehicle, allowing the operator to focus on broader aspects of operations (for example, monitoring the trajectory, weather and on-board systems) [0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autopilot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autopilot

rzzzt 6y ago
The answer is "Knight Rider".
- NeutronStar 6y ago
  So you take your definitions from movies now?
zmk_ 6y ago
Because it is being sold to customers in a different context. Autopilot for planes does not need to take into account other planes (flight paths are separated) to the same degree as cars do (where other "obstacles" constantly zip next to you).
- NeutronStar 6y ago
  So business should be forced to put the definition of words they use as source now?
kalenx 6y ago
The "why" is not really relevant here, the general perception is. The fact is, if you say "autopilot" and "self driving capabilities" to most people, they will infer that the car does not need a driver to be operated safely, which is definitely not the case.

ojnabieoot 6y ago

> Tesla goofed from the beginning by calling tech like "Autosteer" and "Traffic Assisted Cruise Control" under the moniker "Autopilot" I am not accusing you specifically of using weak language, but let's call a spade a spade: it's not a "goof," it's a dangerous and deceptive business practice. It's one that Elon Musk is directly responsible for and directly encouraged with misleading statements where he deliberately exaggerated the capabilities of Autopilot. It's a disgrace and one of many many many reasons why Tesla needs to outright fire Musk. There are too many good people at Tesla, who don't deserve his selfish and irresponsible leadership. To the people pointing out that airplane autopilots work similarly to Tesla Autopilot: the problem is not the foolish Tesla owners have never flows a plane before. The problem is that in the public mind, they "know" that "autopilot" means "totally autonomous" and they "know" that the computer-car-spaceship supergenius Elon Musk has been hyping his self-driving tech. It is true that highly knowledgeable people know that Musk is an idiot conman, that "autopilot" is a very limited set of features, and so on - and that none of these things detract from the fact that Tesla makes a good car. But Tesla fans shouldn't invent ridiculous exonerations. Tesla has a responsibility for the safety of its users and they failed. Fans (along with the EU and US) need to hold the company accountable.

alasdair_ 6y ago
> It is true that highly knowledgeable people know that Musk is an idiot conman Musk may be many, many things - perhaps even a conman - but he is in no way an “idiot” in any sane definition of that word.
knocte 6y ago
Amen.
typon 6y ago
It's strange how much people will bend over backwards to give Musk the benefit of doubt when he openly lies about such things
- ardit33 6y ago
  While he has achieved a lot, His claims sometimes are downright bizarre... I don't know if it is just intentional deception, drugs, or some kind of bi-polar mania, or a combination of all the above. We should be able to make our Teslas to be fully automated robo-taxis by now... and earn cash on the side.... https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-robo-taxis-elon-musk-pt-barnum-circus-2019-4 https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-robo-taxis-elon-musk-p... I wouldn't trust my family's life, on his (often) delusional claims.

HumblyTossed 6y ago

If you use the wayback machine and look at their AutoPilot page, the very first thing you see is ... well, here: https://web.archive.org/web/20170201120106/https://www.tesla.com/autopilot https://web.archive.org/web/20170201120106/https://www.tesla... They wanted people to believe that this had more capabilities than it really does.

uniqueid 6y ago
> All Tesla vehicles produced in our factory, including Model 3, have the hardware needed for full self-driving capability at a safety level substantially greater than that of a human driver. My my, that is brazen!
- jdminhbg 6y ago
  It's also almost certainly true. Whether you think LIDAR-based systems are the way to go, there's no doubt that full self-driving based on cameras is possible given the right software. That's what humans are, after all, so it's "just" a matter of building the software to drive that hardware.
  - smnrchrds 6y ago
    Apple, HP, etc should take note and sell their laptops as "have the hardware needed for full AGI capability." Chemistry kits with a sample of every element in the periodic table should advertise them as "have all the materials needed for COVID-19 vaccine."
    - sgnelson 6y ago
      It's just software. How hard can it be? /s
      - jdminhbg 6y ago
        That’s why I put “just” in scare quotes.

stetrain 6y ago

Actually I think the name "Autopilot" is the least troublesome part of the marketing. Other car makers call their systems CoPilot, ProPilot, SuperCruise, whatever and I think the name matters less than the communication and details of using the system. The main Autopilot marketing page shows a video of a Tesla driving itself, says the Driver is there for legal purposes only, and provides no other disclaimers about the limitations, or that the demonstration is of internal test software and not reproducible with consumer vehicles. https://www.tesla.com/autopilot https://www.tesla.com/autopilot Actually using the car, the system is fairly clear about the need to pay attention and keep your hands on the wheel, but it allows you to engage Autosteer in areas the manual says you should not (ie city streets) and does not clearly indicate what areas are good or not good for using Autosteer. SuperCruise only works on specifically listed highway segments, which limits its usefulness but also prevents these issues. Also Tesla relies on the steering wheel torque sensor to determine driver presence. This leads to false negatives (my hands are on the wheel but not providing a turning force so the car gives an alert) and is easily bypassed (there are third party products that clip on to the steering wheel and provide enough weight to fool the system). Competing systems (SuperCruise, BMW) use driver monitor cameras or capacitive wheel sensors to provide a better indication of driver attentiveness.

enahs-sf 6y ago
It would be a huge improvement (and a weight off my shoulders as a driver) if the car could show you the confidence level it has in the current road situation. Eg. I took a tesla through the snow, and I wouldn't trust autopilot with my life in that situation, but when driving on 80 towards tahoe during the summer, it's a godsend.
natch 6y ago
>no other disclaimers about the limitations No other disclaimers? Are we reading the same page you linked? The title of the page clearly says “Future of Driving” “Autopilot today and full self-driving capabilities in the future...“ The page then goes on to define what Autopilot is and concludes with this: “Current Autopilot features require active driver supervision and do not make the vehicle autonomous.”

ummonk 6y ago

Even "autosteer" is more commonly called "lane centering" by the industry. A term that provides much more clarity to the user.

dheera 6y ago

> They should have called it "CoPilot" I agree with this fully, although the reality now is if Tesla used this name Ford might sue them.

KKKKkkkk1 6y ago

Elon is a master of saying something that's technically correct, but sounds like something completely different, something that people want to believe and is completely untrue. So the car has "full self-driving capability" but is not actually self driving. The "basic functionality for L5 will be done this year" but not actual self driving [0]. Autopilot branding comes from the same strategy. [0] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-tesla-autonomous/tesla-very-close-to-level-5-autonomous-driving-technology-musk-says-idUSKBN24A0HE https://www.reuters.com/article/us-tesla-autonomous/tesla-ve...

vkou 6y ago

> Tesla goofed from the beginning It's wasn't a 'whoopsie daisies we goofed up'. It was a cynical play for market share.

outworlder 6y ago

> Tesla goofed from the beginning by calling tech like "Autosteer" and "Traffic Assisted Cruise Control" under the moniker "Autopilot" Aviation autopilots can do even less than that and yet they are still called "autopilot". Altitude hold? That's autopilot. Also, "copilots" are generally fully capable of flying the aircraft and have the exact same capabilities. If you are irked about the 'autopilot' moniker, then ditch aviation terminology entirely.

altacc 6y ago
Putting aside that modern plane autopilots can also navigate and land planes, the common definition of words is often more important than the technical definition. Especially when it comes to marketing to the general public. Terminology gets reused because it has a common usage and somebody wants to use that to frame their new & shiny product. Ask a normal person what they think autopilot does and they'll say "the plane flys by itself". Using that for cars becomes "the car drives itself". Same for copilot, most people probably think they're there to help the pilot.

dwighttk 6y ago

With a copilot the pilot can go to the bathroom or go to sleep. Or die. Copilots are autonomous.

DenisM 6y ago

In aviation the auto-pilot is a relatively dumb machine that must be supervised, whereas a co-pilot is a human that could be trusted with full operations of the aircraft. I find it rather droll that the common use of the words completely inverted the original meaning.

dlp211 6y ago
It likely inverted because vehicles don't come with two sets of steering instruments and therefore co-pilot/driver means something else in the driving world.
- OnlyForF1 6y ago
  A co-driver in the driving world is either a Rally co-pilot who gives extremely detailed navigation instructions or someone who will literally get into the drivers seat to relieve the duties of the other driver on long road trips. It's a much more involved process than what an airplane autopilot can do.
  - dlp211 6y ago
    Yes, in racing, not in everyday driving.

whitexn--g28h 6y ago

There is precedent for using the word auto-pilot[1], even in a plane the pilots are required to pay attention. It’s only the deceptive claims of the system’s ability that should be banned. 1. https://www.curbsideclassic.com/blog/history/automotive-history-capsule-chryslers-1958-auto-pilot-56-years-before-teslas-autopilot/ https://www.curbsideclassic.com/blog/history/automotive-hist...

OliverJones 6y ago

I too have a Tesla vehicle, and I too agree with this German regulator's decision. You CAN'T climb from the driver's seat to the back seat and take a nap while the car is running. And that's because lane holding and adaptive cruise control are not reliable enough. "Autopilot" is deceptive. In aviation, it's hard to engage an autopilot until you have a desired altitude, heading, and speed. And that's in the sky, far from guard rails and hopefully far from other traffic. Oh, and by the way, before you do any of that you have to go to school, pass a rigorous practical test, get your hands on an airplane with autopilot, put fuel in it, get cleared for taxi, takeoff, climbout and cruise. There are some hurdles to jump over. I wish they had used some other word to brand this stuff. And, they've been saying "Level 5 this year" for a few years now. This is the kind of hype that got us the "AI Winter" back in the 1970s. Let's not go there again.

OnlyForF1 6y ago
>You CAN'T climb from the driver's seat to the back seat and take a nap You can't do this with an aircraft autopilot either, there must always be a human pilot ready to take over at a moment's notice.

mikelyons 6y ago

This is how evolution works though, he described it himself. "There will be death, there will be some outcry, and [regulation will step in to move the evolution in the direction of absolute Good] ..."

themantra514 6y ago

It's about stonk. Elon became a master at low key commenting on features "soon to be released" and on the "verge of" but those comments are non binding. You know what those comments do? They become nudges for stonk buyers who want to get in on the deal early before the features are released & the stonk price goes higher. Yeah, Elon knows how to make potential investors go crazy with the "buy low and sell high" fomo; Just read his Twitter feed filled with carrots on the proverbial stick. Oh Elon, you cheeky, cheeky bastard :) TTYl everybody, gotta go catch my robo taxi! opens Waymo on smartphone PS: Never forget, Martin Eberhard and Marc Tarpenning were the original Tesla visionaries, Elon pretty much just bought his way into the vision...and pushed out Martin Eberhard.

darkerside 6y ago

What I've realized is that Elon Musk simply puts less value on individual human lives than most others do. I don't mean that quite as harshly as it comes off, but it does seem that Elon likely believes the world would be a better place if all of the "dumbest" people were allowed to get themselves killed, allowing the rest of the human race to move forward. He may have a point, but I can't go down that path with him.

andrepd 6y ago

I didn't even realise that was all that the touted "Tesla Autopilot" did, so much was the hype around the internet. My 20k car does the same then (lane keeping + auto emergency braking).