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This may be a just factor of culture and attitude. In Germany, single use plastic bags have not been allowed in supermarkets for several years now and it has w

This may be a just factor of culture and attitude. In Germany, single use plastic bags have not been allowed in supermarkets for several years now and it has worked quite well IMO. Yes you can buy thicker re-usable bags (sometimes made out of textiles or a mixture of textiles and plastic) but by far many people bring their own bags, or just load the stuff into shopping trollies and take it to their cars (unfortunately the petrol/diesel car culture is still going strong :( ). Also, in places like Lidl and Aldi, it's quite normal to just look for an empty box of some product on the shelf(e.g. a box that had some canned goods) and use that as your 'basket', stuff your items there, pay, go home and dispose of the box in the paper recycle bin. EDIT: I also forgot to mention, as an example of culture/attitude: plastic bags are still available for fruit & vegetables but even then, people do make their own choice to just take the produce without a bag, and place it 'loose' at the cashier for them to weigh.

pbhjpbhj 6y ago
That describes the behaviour I see in the UK very closely. I wonder about supermarket food in particular. Most of it comes in at least one layer of single use plastic - I think plastic can be the right product, but it would need reusable plastics that are standardised and used across different companies products. A bit like how nearly all Chinese takeaways use a variant of a cheap but reusable plastic container (but they're not quite standardised, particularly the radius of the lid corners). I'd love to see say 20 different allowed packages, you return after use, they're cleaned (or recycled if damaged), and used for more food. No more half full tubs carefully concealed with labels! I wonder what the stats say vs GPs impressions of Austin?
- andrew_eit 6y ago
  Is it still common in the UK to find portioned or chopped servings of fruit, vegetables and food items in plastic packaging? I always found that a bit excessive, though convenient. This is something that I rarely see in Germany.
  - wiredfool 6y ago
    Ireland and the UK wrap all the Fruit and Veggies in more plastic than I've seen anywhere else. It's probably the biggest contributor to our waste stream in my house.
    - reaperducer 6y ago
      Visit a store in Japan. Piece of fruit wrapped in cling film, shrink-wrapped in plastic, tucked into a foam lattice, placed into a styrofoam mold, put in a box, wrapped in paper, then wrapped again by the shop, placed in a small bag that goes into a larger bag. Even as an American, I never really knew wastefulness until I started going to Japan.
  - nicoburns 6y ago
    It is common to have both options in the UK. Most people go for whole vegetables, and the chopped versions are seen as convenience options. Kinda half-way to a ready meal. You do also get whole vegetables in plastic packaging, but there has been a push to remove this. I believe one of the major supermarkets (Morrissons) has recently removed all plastic packaging from fresh produce.
mjevans 6y ago
I'd like to see a return of paper bags. That technology is very ecologically friendly. Really crummy paper bags for (dry) fresh food isolation, heavier re-usable for takeout and carry. It's nice to have bags to be able to give to others and forget about. Re-usable produce containers should be sold too, and I'd prefer if those were sold from a special part of the store so that consumers could pack in their own togo containers.
- gruez 6y ago
  > I'd like to see a return of paper bags. That technology is very ecologically friendly. How? Random search turned up >According to the previously cited U.K. study, it takes three reuses of a paper bag to neutralize its environmental impact, relative to plastic. A bag’s impact is more than just its associated carbon emissions: Manufacturing a paper bag requires about four times as much water as a plastic bag. Additionally, the fertilizers and other chemicals used in tree farming and paper manufacturing contribute to acid rain and eutrophication of waterways at higher rates. https://stanfordmag.org/contents/paper-plastic-or-reusable https://stanfordmag.org/contents/paper-plastic-or-reusable I guess you can argue that paper bags are compostable, but I'm not sure whether that matters much. Plastic bags that are sitting in the landfill doesn't harm the environment, and their bulk is negligible due to how thin/light they are.
  - toomuchtodo 6y ago
    Arguably, paper bags are "better" because they don't require petroleum to produce, and even if not reused can be burned in incinerators or plasma gasification waste disposal operations as part of the waste stream. If landfilled, any breakdown byproducts (biogas) are going to be captured and burned off (either flared, or the new hotness, burned for electricity). Trees sourced for wood pulp can be grown without fertilizer, and water is a renewable resource. Failing all of the above, it is unlikely used paper bags end up on barges destined for the developing world for recycling, only to be dumped into the ocean.
    - gruez 6y ago
      >Arguably, paper bags are "better" because they don't require petroleum to produce Is using petroleum intrinsically bad? There are externalities with oil extraction, but growing a monoculture of trees for paper isn't stellar for the environment either. Also, plastic is stronger than paper (on a mass basis), hence plastic bags can be thinner than paper bags, which also carry advantages. I feel people irrationally like paper bags because it's more "natural" than plastic. It's insufficient to judge whether plastic or paper is better for the environment just by coming up a list of bullet points. A total lifecycle cost analysis is needed. Of the literature I've seen, paper bags are not better for the environment overall than plastic. >Failing all of the above, it is unlikely used paper bags end up on barges destined for the developing world for recycling, only to be dumped into the ocean. addressed here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23763885 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23763885
pmh 6y ago
> Yes you can buy thicker re-usable bags (sometimes made out of textiles or a mixture of textiles and plastic) but by far many people bring their own bags This has been my experience shopping in Austin, but it may vary based on neighborhood. The vast majority bring their own reusable bags. Those that forget to bring bags buy the plastic reusable bags (unless the store also offers free paper bags).
victornomad 6y ago
I think the ban of plastic bags happened across Europe years ago. Still you can see them in many smaller supermarkets and other markets (not in Aldi, Netto, EDEKA, etc...) 1) What I find it funny is banning plastic bags but at the same time many of the "bio" veggies and fruits come in plastic packaging to prevent contamination and hijacking (sometimes between the producer and consumer non bio stuff is introduced and sold like so) 2) And the funniest thing is that single plastic use is banned in a first world country where most of the food products come from the other side of the world. The CO2 footprint here in Germany is one of the biggest in Europe... Sometimes it feels a bit of green-washing all this news

pbhjpbhj 6y ago

That describes the behaviour I see in the UK very closely. I wonder about supermarket food in particular. Most of it comes in at least one layer of single use plastic - I think plastic can be the right product, but it would need reusable plastics that are standardised and used across different companies products. A bit like how nearly all Chinese takeaways use a variant of a cheap but reusable plastic container (but they're not quite standardised, particularly the radius of the lid corners). I'd love to see say 20 different allowed packages, you return after use, they're cleaned (or recycled if damaged), and used for more food. No more half full tubs carefully concealed with labels! I wonder what the stats say vs GPs impressions of Austin?

andrew_eit 6y ago
Is it still common in the UK to find portioned or chopped servings of fruit, vegetables and food items in plastic packaging? I always found that a bit excessive, though convenient. This is something that I rarely see in Germany.
- wiredfool 6y ago
  Ireland and the UK wrap all the Fruit and Veggies in more plastic than I've seen anywhere else. It's probably the biggest contributor to our waste stream in my house.
  - reaperducer 6y ago
    Visit a store in Japan. Piece of fruit wrapped in cling film, shrink-wrapped in plastic, tucked into a foam lattice, placed into a styrofoam mold, put in a box, wrapped in paper, then wrapped again by the shop, placed in a small bag that goes into a larger bag. Even as an American, I never really knew wastefulness until I started going to Japan.
- nicoburns 6y ago
  It is common to have both options in the UK. Most people go for whole vegetables, and the chopped versions are seen as convenience options. Kinda half-way to a ready meal. You do also get whole vegetables in plastic packaging, but there has been a push to remove this. I believe one of the major supermarkets (Morrissons) has recently removed all plastic packaging from fresh produce.

mjevans 6y ago

I'd like to see a return of paper bags. That technology is very ecologically friendly. Really crummy paper bags for (dry) fresh food isolation, heavier re-usable for takeout and carry. It's nice to have bags to be able to give to others and forget about. Re-usable produce containers should be sold too, and I'd prefer if those were sold from a special part of the store so that consumers could pack in their own togo containers.

gruez 6y ago
> I'd like to see a return of paper bags. That technology is very ecologically friendly. How? Random search turned up >According to the previously cited U.K. study, it takes three reuses of a paper bag to neutralize its environmental impact, relative to plastic. A bag’s impact is more than just its associated carbon emissions: Manufacturing a paper bag requires about four times as much water as a plastic bag. Additionally, the fertilizers and other chemicals used in tree farming and paper manufacturing contribute to acid rain and eutrophication of waterways at higher rates. https://stanfordmag.org/contents/paper-plastic-or-reusable https://stanfordmag.org/contents/paper-plastic-or-reusable I guess you can argue that paper bags are compostable, but I'm not sure whether that matters much. Plastic bags that are sitting in the landfill doesn't harm the environment, and their bulk is negligible due to how thin/light they are.
- toomuchtodo 6y ago
  Arguably, paper bags are "better" because they don't require petroleum to produce, and even if not reused can be burned in incinerators or plasma gasification waste disposal operations as part of the waste stream. If landfilled, any breakdown byproducts (biogas) are going to be captured and burned off (either flared, or the new hotness, burned for electricity). Trees sourced for wood pulp can be grown without fertilizer, and water is a renewable resource. Failing all of the above, it is unlikely used paper bags end up on barges destined for the developing world for recycling, only to be dumped into the ocean.
  - gruez 6y ago
    >Arguably, paper bags are "better" because they don't require petroleum to produce Is using petroleum intrinsically bad? There are externalities with oil extraction, but growing a monoculture of trees for paper isn't stellar for the environment either. Also, plastic is stronger than paper (on a mass basis), hence plastic bags can be thinner than paper bags, which also carry advantages. I feel people irrationally like paper bags because it's more "natural" than plastic. It's insufficient to judge whether plastic or paper is better for the environment just by coming up a list of bullet points. A total lifecycle cost analysis is needed. Of the literature I've seen, paper bags are not better for the environment overall than plastic. >Failing all of the above, it is unlikely used paper bags end up on barges destined for the developing world for recycling, only to be dumped into the ocean. addressed here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23763885 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23763885

pmh 6y ago

> Yes you can buy thicker re-usable bags (sometimes made out of textiles or a mixture of textiles and plastic) but by far many people bring their own bags This has been my experience shopping in Austin, but it may vary based on neighborhood. The vast majority bring their own reusable bags. Those that forget to bring bags buy the plastic reusable bags (unless the store also offers free paper bags).

victornomad 6y ago

I think the ban of plastic bags happened across Europe years ago. Still you can see them in many smaller supermarkets and other markets (not in Aldi, Netto, EDEKA, etc...) 1) What I find it funny is banning plastic bags but at the same time many of the "bio" veggies and fruits come in plastic packaging to prevent contamination and hijacking (sometimes between the producer and consumer non bio stuff is introduced and sold like so) 2) And the funniest thing is that single plastic use is banned in a first world country where most of the food products come from the other side of the world. The CO2 footprint here in Germany is one of the biggest in Europe... Sometimes it feels a bit of green-washing all this news