6 ms·

I'm sure the telcos have statistics to validate this system, but it seems to completely oppose my own personal experiences. I have never phoned customer suppor

by KMnO4 6y ago

I'm sure the telcos have statistics to validate this system, but it seems to completely oppose my own personal experiences. I have never phoned customer support to: - View my account details (available online) - Find out about new plans and promos (available online) - Pay my bill (available online) - etc (available online) I have only phoned customer support to: - Negotiate a better rate (requires a human) - Argue about excess charges on my bill (requires a human) - Get put on a off-market plan (ie loyalty, retention, etc -- requires a human) I guess if there really are that many people phoning support with trivial questions, a voice assistant will free up the phone line for people who actually need a human. I suspect it won't, as they'll reduce the number of support employees accordingly.

importantbrian 6y ago
I have some experience in this area and the volume of these kinds of calls in a typical call center is substantial. Especially if your customer demographic is older.
kevinmgranger 6y ago
Every thing you listed that requires a human also results in them making less money. It's no coincidence that these systems make getting to those points harder and harder.
- thesuitonym 6y ago
  Keeping a customer by giving them a discount actually earns you more money that losing a customer by being difficult.
  - quantified 6y ago
    Not an issue for your cable company.
  - grahamburger 6y ago
    But you have to talk to a human to cancel too! Checkmate!
    - tialaramex 6y ago
      It's common in Europe (maybe an EU harmonised regulation?) to require that if you can sign up from a web site then you can also cancel from a web site. The one time I've talked to a human to cancel a service, it was Three and it was a pleasant surprise because although their retentions team did end up keeping me I got a huge discount over not only what I was paying before, but compared to the competitor I was leaving them for. I have no idea how it's even profitable to give me service at the current price, maybe it isn't and just drives somebody's retention-based bonus?
      - grahamburger 6y ago
        > to require that if you can sign up from a web site then you can also cancel from a web site. This is unfortunately not a freedom we enjoy in the US. I recently changed my car insurance provider to a much cheaper one bundled with my home insurance. I called to cancel the old one and talked to the rep for like an hour. He didn't even really try to save my account, made a few half-ass efforts but mostly just chatted. It was early in the pandemic lock down and I didn't have anything else to do anyway so I just talked to the guy for a while. A month later I notice another charge from them. Turns out he just ... didn't cancel it. I think he kept me on the phone so long for plausible deniability if his call got audited, and then just marked me down as a retained customer. When I called to cancel the second time they did actually cancel and refund me back to the original cancel date, fortunately. This was Progressive.
        ethbro 6y ago
        Short circuit to most contact center retention flowcharts: "I'm moving overseas for an extended period of time." (Implication: to somewhere you don't offer service) "Where are you moving?" "I can't really say." Turns out, most service providers have an exclusion to their retention metrics, where "customer moving to location we don't offer service" is one of the few reasons to just process their cancellation request.
giancarlostoro 6y ago
If you're somehow locked out of your account you usually have to call to do all of those things. There's also still people who don't use the internet much, if at all.
throwaway0a5e 6y ago
>(available online) Try loading a modern web form over 3g. Try loading a modern web form on an Android <6.x device. Try loading a web form on a feature phone. Try loading a modern web form in BFE over a landline. For any transaction where you don't need a human and it's painful to use the internet walking through phone menus is a pretty good alternative. They only make it painful to speak to a human. For routine transactions they're basically like using a slow CLI where they give you the help without you asking.
- cosmojg 6y ago
  Sounds like we need to build better websites, and maybe cut back on the JavaScript.
jimmaswell 6y ago
I was trying to reach USPS about a subtle forwarding issue that takes someone knowledgeable to clear up and the system kept nagging me about online services and long spiels about the covid. Took a lot of menus and "are you really really really sure you want to talk to someone on the phone, for real?? (you horrible person you)" verifications to finally get to scheduling a call-back.
canadianwriter 6y ago
As someone who in a past life worked at a telco..... its insane how common those are. A HUGE part of my job was getting people to use the dang website! They work REALLY REALLY hard to get people to use the website. It's mostly older generations, they refuse to use a website for many of those basic things. A lot of it is an issue of trust, they just don't trust websites.
- lumost 6y ago
  Not going to lie, as a tech savy software engineer I often just phone telco's. Most of the time I'm calling because my internet is down and I can't go to the website. Or I'm calling because I forgot my password for a website used once every N years. 90% of the time I'm calling, I wouldn't expect the website to have the information I need. Looking at Comcast's website I'm not inclined to look around and find out.
- quantified 6y ago
  And when you don’t have an internet connection... which is why I might be calling in the first place. See the Comcast comment.
- Scoundreller 6y ago
  The problem is, the second they have my email address, they start spamming you. When they have to pay $0.62/message, it cuts down on the crap. I’m a member of a profession where you’re supposed to read all of their comms. Now that they’ve switched to email, they send way more crap that I have to sift through and I can’t block them.
  - Bjartr 6y ago
    > The problem is, the second they have my email address, they start spamming you. Being (arguably) legitimate companies, their unsubscribe links actually do work.
    - MarkSweep 6y ago
      Microsoft has a couple of newsletters that you can’t unsubscribe from unless you cancel the thing they are related to. For example, Windows 10 insiders, dec essentials, and I think some Azure thing. It’s really annoying.
nkskalyan 6y ago
Most of us HN'ers make use of websites to obtain information. There are lot of folks who still find it easier to make call instead of having to deal with the website UX.
mc32 6y ago
If you want a person, say the magic words, “I want to terminate the contract”. They’ll more often than not send you to a customer retention representative who has agency within the system.
cortesoft 6y ago
Of course a HN reader is comfortable online. Everyone commenting here is comfortable online (a very clear selection bias) There are a lot of people in this world (especially older people) who are used to doing everything over the phone, and don't know how to use the internet and don't want to learn. You are never going to encounter those people on an online forum, but they exist.
- MandieD 6y ago
  Like my 70-year-old dad. My late mom was a fairly competent PC user and liked her iPhone for texting and photos, but my dad never got comfortable. He doesn’t own a computer or smartphone, and cut the cord once he realized that DirecTV supplied sports, old movies and The Weather Channel for way less. If only I could convince him to ditch his $50/mo AT&T contract and let me buy him his preferred form of unlocked dumbphone... I’m worried for him as the presumption of an internet connection and some basic ability to use a website increases, especially for government services. One example I saw several years ago: The state of Texas switched to a centralized process of issuing birth certificate copies for things like passport applications. For people like us, it’s super convenient - answer some questions, pay $30 with a credit card, paper in hand in two weeks. For him, it was going to be: get librarian to print this form, mail in with copy of driver’s license along with $80 check, wait about 8 weeks. Needless to say, I ordered for him, explaining what information I was giving each step of the way.
cashew_nuts 6y ago
Created an account just to comment on this. I design, implement and support contact centers for a living (think Avaya, Cisco, etc..). For the past five years, we've been preparing ourselves through education and training for this omnichannel take over of voice. While other channels have taken some of the voice pie, it's not nearly as significant as those of us in this field thought it would. I've created chat bots, IVRs and everything in between for automation, and people absolutely hate it and simply want to talk to a human. Most customers push going to the website, but the problem is that a lot of people don't know how to navigate properly. To help this, a lot of customers implement co-browse into their chat solution, but that's only helped a little. We too are using Google's Dialogflow and I'll be looking to deploy my first one in a couple months - very promising compared to other solutions out there like Amazon Connects Lex Bot. Regardless, leaders and technology evangelists in this field still preach that by 2025, the overall percentage of the pie for voice will end up being about 15%. But they emphasize that those humans who make up the 15% will be the most important in the customer service/support space.
- strin 6y ago
  > Regardless, leaders and technology evangelists in this field still preach that by 2025, the overall percentage of the pie for voice will end up being about 15%. What data points is this prediction based on?
- mysterydip 6y ago
  Instead of blaming the customer for not being able to navigate properly, maybe the website should be built more intuitively?
  - aahhahahaaa 6y ago
    Computer literacy is often vastly overrated, especially by people in tech. >In total, across the OECD countries, 26% of adults were unable to use a computer. https://www.nngroup.com/articles/computer-skill-levels/ https://www.nngroup.com/articles/computer-skill-levels/ I've worked for companies with large call centers, and anecdotally I don't have a single doubt about it. To close this gap computers need to be easier to use... these people aren't even at a skill level where they can reach the web.

by KMnO4 6y ago

importantbrian 6y ago

I have some experience in this area and the volume of these kinds of calls in a typical call center is substantial. Especially if your customer demographic is older.

kevinmgranger 6y ago

Every thing you listed that requires a human also results in them making less money. It's no coincidence that these systems make getting to those points harder and harder.

thesuitonym 6y ago
Keeping a customer by giving them a discount actually earns you more money that losing a customer by being difficult.
- quantified 6y ago
  Not an issue for your cable company.
- grahamburger 6y ago
  But you have to talk to a human to cancel too! Checkmate!
  - tialaramex 6y ago
    It's common in Europe (maybe an EU harmonised regulation?) to require that if you can sign up from a web site then you can also cancel from a web site. The one time I've talked to a human to cancel a service, it was Three and it was a pleasant surprise because although their retentions team did end up keeping me I got a huge discount over not only what I was paying before, but compared to the competitor I was leaving them for. I have no idea how it's even profitable to give me service at the current price, maybe it isn't and just drives somebody's retention-based bonus?
    - grahamburger 6y ago
      > to require that if you can sign up from a web site then you can also cancel from a web site. This is unfortunately not a freedom we enjoy in the US. I recently changed my car insurance provider to a much cheaper one bundled with my home insurance. I called to cancel the old one and talked to the rep for like an hour. He didn't even really try to save my account, made a few half-ass efforts but mostly just chatted. It was early in the pandemic lock down and I didn't have anything else to do anyway so I just talked to the guy for a while. A month later I notice another charge from them. Turns out he just ... didn't cancel it. I think he kept me on the phone so long for plausible deniability if his call got audited, and then just marked me down as a retained customer. When I called to cancel the second time they did actually cancel and refund me back to the original cancel date, fortunately. This was Progressive.
      - ethbro 6y ago
        Short circuit to most contact center retention flowcharts: "I'm moving overseas for an extended period of time." (Implication: to somewhere you don't offer service) "Where are you moving?" "I can't really say." Turns out, most service providers have an exclusion to their retention metrics, where "customer moving to location we don't offer service" is one of the few reasons to just process their cancellation request.

giancarlostoro 6y ago

If you're somehow locked out of your account you usually have to call to do all of those things. There's also still people who don't use the internet much, if at all.

throwaway0a5e 6y ago

>(available online) Try loading a modern web form over 3g. Try loading a modern web form on an Android <6.x device. Try loading a web form on a feature phone. Try loading a modern web form in BFE over a landline. For any transaction where you don't need a human and it's painful to use the internet walking through phone menus is a pretty good alternative. They only make it painful to speak to a human. For routine transactions they're basically like using a slow CLI where they give you the help without you asking.

cosmojg 6y ago
Sounds like we need to build better websites, and maybe cut back on the JavaScript.

jimmaswell 6y ago

I was trying to reach USPS about a subtle forwarding issue that takes someone knowledgeable to clear up and the system kept nagging me about online services and long spiels about the covid. Took a lot of menus and "are you really really really sure you want to talk to someone on the phone, for real?? (you horrible person you)" verifications to finally get to scheduling a call-back.

canadianwriter 6y ago

As someone who in a past life worked at a telco..... its insane how common those are. A HUGE part of my job was getting people to use the dang website! They work REALLY REALLY hard to get people to use the website. It's mostly older generations, they refuse to use a website for many of those basic things. A lot of it is an issue of trust, they just don't trust websites.

lumost 6y ago
Not going to lie, as a tech savy software engineer I often just phone telco's. Most of the time I'm calling because my internet is down and I can't go to the website. Or I'm calling because I forgot my password for a website used once every N years. 90% of the time I'm calling, I wouldn't expect the website to have the information I need. Looking at Comcast's website I'm not inclined to look around and find out.
quantified 6y ago
And when you don’t have an internet connection... which is why I might be calling in the first place. See the Comcast comment.
Scoundreller 6y ago
The problem is, the second they have my email address, they start spamming you. When they have to pay $0.62/message, it cuts down on the crap. I’m a member of a profession where you’re supposed to read all of their comms. Now that they’ve switched to email, they send way more crap that I have to sift through and I can’t block them.
- Bjartr 6y ago
  > The problem is, the second they have my email address, they start spamming you. Being (arguably) legitimate companies, their unsubscribe links actually do work.
  - MarkSweep 6y ago
    Microsoft has a couple of newsletters that you can’t unsubscribe from unless you cancel the thing they are related to. For example, Windows 10 insiders, dec essentials, and I think some Azure thing. It’s really annoying.

nkskalyan 6y ago

Most of us HN'ers make use of websites to obtain information. There are lot of folks who still find it easier to make call instead of having to deal with the website UX.

mc32 6y ago

If you want a person, say the magic words, “I want to terminate the contract”. They’ll more often than not send you to a customer retention representative who has agency within the system.

cortesoft 6y ago

Of course a HN reader is comfortable online. Everyone commenting here is comfortable online (a very clear selection bias) There are a lot of people in this world (especially older people) who are used to doing everything over the phone, and don't know how to use the internet and don't want to learn. You are never going to encounter those people on an online forum, but they exist.

MandieD 6y ago
Like my 70-year-old dad. My late mom was a fairly competent PC user and liked her iPhone for texting and photos, but my dad never got comfortable. He doesn’t own a computer or smartphone, and cut the cord once he realized that DirecTV supplied sports, old movies and The Weather Channel for way less. If only I could convince him to ditch his $50/mo AT&T contract and let me buy him his preferred form of unlocked dumbphone... I’m worried for him as the presumption of an internet connection and some basic ability to use a website increases, especially for government services. One example I saw several years ago: The state of Texas switched to a centralized process of issuing birth certificate copies for things like passport applications. For people like us, it’s super convenient - answer some questions, pay $30 with a credit card, paper in hand in two weeks. For him, it was going to be: get librarian to print this form, mail in with copy of driver’s license along with $80 check, wait about 8 weeks. Needless to say, I ordered for him, explaining what information I was giving each step of the way.

cashew_nuts 6y ago

Created an account just to comment on this. I design, implement and support contact centers for a living (think Avaya, Cisco, etc..). For the past five years, we've been preparing ourselves through education and training for this omnichannel take over of voice. While other channels have taken some of the voice pie, it's not nearly as significant as those of us in this field thought it would. I've created chat bots, IVRs and everything in between for automation, and people absolutely hate it and simply want to talk to a human. Most customers push going to the website, but the problem is that a lot of people don't know how to navigate properly. To help this, a lot of customers implement co-browse into their chat solution, but that's only helped a little. We too are using Google's Dialogflow and I'll be looking to deploy my first one in a couple months - very promising compared to other solutions out there like Amazon Connects Lex Bot. Regardless, leaders and technology evangelists in this field still preach that by 2025, the overall percentage of the pie for voice will end up being about 15%. But they emphasize that those humans who make up the 15% will be the most important in the customer service/support space.

strin 6y ago
> Regardless, leaders and technology evangelists in this field still preach that by 2025, the overall percentage of the pie for voice will end up being about 15%. What data points is this prediction based on?
mysterydip 6y ago
Instead of blaming the customer for not being able to navigate properly, maybe the website should be built more intuitively?
- aahhahahaaa 6y ago
  Computer literacy is often vastly overrated, especially by people in tech. >In total, across the OECD countries, 26% of adults were unable to use a computer. https://www.nngroup.com/articles/computer-skill-levels/ https://www.nngroup.com/articles/computer-skill-levels/ I've worked for companies with large call centers, and anecdotally I don't have a single doubt about it. To close this gap computers need to be easier to use... these people aren't even at a skill level where they can reach the web.