6 ms·

Such pathetic leadership. International students already in the country must now either attend an in person class and risk their lives, or fly out from the coun

Such pathetic leadership. International students already in the country must now either attend an in person class and risk their lives, or fly out from the country with the highest number of infections and spread it to their friends and family at home. Not to mention the loss to the research community. I can’t see anything that is to be gained from this, other than pandering to a xenophobic voter base.

ciarannolan 6y ago
You may be interested in reading the president's thoughtful policy proposal here: https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1280209946085339136 https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/12802099460853391...
diogenescynic 6y ago
Are any universities even offering in person classes? I doubt it. This seems designed/intended to chase away immigrants.
- dragonwriter 6y ago
  > This seems designed/intended to chase away immigrants. No, it's designed to chase away non-immigrant student visa holders. But it's part of a broader set of policies designed to make the US hostile to foreigners, whether current visa holders, non-immigrants visa applicants, or immigrant visa applicants.
  - RhysU 6y ago
    Or, it could be designed to encourage universities to hold in person classes. In particular, to pressure those universities that have business models relying on foreign student tuition.
- Shebanator 6y ago
  Many universities are planning to have at least some of their classes be in-person this fall. My daughter was just admitted to Seattle U, and they expect her to be moving into her dorm in about a month. I am mostly expecting this to be cancelled, though.
tmoney9999 6y ago
Only possible good thing I can see from a US student perspective is that it's now more reasonable to go to grad school in US. Many programs in STEM have gotten out of hand with the number of the foreign graduate students--in some programs the number is over 80% [1]. I think this has led to the US educating many persons who later leave the country for visa issues. Also, some of the competition to get in can be considered bogus: near perfect GRE math which measures high school level math skills is hardly germane for research. https://www.insidehighered.com/quicktakes/2017/10/11/foreign-students-and-graduate-stem-enrollment https://www.insidehighered.com/quicktakes/2017/10/11/foreign...
- akiselev 6y ago
  I highly doubt that's what will happen. How many of these programs are dependent on foreign tuition? These aren't efficient institutions, mind you, so a downturn could lead to collapse of the weakest ones, leading to increase domestic competition at the remaining ones.
  - reaperducer 6y ago
    How many of these programs are dependent on foreign tuition? At least some are. And this is nothing new. When I went to college decades ago, I and a bunch of my friends got kicked out of our university at the end of the semester because it was over its legislatively-mandated limit for out-of-state students. The university had loaded up on lucrative international students in previous years, and when the ratio was changed, people like me got the heave-ho. The problem is that we have to remove the greed from the university administrators. But good luck with that.
  - tmoney9999 6y ago
    My comment was only considering graduate students, whom I think, are the group most affected by this change. Graduate students in STEM usually don't pay tuition--their lab pays the fees for them to be enrolled.
    - sukilot 6y ago
usaar333 6y ago
> or fly out from the country with the highest number of infections Are there exemptions in place for when it is difficult to actually return to country of origin? (e.g. it remains very difficult to fly into China)
- dsfdsfsdfasd 6y ago
  It's difficult, if not impossible, to fly to basically any country from the US. The EU is currently debating exemptions for spouses who have been separated, so I doubt they have exemptions for students. And even if the exemptions and all are sorted out, who thinks it's a great idea for a whole bunch of students to have to fly in what will now potentially be crowded planes, and then have to spend at least a couple of weeks in quarantine, for something that was not a choice of theirs at all. Also, as if the rental/retail market wasn't bad enough, especially in college towns many of which are single industry towns, this is gonna add to even more completely unnecessary and avoidable hardship. This is disastrous policy in every form, other than if youre someone who gets off on unnecessary cruelty.
  - mynameisvlad 6y ago
    In this case, the students would be returning home, and therefore be citizens of the country they are flying to. Generally speaking (including the EU, which you mentioned), citizens are exempt from the travel bans. Even during the quarantine, there were once-a-week flights to China from the US (https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/16/business/us-china-flights-intl-hnk/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/16/business/us-china-flights-int...) Not saying that these changes aren't horrible, they are, but I don't think getting home is impossible. Very difficult, in most cases yes.
  - Voloskaya 6y ago
    > The EU is currently debating exemptions for spouses who have been separated, so I doubt they have exemptions for students. Presumably, most students kicked out of the US would fly to their home countries where their status isn't "student". > who thinks it's a great idea [...] Most of Trump's voter base, sadly. Less immigrants in the U.S. is the only metric they care about.
pstuart 6y ago
It's not leadership.
x0x0 6y ago
> see anything that is to be gained from this Cruelty. Being publicly cruel.

ciarannolan 6y ago

You may be interested in reading the president's thoughtful policy proposal here: https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1280209946085339136 https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/12802099460853391...

diogenescynic 6y ago

Are any universities even offering in person classes? I doubt it. This seems designed/intended to chase away immigrants.

dragonwriter 6y ago
> This seems designed/intended to chase away immigrants. No, it's designed to chase away non-immigrant student visa holders. But it's part of a broader set of policies designed to make the US hostile to foreigners, whether current visa holders, non-immigrants visa applicants, or immigrant visa applicants.
- RhysU 6y ago
  Or, it could be designed to encourage universities to hold in person classes. In particular, to pressure those universities that have business models relying on foreign student tuition.
Shebanator 6y ago
Many universities are planning to have at least some of their classes be in-person this fall. My daughter was just admitted to Seattle U, and they expect her to be moving into her dorm in about a month. I am mostly expecting this to be cancelled, though.

tmoney9999 6y ago

Only possible good thing I can see from a US student perspective is that it's now more reasonable to go to grad school in US. Many programs in STEM have gotten out of hand with the number of the foreign graduate students--in some programs the number is over 80% [1]. I think this has led to the US educating many persons who later leave the country for visa issues. Also, some of the competition to get in can be considered bogus: near perfect GRE math which measures high school level math skills is hardly germane for research. https://www.insidehighered.com/quicktakes/2017/10/11/foreign-students-and-graduate-stem-enrollment https://www.insidehighered.com/quicktakes/2017/10/11/foreign...

akiselev 6y ago
I highly doubt that's what will happen. How many of these programs are dependent on foreign tuition? These aren't efficient institutions, mind you, so a downturn could lead to collapse of the weakest ones, leading to increase domestic competition at the remaining ones.
- reaperducer 6y ago
  How many of these programs are dependent on foreign tuition? At least some are. And this is nothing new. When I went to college decades ago, I and a bunch of my friends got kicked out of our university at the end of the semester because it was over its legislatively-mandated limit for out-of-state students. The university had loaded up on lucrative international students in previous years, and when the ratio was changed, people like me got the heave-ho. The problem is that we have to remove the greed from the university administrators. But good luck with that.
- tmoney9999 6y ago
  My comment was only considering graduate students, whom I think, are the group most affected by this change. Graduate students in STEM usually don't pay tuition--their lab pays the fees for them to be enrolled.
  - sukilot 6y ago

usaar333 6y ago

> or fly out from the country with the highest number of infections Are there exemptions in place for when it is difficult to actually return to country of origin? (e.g. it remains very difficult to fly into China)

dsfdsfsdfasd 6y ago
It's difficult, if not impossible, to fly to basically any country from the US. The EU is currently debating exemptions for spouses who have been separated, so I doubt they have exemptions for students. And even if the exemptions and all are sorted out, who thinks it's a great idea for a whole bunch of students to have to fly in what will now potentially be crowded planes, and then have to spend at least a couple of weeks in quarantine, for something that was not a choice of theirs at all. Also, as if the rental/retail market wasn't bad enough, especially in college towns many of which are single industry towns, this is gonna add to even more completely unnecessary and avoidable hardship. This is disastrous policy in every form, other than if youre someone who gets off on unnecessary cruelty.
- mynameisvlad 6y ago
  In this case, the students would be returning home, and therefore be citizens of the country they are flying to. Generally speaking (including the EU, which you mentioned), citizens are exempt from the travel bans. Even during the quarantine, there were once-a-week flights to China from the US (https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/16/business/us-china-flights-intl-hnk/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/16/business/us-china-flights-int...) Not saying that these changes aren't horrible, they are, but I don't think getting home is impossible. Very difficult, in most cases yes.
- Voloskaya 6y ago
  > The EU is currently debating exemptions for spouses who have been separated, so I doubt they have exemptions for students. Presumably, most students kicked out of the US would fly to their home countries where their status isn't "student". > who thinks it's a great idea [...] Most of Trump's voter base, sadly. Less immigrants in the U.S. is the only metric they care about.

pstuart 6y ago

It's not leadership.

x0x0 6y ago

> see anything that is to be gained from this Cruelty. Being publicly cruel.