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Edge install undermines Microsoft’s argument that automatic updates are critical
- imchillyb 6y agoI'm not a fan of the Edge browser. I migrated away from Chrome -to Firefox- over a year ago and haven't looked back. I don't want a re-skinned Chrome browser. I don't want Chrome. I don't want Edge. Please Microsoft, listen to your users and stop trying to shove your products in our faces. If we want to try your products we will. If we don't want to use your products, then your own guerrilla-style tactics are only hurting your marketing efforts. When people feel they have a choice, they're more likely to be satisfied with the outcome. When people feel they're cornered, the experience is less than satisfying and is almost guaranteed to backfire on the one doing the cornering. I hope you're listening Microsoft...
- type0 6y agoSince users don't own Windows, only license it, MS has the ultimate say in what software those users will run. So it is what it is and we can all pray to Microsoft gods in hope that they will show some mercy. ️️
- erklik 6y ago> When people feel they have a choice, they're more likely to be satisfied with the outcome. Is this really the case? or is it more so that people want the illusion of choice? Let's not forget that the other major OS in the world has you locked into using one browser engine regardless of whatever browser you install i.e. you have the illusion of choice but not really. Would people be okay if Microsoft forced all browsers to use Chromium on Windows?
- skinkestek 6y ago> then your own guerrilla-style tactics are only hurting your marketing efforts. This isn't guerilla style. This is army style, carpet bombing.
- gruturo 6y agoAaaand it seems to have registered itself at some point as default pdf viewer, overriding my previous setting. Not sure when that happened but isn’t it just lovely.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- prepend 6y agoThe pdf thing is really annoying. I’ve reset it many times manually and patched seem to keep resetting it to Edge.
- megous 6y agoIt's a good thing. Also please uninstall IE6-11, old Edge automatically. :) Anyway, you can write the exactly same article about a random DLL/service you never asked for somewhere in C:\windows\* running in the background or hooking into apps doing whatever. This is what you get running a proprietary OS.
- joshuaissac 6y agoThere are lots of enterprise applications that will break in Edge and Chrome, and only work in IE, e.g. anything that uses XML Data Islands.
- ShaneMcGowan 6y agoOne could argue Microsoft has given years for these old systems to be migrated to use something that is more modern and future proof (if that even exists in technology)
- mynameisvlad 6y agoChromium Edge includes IE mode, which uses the Trident engine to render the page: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/deployedge/edge-ie-mode https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/deployedge/edge-ie-mode
- freeone3000 6y agoIE11 is still an OS component and can't be uninstalled. The running of it can be disabled, but it's still needed by various programs.
- encoderer 6y agoWithout respect to the facts, it's funny as hell to see this called "a new low" when browser bundling is what got them sued by the United States 20 years ago.
- default-kramer 6y agoThis is worse in my opinion. In the '90s, you could argue that precedent hadn't truly been set yet. Now that case is almost common knowledge in tech. They can't even pretend to have an excuse this time around. Until today, I thought "Microsoft is doing pretty good." Now I want nothing more than to see them sued/fined heavily for this. EDIT: I can see now that I wrote carelessly. By "This is worse" I meant "This is more blatantly illegal." Not "This is more detrimental to the world." The '90s browser bundling was probably much more detrimental, but not unexpected behavior. But the recent behavior was very unexpected to me. I had to use Task Manager to kill it. I can't believe Microsoft would be so bold as to not even give me some small, hard-to-read "no thanks" button somewhere.
- corty 6y agoMicrosoft in the last few years managed to successfully sucker a lot of people into believing the new microsoft post-balmer is somehow reformed and better. Therefore I think its also worse because of the added deception and astroturfing campaign. I think Microsoft actually never changed a bit. They just swapped the figurehead.
- bathtub365 6y agoThey changed. They fired their Windows QA and the quality of Windows went down even further as a result.
- hinkley 6y agoWe weren't mad at Microsoft for bundling software. We were mad at them for strangling out anyone whose shadow even looked like competition. People with 10% market share are allowed to do a whole hell of a lot of things that become illegal when you have 90% market share. I suspect this is part of why monopolies are so uniformly recalcitrant. From their perspective, we didn't have problems with them doing this 10 years ago, why are we upset about it now when they have assets worth taking away as a punishment? It's just a money grab. They're just winning and we're just jealous. If I own a grocery store, I'm selling formula for below cost to get people into my store. It's called a Loss Leader. If I'm the biggest formula maker in the world, and I sell formula below cost, that's called Dumping and I will be fined and punished if anyone can prove that I am 'too big' and that this is driving competition out of business.
- aphextron 6y agoAm I alone in absolutely loving Edge? It has finally unseated Chromium for me. It has all the benefits of the latest Chromium build without having to rely on sketchy binaries uploaded to some website, or giving Google total ownership of my web browsing. Sure Microsoft now fills that role, but they already own my OS anyways, so I'd rather reduce my "privacy surface area" as much as possible. Plus it has great built in privacy features like automatically deleting all browsing history after every session, and built in adblocking. I agree that the behavior outlined in this post is annoying, but the reality is that heavily managed automatic updating is the future for consumer grade software, and for good reason. If you're not a fan, just use Linux or an LTS Windows release.
- joe_the_user 6y agoAm I alone in absolutely loving Edge? You are now that Microsoft has done this. Seriously, forcing user preferences is terrible and completely unrelated to the virtues of Edge.
- millennialist 6y agoDoes it really matter? By nature, all web browsers are essentially the same, with identical features, except some are open source and others are not.
- recursive 6y agoI disagree. I find many browsers to be significantly different.
- cadence- 6y agoNew low? It’s par for the course for microsoft. They have been doing this for years.
- drewcoo 6y agoIf it weren't par, a new low would be better, right? I don't do sports ball.
- Jyaif 6y agoIt's a dirty move, but it's an immensely lucrative move. By switching users to Edge, they are switching them to Bing. The vast majority of users won't notice the switch since Edge and Bing both look a lot like Chrome and Google. This will give MS billions of dollars of additional advertisement revenue.
- megaman821 6y agoI am pretty sure that you get the browser prompt to switch your default browser anytime you install a new browser (or any app the registers as a file or url handler). It has your current default on the top with the other choices below, I don't see what is so objectionable about it. Now the full-screen splash page is obnoxious. There has to be a more tasteful way to inform the user of a large Edge update.
- AnimalMuppet 6y agoWhat's objectionable? 1. I didn't install it. You (Microsoft) installed (actually updated) it. And because you chose to update it, you think that gives you the right to nag me again about making Edge the default browser? Edge was already on my machine; I already answered that question. Stop nagging me about it. 2. If I just want it to shut up and get out of my face, it won't let me close it by right-clicking on the taskbar. 3. It's slow to load, so I have to wait for it before I can get rid of it (or else use the task manager, which also takes time). Yeah, I'd call the combination of those things "objectionable". I might call it stronger terms, too.
- genpfault 6y ago> (or else use the task manager, which also takes time) Tried that, left an arrow pointing at the place on the taskbar where the Edge window used to be. Wouldn't go away without a reboot.
- Thasc 6y agoI wouldn't have been bothered by this at all (including the splash), if Windows hadn't reassigned Edge as my default PDF handler. Delving into the dark guts of the default programs settings, and finding a way to convince Windows that it was alright for Firefox to open PDFs even though it hadn't been installed from the Windows Store, took a far longer context switch than it deserved.
- vezycash 6y ago>Delving into the dark guts of the default programs settings, and finding a way to convince Windows that it was alright for Firefox to open PDFs Right click a file (a PDF in ur case), click properties. Click "change". Choose the default file handler for that file type.
- xadz 6y agoThough many web developers rejoice at the increased adoption rate leaving IE behind.
- jah 6y agoHow many months until Github only renders in Edge?
- solvorn 6y agoAnd that’s a good thing.
- supernova87a 6y agoProbably some software VP got a directive from higher up to see to it that their browser/software penetration stats are increasing, and opportunities for tie-ins with other products too, so this is what you get. I would guess it is not a customer-product integrity driven priority.
- solarkraft 6y agoThat Microsoft is going this way now is pretty interesting, because the parallels to Internet Explorer seem pretty obvious - IIRC they really considered putting a FUD messsge in front of the Netscape website (uncertain about this, please correct if applicable). It looks like they have gotten too comfortable again. They have probably calculated the backlash and decided it was worth it because most people actually just don't care. It's going to get so much worse without proper regulation, the trend has been clear for years.
- huffmsa 6y agoGreat, now do one for Safari
- simonblack 6y agoThis isn't a 'new low'. Microsoft has always taken advantage of its monopoly position to take control. This is no different from the Netscape/Internet Explorer shenanigans of the 1990s. Trouble is, the new generation of computer users don't know MSFT's previous history so they are "shocked!". For the rest of us, it's just Microsoft being a dick as usual.
- young_unixer 6y agoTaking advantage of their monopoly is not the bad part IMO. The bad part is doing it in such an tasteless way, i.e. making the product suck. It wouldn't bother me if they overpriced their stuff like Apple does or bought every competitor like Facebook does, etc. It only bothers me when they make their product unusable like they've done with Windows.
- dragonwriter 6y ago> Taking advantage of their monopoly is not the bad part IMO. The bad part is doing it in such an tasteless way, i.e. making the product suck. They aren’t separate issues. Monopoly is the absence of effective competition (a place people go when you make things worse, whether in cost or UX or otherwise). That's what makes them free to do it “so tastelessly”.
- tomnipotent 6y agoYou still consider Microsoft of 2020 a monopoly?
- d1zzy 6y agoIt is very much still a monopoly for operating systems on personal computers (desktop and laptop). It's just that mobile phones have eaten a lot of the personal computer market so their overall power over people's lives has decreased because of that but it's still very significant.
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- nojito 6y agoNo different than what Google does when you visit any of it's properties.
- wolco 6y agoDo you work for microsoft? Who cares how bad someone else is?
- charonn0 6y agoVisiting google.com doesn't silently install Chrome.
- JohnTHaller 6y agoChrome does use bundleware and dark patterns to trick users into installing it. It's done this for years in things like free Windows antivirus, the Flash installer, etc. I've had to uninstall Chrome from my mom's computer 3 times. https://imgur.com/gallery/WWZxj https://imgur.com/gallery/WWZxj
- Wowfunhappy 6y agoIf Windows 10's forced automatic updates were really being done just for security, Microsoft would offer the option to use LTSC. It's a painfully obvious solution—keep everyone secure, without changing their system out from under them. Microsoft is producing the code anyway. It's not about security.
- Godel_unicode 6y agoThe actual article title of "With Edge, Microsoft’s forced Windows updates just sank to a new low" is a better explanation of what the article is about, imho. The word "throat" appears nowhere on the page.
- throwawaysea 6y agoWe need a revision of anti trust law as well as significant increase in enforcement.
- slowrabbit 6y agoYou're using winblows, you gave up your rights as a user already.
- techntoke 6y agoPretty much. Closed source at it's core for people that can't be bothered with freedom and don't mind being lab rats.
- cryptozeus 6y agoThis reads more like a hit piece. Just close the browser and use chrome ff as default anyway. You are on windows platform, aren’t you ? This discussion was already over and Microsoft already lost.
- charonn0 6y agoYou can't close it (easily). The [X] button, Alt+F4, Ctrl+W, etc. are all blocked and you have to click a "Get Started" button to unblock it.
- shmerl 6y agoBe part of the solution - ditch Windows, switch to Linux and pick any browser you want. Problem solved.
- swayvil 6y agoConsider Linux. I recommend the "Debian" flavor, with a "Mate" desktop. It's a no-brainer to install. It works exactly like all the other desktops. And it's faster, more secure, more stable and doesn't try to sell you stuff. It's also free.
- techntoke 6y agoManjaro is much better, or Ubuntu. With Debian you'll be lucky to get acceleration support and constantly be searching for unofficial repos to install modern software.
- swayvil 6y agoI haven't tried Manjaro. Last time I checked Ubuntu was becoming a bit of a pig and it had suffered some kind of desktop disaster. I have not encountered the problems with Debian that you describe but maybe my needs (browsing, coding and light video editing) are just that small.
- rusticpenn 6y agoYou don't have to use the default window manager for Ubuntu. I used to have Arch and Ubuntu LTS with i3 window manager. I found it easier to maintain Ubuntu LTS with i3 as my window manager.
- throw7 6y agoThe more things change the more things stay the same. I'm imagining good ole bill smiling away, "that's a good boy satya."
- stOneskull 6y agoi wonder if they play videos of bill at the ms board meetings. i imagine a goat sacrifice to help them create their evil schemes.
- modmans2nd 6y ago....Microsoft pushed their new native browser out ....the horror!!!! I guess we should be mad at Google and Apple for forcing their browsers on us too.
- unnouinceput 6y agoI don't have this problem. Firefox still my browser. No Edge in sight to do the shenanigans described in article. I even ran manually a "check for updates" and came back saying I am up to date. But I have a local account, and I've disabled all of Win10 crap using WPD. Maybe that's why? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- ShaneMcGowan 6y agoSure they needed to do this eventually since IE11 is coming to end of life soon. This isn't as shady as it appears
- 627467 6y agoI get that technically it is a new app and it is a browser... but edge has been bundled (outside of europe) since... ever. So has been the dark pattern of pushing for 'a better browser'. BTW, google does the same in their digital 'property' (they push for chrome - aggressively). Got no horse in the game but feels like '90s-hate-m$' nostalgia. How is this news? In 2020, can you tell me of an OS that doesn't nag you for updates or do so 'during down times'? Ahhh yes... an 'eol' android device from obscure (or not so obscure) android vendor...
- MildlySerious 6y agoThey hit that low for me when they did the exact same thing with Windows 10 upgrades. When people's PC eventually shut down to restart mid-work, because they just minimized the upgrade pop-up instead of telling it "later" - which were the only two options to begin with. When this involuntary upgrade bricked some laptop models. When they snuck a popup for either OneDrive or Win10 into an important security update. The whole point of an operating system is to work and get out of peoples way. Every needless distraction is a design flaw. Microsoft has, time and again, proven that they either don't understand or care about that and as such are not qualified to be OS vendors.
- tinus_hn 6y agoWould be interesting to see how it pins itself to the taskbar and what Microsoft is going to do if other programs start doing that.