8 ms·

Private Jet with US tourists rejected at Italy’s borders

55 points by notRobot 6y ago

vmception 6y ago
What I like about this pandemic is exposing inequalities that have been commonplace. Colorado to Sardinia in a private jet? That's a wild flight! How big would it have been? A typical European summer option for some, and to think it wouldn't have been news if it wasn't rejected at customs.
- rhexs 6y ago
  Does anyone know what it would cost to charter a flight like that? Is it relatively reasonable if you split it amongst 10 people, or are we still talking 10/15K per head?
  - nycdatasci 6y ago
    As a rough estimate, assume $10k per hour of flight for a rented plane + crew. If you own the plane, it would be more economical.
  - base698 6y ago
    On NetJets or ExecJet which is like kind of an Uber for private jets owned by Berkshire Hathaway you could probably get to $15k a head.
  - reverend_gonzo 6y ago
    It is not reasonable at all. I looked at chartering a small plane domestic for 6 people and it was cheaper to fly commercial. Going across the ocean will cost you a lot more. I would expect many multiples over the code of business class. So more like 50k pp. This is a guess, though I feel 10k in private jet from Colorado to Italy would be a steal.
    - masonic 6y ago
      it was cheaper to fly commercial Coach? Business class? First class?
  - paranoidrobot 6y ago
    Private Jets are stupid expensive. I ran up a quote on a private jet site, and it gave an estimate of "From" €113 960 (~=USD$128K). So your 10/15k/head isn't far off, and likely with other additional fees, transfers, baggage handling, catering, etc it'd probably go over that $15k mark. e: Also, looking at the quote it generated, that's based on filling every seat and using the cheapest option - for them a Falcon 2000EX EASy (10 seats). If you go for a different aircraft (more seats, faster) then you won't be getting much change back from half a million for an Airbus 319 Corporate Jet (30 seater) at "from" USD$437k.
    - __sy__ 6y ago
      this quote is cheaper than usual. I'll just leave it at that.
      - paranoidrobot 6y ago
        Yeah, I suspect that there's quite a lot of additional fees that arn't being shown. But this is just some site I found by obvious keywords, and they want me to give details to go further.
  - nuclearnice1 6y ago
    I googled around a bit. Stratosjet quotes ~80k for a flying from New York to Italy. The recommend the Challenger 604 and the Bombardier Global 6000 which seat 10 or 14 people respectively.
  - shivaas 6y ago
    For a direct flight, you're looking at about a ~10hr flight (~5620KM's). For that range, you're looking at anywhere between 10-15k/hour average price (eg: G-IV, G-650 type planes). In reality the price is higher because if you're paying for just one way, then you have to pay the same hourly rate for the plane to fly back to Colorado. If you're paying round trip, then you have to pay daily parking charges + crew fee, which adds up quickly.
  - pupdogg 6y ago
    New York -> Las Vegas one way costs approx. $34k which includes: Aircraft One-Way Rate, Fuel Adjustment, Additional One-Way Fuel Adjustment, Flight Crew, Crew Layover, Crew Meals, Ldg/Hdlg/Ap-Fees, Use Tax, and Federal Excise Tax. Those line items are a copy/paste from a real invoice. I’m sure you can extrapolate what a private flight from US to Italy would cost. Btw, when you fly private, I don’t think it’s courteous to split the tab...normally, one party handles it all.
    - anamexis 6y ago
      It's actually kinda hard to extrapolate what is based on distance/fuel and what is just a per-trip fee.
    - ceocoder 6y ago
      Ah bummer, that explains why I got bunch of odd reactions after I sent venmo request after my last private jet trip :) Joking aside, do you have first hand experience of this? How does it compare to traveling by business class on a national carrier?
  - dan-robertson 6y ago
    A weird thing about air travel is that going one step up from first/business class to a private jet comes with a massive decrease in the quality of travelling (exceptions are choice of route, flexible departure times and hopefully less time in boarder control/airports). In most other walks of life, incremental increases in price come with incremental increases in quality
    - un_montagnard 6y ago
      What are you loosing in the quality of travelling from first/business to private jet?
      - Gibbon1 6y ago
        I'm assuming the first step up is a small private jet. I took a small business jet from Omaha to I can't remember anymore South Dakota and 1980's business class from Oakland to Omaha was a lot nicer.
    - manigandham 6y ago
      How so? The quality of a transoceanic private jet is unmatched. It's basically a flying luxury apartment.
      - dan-robertson 6y ago
        If you fly business class you get waited on hand and foot the whole time, get plenty of space to lie down and sleep, and a reasonably quiet environment. On the next step up (ie not spending millions and millions of dollars on your own plane), you’ll be on a much smaller (probably noisier) plane with fewer comforts (you’ll likely be back to sitting instead of lying down), worse food, fewer supplies of things you might want to ask for (that you didn’t specifically request in advance of the flight). Depending on how your flight is organised you may also have stricter scheduling requirements (maybe you could turn up a few hours early or late but maybe you couldn’t rebook your ticket for a different day). And for all that, you’ll pay a lot more.
- econcon 6y ago
  Imho America is the only country where it's easiest to make money and where probability of your business succeeding is much higher than elsewhere. Partly due to America not trying hard to kill incentives which capitalism offers to entrepreneurs
  - stkdump 6y ago
    How come there are much fewer businesses per capita in America than almost everywhere in Europe, then?
    - econcon 6y ago
      I think they get acquired by big companies which provides nice exist to founders for majority of small businesses. How about comparing number of new businesses started/companies registered?
      - stkdump 6y ago
        Unfortunately I can't find data on acquisitions vs. bankruptcies. But Europe also ranks higher in new businesses per capita, although the difference seems to be less pronounced. I used total businesses because your comment seemed to imply to me that policy in the US would make it easier for businesses to survive and total number of businesses seems to be a measure of that.
  - vmception 6y ago
    You know that has nothing to do with why people had a private jet right? It could have just as easily have been the Italian passenger's 700 year old family office bankrolling it. I mean the Governor of Sardinia is distraught about it! lol. It is more interesting that the flight happened at all and the Americans couldn't stay.
- throwaway713 6y ago
  I'm a bit surprised the rich take private jets as much as they do. They are about as dangerous as cars on a distance basis, and considering how far a trans-Atlantic flight is, I don't know... I'd be hesitant to do that much driving in my car even.
  - gruez 6y ago
    >I'm a bit surprised the rich take private jets as much as they do. They are about as dangerous as cars on a distance basis Source for this? I know that general aviation travel tend to be much more dangerous than commercial airlines. This is mainly due to them using single engine planes with little redundancy (eg. cessna 172), and inexperienced pilots (you are doing it for fun). However, is the same true for "private jets"? I'm not sure what the exact model plane they used, but the pictured plane has 2 engines and looks about the right size for 10 people. The dual engines alone probably makes it safer than your average cessna. I'd also think that someone rich enough to operate a private jet probably has enough money for a professional pilot.
    - dingaling 6y ago
      The aircraft shown is a Hawker 800, it can accommodate 10 people but would need a multi-stop itinerary to make that flight. More likely the actual aircraft involved was a Gulfstream G650 or Global Express. There have been many private jet flights from the USA to the EU in the past week so it's hard to pin down without further details.
  - cameldrv 6y ago
    If you fly something like netjets where they have experienced crew, and you’re flying a bigger and new jet into a large airport, I don’t really think there’s much safety difference vs. commercial.
- manigandham 6y ago
  Inequality? How is it surprising that being rich affords you more options?
  - vmception 6y ago
    Because Colorado to Sardinia is a long flight and I am curious about the size and comfort of that craft, which was clear from the post. Stop projecting your own angst onto me.
    - manigandham 6y ago
      What does "exposing inequalities that have been commonplace" have to do with the aircraft? Sounds like the angst is in your own comments.
      - vmception 6y ago
        well since you really really want to talk about that word, I am referring to all parts of the socioeconomic spectrum that have been laid out to bare regarding COVID19 outcomes. this time it happens to be about a very long flight to a European tourist island for summer that otherwise would not have made news. you are assuming my opinion on that is negative and it could just as equally be fandom, which is why I greatly question what axe you have to grind and why
        manigandham 6y ago
        You said "exposing inequalities" and I'm simply questioning what was exposed. What's with the wild assumptions and defensive comments? And I believe it's news because it shows how American's are being targeted, regardless of their wealth or mode of travel.
        vmception 6y ago
        ok sure, how would you imagine a response that your setup wasn't defensive? whats being exposed is the non-news of a long private flight from colorado to sardinia, thats a really long and really awesome trip and yet it wouldn't have been news if it wasn't turned away. This is now the fourth time I've explained that. With you, I'm either reiterating what I already said and you not being satisfied, or I'm explaining how what you think I care about isn't what I care about but thats defensive to you and you're still not satisfied. This is probably not going anywhere bro.
- lopmotr 6y ago
  Surely most people know that private jets exist. I don't understand your shock. Using the word "inequalities" suggests you feel it's unfair that some people are much richer than you, but so what? Some people are also much poorer than you. We're obviously not all identical drones and that's a good thing.
  - vmception 6y ago
    Using the word inequality does not suggest that I feel its unfair. It is also an accurate word. Try again?
charliebrownau 6y ago
Hoaxdown and Plandemic is still going on globally Maybe invest in SHTF/prepping/farming and not attempt to "illegally" travel overseas
SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
Interesting that the governor of Sardinia was trying to find a way to let them stay. Are private jet tourists that important to the local economy, or was there some confusion where the American passengers expected to be allowed in?
- liber8 6y ago
  I think all tourists are. In the last few weeks I've seen numerous offers for free nights and free meals if you'll come stay in Sardinia. According to the European Commission, tourism is a key industry: https://ec.europa.eu/growth/tools-databases/regional-innovation-monitor/base-profile/sardinia https://ec.europa.eu/growth/tools-databases/regional-innovat...
  - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
    Yeah, it's certainly a tourist-heavy economy, but they're not letting most Americans fly in at all. I'd think trying to make an exception for just the private jet crowd would be a bad look.
    - stkdump 6y ago
      Sounds to me like the local government tried unsuccessfully to find a way around the national government policy.
      - lbeltrame 6y ago
        If that were the case it would be hilarious. Nello Musumeci, Sardinia's governor, just last month wanted Sardinia to be COVID-19 free and did not want anyone from any other Italian region without quarantining or constant surveillance.
    - stevehawk 6y ago
      private jet crowd is likely to spend a lot more money than the commercial jet crowd. after all, they just dropped about $40k or more just to get there.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
JMTQp8lwXL 6y ago
> The remaining five passengers were from Italy, New Zealand and England. They could have stayed in Sardinia, following a mandatory quarantine for 14 days before being allowed to move freely. Why couldn't the Americans perform a mandatory quarantine for 14 days as well?
- barkingcat 6y ago
  100% the Americans won't actually obey to a mandatory quarantine for 14 days. People with the ability to charter a private jet for a cross-Atlantic jaunt is the definition of "flight risk". On land, how do you enforce such a quarantine? You'd be kidding yourself if you believe they won't go out and hire a taxi the minute the health officials confirm their check in, and the next day they'd be at all the beaches. The minute police or military try to confine them, they'd go all self righteous and call the embassy. It's better that customs turn them back. Also, reading between the lines, the rest of the passengers didn't leave because of "solidarity" - it's most likely their itinerary is for a weekend trip and they didn't plan to stay for 2 weeks+ - they would have been planning to hit a few other islands maybe move on to Greece within a few days. When told they'd have to stay in one place for 2 weeks, they'd rather move on to their next destination (whether that's back to the US or to some place else with easier customs, we'd have to look at the flight plan to see where the plane actually went). These kinds of tourist trips are absolutely the worst since they are vectors trying to move fast - with no time allocated for quarantines / incubation at all.
  - JMTQp8lwXL 6y ago
    By that logic, why permit the New Zealanders to quarantine, or the English?
    - DangitBobby 6y ago
      I think their logic is that Americans in particular cannot be trusted to take it seriously or to self-sacrifice for the safety of others. Which, if you look at the response to COVID 19 from a large portion of the country, should be fairly evident. I say this as an American.
andrewseanryan 6y ago
Somewhat related to this... I’m an American who hasn’t been in USA since September (currently in Canada, Europe before that). I am wondering if I could get into the Eu from Canada even though I’m traveling on USA passport? I’ve seen no flexibility in the policy but in terms of risk posed by Americans, I haven’t been there at all during the pandemic, so I pose no risk. Anyone have any info on this?
- soneil 6y ago
  As I understand it, if you're travelling from Canada, and have evidence of Canadian residency, you're as good as Canadian for this purpose. If you're a visitor in Canada, it gets murky quickly. It's also worth knowing most countries are still banning by purpose as well as by source. Most countries do not accept tourism as a valid reason to visit. For example, for Germany; https://www.germany.info/us-en/covid-19/2321562 https://www.germany.info/us-en/covid-19/2321562 "Third-country nationals with a long-term right of residence in an EU State and/or in the aforementioned State (residence permit or long-term visa, e.g. for studies or starting a job) " - that could be you, depending in your residence position in Canada. ("aforementioned State" is EU/EEC/EFTA, plus July 1st's "positive list"). However, the page ends with "U.S. citizens may still enter Germany without a visa, if they can show proof of one of the afore-mentioned exceptions to the airline and border authorities. Entry for the sole purpose of a visit or for tourist reasons is therefore still not possible." Essentially, you need either a) the natural right to enter - EG, you're German. b) a good reason to enter, and be resident in, and travelling from, an acceptable country. or c) be on the VIP list of risks we're willing to take. (Germany in this case was just the clearest example I found in two searches. Go figure, Germans are good at rules. The "positive list" and recommendations are provided by the EU, the implementation is provided by the state. So the nitty-gritty does vary by country.)
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
lbeltrame 6y ago
FTR, My country's government is completely inconsistent. After voting yes to reopen EU's borders to select countries without quarantine, it immediately made an order forbidding tourists from extra EU areas and forcing quarantine upon everyone entering.

55 points by notRobot 6y ago

What I like about this pandemic is exposing inequalities that have been commonplace. Colorado to Sardinia in a private jet? That's a wild flight! How big would it have been? A typical European summer option for some, and to think it wouldn't have been news if it wasn't rejected at customs.

rhexs 6y ago
Does anyone know what it would cost to charter a flight like that? Is it relatively reasonable if you split it amongst 10 people, or are we still talking 10/15K per head?
- nycdatasci 6y ago
  As a rough estimate, assume $10k per hour of flight for a rented plane + crew. If you own the plane, it would be more economical.
- base698 6y ago
  On NetJets or ExecJet which is like kind of an Uber for private jets owned by Berkshire Hathaway you could probably get to $15k a head.
- reverend_gonzo 6y ago
  It is not reasonable at all. I looked at chartering a small plane domestic for 6 people and it was cheaper to fly commercial. Going across the ocean will cost you a lot more. I would expect many multiples over the code of business class. So more like 50k pp. This is a guess, though I feel 10k in private jet from Colorado to Italy would be a steal.
  - masonic 6y ago
    it was cheaper to fly commercial Coach? Business class? First class?
- paranoidrobot 6y ago
  Private Jets are stupid expensive. I ran up a quote on a private jet site, and it gave an estimate of "From" €113 960 (~=USD$128K). So your 10/15k/head isn't far off, and likely with other additional fees, transfers, baggage handling, catering, etc it'd probably go over that $15k mark. e: Also, looking at the quote it generated, that's based on filling every seat and using the cheapest option - for them a Falcon 2000EX EASy (10 seats). If you go for a different aircraft (more seats, faster) then you won't be getting much change back from half a million for an Airbus 319 Corporate Jet (30 seater) at "from" USD$437k.
  - __sy__ 6y ago
    this quote is cheaper than usual. I'll just leave it at that.
    - paranoidrobot 6y ago
      Yeah, I suspect that there's quite a lot of additional fees that arn't being shown. But this is just some site I found by obvious keywords, and they want me to give details to go further.
- nuclearnice1 6y ago
  I googled around a bit. Stratosjet quotes ~80k for a flying from New York to Italy. The recommend the Challenger 604 and the Bombardier Global 6000 which seat 10 or 14 people respectively.
- shivaas 6y ago
  For a direct flight, you're looking at about a ~10hr flight (~5620KM's). For that range, you're looking at anywhere between 10-15k/hour average price (eg: G-IV, G-650 type planes). In reality the price is higher because if you're paying for just one way, then you have to pay the same hourly rate for the plane to fly back to Colorado. If you're paying round trip, then you have to pay daily parking charges + crew fee, which adds up quickly.
- pupdogg 6y ago
  New York -> Las Vegas one way costs approx. $34k which includes: Aircraft One-Way Rate, Fuel Adjustment, Additional One-Way Fuel Adjustment, Flight Crew, Crew Layover, Crew Meals, Ldg/Hdlg/Ap-Fees, Use Tax, and Federal Excise Tax. Those line items are a copy/paste from a real invoice. I’m sure you can extrapolate what a private flight from US to Italy would cost. Btw, when you fly private, I don’t think it’s courteous to split the tab...normally, one party handles it all.
  - anamexis 6y ago
    It's actually kinda hard to extrapolate what is based on distance/fuel and what is just a per-trip fee.
  - ceocoder 6y ago
    Ah bummer, that explains why I got bunch of odd reactions after I sent venmo request after my last private jet trip :) Joking aside, do you have first hand experience of this? How does it compare to traveling by business class on a national carrier?
- dan-robertson 6y ago
  A weird thing about air travel is that going one step up from first/business class to a private jet comes with a massive decrease in the quality of travelling (exceptions are choice of route, flexible departure times and hopefully less time in boarder control/airports). In most other walks of life, incremental increases in price come with incremental increases in quality
  - un_montagnard 6y ago
    What are you loosing in the quality of travelling from first/business to private jet?
    - Gibbon1 6y ago
      I'm assuming the first step up is a small private jet. I took a small business jet from Omaha to I can't remember anymore South Dakota and 1980's business class from Oakland to Omaha was a lot nicer.
  - manigandham 6y ago
    How so? The quality of a transoceanic private jet is unmatched. It's basically a flying luxury apartment.
    - dan-robertson 6y ago
      If you fly business class you get waited on hand and foot the whole time, get plenty of space to lie down and sleep, and a reasonably quiet environment. On the next step up (ie not spending millions and millions of dollars on your own plane), you’ll be on a much smaller (probably noisier) plane with fewer comforts (you’ll likely be back to sitting instead of lying down), worse food, fewer supplies of things you might want to ask for (that you didn’t specifically request in advance of the flight). Depending on how your flight is organised you may also have stricter scheduling requirements (maybe you could turn up a few hours early or late but maybe you couldn’t rebook your ticket for a different day). And for all that, you’ll pay a lot more.
econcon 6y ago
Imho America is the only country where it's easiest to make money and where probability of your business succeeding is much higher than elsewhere. Partly due to America not trying hard to kill incentives which capitalism offers to entrepreneurs
- stkdump 6y ago
  How come there are much fewer businesses per capita in America than almost everywhere in Europe, then?
  - econcon 6y ago
    I think they get acquired by big companies which provides nice exist to founders for majority of small businesses. How about comparing number of new businesses started/companies registered?
    - stkdump 6y ago
      Unfortunately I can't find data on acquisitions vs. bankruptcies. But Europe also ranks higher in new businesses per capita, although the difference seems to be less pronounced. I used total businesses because your comment seemed to imply to me that policy in the US would make it easier for businesses to survive and total number of businesses seems to be a measure of that.
- vmception 6y ago
  You know that has nothing to do with why people had a private jet right? It could have just as easily have been the Italian passenger's 700 year old family office bankrolling it. I mean the Governor of Sardinia is distraught about it! lol. It is more interesting that the flight happened at all and the Americans couldn't stay.
throwaway713 6y ago
I'm a bit surprised the rich take private jets as much as they do. They are about as dangerous as cars on a distance basis, and considering how far a trans-Atlantic flight is, I don't know... I'd be hesitant to do that much driving in my car even.
- gruez 6y ago
  >I'm a bit surprised the rich take private jets as much as they do. They are about as dangerous as cars on a distance basis Source for this? I know that general aviation travel tend to be much more dangerous than commercial airlines. This is mainly due to them using single engine planes with little redundancy (eg. cessna 172), and inexperienced pilots (you are doing it for fun). However, is the same true for "private jets"? I'm not sure what the exact model plane they used, but the pictured plane has 2 engines and looks about the right size for 10 people. The dual engines alone probably makes it safer than your average cessna. I'd also think that someone rich enough to operate a private jet probably has enough money for a professional pilot.
  - dingaling 6y ago
    The aircraft shown is a Hawker 800, it can accommodate 10 people but would need a multi-stop itinerary to make that flight. More likely the actual aircraft involved was a Gulfstream G650 or Global Express. There have been many private jet flights from the USA to the EU in the past week so it's hard to pin down without further details.
- cameldrv 6y ago
  If you fly something like netjets where they have experienced crew, and you’re flying a bigger and new jet into a large airport, I don’t really think there’s much safety difference vs. commercial.
manigandham 6y ago
Inequality? How is it surprising that being rich affords you more options?
- vmception 6y ago
  Because Colorado to Sardinia is a long flight and I am curious about the size and comfort of that craft, which was clear from the post. Stop projecting your own angst onto me.
  - manigandham 6y ago
    What does "exposing inequalities that have been commonplace" have to do with the aircraft? Sounds like the angst is in your own comments.
    - vmception 6y ago
      well since you really really want to talk about that word, I am referring to all parts of the socioeconomic spectrum that have been laid out to bare regarding COVID19 outcomes. this time it happens to be about a very long flight to a European tourist island for summer that otherwise would not have made news. you are assuming my opinion on that is negative and it could just as equally be fandom, which is why I greatly question what axe you have to grind and why
      - manigandham 6y ago
        You said "exposing inequalities" and I'm simply questioning what was exposed. What's with the wild assumptions and defensive comments? And I believe it's news because it shows how American's are being targeted, regardless of their wealth or mode of travel.
        vmception 6y ago
        ok sure, how would you imagine a response that your setup wasn't defensive? whats being exposed is the non-news of a long private flight from colorado to sardinia, thats a really long and really awesome trip and yet it wouldn't have been news if it wasn't turned away. This is now the fourth time I've explained that. With you, I'm either reiterating what I already said and you not being satisfied, or I'm explaining how what you think I care about isn't what I care about but thats defensive to you and you're still not satisfied. This is probably not going anywhere bro.
lopmotr 6y ago
Surely most people know that private jets exist. I don't understand your shock. Using the word "inequalities" suggests you feel it's unfair that some people are much richer than you, but so what? Some people are also much poorer than you. We're obviously not all identical drones and that's a good thing.
- vmception 6y ago
  Using the word inequality does not suggest that I feel its unfair. It is also an accurate word. Try again?

charliebrownau 6y ago

Hoaxdown and Plandemic is still going on globally Maybe invest in SHTF/prepping/farming and not attempt to "illegally" travel overseas

SpicyLemonZest 6y ago

Interesting that the governor of Sardinia was trying to find a way to let them stay. Are private jet tourists that important to the local economy, or was there some confusion where the American passengers expected to be allowed in?

liber8 6y ago
I think all tourists are. In the last few weeks I've seen numerous offers for free nights and free meals if you'll come stay in Sardinia. According to the European Commission, tourism is a key industry: https://ec.europa.eu/growth/tools-databases/regional-innovation-monitor/base-profile/sardinia https://ec.europa.eu/growth/tools-databases/regional-innovat...
- SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
  Yeah, it's certainly a tourist-heavy economy, but they're not letting most Americans fly in at all. I'd think trying to make an exception for just the private jet crowd would be a bad look.
  - stkdump 6y ago
    Sounds to me like the local government tried unsuccessfully to find a way around the national government policy.
    - lbeltrame 6y ago
      If that were the case it would be hilarious. Nello Musumeci, Sardinia's governor, just last month wanted Sardinia to be COVID-19 free and did not want anyone from any other Italian region without quarantining or constant surveillance.
  - stevehawk 6y ago
    private jet crowd is likely to spend a lot more money than the commercial jet crowd. after all, they just dropped about $40k or more just to get there.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

JMTQp8lwXL 6y ago

> The remaining five passengers were from Italy, New Zealand and England. They could have stayed in Sardinia, following a mandatory quarantine for 14 days before being allowed to move freely. Why couldn't the Americans perform a mandatory quarantine for 14 days as well?

barkingcat 6y ago
100% the Americans won't actually obey to a mandatory quarantine for 14 days. People with the ability to charter a private jet for a cross-Atlantic jaunt is the definition of "flight risk". On land, how do you enforce such a quarantine? You'd be kidding yourself if you believe they won't go out and hire a taxi the minute the health officials confirm their check in, and the next day they'd be at all the beaches. The minute police or military try to confine them, they'd go all self righteous and call the embassy. It's better that customs turn them back. Also, reading between the lines, the rest of the passengers didn't leave because of "solidarity" - it's most likely their itinerary is for a weekend trip and they didn't plan to stay for 2 weeks+ - they would have been planning to hit a few other islands maybe move on to Greece within a few days. When told they'd have to stay in one place for 2 weeks, they'd rather move on to their next destination (whether that's back to the US or to some place else with easier customs, we'd have to look at the flight plan to see where the plane actually went). These kinds of tourist trips are absolutely the worst since they are vectors trying to move fast - with no time allocated for quarantines / incubation at all.
- JMTQp8lwXL 6y ago
  By that logic, why permit the New Zealanders to quarantine, or the English?
  - DangitBobby 6y ago
    I think their logic is that Americans in particular cannot be trusted to take it seriously or to self-sacrifice for the safety of others. Which, if you look at the response to COVID 19 from a large portion of the country, should be fairly evident. I say this as an American.

andrewseanryan 6y ago

Somewhat related to this... I’m an American who hasn’t been in USA since September (currently in Canada, Europe before that). I am wondering if I could get into the Eu from Canada even though I’m traveling on USA passport? I’ve seen no flexibility in the policy but in terms of risk posed by Americans, I haven’t been there at all during the pandemic, so I pose no risk. Anyone have any info on this?

soneil 6y ago
As I understand it, if you're travelling from Canada, and have evidence of Canadian residency, you're as good as Canadian for this purpose. If you're a visitor in Canada, it gets murky quickly. It's also worth knowing most countries are still banning by purpose as well as by source. Most countries do not accept tourism as a valid reason to visit. For example, for Germany; https://www.germany.info/us-en/covid-19/2321562 https://www.germany.info/us-en/covid-19/2321562 "Third-country nationals with a long-term right of residence in an EU State and/or in the aforementioned State (residence permit or long-term visa, e.g. for studies or starting a job) " - that could be you, depending in your residence position in Canada. ("aforementioned State" is EU/EEC/EFTA, plus July 1st's "positive list"). However, the page ends with "U.S. citizens may still enter Germany without a visa, if they can show proof of one of the afore-mentioned exceptions to the airline and border authorities. Entry for the sole purpose of a visit or for tourist reasons is therefore still not possible." Essentially, you need either a) the natural right to enter - EG, you're German. b) a good reason to enter, and be resident in, and travelling from, an acceptable country. or c) be on the VIP list of risks we're willing to take. (Germany in this case was just the clearest example I found in two searches. Go figure, Germans are good at rules. The "positive list" and recommendations are provided by the EU, the implementation is provided by the state. So the nitty-gritty does vary by country.)

deleted 6y ago

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lbeltrame 6y ago

FTR, My country's government is completely inconsistent. After voting yes to reopen EU's borders to select countries without quarantine, it immediately made an order forbidding tourists from extra EU areas and forcing quarantine upon everyone entering.