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This master - slave debate is at least 10 years old. And I have the same questions now: - ofc master slave relationship between human beings is wrong, but are

This master - slave debate is at least 10 years old. And I have the same questions now: - ofc master slave relationship between human beings is wrong, but are we not allowed to "abuse" and "subjugate" IT systems? I mean that's kind of their purpose if you ask me. It's wrong to beat somebody but it's not wrong to beat a carpet. - what is the purpose of removing those words? Is it like pretending these relationships don't exist? - who benefits from the removal of the terms and in what way exactly? How is the world getting better by doing this?

sova 6y ago
What are the new terms to supersede these antequated undesirables? Brain and Body?
- StrangeDoctor 6y ago
  Leader and follower are pretty easy drop ins for most contexts.
  - jaekash 6y ago
    Not really no
- weego 6y ago
  Senpai kohai would be the clear winner but unfortunately then we face problems of cultural appropriation. I jest, but then what else is there to do other than that when children of color are being gunned down in the street by the only people supposed to be protecting them and the best that the white tech elite can come up with is some token renaming in their infrastructure documentation. "but that's not all they're doing". Yes it is, if it wasn't things would have changed significantly before now and it hasn't and at this rate it won't this time either. It'll just allow white tech to keep attracting the types of white liberal employees they want to employ so everyone can go on avidly avoiding the truth. Why are companies going out of their way in cost and effort to mass employ using visa schemes rather than work locally? Where are the grass roots campaigns to promote tech education in uber privileged areas / cities? Where are the paths to employment and leadership? Where are the programmes to promote tech hubs in said locations and create opportunities for people who can't move to the tech elite areas? The best answer to that so far is covid-19 forcing people to look at remote working options for employees. We didn't even manage that by choice. What this hell is any of this achieving other than a few feel goods until the next horrific avoidable death?
  - pmontra 6y ago
    > "but that's not all they're doing". Yes it is, if it wasn't things would have changed significantly before now and it hasn't and at this rate it won't this time either. Of course, the problem is in the minds not in the words.
  - jaekash 6y ago
    > Senpai That would be cultural appropriation also not an actual English word so ... hard pass maybe?
- pnako 6y ago
  I despise the woke newspeak, but if we have to replace master and slave, I think master and puppet would be pretty cool. In this case, the analogy works even better because the puppet replicates exactly the movements of the puppet master.
  - jaekash 6y ago
    Why is it okay to keep master but not slave?
    - sova 6y ago
      How about Dominant and Subservient ? DOM, SUB lol
onion2k 6y ago
who benefits from the removal of the terms and in what way exactly? Everyone, because we get to work in places where our colleagues don't have to use words that have extremely negative connotations from their history. In a lot of cases we also get to use words that make more sense - "master" and "slave" is a specific type of relationship that computers don't have with one another. "leader" and "follower" are a better analogy in most cases, especially in the typical case of server replication.
- pacamara619 6y ago
  Absolutely not, Leader and Follower implies at least somewhat of a choice on the side of the Follower. Master and Slave exactly describe the way IT systems work, the Slave has no choice but to follow the instructions of the Master. Having the Slave not execute the exact instructions it was given would be a massive problem.
- henriquez 6y ago
  Does this mean BDSM Master/slave kink is also cancelled? Or is there newspeak for that as well?
  - zrail 6y ago
    This is a terrible argument and you know it. Stop it.
  - apocalypstyx 6y ago
    To be fair, BDSM is typically so reviled in the public consciousness I would expect it to be cancelled long before anyone bothered to get around to examining any of its jargon.
    - Hamuko 6y ago
      >I would expect it to be cancelled long before anyone bothered to get around to examining any of its jargon. I wouldn't since people attempting to control what consenting adults can do with each other in the privacy of their bedroom were the ones that were trying to keep gay marriage out and that's not really the winning side.
p49k 6y ago
IMO if you take your own argument to its logical conclusion, you can see that it falls apart easily. If someone launched a project in 2020 where you “lynch” a process to remove it and engage in “gassing” a connection pool to close all connections, then it’s blatantly obvious why such terms are problematic, despite the terms only being slightly removed from master/slave.
- ColanR 6y ago
  Eh. If I was managing a network with a ton of machines I needed to be able to turn off and on together (not that farfetched from what I'm currently doing), I'd probably label the scripts 'resurrection' and 'genocide'. Apt and descriptive. I think the difference is you chose words more emotionally charged, which isn't the point here.
  - sk0g 6y ago
    I'd say genocide is a bit... Strong, something like terminate might be just as apt, and less likely to get you fired!
    - ColanR 6y ago
      Genocide = kill them all, which is exactly what the script would be doing.
      - sk0g 6y ago
        What do you think (ex)terminate means, while not being a quite direct reference to catastrophic events?
        ColanR 6y ago
        It means kill one thing with extreme prejudice, which does not fit the description I gave you. The nice thing about a large vocabulary of both positive and negative words is that it's possible to use words that actually fit the context.
brighton36 6y ago
Perhaps twitter should replace these signifiers with "boss" and "employee" .
bajsejohannes 6y ago
> What is the purpose of removing those words? Is it like pretending these relationships don't exist? I wonder about this too. Slavery still exists in various forms. Does removing the word from software make us feel like we're making progress towards removing slavery, while there are better ways to use our time/money to fight it? Last time I was in this discussion, I ended up donating to antislavery.org, so who knows; maybe it brings focus to the cause. I'm pretty neutral about removing the word from software, though. I don't really think it changes the dial much in any direction.

sova 6y ago

What are the new terms to supersede these antequated undesirables? Brain and Body?

StrangeDoctor 6y ago
Leader and follower are pretty easy drop ins for most contexts.
- jaekash 6y ago
  Not really no
weego 6y ago
Senpai kohai would be the clear winner but unfortunately then we face problems of cultural appropriation. I jest, but then what else is there to do other than that when children of color are being gunned down in the street by the only people supposed to be protecting them and the best that the white tech elite can come up with is some token renaming in their infrastructure documentation. "but that's not all they're doing". Yes it is, if it wasn't things would have changed significantly before now and it hasn't and at this rate it won't this time either. It'll just allow white tech to keep attracting the types of white liberal employees they want to employ so everyone can go on avidly avoiding the truth. Why are companies going out of their way in cost and effort to mass employ using visa schemes rather than work locally? Where are the grass roots campaigns to promote tech education in uber privileged areas / cities? Where are the paths to employment and leadership? Where are the programmes to promote tech hubs in said locations and create opportunities for people who can't move to the tech elite areas? The best answer to that so far is covid-19 forcing people to look at remote working options for employees. We didn't even manage that by choice. What this hell is any of this achieving other than a few feel goods until the next horrific avoidable death?
- pmontra 6y ago
  > "but that's not all they're doing". Yes it is, if it wasn't things would have changed significantly before now and it hasn't and at this rate it won't this time either. Of course, the problem is in the minds not in the words.
- jaekash 6y ago
  > Senpai That would be cultural appropriation also not an actual English word so ... hard pass maybe?
pnako 6y ago
I despise the woke newspeak, but if we have to replace master and slave, I think master and puppet would be pretty cool. In this case, the analogy works even better because the puppet replicates exactly the movements of the puppet master.
- jaekash 6y ago
  Why is it okay to keep master but not slave?
  - sova 6y ago
    How about Dominant and Subservient ? DOM, SUB lol

onion2k 6y ago

who benefits from the removal of the terms and in what way exactly? Everyone, because we get to work in places where our colleagues don't have to use words that have extremely negative connotations from their history. In a lot of cases we also get to use words that make more sense - "master" and "slave" is a specific type of relationship that computers don't have with one another. "leader" and "follower" are a better analogy in most cases, especially in the typical case of server replication.

pacamara619 6y ago
Absolutely not, Leader and Follower implies at least somewhat of a choice on the side of the Follower. Master and Slave exactly describe the way IT systems work, the Slave has no choice but to follow the instructions of the Master. Having the Slave not execute the exact instructions it was given would be a massive problem.
henriquez 6y ago
Does this mean BDSM Master/slave kink is also cancelled? Or is there newspeak for that as well?
- zrail 6y ago
  This is a terrible argument and you know it. Stop it.
- apocalypstyx 6y ago
  To be fair, BDSM is typically so reviled in the public consciousness I would expect it to be cancelled long before anyone bothered to get around to examining any of its jargon.
  - Hamuko 6y ago
    >I would expect it to be cancelled long before anyone bothered to get around to examining any of its jargon. I wouldn't since people attempting to control what consenting adults can do with each other in the privacy of their bedroom were the ones that were trying to keep gay marriage out and that's not really the winning side.

p49k 6y ago

IMO if you take your own argument to its logical conclusion, you can see that it falls apart easily. If someone launched a project in 2020 where you “lynch” a process to remove it and engage in “gassing” a connection pool to close all connections, then it’s blatantly obvious why such terms are problematic, despite the terms only being slightly removed from master/slave.

ColanR 6y ago
Eh. If I was managing a network with a ton of machines I needed to be able to turn off and on together (not that farfetched from what I'm currently doing), I'd probably label the scripts 'resurrection' and 'genocide'. Apt and descriptive. I think the difference is you chose words more emotionally charged, which isn't the point here.
- sk0g 6y ago
  I'd say genocide is a bit... Strong, something like terminate might be just as apt, and less likely to get you fired!
  - ColanR 6y ago
    Genocide = kill them all, which is exactly what the script would be doing.
    - sk0g 6y ago
      What do you think (ex)terminate means, while not being a quite direct reference to catastrophic events?
      - ColanR 6y ago
        It means kill one thing with extreme prejudice, which does not fit the description I gave you. The nice thing about a large vocabulary of both positive and negative words is that it's possible to use words that actually fit the context.

brighton36 6y ago

Perhaps twitter should replace these signifiers with "boss" and "employee" .

bajsejohannes 6y ago

> What is the purpose of removing those words? Is it like pretending these relationships don't exist? I wonder about this too. Slavery still exists in various forms. Does removing the word from software make us feel like we're making progress towards removing slavery, while there are better ways to use our time/money to fight it? Last time I was in this discussion, I ended up donating to antislavery.org, so who knows; maybe it brings focus to the cause. I'm pretty neutral about removing the word from software, though. I don't really think it changes the dial much in any direction.