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German stock trading platform Xetra down, all securities affected
- mratsim 6y agoGermany's Financial Authority is having a bad week.
- corty 6y agoDeutsche Boerse AG runs the XETRA system and is a private, publicly traded company. While they are of course overseen by the financial authorities, the German stock exchanges are private institutions.
- Hermel 6y agoInterestingly, "public" has a different meaning in English than in German in the context of a company. In English, a public company is a company whose shares can be freely traded by the public. In German, a public company is a company that is owned to the government. Companies that are listed on the stock market are called "kotiert". This could hint at a cultural difference, with the Germans more strongly identifying with the government ("if it belongs to the government, it belongs to everyone"), whereas the English speaking countries might tend to identify more strongly with the economy ("if everyone owns or at least could own some shares of it, it belongs to everyone").
- Macha 6y agoIn Ireland, both are used. A public [owned/sector] company is a government owned company while a public [limited] company (plc) is a company who's shares can be freely traded. Just "Public company" on its own can be context dependent, as publicly owned companies are often referred to as just public companies when referring to things like public-private partnerships or privatisation. At least public sector and public vs private in the context of privatisation are used in the UK also.
- danielh 6y agoI'm not a financial expert, but I think "börsennotiert" (listed on the stock exchange) is much more common than "kotiert", at least in Germany.
- majewsky 6y agoI'm German, and I literally just saw the word "kotiert" for the first time. Definitely use "börsennotiert" instead.
- dewey 6y agoYep, never heard of "kotiert" before.
- FabHK 6y agoI believe "kotiert" is a charming Swiss-German word (one of many, like "Velo" instead of "Fahrrad" for bike).
- romanixromanix 6y agoYes. See glossary of SIX Swiss Exchange: https://www.six-group.com/exchanges/knowhow/glossary_de.html?id=Kotierung https://www.six-group.com/exchanges/knowhow/glossary_de.html...
- mratsim 6y agokotiert seems surprisingly like "cotée" for "société cotée en Bourse" in French so I wouldn't be surprised if it were the Swiss that used that term.
- lqet 6y agoThat "kotiert" may be literally translated into "excrementized" or "fecesized" certainly doesn't help in making it more popular.
- pessimizer 6y agoThe phrase "publicly owned" in English implies government-owned (which seems like the German.) I'm not sure that the phrase "public company" is a common one. "Publicly-traded"? Yes. A company "going public"? Yes. And people would know what you meant if you said "public company" in context, but they might think you were referring to a "public utility," which may or may not be government owned. Also public and private schools (in the US.)
- bb611 6y agoA quick Google shows common usage of "Public Company" in US publications, in the manner described by GP.
- zaarn 6y agoI think that is more of a US thing, to my knowlegde public company means the same in english and german.
- x87678r 6y agoI get most confused by "public schools" in the UK which are the privately owned fee paying ones.
- occamrazor 6y agoThey are open to the public (in contrast to a private teacher). They are public in the same way a pub is a public house.
- eru 6y agoYou'll love British public schools. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_school_(United_Kingdom) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_school_(United_Kingdom)
- noneeeed 6y agoBut "public education" refers to state run/funded schools :) Also in the UK the "Public Sector" is government organisations. The "private sector" is for-profit/comercial organisations, many of which are publicly traded comapanies, which is normally shortened to simply "public companies". So you could be a public company in the private sector that provides services to a public school, which is part of the private education sector. Language is fun.
- vdfs 6y agoI think he is talking about Wirecard AG scandal and that company filling for insolvency. It's a huge thing that affected millions of people world wide specially their payment card solution in UK that got blocked and many companies that rely on them got their user cards blocked
- Areading314 6y agoYup. I was just reading about the wirecard fiasco and now xetra is down.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- ysleepy 6y agoReally interested in reading a technical post-mortem for that.
- andylynch 6y agoI'd like to see one too - they are rarely published (BaFIN will get it I'm sure). Usually the markets are reopened, some trades cancelled and everyone continues.
- blibble 6y agodidn't get one for the same thing in April (4 hour outage), no reason to expect we'll get one this time either
- pnako 6y agoThey used to run on OpenVMS. I don't know if that's still the case.
- andylynch 6y agoPretty sure it’s Linux now. One thing I like about t7 is they offer private exchange simulation environmentS in the cloud you can spin up and test against.
- minxomat 6y agoThis also affects trading platforms that match xetra price spreads during normal trading hours, such as LUS which is used by HSBC for Trade Republic (the German Robin Hood).
- baxtr 6y agoIn other articles about that I read that this is related to a software component called "System T7". There was a very similar incident in April related to that component.
- andylynch 6y agoT7 isn't just a component, it's the name for the whole trading platform for Deutsche Borse's markets (and it's generally very good)
- gpderetta 6y agoIt is pretty much a step above all the other exchanges in Europe. Asking around here, nobody is reporting any issues though, so it is possible only some stocks are affected.
- andylynch 6y agoXetra, Eurex and their T7 users Wiener Borse, Budapest Stock Exchange, and some others were halted most of the morning - luckily the stocks can be traded elsewhere, but the derivatives not so much.
- gpderetta 6y agoyes, I just saw the discussions in the support chat.
- blibble 6y agoI wouldn't say that, and I've interfaced with most of them it's better than Euronext Optiq, but that's about it
- ciceryadam 6y agoThe T7 trading system is used by the following exchanges for derivatives trading: Eurex, European Energy Exchange (EEX), Powernext. Source: https://www.eurexchange.com/exchange-en/technology/t7 https://www.eurexchange.com/exchange-en/technology/t7 Are those down as well?
- oars 6y agoMy guess is that it's Kubernetes-related issue.
- stingraycharles 6y agoThat seems oddly specific without detail. Why do you think it's related to Kubernetes?
- TedDoesntTalk 6y agoI think it’s joke. It made me LOL.
- mratsim 6y agoI think it was a jibe at Kubernetes and "cloud" in general.
- Rockslide 6y agoTrading has continued hours ago, probably even before this article was even published. In a first statement, they blamed algo-traders which created (and within milliseconds deleted) a ton of pointless orders, like buying Wirecard for 0,05EUR (which is ~1/100th of the current price). Yes, they explicitly called out orders on Wirecard. So basically... Denial of Service by bot-traders.
- snarf21 6y agoThis is such an easy problem to solve. All orders must stand for at least 1 minute before they can be cancelled. It stops all this crazy nonsense to try to move the price and arbitrage the pennies.
- logicchains 6y agoThat's not a solution, it would mean most market makers instantly left your exchange, or just quote really widely (providing a worse spread, so people wishing to trade have to pay a worse price), because holding your orders in the market for a minute is incredibly dangerous given how much the value of the underlying product could move at any time, especially when it's correlated with something traded on another exchange.
- raxxorrax 6y agoIt could be a solution if markets agreed to the same rules. To me, this form of trading has questionable economic effects in my opinion.
- logicchains 6y ago>To me, this form of trading has questionable economic effects in my opinion. Have you ever actually researched the economic effects, or is that just a gut feeling? If you look at it historically, as machines have come to dominate market making, spreads (the difference between buy and sell price) have continually fallen, meaning institutional investors and retailers can buy what they want at a better price. Machines are able to offer these better deals because they know they can get out of their position faster if the market suddenly moves; removing their ability to react faster would remove their ability to offer better prices.
- GillBates666 6y agoCharge some some small fee per transaction to pay for something worthwhile in society and that will limit the profitability of these billions of micro transactions as well. All these big finance companies should just be public utilities. They provide little to no benefit to society. They create nothing. They siphon so much money. The cost of the instability/fragility they create is sent downstream to the taxpayer. What society purposely sign up for this?
- gpderetta 6y agoMost exchanges have per trade fees, although many do offer rebates for market makers or liquidity providers.
- phendrenad2 6y agoReally interested to learn those two terms - "market maker", "liquidity provider". I think I kinda understand the second one (traders who are bringing money from outside the market). Does anyone know where I can read more about this kind of thing?
- lrem 6y agoI'm pretty sure Wikipedia has you covered... But TL;DR: traders that always have a buy and sell transaction active, making sure the market allows to buy/sell instantly at any time.
- Misdicorl 6y agoA market maker is an entity which isn't interested in the underlying assets at all. Their goal is to always end with a 0 asset, all cash balance sheet (over some small time interval). Their goal is to buy X at $100 and sell it at $100.01 a million times a day. `Liquidity providing` is the side of the trade which had a `resting order` on the order book which traded against a new order (the liquidity taker). Various exchanges have various different fee schedules for your designation as a market maker, how much volume you do, whether you are taking or supplying liquidity, and what kind of order you are placing.
- somerandomboi 6y agoIt was just a technical issue, right?
- dna_polymerase 6y agoWhat's the game plan in this scenario, will all orders be invalidated or what happens to them? I'd imagine it would really mess up market makers and others.
- andylynch 6y agoIt does. Most orders were cancelled and maybe trades too.