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The pandemic is particularly challenging for a school like Harvard, as it makes the implicit thing obvious: a prestige school like Harvard is about the social c

The pandemic is particularly challenging for a school like Harvard, as it makes the implicit thing obvious: a prestige school like Harvard is about the social connections far more than the education. If you get one semester on campus, maybe, then what’s the point? You can get an online education anywhere, for far less money.

jedberg 6y ago
Harvard is fairly cheap to attend, less than a state school for most, and free if your parents make under $65K. They were forced to do that a few years ago so the government wouldn't start taxing their endowment. https://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/123014/what-harvard-actually-costs.asp https://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/12301...
- vmception 6y ago
  "but fuck you if your parents had good jobs but not enough for a trust fund at no fault of your own"
  - MiroF 6y ago
    Not fuck you, just pay what you can? Harvard is extremely affordable - like among the most affordable of any school.
    - vmception 6y ago
      By the time I was applying for colleges, my parents made around $250,000 combined, which went to mortgages and other expenses, including retirement plans. I was therefore not eligible for any FAFSA loans, as they do not factor in zip code, cost of living, the kinds of assets or liabilities anyone has, nor inflation. Affordable, to me, was in-state tuition at $3,000 per semester at a state school, with a few community college classes. This was mixed with scholarships, and my parents subsidizing books and on campus living some semesters as that could more than double the cost of tuition. Are you saying that Harvard could have arbitrarily and unilaterally spit out a number close to that? And routinely does for people whose parents make more than $65,000? My comp sci degree has the same utility as anyone else that didn't go to Ivy League / Stanford.
      - MiroF 6y ago
        Your household income would be more than 96% of all Americans today and likely more than that when you were applying for college. I'm not arguing that Harvard isn't expensive for affluent families, but even with an income like that you would still probably get financial aid. Harvard doesn't charge anything like full tuition to families under $200k a year, the point is just that they charge nothing at all if you make under $65k. I fail to see how that is unfair.
        vmception 6y ago
        My whole post was about how "income" doesn't factor in the liabilities and obligations or cost of living of anyone. Why would you respond with that reductionist answer? Why would a university penalize a student whose parents won't shift their budget, and that's assuming it is so simple? I also asked a specific question, which you completely skipped, while doubling down on a fairness argument that this thread wasn't even about. You act knowledgeable in the matter and then aren't able to dive in, only defend your position. Its fine to say "I don't know", but right now what are you doing? Were you saying that Harvard's "affordability" was anywhere close to the $3,000 tuition / semester I ended up paying? And that's because Harvard routinely makes up any number based on a variety of financial variables (which aren't as simple as "income") and ultimately feelings?
        GlennS 6y ago
        It's a price-segmentation system. It's not about fair. They have to target limited grants without much information to get the best set of students they can (plus probably keep some politicians happy about their demographics). Household income of parents is obviously a bit of weird proxy for an almost-adult child. But, I bet it works quite well at finding academically inclined people who assumed they couldn't afford X University and persuading them that they can. The alternative would probably be something like requiring all parents to buy "education insurance" for their children, which turns into a lump sum at 18, and then giving people with lower incomes a discount on that insurance. (This is a terrible idea, don't do it. Make education cheap or free instead.)
        6y ago
- skrtskrt 6y ago
  Yeah I had a friend attend for like $800 a year. My understanding at the time was that some other prestige schools were similar, like Stanford. Others have followed suit - Northwestern recently announced that they would just grant financial aid recipients whatever part previously would have been loans. When I was applying to college in early 2010s as someone who received financial aid (parents made ~$100k total), I could attend: * [top 20 school - private] for ~18k a year * [top 50 school - private] for ~18k a year * [sub 200-rank school - the main in-state school] for ~$9k a year * [top 20 to top 40 schools - state - out of state] for $30k-$40k... These big state schools were the most surprising to me because everyone always says "if you're smart they'll have so many scholarships for you it'll nearly be free!" But when it came down to it the good state schools weren't even in the running. I took the more prestigious school name for half the price.
  - akhilcacharya 6y ago
    Yup, and the reality becomes winners take all. Really starts to suck for us that ended up going to a ~200 ranked institution because we couldn’t get in to the prestigious ones (which, in all honesty, is much harder than finding a way to pay for an expensive school).
    - blaser-waffle 6y ago
      Sounds like an r/K selection thing. If you can't afford an Ivy and aren't elegable for assistance, then it may be more worthwhile to do community college and laterally-transfer into a different school. I knew a dude who did community college in Northern VA (NVCC) and transferred to Cornell. Shaved off a lot of costs, got a scholarship, and walked out with an Ivy League diplo. All of those hills were good for his leg strength, too.
      - akhilcacharya 6y ago
        Transferring into Ivies is nearly universally more difficult than getting in normally, the only exception is Cornell. Unfortunately, I'm still paying for being mediocre in my high school years!
- kbenson 6y ago
  > free if your parents make under $65K Which means that in the city I live in, if both parents work full time minimum wage jobs, their child might be able to go for free, since the minimum wage here is $15. It would even be slightly harder if the parents worked in San Francisco, since minimum wage is a few cents more there. I doubt anyone in that situation feels like that minimum wage is making it easy to live in the area. Programs meant to accept people from across the nation that peg goals/limits to specific income amounts don't seem to make all that much sense to me. :/
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - skrtskrt 6y ago
    I worked in a financial aid office for some time. There are thresholds and guidelines, but in my experience financial aid officers have a lot of flexibility and discretion. They look at the complete picture, including assets, number of other siblings that are dependents/in college, etc. You can also appeal the financial aid decision, and just going to that trouble will often get you a bit more aid if you have a decent reason. The depressing part was how many people obviously lie and misrepresent their financial situation to try to cheapen their student's aid cost. Not that I can really blame them, even if you make enough money that your kids don't qualify for aid, $70,000+ per year per child is just out of hand. And there's basically no risk to trying, the aid officers just look at it and are like "obvious lie, rejected" or "possible lie, ask for supporting evidence/documents".
    - Wowfunhappy 6y ago
      I feel like very obvious lies on financial aid applications should be grounds for the school to rescind their admission.
      - ericlewis 6y ago
        not necessarily the kids fault, so I am not sure I would agree.
- prepend 6y ago
  It’s great that Harvard started their free tuition program, but for most students it costs $60-70k/year. Harvard is not “fairly cheap” and likely has something to do with their students largely coming from wealthy families.
  - whymauri 6y ago
    >It’s great that Harvard started their free tuition program, but for most students it costs $60-70k/year. I think that's not quite right? "About 55% of Harvard students receive need-based scholarship aid with average grant totals around $53,000."
    - prepend 6y ago
      Tuition is $60k/year or 240 total. If the average grant is 53k, then that means the average cost is 187k. I went to a school with this weasel language all over their content. My kid was offered $3k/year in financial aid because the school said I should pay 65% of my annual gross to cover tuition. It’s nice that they have some token poor and working class, but Harvard is for the rich... “ According to The New York Times, the median family income of a student from Harvard is $168,800, and 67% of students come from the highest-earning 20% of American households. About 15% come from families in the top 1% of American wealth distribution.” [0] [0] https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/05/it-costs-78200-to-go-to-harvardheres-what-students-actually-pay.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/05/it-costs-78200-to-go-to-harv...
      - extra88 6y ago
        Living with and going to class with classmates from wealthy families is part of the value-add of going to Harvard for all the students. > I should pay 65% of my annual gross to cover tuition Harvard's financial aid is very clear cut and no one would be expected to pay 65% of their gross income. > 67% of students come from the highest-earning 20% of American households A household income about about $130,000 is enough to be in the top 20%; how well off you are with that income depends on where you live. Some high-income families (top 5% of households), with an expensive mortgage and other bills, may have difficulty with paying the full amount, or close to it. Good luck finding sympathy for how those rich people chose to spend their money instead of saving for their child's education.
- scorecard 6y ago
  It is not the case that Harvard is free for students whose parents make less than $65K. Read the small print.
  - MiroF 6y ago
    If they make less than $65k and don't have significant college savings/assets, then yes it is free. If you're a hedge fund manager who just retired and is now making $0/yr, sure it's not free.
- gammarator 6y ago
  Harvard has been extremely heavily discounted for low-income families for more than 20 years.
- extra88 6y ago
  > They were forced to do that a few years ago so the government wouldn't start taxing their endowment. Harvard College was not forced by federal policy to dramatically increase their financial aid back when they did. The 2017 tax bill did include a new tax on university endowments tailored to only apply to the wealthiest universities, including Harvard (it has the largest endowment but I'm not sure it's the largest per student).
SkyMarshal 6y ago
>The pandemic is particularly challenging for a school like Harvard, as it makes the implicit thing obvious: a prestige school like Harvard is about the social connections far more than the education. I wouldn't say "far" more. There are multiple valuable components to a top tier education: 1. Social connections with your peers, as you mention. 2. Social connections with your professors, their graduate students, and their network. 3. The education itself, which should be intellectually challenging (more or less depending on subject, with STEM subjects usually moreso, especially at top tier schools) 4. The pedigree, which is a factor of the previous three, and should prove to employers etc that, at minimum, you can handle a large and difficult work load with precision and attention to detail, regardless who your connections are. 5. Various support services tailored to the stresses of a demanding undergraduate education. Of those, an online education from a top tier school still gets you some of #2 & #5, and all of #3 and #4. A 20-30% tuition discount for losing #1 may be fair, but I think it's still worth it for students who get into a top tier school to finish their degree there, even online.
- biztos 6y ago
  > you can handle a large and difficult work load with precision and attention to detail This part may be true, but I doubt it's determinative: over a long career I've not found much difference between Ivy folks and State folks in engineering roles, and I can easily think of a few Ivy-Leaguers who ended up in very high office and whose fulfillment of your criteria was, at best, questionable.
  - SkyMarshal 6y ago
    I didn't say State STEM grads couldn't perform equally, nor did I say "Ivy" anywhere. Only that a "top tier" (of which Ivy is a subset) STEM degree is reliable proof of ability, and implicitly that it is one of the most reliable proofs of ability.
    - biztos 6y ago
      I read your comment as saying a "top tier" STEM degree is a more reliable proof of ability than some other STEM degree, and I was using "Ivy" as shorthand for "top tier by American reputation" -- granted, inaccurately, but it's common to do so. And if you were saying that I still disagree. It's not that a math degree from Stanford isn't a good indicator of ability, but that it's not any better an indicator than one from Cal Poly or for that matter Arizona State.
biztos 6y ago
Isn't some part of the value just the "badge appeal" of a Harvard degree? If you are Harvard 2024 won't that open just as many generously compensated doors as usual, even if there was a year less networking? Might the networking value even increase because now there is a shared bond (had to deal with 2020) connecting the less-connected and the more-connected?
- whymauri 6y ago
  I agree Harvard grads will be significantly better off in a job market than peers at lesser-known schools. However, one point of bitterness is that the value of attending Harvard next year is almost surely less than attending last year. Despite that, tuition is not being adjusted for students. In fact, it will cost more than last year.
onetimemanytime 6y ago
>>If you get one semester on campus, maybe, then what’s the point? You can get an online education anywhere, for far less money. First, Harvard didn't choose this. It happened and its for everyone. Maybe they should offer a 25% discount and cut salaries as well...or just dip in the endowment. What's the point on having it if you don't use for these events? Second, you're a Harvard grad for life and no one will know or care that 2 years were online (everyone is in the same boat)
- jimhefferon 6y ago
  > Harvard didn't choose this Yes. The grandparent post's contention that this is an elaborate bait and switch is silly. This is decision-making under vast uncertainty. It all sucks, but changing outcomes when some of the dozens of factors change is perfectly normal.
- geophile 6y ago
  Harvard chose their response. All colleges and university have to, and anything involving in-person classes is just nuts now. I understand why they do it, but it is inarguably dangerous. About "Harvard grad for life": That's connections -- the ones you make in school, and the ones you can make afterward. But as for intellectual capability? I would argue that college is completely irrelevant after a couple of years in the work force. Or stated another way: if I am interviewing for your second job as an adult, and you are trying to impress me with what you did in college, then something is very off. I have interviewed job applicants for many years, and the only time I cared about college at all is for kids who just graduated. You have to talk about their college experience because they almost never have anything else relevant. And even in those cases, I don't care at all whether the degree is from an Ivy or a lesser school. I care about what you know, how you think, and your potential for doing good work as revealed by talking about things you worked on in college.
  - kyawzazaw 6y ago
    Have you seen the latest news on ICE's announcement?
BurningFrog 6y ago
How much of the "social connections" angle is coming out of University with a high status spouse?
- ativzzz 6y ago
  That high status spouse uses these "social connection" to solidify their high status.
asveikau 6y ago
Social connections sure. But how about simply having the name on the resume? You could do it online and still get the name. Although with enough class years of this, the name will stop signifying the social connections, and might start being worth less.
dahfizz 6y ago
This is a very naive view. A prestigious school like Harvard has all the best professors, all the best resources (libraries, computer labs, machine shops, laboratories), and all the best opportunities (more research positions, more interesting academic work to be done), etc. A small school just can't afford all that stuff. So you're right that a good school is much more than just the things you learn in class. But to boil that down to some "all the elites go here just to meet the other elites" is closer to a conspiracy theory than the truth.
- geophile 6y ago
  Oh, come on, I've seen the Harvard circle jerks. The undergrads don't see the best professors. The best professors there, as everywhere, often do what they can to evade teaching. Many of the real-world resources are, of course, unavailable online, (computers being a likely exception).

jedberg 6y ago

Harvard is fairly cheap to attend, less than a state school for most, and free if your parents make under $65K. They were forced to do that a few years ago so the government wouldn't start taxing their endowment. https://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/123014/what-harvard-actually-costs.asp https://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/12301...

vmception 6y ago
"but fuck you if your parents had good jobs but not enough for a trust fund at no fault of your own"
- MiroF 6y ago
  Not fuck you, just pay what you can? Harvard is extremely affordable - like among the most affordable of any school.
  - vmception 6y ago
    By the time I was applying for colleges, my parents made around $250,000 combined, which went to mortgages and other expenses, including retirement plans. I was therefore not eligible for any FAFSA loans, as they do not factor in zip code, cost of living, the kinds of assets or liabilities anyone has, nor inflation. Affordable, to me, was in-state tuition at $3,000 per semester at a state school, with a few community college classes. This was mixed with scholarships, and my parents subsidizing books and on campus living some semesters as that could more than double the cost of tuition. Are you saying that Harvard could have arbitrarily and unilaterally spit out a number close to that? And routinely does for people whose parents make more than $65,000? My comp sci degree has the same utility as anyone else that didn't go to Ivy League / Stanford.
    - MiroF 6y ago
      Your household income would be more than 96% of all Americans today and likely more than that when you were applying for college. I'm not arguing that Harvard isn't expensive for affluent families, but even with an income like that you would still probably get financial aid. Harvard doesn't charge anything like full tuition to families under $200k a year, the point is just that they charge nothing at all if you make under $65k. I fail to see how that is unfair.
      - vmception 6y ago
        My whole post was about how "income" doesn't factor in the liabilities and obligations or cost of living of anyone. Why would you respond with that reductionist answer? Why would a university penalize a student whose parents won't shift their budget, and that's assuming it is so simple? I also asked a specific question, which you completely skipped, while doubling down on a fairness argument that this thread wasn't even about. You act knowledgeable in the matter and then aren't able to dive in, only defend your position. Its fine to say "I don't know", but right now what are you doing? Were you saying that Harvard's "affordability" was anywhere close to the $3,000 tuition / semester I ended up paying? And that's because Harvard routinely makes up any number based on a variety of financial variables (which aren't as simple as "income") and ultimately feelings?
        GlennS 6y ago
        It's a price-segmentation system. It's not about fair. They have to target limited grants without much information to get the best set of students they can (plus probably keep some politicians happy about their demographics). Household income of parents is obviously a bit of weird proxy for an almost-adult child. But, I bet it works quite well at finding academically inclined people who assumed they couldn't afford X University and persuading them that they can. The alternative would probably be something like requiring all parents to buy "education insurance" for their children, which turns into a lump sum at 18, and then giving people with lower incomes a discount on that insurance. (This is a terrible idea, don't do it. Make education cheap or free instead.)
      - 6y ago
skrtskrt 6y ago
Yeah I had a friend attend for like $800 a year. My understanding at the time was that some other prestige schools were similar, like Stanford. Others have followed suit - Northwestern recently announced that they would just grant financial aid recipients whatever part previously would have been loans. When I was applying to college in early 2010s as someone who received financial aid (parents made ~$100k total), I could attend: * [top 20 school - private] for ~18k a year * [top 50 school - private] for ~18k a year * [sub 200-rank school - the main in-state school] for ~$9k a year * [top 20 to top 40 schools - state - out of state] for $30k-$40k... These big state schools were the most surprising to me because everyone always says "if you're smart they'll have so many scholarships for you it'll nearly be free!" But when it came down to it the good state schools weren't even in the running. I took the more prestigious school name for half the price.
- akhilcacharya 6y ago
  Yup, and the reality becomes winners take all. Really starts to suck for us that ended up going to a ~200 ranked institution because we couldn’t get in to the prestigious ones (which, in all honesty, is much harder than finding a way to pay for an expensive school).
  - blaser-waffle 6y ago
    Sounds like an r/K selection thing. If you can't afford an Ivy and aren't elegable for assistance, then it may be more worthwhile to do community college and laterally-transfer into a different school. I knew a dude who did community college in Northern VA (NVCC) and transferred to Cornell. Shaved off a lot of costs, got a scholarship, and walked out with an Ivy League diplo. All of those hills were good for his leg strength, too.
    - akhilcacharya 6y ago
      Transferring into Ivies is nearly universally more difficult than getting in normally, the only exception is Cornell. Unfortunately, I'm still paying for being mediocre in my high school years!
kbenson 6y ago
> free if your parents make under $65K Which means that in the city I live in, if both parents work full time minimum wage jobs, their child might be able to go for free, since the minimum wage here is $15. It would even be slightly harder if the parents worked in San Francisco, since minimum wage is a few cents more there. I doubt anyone in that situation feels like that minimum wage is making it easy to live in the area. Programs meant to accept people from across the nation that peg goals/limits to specific income amounts don't seem to make all that much sense to me. :/
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- skrtskrt 6y ago
  I worked in a financial aid office for some time. There are thresholds and guidelines, but in my experience financial aid officers have a lot of flexibility and discretion. They look at the complete picture, including assets, number of other siblings that are dependents/in college, etc. You can also appeal the financial aid decision, and just going to that trouble will often get you a bit more aid if you have a decent reason. The depressing part was how many people obviously lie and misrepresent their financial situation to try to cheapen their student's aid cost. Not that I can really blame them, even if you make enough money that your kids don't qualify for aid, $70,000+ per year per child is just out of hand. And there's basically no risk to trying, the aid officers just look at it and are like "obvious lie, rejected" or "possible lie, ask for supporting evidence/documents".
  - Wowfunhappy 6y ago
    I feel like very obvious lies on financial aid applications should be grounds for the school to rescind their admission.
    - ericlewis 6y ago
      not necessarily the kids fault, so I am not sure I would agree.
prepend 6y ago
It’s great that Harvard started their free tuition program, but for most students it costs $60-70k/year. Harvard is not “fairly cheap” and likely has something to do with their students largely coming from wealthy families.
- whymauri 6y ago
  >It’s great that Harvard started their free tuition program, but for most students it costs $60-70k/year. I think that's not quite right? "About 55% of Harvard students receive need-based scholarship aid with average grant totals around $53,000."
  - prepend 6y ago
    Tuition is $60k/year or 240 total. If the average grant is 53k, then that means the average cost is 187k. I went to a school with this weasel language all over their content. My kid was offered $3k/year in financial aid because the school said I should pay 65% of my annual gross to cover tuition. It’s nice that they have some token poor and working class, but Harvard is for the rich... “ According to The New York Times, the median family income of a student from Harvard is $168,800, and 67% of students come from the highest-earning 20% of American households. About 15% come from families in the top 1% of American wealth distribution.” [0] [0] https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/05/it-costs-78200-to-go-to-harvardheres-what-students-actually-pay.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/05/it-costs-78200-to-go-to-harv...
    - extra88 6y ago
      Living with and going to class with classmates from wealthy families is part of the value-add of going to Harvard for all the students. > I should pay 65% of my annual gross to cover tuition Harvard's financial aid is very clear cut and no one would be expected to pay 65% of their gross income. > 67% of students come from the highest-earning 20% of American households A household income about about $130,000 is enough to be in the top 20%; how well off you are with that income depends on where you live. Some high-income families (top 5% of households), with an expensive mortgage and other bills, may have difficulty with paying the full amount, or close to it. Good luck finding sympathy for how those rich people chose to spend their money instead of saving for their child's education.
scorecard 6y ago
It is not the case that Harvard is free for students whose parents make less than $65K. Read the small print.
- MiroF 6y ago
  If they make less than $65k and don't have significant college savings/assets, then yes it is free. If you're a hedge fund manager who just retired and is now making $0/yr, sure it's not free.
gammarator 6y ago
Harvard has been extremely heavily discounted for low-income families for more than 20 years.
extra88 6y ago
> They were forced to do that a few years ago so the government wouldn't start taxing their endowment. Harvard College was not forced by federal policy to dramatically increase their financial aid back when they did. The 2017 tax bill did include a new tax on university endowments tailored to only apply to the wealthiest universities, including Harvard (it has the largest endowment but I'm not sure it's the largest per student).

SkyMarshal 6y ago

>The pandemic is particularly challenging for a school like Harvard, as it makes the implicit thing obvious: a prestige school like Harvard is about the social connections far more than the education. I wouldn't say "far" more. There are multiple valuable components to a top tier education: 1. Social connections with your peers, as you mention. 2. Social connections with your professors, their graduate students, and their network. 3. The education itself, which should be intellectually challenging (more or less depending on subject, with STEM subjects usually moreso, especially at top tier schools) 4. The pedigree, which is a factor of the previous three, and should prove to employers etc that, at minimum, you can handle a large and difficult work load with precision and attention to detail, regardless who your connections are. 5. Various support services tailored to the stresses of a demanding undergraduate education. Of those, an online education from a top tier school still gets you some of #2 & #5, and all of #3 and #4. A 20-30% tuition discount for losing #1 may be fair, but I think it's still worth it for students who get into a top tier school to finish their degree there, even online.

biztos 6y ago
> you can handle a large and difficult work load with precision and attention to detail This part may be true, but I doubt it's determinative: over a long career I've not found much difference between Ivy folks and State folks in engineering roles, and I can easily think of a few Ivy-Leaguers who ended up in very high office and whose fulfillment of your criteria was, at best, questionable.
- SkyMarshal 6y ago
  I didn't say State STEM grads couldn't perform equally, nor did I say "Ivy" anywhere. Only that a "top tier" (of which Ivy is a subset) STEM degree is reliable proof of ability, and implicitly that it is one of the most reliable proofs of ability.
  - biztos 6y ago
    I read your comment as saying a "top tier" STEM degree is a more reliable proof of ability than some other STEM degree, and I was using "Ivy" as shorthand for "top tier by American reputation" -- granted, inaccurately, but it's common to do so. And if you were saying that I still disagree. It's not that a math degree from Stanford isn't a good indicator of ability, but that it's not any better an indicator than one from Cal Poly or for that matter Arizona State.

biztos 6y ago

Isn't some part of the value just the "badge appeal" of a Harvard degree? If you are Harvard 2024 won't that open just as many generously compensated doors as usual, even if there was a year less networking? Might the networking value even increase because now there is a shared bond (had to deal with 2020) connecting the less-connected and the more-connected?

whymauri 6y ago
I agree Harvard grads will be significantly better off in a job market than peers at lesser-known schools. However, one point of bitterness is that the value of attending Harvard next year is almost surely less than attending last year. Despite that, tuition is not being adjusted for students. In fact, it will cost more than last year.

onetimemanytime 6y ago

>>If you get one semester on campus, maybe, then what’s the point? You can get an online education anywhere, for far less money. First, Harvard didn't choose this. It happened and its for everyone. Maybe they should offer a 25% discount and cut salaries as well...or just dip in the endowment. What's the point on having it if you don't use for these events? Second, you're a Harvard grad for life and no one will know or care that 2 years were online (everyone is in the same boat)

jimhefferon 6y ago
> Harvard didn't choose this Yes. The grandparent post's contention that this is an elaborate bait and switch is silly. This is decision-making under vast uncertainty. It all sucks, but changing outcomes when some of the dozens of factors change is perfectly normal.
geophile 6y ago
Harvard chose their response. All colleges and university have to, and anything involving in-person classes is just nuts now. I understand why they do it, but it is inarguably dangerous. About "Harvard grad for life": That's connections -- the ones you make in school, and the ones you can make afterward. But as for intellectual capability? I would argue that college is completely irrelevant after a couple of years in the work force. Or stated another way: if I am interviewing for your second job as an adult, and you are trying to impress me with what you did in college, then something is very off. I have interviewed job applicants for many years, and the only time I cared about college at all is for kids who just graduated. You have to talk about their college experience because they almost never have anything else relevant. And even in those cases, I don't care at all whether the degree is from an Ivy or a lesser school. I care about what you know, how you think, and your potential for doing good work as revealed by talking about things you worked on in college.
- kyawzazaw 6y ago
  Have you seen the latest news on ICE's announcement?

BurningFrog 6y ago

How much of the "social connections" angle is coming out of University with a high status spouse?

ativzzz 6y ago
That high status spouse uses these "social connection" to solidify their high status.

asveikau 6y ago

Social connections sure. But how about simply having the name on the resume? You could do it online and still get the name. Although with enough class years of this, the name will stop signifying the social connections, and might start being worth less.

dahfizz 6y ago

This is a very naive view. A prestigious school like Harvard has all the best professors, all the best resources (libraries, computer labs, machine shops, laboratories), and all the best opportunities (more research positions, more interesting academic work to be done), etc. A small school just can't afford all that stuff. So you're right that a good school is much more than just the things you learn in class. But to boil that down to some "all the elites go here just to meet the other elites" is closer to a conspiracy theory than the truth.

geophile 6y ago
Oh, come on, I've seen the Harvard circle jerks. The undergrads don't see the best professors. The best professors there, as everywhere, often do what they can to evade teaching. Many of the real-world resources are, of course, unavailable online, (computers being a likely exception).