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There are tons of 45 and older American software professionals looking for jobs. Immigration specifically related to tech labor is promoted by big tech to dilut

There are tons of 45 and older American software professionals looking for jobs. Immigration specifically related to tech labor is promoted by big tech to dilute the labor pool and reduce their labor expenses. This group is the last of the good paying jobs in America.

eyelidlessness 6y ago
If you're wondering why you're being downvoted so quickly, you would be encouraged to read the article which addresses exactly your thinking (even the title does, but it provides detail!)
- zamalek 6y ago
  It's also in the article title. The problem is that positive sum games are very hard to understand and internalize - I've tried to explain it in-person multiple times and have been met with zero-sum questions.
  - corporateslave5 6y ago
    There’s basically no older people, no women, and very few black and Latino engineers. It’s not positive sum
    - zamalek 6y ago
      That is not how positive sum games are defined.
      - corporateslave5 6y ago
        The standard of living for Americans has been going way down, not up. It’s zero sum
        zamalek 6y ago
        Ask a Tesla employee who created their job. Ask any involved in the immense space delivery chain who is supporting their job. And that's just one immigrant.
        corporateslave5 6y ago
        If anything technology has exacerbated the destruction of the middle class
        imtringued 6y ago
        Inequality between countries is decreasing. Poor countries get richer and wealthy countries lose some but less than the poor gain. That is positive sum. For example you might lose 10% of your salary but four people in India double their salary. It's a slow process so it will feel like the downward trend will go on forever but one day it will change its course and salaries will go up again.
        dragonwriter 6y ago
        > Inequality between countries is decreasing. Inequality within countries is increasing, and is more directly connected to experienced disutility (though media saturation from one country to another can also make inequality b/w coubtries a factor in experienced disutility.) A problem with naive economic analysis is that it tends to pretend that absolute material wealth is the prime determinant of experienced utility (and consequently that disutility is mostly driven by absolute deprivation), which while true in the most abject poverty isn't true beyond that level.
        theflyinghorse 6y ago
        I would imagine American workers interpreting decrease in their quality of life and their wealth as a negative event. Condoling the fact by pointing out that some folks in India are now much better off is tone deaf at best.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- Dylan16807 6y ago
  It really doesn't. It's not zero sum, but the article doesn't properly demonstrate that the positives outweigh the negatives. There is a wide spectrum between "total wages are fixed" and "total wages scale 1:1 with immigration", and the tradeoff is only worth it above a certain point.
  - eyelidlessness 6y ago
    So your complaint is that the article doesn't embed the entire findings of all research and study on the topic, and limits itself to providing counterpoints that can be verified elsewhere? It's a blog post.
    - Dylan16807 6y ago
      Easily verified where? I see the part where they linked a study about what was "often" the case between 1850 and 1920. None of the other links seem to be relevant to that part of the argument. The article itself has a somewhat supported argument that it's not zero-sum. But it acts like disproving zero-sum is enough, when it really isn't. If bringing in 10 workers only adds 1 job, or 1 job's wages, that's not zero sum but it's almost as bad. And the article doesn't address how far it is from zero-sum, or link anything that does so.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
trhway 6y ago
>This group is the last of the good paying jobs in America. coronavirus is already making remote work a first class citizen and removes the main advantage of a local workforce - physical presence (similar to how the global financial and shipping infrastructure removed the physical presence advantage of the local blue collar workforce back then), and the immigration ban is just a push for companies to fill more of those jobs with the foreigners in foreign lands where they are much cheaper. Yet the lessons of history seem to be ignored as usually.

eyelidlessness 6y ago

If you're wondering why you're being downvoted so quickly, you would be encouraged to read the article which addresses exactly your thinking (even the title does, but it provides detail!)

zamalek 6y ago
It's also in the article title. The problem is that positive sum games are very hard to understand and internalize - I've tried to explain it in-person multiple times and have been met with zero-sum questions.
- corporateslave5 6y ago
  There’s basically no older people, no women, and very few black and Latino engineers. It’s not positive sum
  - zamalek 6y ago
    That is not how positive sum games are defined.
    - corporateslave5 6y ago
      The standard of living for Americans has been going way down, not up. It’s zero sum
      - zamalek 6y ago
        Ask a Tesla employee who created their job. Ask any involved in the immense space delivery chain who is supporting their job. And that's just one immigrant.
        corporateslave5 6y ago
        If anything technology has exacerbated the destruction of the middle class
        imtringued 6y ago
        Inequality between countries is decreasing. Poor countries get richer and wealthy countries lose some but less than the poor gain. That is positive sum. For example you might lose 10% of your salary but four people in India double their salary. It's a slow process so it will feel like the downward trend will go on forever but one day it will change its course and salaries will go up again.
        dragonwriter 6y ago
        > Inequality between countries is decreasing. Inequality within countries is increasing, and is more directly connected to experienced disutility (though media saturation from one country to another can also make inequality b/w coubtries a factor in experienced disutility.) A problem with naive economic analysis is that it tends to pretend that absolute material wealth is the prime determinant of experienced utility (and consequently that disutility is mostly driven by absolute deprivation), which while true in the most abject poverty isn't true beyond that level.
        theflyinghorse 6y ago
        I would imagine American workers interpreting decrease in their quality of life and their wealth as a negative event. Condoling the fact by pointing out that some folks in India are now much better off is tone deaf at best.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
Dylan16807 6y ago
It really doesn't. It's not zero sum, but the article doesn't properly demonstrate that the positives outweigh the negatives. There is a wide spectrum between "total wages are fixed" and "total wages scale 1:1 with immigration", and the tradeoff is only worth it above a certain point.
- eyelidlessness 6y ago
  So your complaint is that the article doesn't embed the entire findings of all research and study on the topic, and limits itself to providing counterpoints that can be verified elsewhere? It's a blog post.
  - Dylan16807 6y ago
    Easily verified where? I see the part where they linked a study about what was "often" the case between 1850 and 1920. None of the other links seem to be relevant to that part of the argument. The article itself has a somewhat supported argument that it's not zero-sum. But it acts like disproving zero-sum is enough, when it really isn't. If bringing in 10 workers only adds 1 job, or 1 job's wages, that's not zero sum but it's almost as bad. And the article doesn't address how far it is from zero-sum, or link anything that does so.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

trhway 6y ago

>This group is the last of the good paying jobs in America. coronavirus is already making remote work a first class citizen and removes the main advantage of a local workforce - physical presence (similar to how the global financial and shipping infrastructure removed the physical presence advantage of the local blue collar workforce back then), and the immigration ban is just a push for companies to fill more of those jobs with the foreigners in foreign lands where they are much cheaper. Yet the lessons of history seem to be ignored as usually.