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In general I find people using their phones whilst walking to be a nuisance, but I'm still not particularly in favour of this. There are at least two legitimat

In general I find people using their phones whilst walking to be a nuisance, but I'm still not particularly in favour of this. There are at least two legitimate use cases that don't cause too many problems: 1. Using your phone as an actual phone (i.e., an audio only conversation with the thing held to your ear, or with a headset). 2. Using it as a navigational aid. If I'm not too sure where I'm going I'll often use either Google or Apple Maps to set up directions before I start walking. I'll then put the phone in my pocket and just pull it out from time to time to check I'm still heading in the right direction. The real problems are caused by people reading, playing games, having video calls, or filming themselves (or others) whilst walking. They tend to dawdle, lose awareness of their surroundings and others around them, and in general behave like absolute goobers. Doing these things whilst navigating stairs or escalators is particularly aggravating - not to mention dangerous. This doesn't appear to be limited to any particular demographic or age group that I can see.

amelius 6y ago
> In general I find people using their phones whilst walking to be a nuisance, but I'm still not particularly in favour of this. Makes me wonder, if you bump into them and they drop their phone and break it, who is responsible? What if they were standing still and texting in the middle of the sidewalk?
- aspenmayer 6y ago
  Until the legal system adjudicates, it is ambiguous what responsibility is borne by the two parties; also unclear are expectations or assumptions regarding accountability, foreseeability, and preventability of actions or effects. If I could not have reasonably prevented you from running into me, it isn’t my fault that I didn’t avoid it, but it may still be my fault for moving in a manner in which I can’t respond to situations outside my control. Likewise, if could have acted differently to forestall, reduce, or prevent a problem from occurring, and yet I did not act in a way which would avert known unwanted results, I am not necessarily culpable, but I may be found lacking in grounds to blame the other for also not acting differently. Good Samaritan laws[1] try to embody this implicit social expectation, but enforcement of these laws can lead to its own sort of selective moral policing.[2][3] Many of these same social undercurrents also seem relevant to the new focus on social justice and cancel culture. It seems that those being judged often feel that they are judged too harshly, and bristle at being judged at all. I hope we can find ways to stop pointing fingers and start linking and building. It’s far easier and quicker to tear down than to build, and its impact is just as fleeting, thus the need for more finger pointing. Outrage is a renewable resource, but we as moral agents are only capable of feeling so much before we become desensitized to it in some way. I worry that one day people won’t be able to care about bad things happening in the world, because they don’t relate to a shared society at all. I hope for a future society[4] where social and civic participation at the individual level is collaborative and welcomed, and where all perspectives are judged on their merits outside an echo chamber. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Samaritan_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Samaritan_law [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duty_to_rescue https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duty_to_rescue [3] https://www.policeone.com/police-jobs-and-careers/articles/addressing-cops-confusion-over-the-public-duty-doctrine-SDnVxWnDhgenqAXO/ https://www.policeone.com/police-jobs-and-careers/articles/a... [4] https://web.archive.org/web/20170221125058/http://lareviewofbooks.org/article/a-genre-in-crisis-on-paul-di-filippos-wikiworld https://web.archive.org/web/20170221125058/http://lareviewof...
sk0g 6y ago
Not necessarily practical for everyday use, but can you navigate using earphones? I tried that when negotiating European cities like Basel, and Copenhagen on electric scooters, and it worked really well. Just start navigation, and preferably don't play music so you'd only get cues when you have to change course. I actually got pulled over by a police officer for something unrelated, and he was fine with the earphones when I explained I wasn't playing music.
Jakob 6y ago
I’m sure there are some use cases where you absolutely need a screen. Phone calls and maps directions though are actually very nice, and I would argue superior, using just a headset instead of the screen. The usage of mobile screens differs across the world as well. In my experience, in south and east asia people are glued to their screens much more than in other parts of the world (probably because the rest of the world still catches up). So such a rule might not seem as necessary in other parts of the world, yet.
tomxor 6y ago
I agree with you but most people really are not doing #1 or #2 most of the time... Your own experience as my example. It's a classic "why we can't have nice things" problem.
innocenat 6y ago
Regarding #2, you are supposed.to move out of the way before you pull up your phone to check for direction. That sounds reasonable to me.
tw04 6y ago
>1. Using your phone as an actual phone (i.e., an audio only conversation with the thing held to your ear, or with a headset). There's no indication this bans audio calls, given it specifically calls out smart phones I'd wager that's not their intent. >2. Using it as a navigational aid. If I'm not too sure where I'm going I'll often use either Google or Apple Maps to set up directions before I start walking. I'll then put the phone in my pocket and just pull it out from time to time to check I'm still heading in the right direction. So be respectful and step out of the flow of foot traffic to check it? They didn't say you couldn't use your smartphone in public, they said not to do it while you're walking. I'm sure they got sick of idiots either running into other people or walking into traffic with their faces glued to their phones. Can't say I blame them.
- Sephr 6y ago
  Phones can be a real-time navigational aid for the blind[1]. This requires the phone to record your surroundings, which means either holding your phone while walking or making a holster for the phone on the front of your shirt/jacket. 1. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seeing_AI https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seeing_AI
  - tw04 6y ago
    There are exceptions to pretty much everything. I doubt their intent is to punish the blind and I'm sure if they ever put any teeth behind the law there would be a carve out. No different then the countless "no pets allowed" laws that still allow seeing eye dogs.
- thatoneuser 6y ago
  "So be respectful and step out of the flow of foot traffic to check it?" You say this on Americas birthday of all days? I'm joking, but dude come on. You're not allowed to use GPS while walking? How uncoordinated would a person have to be to not be able to do that? If it's that difficult, people need to be walking more so they don't have to think to do it successfully.
kshacker 6y ago
CarPlay ==> walkPlay
jaclaz 6y ago
>1. Using your phone as an actual phone (i.e., an audio only conversation with the thing held to your ear, or with a headset). As a side note, the thing held to one's ear has become an issue, it is not the first time, lately, that I see people absentmindedly getting off the sidewalk to cross the road (of course not on zebra crossings or with a green light at an intersection) while holding a (large) phone to their ear thus covering with the phone and/or their hand the side from which the traffic comes, i.e. zeroing the possibility to see an incoming vehicle. Beside the distraction caused by the conversation, it is dangerous as they have their peripheral view completely blocked.
bartread 6y ago
Responding here because several people have brought this up: why are you assuming I'm not stepping out of the flow to both set up walking directions and to check my phone? Just because I didn't say it explicitly doesn't mean it doesn't happen, but I fail to see the reason why every HN comment I write needs to become a giant essay in order to cover every possible objection up-front. I've just moaned about people using their phones whilst walking: I'm hardly like to stand in the middle of a busy pavement whilst I set sort out directions in Google Maps. I also didn't say that I took a dump and a shower before I left the house today but, if you absolutely insist on making an assumption, it would be much more sensible to assume that I did than that I didn't.

amelius 6y ago

> In general I find people using their phones whilst walking to be a nuisance, but I'm still not particularly in favour of this. Makes me wonder, if you bump into them and they drop their phone and break it, who is responsible? What if they were standing still and texting in the middle of the sidewalk?

aspenmayer 6y ago
Until the legal system adjudicates, it is ambiguous what responsibility is borne by the two parties; also unclear are expectations or assumptions regarding accountability, foreseeability, and preventability of actions or effects. If I could not have reasonably prevented you from running into me, it isn’t my fault that I didn’t avoid it, but it may still be my fault for moving in a manner in which I can’t respond to situations outside my control. Likewise, if could have acted differently to forestall, reduce, or prevent a problem from occurring, and yet I did not act in a way which would avert known unwanted results, I am not necessarily culpable, but I may be found lacking in grounds to blame the other for also not acting differently. Good Samaritan laws[1] try to embody this implicit social expectation, but enforcement of these laws can lead to its own sort of selective moral policing.[2][3] Many of these same social undercurrents also seem relevant to the new focus on social justice and cancel culture. It seems that those being judged often feel that they are judged too harshly, and bristle at being judged at all. I hope we can find ways to stop pointing fingers and start linking and building. It’s far easier and quicker to tear down than to build, and its impact is just as fleeting, thus the need for more finger pointing. Outrage is a renewable resource, but we as moral agents are only capable of feeling so much before we become desensitized to it in some way. I worry that one day people won’t be able to care about bad things happening in the world, because they don’t relate to a shared society at all. I hope for a future society[4] where social and civic participation at the individual level is collaborative and welcomed, and where all perspectives are judged on their merits outside an echo chamber. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Samaritan_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Samaritan_law [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duty_to_rescue https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duty_to_rescue [3] https://www.policeone.com/police-jobs-and-careers/articles/addressing-cops-confusion-over-the-public-duty-doctrine-SDnVxWnDhgenqAXO/ https://www.policeone.com/police-jobs-and-careers/articles/a... [4] https://web.archive.org/web/20170221125058/http://lareviewofbooks.org/article/a-genre-in-crisis-on-paul-di-filippos-wikiworld https://web.archive.org/web/20170221125058/http://lareviewof...

sk0g 6y ago

Not necessarily practical for everyday use, but can you navigate using earphones? I tried that when negotiating European cities like Basel, and Copenhagen on electric scooters, and it worked really well. Just start navigation, and preferably don't play music so you'd only get cues when you have to change course. I actually got pulled over by a police officer for something unrelated, and he was fine with the earphones when I explained I wasn't playing music.

Jakob 6y ago

I’m sure there are some use cases where you absolutely need a screen. Phone calls and maps directions though are actually very nice, and I would argue superior, using just a headset instead of the screen. The usage of mobile screens differs across the world as well. In my experience, in south and east asia people are glued to their screens much more than in other parts of the world (probably because the rest of the world still catches up). So such a rule might not seem as necessary in other parts of the world, yet.

tomxor 6y ago

I agree with you but most people really are not doing #1 or #2 most of the time... Your own experience as my example. It's a classic "why we can't have nice things" problem.

innocenat 6y ago

Regarding #2, you are supposed.to move out of the way before you pull up your phone to check for direction. That sounds reasonable to me.

tw04 6y ago

>1. Using your phone as an actual phone (i.e., an audio only conversation with the thing held to your ear, or with a headset). There's no indication this bans audio calls, given it specifically calls out smart phones I'd wager that's not their intent. >2. Using it as a navigational aid. If I'm not too sure where I'm going I'll often use either Google or Apple Maps to set up directions before I start walking. I'll then put the phone in my pocket and just pull it out from time to time to check I'm still heading in the right direction. So be respectful and step out of the flow of foot traffic to check it? They didn't say you couldn't use your smartphone in public, they said not to do it while you're walking. I'm sure they got sick of idiots either running into other people or walking into traffic with their faces glued to their phones. Can't say I blame them.

Sephr 6y ago
Phones can be a real-time navigational aid for the blind[1]. This requires the phone to record your surroundings, which means either holding your phone while walking or making a holster for the phone on the front of your shirt/jacket. 1. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seeing_AI https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seeing_AI
- tw04 6y ago
  There are exceptions to pretty much everything. I doubt their intent is to punish the blind and I'm sure if they ever put any teeth behind the law there would be a carve out. No different then the countless "no pets allowed" laws that still allow seeing eye dogs.
thatoneuser 6y ago
"So be respectful and step out of the flow of foot traffic to check it?" You say this on Americas birthday of all days? I'm joking, but dude come on. You're not allowed to use GPS while walking? How uncoordinated would a person have to be to not be able to do that? If it's that difficult, people need to be walking more so they don't have to think to do it successfully.

kshacker 6y ago

CarPlay ==> walkPlay

jaclaz 6y ago

>1. Using your phone as an actual phone (i.e., an audio only conversation with the thing held to your ear, or with a headset). As a side note, the thing held to one's ear has become an issue, it is not the first time, lately, that I see people absentmindedly getting off the sidewalk to cross the road (of course not on zebra crossings or with a green light at an intersection) while holding a (large) phone to their ear thus covering with the phone and/or their hand the side from which the traffic comes, i.e. zeroing the possibility to see an incoming vehicle. Beside the distraction caused by the conversation, it is dangerous as they have their peripheral view completely blocked.

bartread 6y ago

Responding here because several people have brought this up: why are you assuming I'm not stepping out of the flow to both set up walking directions and to check my phone? Just because I didn't say it explicitly doesn't mean it doesn't happen, but I fail to see the reason why every HN comment I write needs to become a giant essay in order to cover every possible objection up-front. I've just moaned about people using their phones whilst walking: I'm hardly like to stand in the middle of a busy pavement whilst I set sort out directions in Google Maps. I also didn't say that I took a dump and a shower before I left the house today but, if you absolutely insist on making an assumption, it would be much more sensible to assume that I did than that I didn't.