13 ms·
It's a purge. It won't stop with these three. The censorship will continue to get worse and be disproportionately applied to those on the right until all is lef
by chrisco255 6y ago
It's a purge. It won't stop with these three. The censorship will continue to get worse and be disproportionately applied to those on the right until all is left with the world.
Conservatism has a place in society. I'm not endorsing any of these guys viewpoints nor am I associating them with conservatism in general, because it's a broad group of over 100 million people in the U.S. with a diverse range of opinions that lean to the right. It's extremely important that society be balanced and not tilted to the extremes of either ideology. This process of selective banning and purging will not end well for Silicon Valley. The problem is they are not approaching the left's extremists with the same fervor. In fact they're turning a blind eye to the vicious hate against cops and conservatives on their own platforms.
And a lot of this hate is disproportionate to reality. That is, the perception of the problem exceeds the actual statistical problem.
I'm of the strong opinion that a society needs it's left and right brain to function properly and constructively in order to tackle the diverse set of problems we face. If there is no push-pull give and take between these two groups, then society will become unstable and increasingly more polarized.
I'm a free market capitalist, but with Silicon Valley's recent muscular intervention into free speech, and the overwhelming propaganda power they possess, I fully support the break up of big tech monopolies in social media, search, and app stores.
- lowtolerance 6y agoThoughts and prayers /s
- meroes 6y agoadapt or be left out
- YarickR2 6y agoWell. We had several ideological purges earlier in 20th century, and I can tell what will happen next: every netizen will be triaged by a progressive troika, and sent to rehabilitation and education camps. Internet versions (excommunication), or real life ones .
- robotron 6y agoI don't mind purging ideologies that are about racial superiority. Erase that shit.
- vageli 6y agoIt is crazy to think that ideas can be extinguished. These purges will serve to further concentrate and radicalize the adherents to these ideologies. edit: I may have been wrong, it seems deplatforming might work. [0] TIL! I had often read that echo chambers exacerbated radicalization but it seems more research has yielded better data to turn over that conclusion. edit1: it seems like radicalization is more nuanced, and different ways to handle communities based on its composition (eg. it is different to introduce someone to an ideology vs pushing a person already exposed into a more extreme view). Found this video to be informative [1]. [0]: https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/bjbp9d/do-social-media-bans-work https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/bjbp9d/do-social-media-ba... [1]: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HY71088saG4 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HY71088saG4
- staticassertion 6y agoIs there evidence of this? It seems like there are two views - that having an "open market of ideas" to debate things is how we should move forward, or that deplatforming is the way to move forward.
- vkou 6y agoCommunism, as a political movement, was largely extinguished in the US during the 20th century through purges and deplatforming. How many communist organizations do you see, these days? How much reach do they have, compared to the 30s? How much political power do they have, compared to the alt-right, today? Extinguishing that idea into the fringe seems to have worked rather well. As did de-nazification, post WWII. It's only more recently, when platforms started enabling fringe groups, has fascism crawled back into the light of day.
- vageli 6y ago
- rickbutton 6y agoA purge of white supremacists sounds great to me.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- danmg 6y agoWhat was the problem with /r/ConsumeProduct exactly?
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- kanox 6y agoNot advertiser friendly.
- rickbutton 6y agoProbably all of the white supremacy in it.
- 50ckpuppet 6y agosounds great to me to until I turned my brain on and realized that if you can purge one ideology, you can justify purging any other ideology.
- Daishiman 6y ago
- renewiltord 6y agoIt's a free society. If you don't like someone else's house party, build your own. thedonald.win is one such thing.
- adnzzzzZ 6y agoThat is an increasingly cynical view to expose given that the people who decide to do that just get blacklisted by the financial elite. https://twitter.com/TheEbonyMaw/status/1277120076186112000 https://twitter.com/TheEbonyMaw/status/1277120076186112000, https://reclaimthenet.org/gab-andrew-torba-visa-blacklisted-family-hate-speech/ https://reclaimthenet.org/gab-andrew-torba-visa-blacklisted-...
- etherael 6y agoThus making the case why alternative financial systems outside their power are essential.
- throwaway29102 6y agoAbsolutely. The Rothschild conspiracy is very real.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- sparkie 6y agoBitcoin fixes this.
- CyberDildonics 6y agoI would say a cryptocurrency with more throughput than a 144p youtube video could confront this.
- renewiltord 6y agoIt's like everything about ads and tracking: your business model is not my problem. Some businesses are just unviable. Compete or die.
- empath75 6y agoparler supports free speech, tho, right? except they're banning liberals: https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20200627/23551144803/as-predicted-parler-is-banning-users-it-doesnt-like.shtml https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20200627/23551144803/as-pr...
- at_a_remove 6y agoPerhaps that is what it might take for the people who are receiving a taste of their own medicine to stand up for free speech. I doubt it, but it is nice to remind them that they don't have a leg to stand on.
- empath75 6y agoNo because they don’t want to be on Parler, they’re just proving a point.
- iratewizard 6y agoA significant portion of right-wing people do not support parler or the shady circumstances surrounding it. They are not a tu quoque example.
- toiletfuneral 6y agoYou know they banned leftist subs too, but as always with free-speachers, those never count. Like where were you guys when Arkansas literally banned Howard Zinn? What about when South Carolina banned the words 'climate change'? Sorry but you all just don't come across consistent enough to be taken seriously. -- [1] https://www.king5.com/article/news/local/ark-bill-introduced-to-ban-howard-zinn-books-from-public-schools/281-420051599 https://www.king5.com/article/news/local/ark-bill-introduced... [2] https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/sep/12/north-carolina-didnt-like-science-on-sea-levels-so-passed-a-law-against-it https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/sep/12/north-caroli...
- halostatue 6y agoA friend of mine calls this supporting freeze-peach.
- haberman 6y agoI'm what you might call a "free speecher" and I think both of these are wrong. Luckily the "ban Howard Zinn" bill was never actually passed, and actually led to far more people reading him (Streisand effect there): > Rep. Kim Hendren’s bill to prohibit use of the late Howard Zinn’s books in Arkansas public schools died quietly in committee, of course, but it had great unintended consequence: Some 700 copies of Zinn’s book, “A People’s History of the United States,” were sent free to teachers and librarians throughout Arkansas thanks to the controversy. https://arktimes.com/arkansas-blog/2017/04/04/how-kim-hendren-helped-more-arkansans-read-howard-zinn https://arktimes.com/arkansas-blog/2017/04/04/how-kim-hendre...
- kstrauser 6y ago> Conservatism has a place in society. I wholeheartedly agree, and I've not heard of anyone calling to censor conservatives. Most or all of the people being de-listed are people who are breaking their platforms' terms of services. They might happen to be mostly conservative, but it seems like today it's mostly conservatives who are breaking the rules and calling for violence, doxxing people, etc. Reddit just kicked out some leftist groups for doing the same stuff, as was appropriate. > I'm a free market capitalist "...except when I disagree with it."
- sweetheart 6y ago>The problem is they are not approaching the left's extremists with the same fervor This is a false equivalence. The worst of the alt-right are far, far worse than the worst of the extreme left (antifa, maybe? Though there is no alt-left). Good riddance to them, I say. If you want to lead the KKK, and advocate for a white ethnostate, I won't lose any sleep when you can't post videos trying to convince others of the same evil ideas.
- eli_gottlieb 6y ago>The worst of the alt-right are far, far worse than the worst of the extreme left (antifa, maybe? Though there is no alt-left). Nah, there are plenty of people advocating for explicit ethno-separatism on the far left -- just look at Louis Farrakhan and his lefty pals. They just don't have very big YouTube channels. People more-or-less naturally ignore them except when they turn out to protests to hijack an ostensibly liberal or socialist cause.
- sweetheart 6y agoThe same group that classifies Louis Farrakhan's Nation of Islam as a hate group (the SLPC) is also saying that the idea that there is a liberal equivalent to the alt-right is a misconception. And you disagreed with what I was saying, but then yourself also stated that there is a large difference between the people who were banned and extreme leftists: the size of their audience.
- halostatue 6y agoLouis Farrakhan is not left-leaning. He’s as conservative as they get. He just happens to not be a white supremacist.
- eli_gottlieb 6y agoTell that to the Women's March, damnit.
- john-shaffer 6y ago> The worst of the alt-right are far, far worse than the worst of the extreme left (antifa, maybe? Though there is no alt-left). There are people that support Stalin and Mao, which is just bad as supporting Hitler.
- eli_gottlieb 6y ago>Conservatism has a place in society. It does. I've also been confidently assured by my conservative friends that conservatism is a very different politics from racism, fascism, and neo-Nazism. I would not really consider the question of whether I myself am a human being or, as Richard Spencer has posited, a "soulless golem", to be a conservative vs liberal fight.
- lowtolerance 6y agoAnyone who believes that conservatism is “a very different politics” from any of these ideologies is either full of shit or completely ignorant. Conservatives like to pretend they don’t know what the “conserve” in “conservative” refers to, but the reality is obvious: they want to conserve a status quo that disproportionately favors them, to the exclusion of any demographic that poses a threat to the status quo. It is no wonder at all that conservativism has become a safe haven for racists and fascists. Edit: look at the absurd amount of censorship taking place in this discussion from the “free-speech advocates”. irony is lost on you lot of geniuses.
- logarhythmic 6y agoIt's bizarre to me that this is an opinion people have unironicaly. Conservatism is not equivalent to Nazism. For society to actually function there needs to be a healthy tension between the status quo and possible reform
- lowtolerance 6y agoIt’s bizarre to me that you’d make a statement like this with absolutely nothing evidence-based to back it up. Edit: also, it’s equally amazing and horrifying to me that anyone could think a middle-ground between white supremacy and racial equality is “healthy”.
- eli_gottlieb 6y agoThe status quo hasn't actually put me in a death camp and gassed me, so it seems to me that if you are to assume all forms of the status quo, and all preservation of the status quo, is inevitably equivalent to Auschwitz, that you have some explaining to do.
- mempko 6y agoNone of those banned are conservatives. There is nothing conservative about their views.
- castlecrasher2 6y ago/r/lgbtconservative isn't conservative?
- mempko 6y agoThat's not a Youtuber listed in the title. I was referring to those people
- Yhippa 6y agoI have a vision for what could end up happening. We will see a bifurcation of Twitter, YouTube, Facebook, and Reddit into a conservative and liberal version. There appear to be many (apparently unsuccessful) attempts right now to do exactly that. The recent swath of bans could change that however. It's not too dissimilar to message board culture from the aughts. You essentially had federated versions of Reddit. It looks like we're destined for that again because people can't stop peeing in the grownups pool.
- 50ckpuppet 6y agothose day weren't all that bad. The nazi wannabe's had their own place, and almost everyone believed in Godwin's rule.
- DaiPlusPlus 6y agoTwitter, YouTube, Facebook serve a global audience - but the “conservative”/“liberal” dichotomy you describe is unique to the USA. If social media companies will be bifurcated as you say, it’ll be a tiny fraction of their American audiences - leaving the rest of the world sticking with the mainstream. Those smaller Ameri-centric sites will fail to reach critical-mass needed to sustain themselves in the long-term and hopefully those movements will fade into the background. Your comparisons to the *chan imageboard splintering is apt, but look at how the more extreme chan sites have been having in finding a web-host (with enough capacity) to host them.
- moneytalks 6y agoThe bans will expand to the rest of the world soon enough. There is no way to satisfy this beast and no border that will contain it. After Biden wins, I'd guess we'll have a couple years of laxer enforcement and that will doom the alternatives.
- skissane 6y ago> Twitter, YouTube, Facebook serve a global audience - but the “conservative”/“liberal” dichotomy you describe is unique to the USA. Not really. Many other countries also have a left-wing/right wing split in their politics. There is a lot of sharing of thought and cross-influence between right-wing politics and left-wing politics in different countries. Figures on the British right like Lord Monckton [1] or Nigel Farage [2] find many admirers in American and Australian conservatism. Conservative American journalists write puff pieces extolling the virtues of Marion Maréchal [3]. And I think you will similarly find a lot of exchange of ideas and thinkers on the political left between different countries too. [1] https://www.heartland.org/about-us/who-we-are/lord-christopher-monckton https://www.heartland.org/about-us/who-we-are/lord-christoph... [2] https://ukipwsx.org/nigel-farages-speech-at-us-heritage-foundation/ https://ukipwsx.org/nigel-farages-speech-at-us-heritage-foun... [3] https://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/marion-marechal-le-pens-dynamic-speech/ https://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/marion-marech...
- madballster 6y agoYou can't be a free market capitalist and then deny a free capitalist business their own terms and conditions as to whom they choose to do business with.
- ohgodplsno 6y ago>Conservatism has a place in society. Literal white supremacists and nazis however, do not. Those people should be pushed so far off any platform that their only option left is to be the crazies screaming on Times Square that the end of the world is coming. These people actively contributed to fostering hatred in societies, And no, you will not fight them off with debates. The time it takes you to rebuke a single one of their arguments means they can spew a dozen more of theirs. By the way, it's not free speech. The government isn't banning them.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- phonypc 6y ago>By the way, it's not free speech. The government isn't banning them. Free speech is a principle outside of the 1st amendment.
- koheripbal 6y ago...but since "literally" now means "figuratively" I honestly don't know where the line is.
- Acrobatic_Road 6y agoIt reminds of how in China, the CCP keeps around a few minor political parties to maintain the illusion that they aren't running a one party state. Any political parties which threaten the authority of the state are banned. The eight minor parties are like the token conservatives (think people who voted for Evan McMullin to protest Trump). The banned parties are everyone else.
- bufferoverflow 6y agoExcept Molyneux is not a "literal white supremacist and nazi". He is a conservative.
- danudey 6y agoConservatism has a place in society. Racism, bigotry, hate, and white supremacy do not. The fact is that American "conservatism" now is so run through with hate and vitriol and othering that no one can tell where one starts and the other begins. The logical fallacy that this is a "slippery slope" is ridiculous, and the number of people who are crying about losing the "freedom" to attack, incite, and threaten others is astonishing. The number one terrorist threat in the US right now is right-wing militant groups, condoning threats and violence towards anyone who thinks different than them. It's pretty clear to most that deplatforming people with hateful, violent, and dangerous messages is less of a threat to society than allowing them to keep spreading their vile hate. This isn't some arbitrary thought experiment or a white-room theorycrafting; people are dying because of this kind of hate. Conservatives who distance themselves from hate and bigotry and violence are fine, and I can live with those people, but the American far-right are a blight on society and private corporations are within their rights (and, I would say, responsibilities) to actually enforce their own policies against these people.
- jahaja 6y agoFrom a EU perspective, US Conservatives are pretty extreme though (not to even mention the religious variation). There seem to be some idea here on HN that racism/white-supremacy bullshit is somehow comparable with an oppressed scientist being persecuted by a dogmatic clergy for their new found facts. That maybe, in the future, these ideas will prevail and become acceptable again, when the oppression slowly subsides. Is this really what you think racism is? Some oppressed idea that needs a room because maybe it's actually a bit correct and we'll only know about it if we don't suppress the racists? But these things are objectively wrong. The above scenario isn't there. If you somehow think so, I think that says more about you than those that want to be intolerant towards intolerance. Please explain yourselves.