10 ms·

Redis Core Team Update

102 points by itamarhaber 6y ago

yjftsjthsd-h 6y ago
So that at least looks like good news. Hope they can make this transition work smoothly!
antirez 6y ago
Both Madelyn and Zhao are terrific programmers. In case you wonder, they are not random people put there for reasons, like for example since Madelyn is a woman so there was some pressure to add she. She deserves this 100% and is one of the top Redis contributors of the last times, with deep technical knowledge in basically every aspect of Redis. The same for Zhao, he is simply impressive, can track bugs about complex conditions like almost nobody can. I'm happy to see them aboard. Btw they were both effectively part of the informal "core team" that was forming spontaneously in the recent times.
- the-dude 6y ago
  As a non-native English speaker, I am always thrown off by the word terrific. It sounds horrible to me, and apparently it can also mean very bad. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/terrific https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/terrific
  - MiroF 6y ago
    > it can also mean very bad this usage is definitely uncommon/archaic
  - antirez 6y ago
    Yep it's the same in italian, it means "generating strong fear" or alike. But at this point I got accustomed to the English meaning when I write English.
  - travmatt 6y ago
    I was interested enough in the etymology to do some googling; terrific has its roots in ‘terror’, much like horror/horrific. It was used as a generic intensifier, often hyperbolically, which became common enough that it lost its negative connotation. https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/56865/why-does-terrible-mean-bad-and-terrific-mean-good https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/56865/why-does-terrible-...
  - xeromal 6y ago
    Awesome is a similar word. It used to mean awe-inspiring, but now can simply describe an enjoyable bowel movement. lol
    - bryanlarsen 6y ago
      The original meaning of awful used to be awe-inspiring too. Awesome came about as a replacement when awful started acquiring significant negative connotations.
  - mellosouls 6y ago
    I don't remember hearing it used in that way before; I think you would have to go back a couple of centuries for that usage. You can be confident that you won't need that definition in your own usage unless you decide to write an 18th century character or something. To add to the etymology links (I was also intrigued): https://www.grammarphobia.com/blog/2013/08/terror-terrific.html https://www.grammarphobia.com/blog/2013/08/terror-terrific.h...
    - pfranz 6y ago
      I always think of the famous Hindenburg crash tape. "it's a terrific crash" 1937 for those, like me, that weren't sure of the decade. https://genius.com/Herbert-morrison-hindenburg-disaster-broadcast-oh-the-humanity-annotated https://genius.com/Herbert-morrison-hindenburg-disaster-broa...
      - mellosouls 6y ago
        Sure - but that is "terrific" in the still-current sense of "massive, of great size" - not the archaic use in the parent.
        pfranz 6y ago
        The only reason I remember that use is because it sounded out of place to me. This posting [1] puts the usage change from around 1880-1930. I've always taken the modern usage to mean unusually fine/magnificent. [1] https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/38606/what-gave-terrific-a-positive-connotation https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/38606/what-gave-...
- sdesol 6y ago
  You certainly leave some big shoes to fill, as shown in the quick stats below: https://imgur.com/QUPER9q https://imgur.com/QUPER9q https://imgur.com/RnlzECa https://imgur.com/RnlzECa but like you say, these aren't nobodies. However, I am curious to see how the pace will change (if at all), with you no longer doing the lion share of work.
  - atombender 6y ago
    What site are those screenshots from?
    - sdesol 6y ago
      It's a product that I'm working on, which is focused on developer first metrics. I want to create software metrics, that developers can trust, which in turn can be used to properly gauge productivity and risk. I've studied software metrics for quite sometime and they are widely despised by developers, because they are a) not useful for developers b) never put effort into context that can be discussed, vetted and refined. What I'm trying to do is fix the stigma associated with software metrics, by focusing on how they can be used by developers. For example, code churn metrics can be used in a positive way for developers as the following example shows: https://imgur.com/OMD8rFF https://imgur.com/OMD8rFF Without looking a single line of code, you can estimate the impact each commit will have, which can be useful for domain experts, team leaders, etc. I'm hoping to have a version of the product that people can install via docker or on bare metal linux by the end of this month.
      - ricardobeat 6y ago
        That looks amazing! Is there a way to subscribe to updates / releases?
        sdesol 6y ago
        Hey thanks for the interest. Unfortunately I don't have an automated way to sign up (my focus really is on the technology as it's not trivial), but if you send me an email (see profile), I can add you to my list.
- miked85 6y ago
  > In case you wonder, they are not random people put there for reasons, like for example since Madelyn is a woman so there was some pressure to add she Kind of a strange thing to call out.
  - eropple 6y ago
    Tech's got plenty of the pince-nez set who would Just Ask Questions about a core contributor getting their spot for those reasons. Can't blame him for being proactive about nipping them in the bud.
  - phroobster 6y ago
    These are the times we live in. Thanks to widespread racist/sexist hiring practices, every time I see a woman or minority in an upper level position I can’t help but wonder if they are there because someone wanted to fill a diversity quota. The thought never even crossed my mind 10 years ago.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - majormajor 6y ago
      This is a bizarre claim. People getting labeled as "diversity hires" and being assumed to be less competent than their peers is a decades-old thing. It wasn't even a particularly new observation when South Park literally named a character after it almost 25 years ago. (Probably many of the same people getting labeled that way for holding high-level positions today were similarly judged in their entry-level positions back then! But if people are no longer suspicious of women or minorities in "regular" roles and resume their judgement for upper-level roles, I guess that's a change in the right direction, at least. :| )
      - asveikau 6y ago
- rurban 6y ago
  I know Zhao Zhao personally. He is one of the very best. Better than antirez IMHO.
derefr 6y ago
Interesting move, putting “SLA-driven” infrastructure engineers (i.e. people working at public clouds to deliver Redis-as-a-Service solutions) in charge of the project. (Not just these two from AWS and Alibaba Cloud, but the rest being from Redis Labs.) It seems like, for one reason or another (Redis Labs because they want to sell their “core plus proprietary modules” service; the clouds because they want to push you to use their other products for use-cases that fit them better), all the new leadership has reason to want to not add any more developer-facing features to Redis Core. I expect the Redis Core you see right now, is the same Redis Core we’ll have 10 years from now, client-API wise. Redis, as a USP, is “done.” Unless, that is, some third-party comes in with their own polished feature PR, and pushes really hard for it. In other words, Redis is kind of moving to the Linux kernel model, where “new use-case out of nowhere” features come in mostly not from internal development, but rather from external contributors petitioning the core-maintainership priesthood with reasons their patch should be upstreamed. Either way, there’ll certainly continue to be plenty of ops-staff-facing innovations, bug-fixes and polish. That’s what gets this new core team up in the morning. I’m sure people running Redis in production are happy about that.
- asperous 6y ago
  True but I think thats the most skeptical viewpoint possible. 1. Those orgs succeed when redis succeeds. So they want to see it used more which means more features. 2. Developers think for themselves and aren't always "double agents". 3. The redis community still exists and open source communities are often very vocal about directing products
  - cperciva 6y ago
    2. Developers think for themselves and aren't always "double agents". I don't think the situation is quite as binary as this suggests. Even assuming that developers are consistently doing what they believe is in the best interest of the project, their employers may benefit from being able to encourage them to consider the items which are the employer's priorities. Developers don't have unlimited time, and if they have to choose between two worthwhile projects and one of them is of interest to their employer, it's likely that's the one they'll spend time on.
swagonomixxx 6y ago
What will be interesting to see is how Redis fares without Antirez. He was the heart and soul of the project. It also makes me think, what would Linux be when Linus decides to step away? I kind of don't want to think about it. Thank you to Antirez for all your hard work on Redis.
- johnfn 6y ago
  One of my favorite bits of trivia: What would Git be like if Linus stepped away? Oh yeah, he stepped away after a few months and Junio Hamano continued running it for the next 15 years[1] (!!). [1]: https://github.com/git/git/graphs/contributors https://github.com/git/git/graphs/contributors
  - sdesol 6y ago
    I'm not sure what your point is. Antirez has been contributing to redis for over 11 years and accounts for 80% of all its code churn. https://imgur.com/RnlzECa https://imgur.com/RnlzECa In just the last 90 days, he accounted for 50% of the code that is being changed in redis. I'm currently indexing the Git repository, as I'm curious to see the impact Linus had before he left, but I don't think Linus leaving, is anything like antirez leaving. Sorry if this post comes of confrontational, as that is not its intention. I just don't understand what comparison you are trying to make.
    - quietbritishjim 6y ago
      I think they were replying to a different bit of the parent comment than you seem to think: > ... what would Linux be when Linus decides to step away?
      - swagonomixxx 6y ago
        I think it was a fair reply. Linus's contributions to Git, while basically 100% of the project initially, were not sustained over as long as Antirez's contributions to Redis.
  - 6y ago
seemslegit 6y ago
As with Yossi and Oran vis-a-vis Redis labs, it is not clear whether Madelyn and Zhao are in the core team in their personal capacities or as representatives of Amazon and Alibaba respectively, we know that Redis labs reserves the right to name replacements for Yossi and Oran, is the same true for Madelyn and Zhao and their current employers ?

102 points by itamarhaber 6y ago

So that at least looks like good news. Hope they can make this transition work smoothly!

Both Madelyn and Zhao are terrific programmers. In case you wonder, they are not random people put there for reasons, like for example since Madelyn is a woman so there was some pressure to add she. She deserves this 100% and is one of the top Redis contributors of the last times, with deep technical knowledge in basically every aspect of Redis. The same for Zhao, he is simply impressive, can track bugs about complex conditions like almost nobody can. I'm happy to see them aboard. Btw they were both effectively part of the informal "core team" that was forming spontaneously in the recent times.

the-dude 6y ago
As a non-native English speaker, I am always thrown off by the word terrific. It sounds horrible to me, and apparently it can also mean very bad. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/terrific https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/terrific
- MiroF 6y ago
  > it can also mean very bad this usage is definitely uncommon/archaic
- antirez 6y ago
  Yep it's the same in italian, it means "generating strong fear" or alike. But at this point I got accustomed to the English meaning when I write English.
- travmatt 6y ago
  I was interested enough in the etymology to do some googling; terrific has its roots in ‘terror’, much like horror/horrific. It was used as a generic intensifier, often hyperbolically, which became common enough that it lost its negative connotation. https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/56865/why-does-terrible-mean-bad-and-terrific-mean-good https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/56865/why-does-terrible-...
- xeromal 6y ago
  Awesome is a similar word. It used to mean awe-inspiring, but now can simply describe an enjoyable bowel movement. lol
  - bryanlarsen 6y ago
    The original meaning of awful used to be awe-inspiring too. Awesome came about as a replacement when awful started acquiring significant negative connotations.
- mellosouls 6y ago
  I don't remember hearing it used in that way before; I think you would have to go back a couple of centuries for that usage. You can be confident that you won't need that definition in your own usage unless you decide to write an 18th century character or something. To add to the etymology links (I was also intrigued): https://www.grammarphobia.com/blog/2013/08/terror-terrific.html https://www.grammarphobia.com/blog/2013/08/terror-terrific.h...
  - pfranz 6y ago
    I always think of the famous Hindenburg crash tape. "it's a terrific crash" 1937 for those, like me, that weren't sure of the decade. https://genius.com/Herbert-morrison-hindenburg-disaster-broadcast-oh-the-humanity-annotated https://genius.com/Herbert-morrison-hindenburg-disaster-broa...
    - mellosouls 6y ago
      Sure - but that is "terrific" in the still-current sense of "massive, of great size" - not the archaic use in the parent.
      - pfranz 6y ago
        The only reason I remember that use is because it sounded out of place to me. This posting [1] puts the usage change from around 1880-1930. I've always taken the modern usage to mean unusually fine/magnificent. [1] https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/38606/what-gave-terrific-a-positive-connotation https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/38606/what-gave-...
sdesol 6y ago
You certainly leave some big shoes to fill, as shown in the quick stats below: https://imgur.com/QUPER9q https://imgur.com/QUPER9q https://imgur.com/RnlzECa https://imgur.com/RnlzECa but like you say, these aren't nobodies. However, I am curious to see how the pace will change (if at all), with you no longer doing the lion share of work.
- atombender 6y ago
  What site are those screenshots from?
  - sdesol 6y ago
    It's a product that I'm working on, which is focused on developer first metrics. I want to create software metrics, that developers can trust, which in turn can be used to properly gauge productivity and risk. I've studied software metrics for quite sometime and they are widely despised by developers, because they are a) not useful for developers b) never put effort into context that can be discussed, vetted and refined. What I'm trying to do is fix the stigma associated with software metrics, by focusing on how they can be used by developers. For example, code churn metrics can be used in a positive way for developers as the following example shows: https://imgur.com/OMD8rFF https://imgur.com/OMD8rFF Without looking a single line of code, you can estimate the impact each commit will have, which can be useful for domain experts, team leaders, etc. I'm hoping to have a version of the product that people can install via docker or on bare metal linux by the end of this month.
    - ricardobeat 6y ago
      That looks amazing! Is there a way to subscribe to updates / releases?
      - sdesol 6y ago
        Hey thanks for the interest. Unfortunately I don't have an automated way to sign up (my focus really is on the technology as it's not trivial), but if you send me an email (see profile), I can add you to my list.
miked85 6y ago
> In case you wonder, they are not random people put there for reasons, like for example since Madelyn is a woman so there was some pressure to add she Kind of a strange thing to call out.
- eropple 6y ago
  Tech's got plenty of the pince-nez set who would Just Ask Questions about a core contributor getting their spot for those reasons. Can't blame him for being proactive about nipping them in the bud.
- phroobster 6y ago
  These are the times we live in. Thanks to widespread racist/sexist hiring practices, every time I see a woman or minority in an upper level position I can’t help but wonder if they are there because someone wanted to fill a diversity quota. The thought never even crossed my mind 10 years ago.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - majormajor 6y ago
    This is a bizarre claim. People getting labeled as "diversity hires" and being assumed to be less competent than their peers is a decades-old thing. It wasn't even a particularly new observation when South Park literally named a character after it almost 25 years ago. (Probably many of the same people getting labeled that way for holding high-level positions today were similarly judged in their entry-level positions back then! But if people are no longer suspicious of women or minorities in "regular" roles and resume their judgement for upper-level roles, I guess that's a change in the right direction, at least. :| )
    - asveikau 6y ago
rurban 6y ago
I know Zhao Zhao personally. He is one of the very best. Better than antirez IMHO.

derefr 6y ago

Interesting move, putting “SLA-driven” infrastructure engineers (i.e. people working at public clouds to deliver Redis-as-a-Service solutions) in charge of the project. (Not just these two from AWS and Alibaba Cloud, but the rest being from Redis Labs.) It seems like, for one reason or another (Redis Labs because they want to sell their “core plus proprietary modules” service; the clouds because they want to push you to use their other products for use-cases that fit them better), all the new leadership has reason to want to not add any more developer-facing features to Redis Core. I expect the Redis Core you see right now, is the same Redis Core we’ll have 10 years from now, client-API wise. Redis, as a USP, is “done.” Unless, that is, some third-party comes in with their own polished feature PR, and pushes really hard for it. In other words, Redis is kind of moving to the Linux kernel model, where “new use-case out of nowhere” features come in mostly not from internal development, but rather from external contributors petitioning the core-maintainership priesthood with reasons their patch should be upstreamed. Either way, there’ll certainly continue to be plenty of ops-staff-facing innovations, bug-fixes and polish. That’s what gets this new core team up in the morning. I’m sure people running Redis in production are happy about that.

asperous 6y ago
True but I think thats the most skeptical viewpoint possible. 1. Those orgs succeed when redis succeeds. So they want to see it used more which means more features. 2. Developers think for themselves and aren't always "double agents". 3. The redis community still exists and open source communities are often very vocal about directing products
- cperciva 6y ago
  2. Developers think for themselves and aren't always "double agents". I don't think the situation is quite as binary as this suggests. Even assuming that developers are consistently doing what they believe is in the best interest of the project, their employers may benefit from being able to encourage them to consider the items which are the employer's priorities. Developers don't have unlimited time, and if they have to choose between two worthwhile projects and one of them is of interest to their employer, it's likely that's the one they'll spend time on.

swagonomixxx 6y ago

What will be interesting to see is how Redis fares without Antirez. He was the heart and soul of the project. It also makes me think, what would Linux be when Linus decides to step away? I kind of don't want to think about it. Thank you to Antirez for all your hard work on Redis.

johnfn 6y ago
One of my favorite bits of trivia: What would Git be like if Linus stepped away? Oh yeah, he stepped away after a few months and Junio Hamano continued running it for the next 15 years[1] (!!). [1]: https://github.com/git/git/graphs/contributors https://github.com/git/git/graphs/contributors
- sdesol 6y ago
  I'm not sure what your point is. Antirez has been contributing to redis for over 11 years and accounts for 80% of all its code churn. https://imgur.com/RnlzECa https://imgur.com/RnlzECa In just the last 90 days, he accounted for 50% of the code that is being changed in redis. I'm currently indexing the Git repository, as I'm curious to see the impact Linus had before he left, but I don't think Linus leaving, is anything like antirez leaving. Sorry if this post comes of confrontational, as that is not its intention. I just don't understand what comparison you are trying to make.
  - quietbritishjim 6y ago
    I think they were replying to a different bit of the parent comment than you seem to think: > ... what would Linux be when Linus decides to step away?
    - swagonomixxx 6y ago
      I think it was a fair reply. Linus's contributions to Git, while basically 100% of the project initially, were not sustained over as long as Antirez's contributions to Redis.
- 6y ago

seemslegit 6y ago

As with Yossi and Oran vis-a-vis Redis labs, it is not clear whether Madelyn and Zhao are in the core team in their personal capacities or as representatives of Amazon and Alibaba respectively, we know that Redis labs reserves the right to name replacements for Yossi and Oran, is the same true for Madelyn and Zhao and their current employers ?