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I deleted my Facebook, WhatsApp, and Instagram accounts, and felt great since

420 points by shog_hn 6y ago

peterburkimsher 6y ago
I have accounts on many platforms, including those 3. If you feel like you can't give something up, that's a good reason to spend a few weeks breaking the addiction. When I did that for BBC News and 9gag, I decided that I didn't want to go back to reading those sites (although I do click through sometimes from HN). I still use Facebook messages through mbasic.facebook.com on an old phone. I don't use 3G (or 4G or 5G), but read books on my phone or offline Wikipedia when on the bus. The news feed never interested me; it was all about having contact Lists, organising Events, and discussing topics in common-interest Groups. WhatsApp won't work on my old iOS 6, so I use it on Bluestacks and check it only when needed. The group chats on there would drive me crazy if they actually made notifications on my phone. Instagram seems to be full of pretty girls and memes, which I guess isn't that different to 9gag in some ways. Instead of complaining about data being sold, why don't we try to build a better social network? CouchSurfing put up a paywall. The community is moving en-masse to BeWelcome, a donation-funded, volunteer-driven, open-source, ad-free platform. The BeWelcome site is managed under a French non-profit, BeVolunteer: the same structure as Wikipedia and Wikimedia. I think that other projects could be part of the same organisation. Why stop at hospitality exchange? I think that if BeWelcome can get critical mass, a related site could then break into mainstream social networking.
deviation 6y ago
I'm getting quite sick of reading these blanket templated "I stopped using X and I feel great!" blog posts. Don't get me wrong, having more freedoms is an extraordinary thing. But everything has a valid use-case, including Facebook. Blanket deleting social media at this point just feels like a cheap-shot to get clicks and overshadows the more realistic benefits such as reconnecting with old friends, talking to tech illiterate family members, etc.
standardUser 6y ago
WhatsApp is a popular communication interface. Giving up WhatsApp is like giving up email or texting or phone calls. In some countries, it's a more dominate form of communication than any of those. If you want to give up communicating remotely with humans, OK I guess. Have fun. But giving up one specific interface? That's meaningless. It's like giving up Sauvignon Blanc but drinking Pinot Grigio everyday.
rvz 6y ago
Very insightful blogpost and good for the author. It shows its possible to get away from Facebook's social network drug store which they purposefully make it hard for you to quit or delete your profile(s). With Facebook, there's no such thing as 'privacy' and 'account deletion'. I hope that everyone else isn't addicted to another drug that is called 'Twitter' which one of its side-effects is 'getting the worst out of everyone' and all sorts of nasty media stories spreading over there.
- symmitchry 6y ago
  Deleting Twitter was easy for me because the platform is so antagonistic on mobile if you don't use their app. I don't even click on links people send me anymore.
  - trophycase 6y ago
    Same with reddit. I don't want to use your damn app!! Guess I won't use it at all. Reddit just infuriated me anyway so that was just the nail in the coffin
    - Baeocystin 6y ago
      The day they get rid of old.reddit.com is the day I quit for good. And I'll be honest, although the writing is on the wall, I really don't want that to happen. I like BBS-style forums! But I refuse to subject myself to the dark-pattern morass that is modern social media design.
      - Fogest 6y ago
        I feel so much faster using the old reddit site. Yes it doesn't look as pretty but it's faster in multiple ways. The site loads much quicker due to less bloat, but UI wise it's also a lot more efficient. Moderating some subreddits I feel like I often have to stick with the new reddit design just to use everything properly and it gets annoying having to flip flop back and forth.
      - 6y ago
ShaneMcGowan 6y ago
Social media bad
usr1106 6y ago
I never had WhatsApp or Instagram. I have Facebook for historical reasons that I searched a job more than a decode ago when Facebook was a thing. I have not logged in since January, so for some 5 months now. I think my record is 9 months without logging in.
- usr1106 6y ago
  Forgot to mention: occasionally I spend too much time writing trivial HN comments, which don't make me a better programmer.
johannes1234321 6y ago
I got off Facebook 1.5 years ago as well. Removed my special Facebook browser I used (removed the app long ago) and at first it was weird as I was used to hitting it, whenever I had a few minutes of nothing. But after a week or so it felt great. Less screen time, less mental burden from seeing "stupid" posts, less useless discussions, ... Couldn't get of WhatsApp, yet, as it's too often the default for friends and family.
- standardUser 6y ago
  I lived in a foreign country recently and Facebook groups were far and away the most important tool I had for meeting people and establishing myself. WhatsApp was the dominate form of communicating with people who lived there. And Instagram was the primary way I kept in touch with my closest friends on other continents. These things are useful, and just because they can be misused does not make them any less useful.
  - johannes1234321 6y ago
    No doubts that there are uses. Travelling Indonesia WhatsApp was a must (due to free basics / internet.org they were most reliable communication with local Services) and now in Corona lockdowns many shops here in Germany don't update their website, but Facebook with current opening times and offers. However I spent way too much time on it and Facebook is way to hungry for personal data.
ericol 6y ago
I lived in Spain for 5 years and then I returned to my country 13 years ago. Some 8 years ago, Facebook was something that I really enjoyed using. I left way too many friends, close friends, and well, lovers behind. Facebook allowed me to have a healthy relationship with them, even if at a distance. I went back to Spain on 2010 for the wedding of a close friend, and it was like I've been out of the country for 2 months instead of 2 years, and that was mostly thanks to Facebook. I can't point exactly at the moment when all that went to shit (May be 5, 6 years ago?) but nowadays FB is a constant string of shitty videos from companies trying to stay afloat, shitty videos made by shitty people, fake news by the thousand - and people adhering to the fake news narrative! - and stupid motivational shit of the kind that really demotivates you, people viciously attacking other people for the stupidest reasons... I disabled my account some 3 months ago, and I feel much better without it. Instagram, on the other side, is a different beast. Even with the strong push by FB in order to monetize the network, I think that fact that people can't easily share other people's post, and are kind of forced to post their own material still makes it an interesting place. As long as instagram does not allow reposting, I think it'll maintain a certain degree of quality. I also have disabled my insta account, but I do miss the information from the people I was following there (Mostly, artists and crafstmen of all kinds).
- marvindanig 6y ago
  I make it a point to check if an upstart is from bay area or not. If they are, my first assumption is that behind all that fancy "awesome" talk there is a sugar-coated sociopath that has been vetted and backed by a popular venture firm. Bail. Find an alternative from Europe or Canada instead. Or simply let it go.
- amatecha 6y ago
  I haven't used FB regularly in about 3 years now (after being an early adopter and heavy user), and honestly the times I logged in to see all the "happy birthday!" notifications, I couldn't believe how far the platform had devolved since I last logged in. It's one of the biggest disappointments of modern technology for me. Such amazing unity of entire communities and families, worldwide, being turned into such an exploitative and IMO harmful platform. There's a bit of signal in the noise (in the form of actual worthwhile friend/family/community posts), but unfortunately for me it's simply not worth the effort of wading through an endless supply of ragebait, propaganda and straight-up misinformation.
haunter 6y ago
I only have Facebook (Messenger) because my larger family use it for instant messaging but we are willing to move on. What's a good alternative that has a web client at least when you are on desktop + you can video call too?
- fossuser 6y ago
  Signal and Matrix/Riot are the best replacement options. You can pay $10/month for your own Modular.im Matrix server host and use that with your family (it also funds the devs). They have Jitsi support for video (you can also just use Jitsi stand alone). I think signal also has video calling, but not sure about group call support. Both have mobile and desktop apps. Both are encrypted and ad free. Matrix is federated, but modular.im makes setup easy.
artifact_44 6y ago
I too have felt the benefit of complete social isolation.
forgotmypw17 6y ago
I deleted them, but eventually I made new accounts. Sometimes I just really need to get in touch with someone via Facebook or Instagram, though not many WhatsApp users in my sphere. I hardly ever use them, but sometimes it comes in handy. For example, at least twice I found someone's wallet or ID and was able to contact them quickly using Facebook, because their name was the same.
diego_moita 6y ago
> Telegram is by far a superior product to WhatsApp. For one simple reason: bots. One of my Raspberry Pi projects is a bot to delete from the family group any post containing the name of politicians. This wiped out political flame-wars and fake news. It is very easy to make Telegram bots. You basically create a website, register it in a dynamic dns, add an ssh certificate (letsencrypt or your own) and add it to your group.
- ciarannolan 6y ago
  Genius. How large and active is that group chat?
  - diego_moita 6y ago
    Not too big, about 50 people. It is not a perfect solution, sometimes people send images with political memes. For these I made another bot that temporarily puts the offender under quarantine. Also, remember to use regular expressions to filter out common letter substituions. So, in Brazil, to filter out our very stupid president (Bolsonaro) I use: b[0o][1l][5s][0o]n[a4]r[0o]
    - ciarannolan 6y ago
      >>family group >Not too big, about 50 people. Your country has a different definition of "big family" than mine :) My family WhatsApp is 5 people.
amanzi 6y ago
I'm in a similar boat to the author and have also recently deleted my Facebook and Instagram account - although I'll note that the sneaky "to be deleted" state is now 30 days instead of just 7. But, similar to the author, I'm having more difficulty getting rid of WhatsApp. This is my primary means of communicating with friends and family all over the world. And for some of them I know it's just not an option to try get them to switch to another platform, especially since I'm not sure which is the better platform. In my opinion, WhatsApp strikes the perfect balance of security and usability. Telegram makes me nervous due to the Russian roots and the numerous security concerns I've read online. Signal is overly secure to the point that usability for regular folk suffers (I've personally had terrible experience with their support after losing a bunch of SMS messages.) Matrix, Riot, MatterMost, and many other opensource apps all look good but not overly user-friendly for novices. What else is there?
- shitgoose 6y ago
  Durov (Telegram) had a fallout with Russian government elite who raided his business and now lives in exile in UK (last time I checked). He has no direct links to KGB. Indirect - who knows.
- ccktlmazeltov 6y ago
  Why would anyone want to get rid of Whastapp.
  - amanzi 6y ago
    Only because Facebook owns WhatsApp and people who dislike Facebook as a company do not want to use any of their products.
  - bigbugbag 6y ago
    Because facebook. Also security issues, lack of privacy, lack of proper encryption, censorship, etc. among a long trail of reasons. Also whatsapp founder quitting and leaving 850millions dollars on the table doing so over the way facebook makes money out of whatsapp and for th way facebook made him mislead the european commission to have them green light the sale of whatsapp to facebook. He also called repeatedly for people to get rid of Facebook services. for exemple this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WhatsApp_snooping_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WhatsApp_snooping_scandal and this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reception_and_criticism_of_WhatsApp_security_and_privacy_features https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reception_and_criticism_of_Wha...
celestialcheese 6y ago
It's tough for me to get rid of facebook these days, purely because of FB marketplace. It has almost completely eliminated craigslist in my area for a lot of used items and is significantly nicer to buy/sell things in your area. I got rid of the timeline by unfollowing _everyone_. Timeline is completely empty. It's bliss
- commoner 6y ago
  There are other local marketplace platforms, such as OfferUp, that offer the same experience as Facebook Marketplace without tracking users as severely as Facebook does. https://offerup.com https://offerup.com
  - est31 6y ago
    But if nobody is using it in the area you live in, those platforms don't help you. The fact that such software exists isn't what brings the value to users, it's the fact that other people use it that you want to interact with. The term for this phenomenon is "network effect", and Facebook just simply buys up tons of platforms that have network effects.
    - commoner 6y ago
      In my area, OfferUp has a significantly larger selection of items than Facebook Marketplace. If you mainly use Facebook Marketplace, it's worth looking at OfferUp, Letgo, or other local marketplaces to see if that's the case for your location.
- ntsplnkv2 6y ago
  More evidence that Facebook should be broken up. Or, I should be able to create a separate FB Marketplace account.
  - wackro 6y ago
    If people have shifted from other platforms onto FB then doesn't that say the opposite?
stickfigure 6y ago
"I use Facebook, WhatsApp, and Instagram, and I feel fine!" -- most of the planet, but you'd never know it by reading HN
- Barrin92 6y ago
  people said the same thing about smoking 80 years ago and here we are. I'm not sure appealing to the prevailing common sense on long term issues of public health or socio-economics is particularly relevant.
- cryptoz 6y ago
  Facebook intentionally made about 400,000 feel sad/depressed on purpose. They bragged that they had 'informed consent' to perform psychological experiments on all Facebook users simply because you joined the site and agreed to their long legalese T&C. Maybe the rest of the world feels better on Facebook. But that will only last until Facebook randomly decides one day to throw them into a depression.
  - randycupertino 6y ago
    > Facebook intentionally made about 400,000 feel sad/depressed on purpose. They bragged that they had 'informed consent' to perform psychological experiments on all Facebook users simply because you joined the site and agreed to their long legalese T&C. As a certified clinical research professional (CCRP), this is pretty outrageous to hear. Might be an interesting discussion for one of our upcoming glorified journal club roundtables. TY!
- lancesells 6y ago
  It sure seems like most of the planet doesn't feel fine. I feel social media is only adding to that.
- bigbugbag 6y ago
  "I'm used by Facebook, WhatsApp, and Instagram, and I feel down!" -- most of the planet.
stevage 6y ago
Scientifically, it's not a robust conclusion. The kind of person who wants to delete FB etc is the kind of person who will feel better after they do it. Personally, I just use FB in a pretty restricted way. I unfollow most friends unless they post stuff I like engaging with. I give FB the bare minimum of my own personal data, and block all the ads they serve. I mostly post questions for discussion, rather than highlights of my life. I don't use Insta, although I'm considering it. Lots of friends have described really fun, healthy little communities they're part of. (I still think of Instagram as a photography community, which is how old I am.) I don't use WhatsApp by choice, but occasionally it's someone else's preferred way to communicate. I don't have a problem with it.
- dijksterhuis 6y ago
  > I still think of Instagram as a photography community, which is how old I am. Wait what? When did that change? I must be old too...
  - grawprog 6y ago
    It still kind of is, though, from what i've seen of people who use it, it's become more of a marketing platform now. Both, personal and professional.
  - hakanderyal 6y ago
    It's the biggest ecommerce platform in some social circles.
  - stevage 6y ago
    Years ago. I mean, ostensibly, it is still about sharing photos. But originally, it was more about "I took a really nice photo of something in the world, and I'd like you to see it". Now most of the photos are selfies, or otherwise express the personality of the poster, and it isn't about "photography" per se.
- anukriti 6y ago
  > I don't use WhatsApp by choice, but occasionally it's someone else's preferred way to communicate. I don't have a problem with it. I think this is a good point, just like you are expecting people to contact you on telegram there must be some people who would like you to contact them on whataspp.
EGreg 6y ago
Now what if you delete HN next? Will you feel even better?
kilo_bravo_3 6y ago
People who get sad looking at other people's lives on Instagram are likely so emotionally fragile that they'd probably get sad reading a book about other people's lives. Burn all books. "I burned my books, magazines, and eReaders and I FEEL FUCKING AMAZING OH MY GOD IF YOU COULD EXPERIENCE THIS LEVEL OF PURE UNADULTERATED JOY AND CONTENTMENT YOU WOULD SHIT YOURSELF."
- JMTQp8lwXL 6y ago
  False equivalence. Images and written text have different effects on the brain and emotions. You follow famous people on social media, who have 1,000x your wealth, travel all the time, get adequate sleep, meals, and exercise -- and it can chip away at your self-worth in a way books just can't.
  - imgabe 6y ago
    If someone else's good fortune makes you feel bad, this is a problem with you that you need to remedy in yourself, not a problem with the fact that other people have good fortune. Sorry, editing to clarify because this sounds unnecessarily combative. What I mean is your self-worth should not be externally determined by where you stand in some (mostly imaginary) ranking system compared to random strangers or celebrities, thus it should not be chipped away at by seeing anyone doing better than you in some aspect. This is a crucial skill to learn. You don't have to let your mood and self-worth to be subject to random vagaries of whatever you happen to be looking at at the moment.
    - cambalache 6y ago
      Sure, if you are a self-sufficient adult with health and your life more or less in order. But these apps dont prey on that kind of people.They prey on naive teenagers who still are maturing, they prey on technologically clueless senior (and not so senior) citizens who believe everything that is on the Internet, they prey on people disenfranchised, the losers in the dating game in the job market. The mental health damage to those kind of populations is huge.
imgabe 6y ago
Is there some aspect of WhatsApp that I'm missing? The way I use it, it is purely a messaging app. No different than text messages really. How does this get lumped in with Facebook and Instagram? (other than being owned by the same company).
- mandelbrotwurst 6y ago
  I think it's mostly that it's easier and more common to make larger groups, which then inevitably end up being a lot noisier.
- weston 6y ago
  I think OP is deleting WhatsApp because Facebook is the parent company. But I agree, WhatsApp is not a social network site but a messaging tool.
  - bigbugbag 6y ago
    A messaging tool is by definition a social network.
  - shog_hn 6y ago
    That's it. The clincher for me was when they announced that they would be starting to share user data from WhatsApp with parent company Facebook for ad targeting purposes.
- bigbugbag 6y ago
  Yes. you are missing the part where it's used for surveillance, for collecting personal data and exploiting it, for giving a false sense of security, and so on. Basically facebook being facebook and doing facebook things to the people that were escaping its grasp.
  - lsh123 6y ago
    Citation needed.
kjgkjhfkjf 6y ago
Comparing your inside with others' outsides will make you unhappy. It's important to learn not to do that, because it can happen in offline situations too. Deleting Facebook etc. is not the solution; it seems like the author threw out the baby with the bathwater here.
- bigbugbag 6y ago
  Facebook is entirely designed around this, being used by facebook without falling to this would mean an incredible mental load and fatigue that would take a toll on your ability to properly function through the day. getting rid of facebook is the right move here.
deleted 6y ago
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ccktlmazeltov 6y ago
Recently I went to Milan and remembered that I had a good friend there. I tried to reach out to him on Facebook and it turns out that he had deleted his account. I couldn't reach out to him again because I never knew his email, or really had much friends in common. It was pretty sad when I think about it. I'm happy that with Facebook I can still keep in touch with most of my friends that I made around the world traveling. I end up meeting quite some friends that I haven't seen in decades when I travel. I understand that some people are unhappy about the downsides of social networks, and Facebook in particular, but I wish more people would realize the upsides as well.
- anukriti 6y ago
  Agreed. Platforms like facebook are very easy to find and contact with old friends, but when people delete the account it becomes 10x tougher to find them again. I wish people improve their self control when it comes to using apps like instagram and facebook.
  - ntsplnkv2 6y ago
    How can you expect people to have self control over a system which does everything in its power to weaken/stop that self control? Facebook in 2010 was what we all loved. It's garbage now, and we all know it.
    - annadane 6y ago
      You think the IPO in 2012 made things worse?
- andrewzah 6y ago
  Wechat/Line/Kakaotalk handle this without the damages of Facebook and the like. At least for KakaoTalk, it's not a "social network" in the same way your contacts list isn't one, but since everyone [in Korea] is on Kakaotalk it makes adding and maintaining friends easy. You don't have to worry about people deleting their accounts because there's nothing -to- delete an account over; it's just a chat app that everyone uses. It would be nice if there were a similar app in the US with that kind of market share, instead of everything being scattered among various apps, etc. The only real issue I felt with deleting my facebook was losing access to facebook groups. I was very close to making a burner account to participate in some groups, but I never ended up wanting it that -that- badly as meetup sufficed.
anukriti 6y ago
Try using Signal side by side with telegram. Telegram has more features but it works the same way as whatsapp. On the other hand signal is trying its best to provide privacy which whatsapp and telegram never do
- thekyle 6y ago
  I think you're being a little harsh on WhatsApp. Although I use Signal personally, I consider WhatsApp to be a good middle. It has more users and features than Signal but also much better privacy than Telegram.
davesque 6y ago
I still have a FB account strictly to do messaging with a certain group of friends. I would feel great about browsing FB too if it didn't feel so much like I was contributing to the downfall of modern society.
nso95 6y ago
Unfollowing all news sources on Facebook has improved the experience for me. I would see an article, and before long be reading comments from white supremacists and/or SJWs.
- ntsplnkv2 6y ago
  Yep, Facebook in my day (I deleted it in 2014), was a lot better. It was just people saying what they did, sharing photos. It seemed a lot less political. And companies weren't fully onboard yet in using their ad campaigns, and politicians weren't either. And perhaps too bad actors weren't involved.
  - bigbugbag 6y ago
    Facebook has not changed a bit, it was a glorified birthday reminder capturing as much personal data as possible and it still is. Well except maybe that at some point it started to aim at replacing the internet on order to keep the investor storytime running, which had the interesting side effect of facebook putting a dictator in power[1]. [1]: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2017-12-07/how-rodrigo-duterte-turned-facebook-into-a-weapon-with-a-little-help-from-facebook https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2017-12-07/how-rodri...
    - ntsplnkv2 6y ago
      Obviously I meant from an end user perspective. Behind the scenes FB was nefarious then and now.
deleted 6y ago
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ImaCake 6y ago
Whenever this topic comes up, there are always a lot of comments to the effect of "facebook isn't the problem, you are". Maybe it is best to think of facebook like sugary food. Many people have no trouble having one piece of chocolate and then leaving the rest for later. Many other people are unable to stop themselves from downing the whole 200g block. I think these comments come from people who have no trouble engaging with facebook without any unhealthy habits forming. But there are people who are unable to engage with facebook in a healthy way. I personally struggle with facebook's newsfeed and have to put up some serious barriers to ensure I don't waste an hour of my day looking at it. Presumably many of the negative comments about how terrible facebook is come from people like me. The first step to helping those who are impacted negatively is to acknowledge that there is a real problem here. The next is to attack the problem with various solutions. Some of them facebook will not like.
- deleted 6y ago
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- faitswulff 6y ago
  I think of so many human problems as the "sugary food" class of problems now. Internet addiction†, pornography, gossip, sensationalist headlines. All sugary food. Our brains are wired to seek out that hit of glucose or dopamine in resource scarce environments and it's maladaptive in the long-term for resource rich ones. † which is why I'm here on HN, if I'm honest
  - anon9001 6y ago
    "Internet addiction" seems like a different thing than the rest of those to me. Being addicted to discovering new information and sharing with others sounds pretty healthy to me. I think the difference with HN vs FB is that at some level, you are driving your HN interaction, while FB is driving your FB interaction. I think it only becomes "internet addiction" when you're not the one in control.
    - usr1106 6y ago
anta40 6y ago
I still use Facebook, WhatsApp, and Instagram. Why? Facebook: I met lots of elementary/junior high school friends many years ago who have been lost contact with more than 2 decades via this platform. Useful, isn't it? Remember, it was before 2010. And I don't spend much time scrolling on my timeline because I prefer group discussions. Remember that Google had shut down it's consumer version of Google Plus. WhatsApp: My de facto messenger app. Many years ago, it was BlackBerry Messenger. Now Whatsapp. I like this app because it's essentially just a messenger app without useless stuffs like news, job search etc (yes Line, I'm looking at you). Telegram is also cool. It's open source so you can make your own modified version. Instagram: Ahh Instagram. I don't want to sound like an grumpy old man. Do you remember that in 2010 till 2012, it was a "privillege" only iOS users can enjoy? And when they announced Android version, we Android users shouted in joy? I'm a photography enthusiast so I purposefully post my photos on it. You won't find my latest dinner photos or selfies on beautiful beaches there, promise. I also follow the accounts of some famous photographers and photographers hashtags to provide me more visual references. People some also to forget that many many years ago, back in the film era, gaining recognition is harder: you need to build years of reputation, publish your works on magazines, do exhibitions on gallery etc. Now? We have social media. Waaayyy easier. Post your photos and in less than 5 minutes, people in Africa or Alaska can enjoy them. Even any kid can do that. Despite the useless craps, I'm glad that there are people who still use social medias in a sane way :)
- GuiA 6y ago
  As a photographer, i can guarantee that spending 10 hours on preparing an exhibition will be much more useful than 10 hours “engaging” on Instagram. A gallery show will bring people to you and your work, let you sell prints, collect emails, potentially meet publishers/other curators/etc. Good luck getting noticed in all the noise on Instagram, or making any money.
- graposaymaname 6y ago
  > WhatsApp: My de facto messenger app. Many years ago, it was BlackBerry Messenger. Now Whatsapp. I like this app because it's essentially just a messenger app without useless stuffs like news, job search etc (yes Line, I'm looking at you) Well, it does have some not-so-essential features like "whatsapp status". It should have just been a messenger instead of switching over to the social media hype. It'd be myopic if we ignore all the persuasive techniques they employ.
arminiusreturns 6y ago
One word of warning about this approach: it becomes one in a set of red flags about you if you are ever being investigated by any entity at the national level. Not having a facebook is viewed as an outlier, and hence will contribute to some unknown weight of your other red flags that once triggered will put you into national security letter, warrant-less wiretap type areas. Beyond that, facebook retains shadow profiles on people even if they don't have accounts, or have deleted their accounts... ...so my suggestion is to keep the account but start clearing the data out and poisoning it. Be especially careful about the IP's you log into it from (and randomize that MAC!).
- quadhome 6y ago
  If you ever warrant an investigation by a nation-state, then having or not having a Facebook will be a tiny piece of your OpSec.
  - arminiusreturns 6y ago
    Security is about layers, and these days you don't know private entities aren't abusing nation-state capabilities and databases... beyond that, I disagree. Especially in this current state of things with things like protests going on, it's naive to think the same cointelpro tactics aren't being applied to protestors and even those just associated with them in the social graph (like they were to occupy). Fus1on centers for one do this sort of thing unconstitutionally and have access to most of the same databases besides being regional.
- randycupertino 6y ago
  > One word of warning about this approach: it becomes one in a set of red flags about you if you are ever being investigated by any entity at the national level. Not having a facebook is viewed as an outlier... Isn't that all the more reason to do it, though? The more people who delete it or don't have accounts, the more normalized it will become to not have social media profiles.
  - arminiusreturns 6y ago
kayman 6y ago
I've been off Facebook for many years now. I deleted my account when I found myself typing "f" into my browser. Facebook dropdown, select and lose time scrolling feeds. I never got into instagram. As an american expat I find whatsapp convenient to contact my family overseas using their day-to-day telephone.
davidandgoliath 6y ago
Felt great, yet still needs to post publicly on 3rd party sites to attract attention: Sure thing.
Markoff 6y ago
aka How I become hermit good luck deleting Whatsapp (and Messenger) in Europe, you essentialy cut yourself from most of the communication also replacing Whatsapp with E2E Signal encryption by default with unsafe Telegram with no encryption by default and even optional with questionable quality doesn't seem like very clever choice, I would have expected switch to Signal, Riot etc. instead notgoriously unsafe service, which doesn't even provide videocalls
ipiz0618 6y ago
I understand the motivations behind deleting Facebook and Instagram, but switching messaging platforms is really not as easy as how the article made it look like. When most people in your circle are on WhatsApp, you're tied to it as well. Sometimes even your bosses and colleagues need to reach you with that. Also if you just delete the account for Telegram there's less motivation for friends to reach you to just catch up because they don't use Telegram. Sure your best friends and family will reach you through whatever platform but that's about it. You lose friends. Some are ok with that but others should be aware of what switching messaging platforms costs.
onyva 6y ago
Removing Facebook from my life was the best thing I’ve ever done and I don’t feel I miss anything. Also, will never use any app or service that requires a social account. Facebook was very easy to get reed of in fact. IG I was hesitant, since I like photography. It was obvious though quickly after it was bought that it had quickly become a narcissistic sewage and nothing to do with photography.
TwoBit 6y ago
The logic for deleting WhatsApp pretty weak and undermines the argument here, especially given the fairly strong encryption WhatsApp uses.
- eitland 6y ago
  Just remember that while WhatsApp encryption seems really good, they still upload backups of all your conversations unencrypted to Googles servers. If you trust Google to protect them that is fine. Personally I don't expect Google to fail me in that particular way. But it also means any E2E-encryption argument from WhatsApp goes out the window.
AnonC 6y ago
Also stop (or reduce) following the news and online aggregators of news (like reddit, HN, etc.). You'll feel even better and freer.
gigatexal 6y ago
I did the same and have never felt better. I just replaced the addiction with twitter. Oh well
okareaman 6y ago
I don't understand these naive do gooders who want everyone to delete their social media. "I did it and I feel better!" Really, how much more self-centered can you get? I'm a retiree. My kids and family are scattered. Social media is an important part of maintaining family cohesion and my role in the family. I've reconnected with old friends that I otherwise would have lost forever. Deleting social media would impoverish my life and drastically increase my loneliness and isolation. Do gooders: give it a rest.
- randycupertino 6y ago
  So everyone in your family should be beholden to a for-profit data scraping company and advertising platform? How about use old fashioned ways to keep in touch with your family like phone calls and letters. Text pictures via a group text. Facebook can decrease family cohesion and alienate family members as well. I stopped posting on there and stopped logging into my accounts after too many Fox news brainwashed great aunts and uncles ranted about how minorities should get out of the country or the NFL should ban black players who kneeled. If you're lonely and isolated, consider moving closer to family and interacting with them in real life instead of expecting your family to sacrifice their data privacy to make Mark Zuckerberg more rich.
  - okareaman 6y ago
    Facebook is free. It is understood that we provide clues about ourselves for advertisers as a way to keep it free. Facebook is convenient. You're seriously suggesting in 2020 that my nieces and nephews correspond with me by letter? That's pretty hilarious actually. I can't move closer because I can't be in 10 locations at once. My family gets along. We agree not to talk about politics. It works for us. I'm sorry about your family.
    - randycupertino 6y ago
      Our family gets along too, I don't know why you're trying to imply we don't? We're all far flung and have an annual cousins party at the lake. My 13 nieces and nephews aren't on facebook because it's for "the olds." Some of them have instagrams but they have multiple accounts and different "finstas" - candid fake accounts they only share with certain friends etc and delete and remake new accounts with friends etc constantly. They're also on TikTok lately but generally will text the funny ones not through the ap. We have a family group text and send photos. I send them snail mail bday cards with cash in them, sometimes they write back and sometimes they'll call and say thank you or text etc. Group text is free too in case any of your family members have ethical reasons why they don't want to be on facebook or want to get off it to improve their mental health. I'm sorry about your loneliness and isolation. I agree that Facebook is convenient and free but imo not worth the time sink. Cheers.
m0xte 6y ago
I never had any of them and feel great! No LinkedIn either!
mister_hn 6y ago
it all depends on how do you maintain relations. Living abroad, having a few friends and contact locally but a lot of connections non easily reachable physically makes the shutdown of FB, WA or IG hard, especially when most of your contacts uses ONLY the aforementioned platforms and nothing else. That means killing your connections and cut bridges with people.
inDigiNeous 6y ago
I only use facebook these days by systemically unfollowing all my friends. And I mean all, I don't follow anyone. The experience is much better this way, I can sometimes check what my friends have posted, and I am not forced to see all the crap. I unfollow most pages also. Can recommend testing this method out.
qwerty456127 6y ago
Why did you delete WhatsApp? Don't you have to text some people occasionally? Or how do you communicate? Do you use Signal, Telegram, E-mail or something instead? BTW I also had to use Facebook once - because everybody at the uni did so its Messenger was the way we texted each other. Now I use Telegram and WhatsApp. I mean Instagram is a pure time&attention wasting tool, Facebook is the same + a messenger (which is an essential thing everybody needs nowadays - that's the way we communicate with people who don't stand right in front of us at the moment), WhatsApp is a pure messenger, isn't it?
- wackro 6y ago
  There's literally a section on how he switched to Telegram.
  - qwerty456127 6y ago
    I see. Thanks. It was deep down there. By the way, I've just came up with an idea of what's really wrong with messengers like Telegram and WhatsApp: you can't read a message without telling the sender you've read it. And this forces you to answer. This way I often have to avoid viewing a message so they don't get notified. This is a huge annoyance which kind of ruins my life every now and then. Thanks G-d they don't insist to show when you are online. I would even pay some reasonable subscription to have a stealth mode so people would have no means to see whether I am online and if I've read their message.
    - wackro 6y ago
      In whatsapp you can turn this off in privacy settings
      - qwerty456127 6y ago
        Cool! But you can't edit messages in WhatsApp and desktop support is very bad - I need both all the time.
  - vonseel 6y ago
thenoblesunfish 6y ago
WhatsApp is indeed a sticky one, but I manage to replace it with Signal.
brnt 6y ago
I never made a Facebook account. These problems seemed quite apparent to me from the get go. Fundamentally, handing over control to your data and connections just seemed like a bad idea with tons of potential for misuse, even if it was well intentioned. Anybody else never really joined social media?
- teddyh 6y ago
  Yo.
- rimliu 6y ago
  Could you explain how does having FB account hand over control to your connections?
  - brnt 6y ago
    1. What's the source of truth for your contact list now? 2. Do you have backups? Can you make them? 3. What guarantees for consistency have you? 4. How do you know handing over such private info will never be abused? Did you hand out your contact list before to third parties? 5. How do you control the spread of your contact info?
textita 6y ago
There are too many fake account. You dont even need a phone number to create a fake account . http://textita.com http://textita.com
a_imho 6y ago
Deleting an account is giving up control over that. Keep the account just never log in. Better yet, add a few GBs of noise.
chiefalchemist 6y ago
My routine includes what I call Facebookless Friday. That is, no FB from Thur pm to Sat am. It's liberating. I'm in the process of adding a day on each end. Or perhaps going *less Mon, Wed and Fri.
hellofunk 6y ago
I deleted my Facebook account several months ago, I did not merely deactivate it, I did a full deletion. Then about one month ago I got a notification for a Facebook group. I wonder how that works? Either Facebook groups can somehow contact you based on an email address rather than an existing profile, or some other weird shenanigans are going on that reflect the account was never actually deleted and some bug somewhere managed to still get a notification to me.
bobsyouruncle11 6y ago
Great summary of Facebook newsfeed, loved it! I've also deleted facebook and instagram over a year ago and don't miss them at all. I do keep use WhatsApp though as there aren't that many people using Signal yet. I'm wondering, how many people contacted you on Telegram once you messaged them you're deleting WhatsApp. Did anyone make the switch? Or did they find any other means of communication with you - text messaged, emails, etc. I'm wondering how many people I'll stop interacting with if I delete whatsapp.
jonnypotty 6y ago
Enjoy your honeymoon
corycollier 6y ago
I did the same thing a couple of weeks ago. Social media platforms have turned into a disease. https://www.corycollier.com/2020/06/10/why-i-removed-my-social-media-apps/ https://www.corycollier.com/2020/06/10/why-i-removed-my-soci...
- app4soft 6y ago
  > Social media platforms have turned into a disease To be honest, OP deleted only Facebook, WhatsApp, and Instagram accounts (all Facebook family), but NOT Twitter[0] [0] https://twitter.com/shogan85/status/1275924633678684161 https://twitter.com/shogan85/status/1275924633678684161
fit2rule 6y ago
I treat my FB and other accounts just like any other inbox. And that's the rub: all of these things can be replaced with email. Email - plain old text - can carry just as much info as all the web things, to my eyes - and, doesn't allow for much emerald-king manipulation behind the mirrors and smoke, either. If only my friends and family all understood how to use email properly, in the first place. Because this writing skill has been supplanted by software-usage skills. Why learn to top/quote/bottom, or properly cite text, or contract a useful file-archive and include URL's .. when this 'is what the computer is for' .. Seriously though, I could radically reduce my social sphere down to the people I know can handle email etiquette and methodology well enough, and I won't need any other third-party service. Even my pizza guy can handle an email. However, literacy being what it is, people don't have time or motivation to become proficient in email, as a tool. Its far easier just to swipe and touch things to share information, apparently .. perhaps the time has come for me to finally write an email client, hmm ..
JoeMayoBot 6y ago
Good for OP - I hope more people will do that. There used to be a saying on the Internet, "Don't feed the trolls", but FB is breathing life into the very worst edges of the human experience imaginable. I hope that enough people leave the service that this activity will end (or at least diminish). I tried to delete FB a while ago. However, I still need an account for professional reasons, so had to open a new one. This time, I blocked all requests from people to avoid the negativity in my stream. Instead it's only groups and page traffic that I need to see and that's worked out pretty well.
ece 6y ago
Same.
BrandoElFollito 6y ago
One evening, I deleted my Reddit account when I realized I was angry responding to some insignificant comment. I also realized that the hundred thousands points I had mean exactly nothing. It was a relief beyond what I expected. I created a new account for the only sake to ask questions on the tech subreds which are of interest. I do not read r/all and other similar trash subreds

420 points by shog_hn 6y ago

I have accounts on many platforms, including those 3. If you feel like you can't give something up, that's a good reason to spend a few weeks breaking the addiction. When I did that for BBC News and 9gag, I decided that I didn't want to go back to reading those sites (although I do click through sometimes from HN). I still use Facebook messages through mbasic.facebook.com on an old phone. I don't use 3G (or 4G or 5G), but read books on my phone or offline Wikipedia when on the bus. The news feed never interested me; it was all about having contact Lists, organising Events, and discussing topics in common-interest Groups. WhatsApp won't work on my old iOS 6, so I use it on Bluestacks and check it only when needed. The group chats on there would drive me crazy if they actually made notifications on my phone. Instagram seems to be full of pretty girls and memes, which I guess isn't that different to 9gag in some ways. Instead of complaining about data being sold, why don't we try to build a better social network? CouchSurfing put up a paywall. The community is moving en-masse to BeWelcome, a donation-funded, volunteer-driven, open-source, ad-free platform. The BeWelcome site is managed under a French non-profit, BeVolunteer: the same structure as Wikipedia and Wikimedia. I think that other projects could be part of the same organisation. Why stop at hospitality exchange? I think that if BeWelcome can get critical mass, a related site could then break into mainstream social networking.

deviation 6y ago

I'm getting quite sick of reading these blanket templated "I stopped using X and I feel great!" blog posts. Don't get me wrong, having more freedoms is an extraordinary thing. But everything has a valid use-case, including Facebook. Blanket deleting social media at this point just feels like a cheap-shot to get clicks and overshadows the more realistic benefits such as reconnecting with old friends, talking to tech illiterate family members, etc.

standardUser 6y ago

WhatsApp is a popular communication interface. Giving up WhatsApp is like giving up email or texting or phone calls. In some countries, it's a more dominate form of communication than any of those. If you want to give up communicating remotely with humans, OK I guess. Have fun. But giving up one specific interface? That's meaningless. It's like giving up Sauvignon Blanc but drinking Pinot Grigio everyday.

rvz 6y ago

Very insightful blogpost and good for the author. It shows its possible to get away from Facebook's social network drug store which they purposefully make it hard for you to quit or delete your profile(s). With Facebook, there's no such thing as 'privacy' and 'account deletion'. I hope that everyone else isn't addicted to another drug that is called 'Twitter' which one of its side-effects is 'getting the worst out of everyone' and all sorts of nasty media stories spreading over there.

symmitchry 6y ago
Deleting Twitter was easy for me because the platform is so antagonistic on mobile if you don't use their app. I don't even click on links people send me anymore.
- trophycase 6y ago
  Same with reddit. I don't want to use your damn app!! Guess I won't use it at all. Reddit just infuriated me anyway so that was just the nail in the coffin
  - Baeocystin 6y ago
    The day they get rid of old.reddit.com is the day I quit for good. And I'll be honest, although the writing is on the wall, I really don't want that to happen. I like BBS-style forums! But I refuse to subject myself to the dark-pattern morass that is modern social media design.
    - Fogest 6y ago
      I feel so much faster using the old reddit site. Yes it doesn't look as pretty but it's faster in multiple ways. The site loads much quicker due to less bloat, but UI wise it's also a lot more efficient. Moderating some subreddits I feel like I often have to stick with the new reddit design just to use everything properly and it gets annoying having to flip flop back and forth.
    - 6y ago

ShaneMcGowan 6y ago

Social media bad

usr1106 6y ago

I never had WhatsApp or Instagram. I have Facebook for historical reasons that I searched a job more than a decode ago when Facebook was a thing. I have not logged in since January, so for some 5 months now. I think my record is 9 months without logging in.

usr1106 6y ago
Forgot to mention: occasionally I spend too much time writing trivial HN comments, which don't make me a better programmer.

johannes1234321 6y ago

I got off Facebook 1.5 years ago as well. Removed my special Facebook browser I used (removed the app long ago) and at first it was weird as I was used to hitting it, whenever I had a few minutes of nothing. But after a week or so it felt great. Less screen time, less mental burden from seeing "stupid" posts, less useless discussions, ... Couldn't get of WhatsApp, yet, as it's too often the default for friends and family.

standardUser 6y ago
I lived in a foreign country recently and Facebook groups were far and away the most important tool I had for meeting people and establishing myself. WhatsApp was the dominate form of communicating with people who lived there. And Instagram was the primary way I kept in touch with my closest friends on other continents. These things are useful, and just because they can be misused does not make them any less useful.
- johannes1234321 6y ago
  No doubts that there are uses. Travelling Indonesia WhatsApp was a must (due to free basics / internet.org they were most reliable communication with local Services) and now in Corona lockdowns many shops here in Germany don't update their website, but Facebook with current opening times and offers. However I spent way too much time on it and Facebook is way to hungry for personal data.

ericol 6y ago

I lived in Spain for 5 years and then I returned to my country 13 years ago. Some 8 years ago, Facebook was something that I really enjoyed using. I left way too many friends, close friends, and well, lovers behind. Facebook allowed me to have a healthy relationship with them, even if at a distance. I went back to Spain on 2010 for the wedding of a close friend, and it was like I've been out of the country for 2 months instead of 2 years, and that was mostly thanks to Facebook. I can't point exactly at the moment when all that went to shit (May be 5, 6 years ago?) but nowadays FB is a constant string of shitty videos from companies trying to stay afloat, shitty videos made by shitty people, fake news by the thousand - and people adhering to the fake news narrative! - and stupid motivational shit of the kind that really demotivates you, people viciously attacking other people for the stupidest reasons... I disabled my account some 3 months ago, and I feel much better without it. Instagram, on the other side, is a different beast. Even with the strong push by FB in order to monetize the network, I think that fact that people can't easily share other people's post, and are kind of forced to post their own material still makes it an interesting place. As long as instagram does not allow reposting, I think it'll maintain a certain degree of quality. I also have disabled my insta account, but I do miss the information from the people I was following there (Mostly, artists and crafstmen of all kinds).

marvindanig 6y ago
I make it a point to check if an upstart is from bay area or not. If they are, my first assumption is that behind all that fancy "awesome" talk there is a sugar-coated sociopath that has been vetted and backed by a popular venture firm. Bail. Find an alternative from Europe or Canada instead. Or simply let it go.
amatecha 6y ago
I haven't used FB regularly in about 3 years now (after being an early adopter and heavy user), and honestly the times I logged in to see all the "happy birthday!" notifications, I couldn't believe how far the platform had devolved since I last logged in. It's one of the biggest disappointments of modern technology for me. Such amazing unity of entire communities and families, worldwide, being turned into such an exploitative and IMO harmful platform. There's a bit of signal in the noise (in the form of actual worthwhile friend/family/community posts), but unfortunately for me it's simply not worth the effort of wading through an endless supply of ragebait, propaganda and straight-up misinformation.

haunter 6y ago

I only have Facebook (Messenger) because my larger family use it for instant messaging but we are willing to move on. What's a good alternative that has a web client at least when you are on desktop + you can video call too?

fossuser 6y ago
Signal and Matrix/Riot are the best replacement options. You can pay $10/month for your own Modular.im Matrix server host and use that with your family (it also funds the devs). They have Jitsi support for video (you can also just use Jitsi stand alone). I think signal also has video calling, but not sure about group call support. Both have mobile and desktop apps. Both are encrypted and ad free. Matrix is federated, but modular.im makes setup easy.

artifact_44 6y ago

I too have felt the benefit of complete social isolation.

forgotmypw17 6y ago

I deleted them, but eventually I made new accounts. Sometimes I just really need to get in touch with someone via Facebook or Instagram, though not many WhatsApp users in my sphere. I hardly ever use them, but sometimes it comes in handy. For example, at least twice I found someone's wallet or ID and was able to contact them quickly using Facebook, because their name was the same.

diego_moita 6y ago

> Telegram is by far a superior product to WhatsApp. For one simple reason: bots. One of my Raspberry Pi projects is a bot to delete from the family group any post containing the name of politicians. This wiped out political flame-wars and fake news. It is very easy to make Telegram bots. You basically create a website, register it in a dynamic dns, add an ssh certificate (letsencrypt or your own) and add it to your group.

ciarannolan 6y ago
Genius. How large and active is that group chat?
- diego_moita 6y ago
  Not too big, about 50 people. It is not a perfect solution, sometimes people send images with political memes. For these I made another bot that temporarily puts the offender under quarantine. Also, remember to use regular expressions to filter out common letter substituions. So, in Brazil, to filter out our very stupid president (Bolsonaro) I use: b[0o][1l][5s][0o]n[a4]r[0o]
  - ciarannolan 6y ago
    >>family group >Not too big, about 50 people. Your country has a different definition of "big family" than mine :) My family WhatsApp is 5 people.

amanzi 6y ago

I'm in a similar boat to the author and have also recently deleted my Facebook and Instagram account - although I'll note that the sneaky "to be deleted" state is now 30 days instead of just 7. But, similar to the author, I'm having more difficulty getting rid of WhatsApp. This is my primary means of communicating with friends and family all over the world. And for some of them I know it's just not an option to try get them to switch to another platform, especially since I'm not sure which is the better platform. In my opinion, WhatsApp strikes the perfect balance of security and usability. Telegram makes me nervous due to the Russian roots and the numerous security concerns I've read online. Signal is overly secure to the point that usability for regular folk suffers (I've personally had terrible experience with their support after losing a bunch of SMS messages.) Matrix, Riot, MatterMost, and many other opensource apps all look good but not overly user-friendly for novices. What else is there?

shitgoose 6y ago
Durov (Telegram) had a fallout with Russian government elite who raided his business and now lives in exile in UK (last time I checked). He has no direct links to KGB. Indirect - who knows.
ccktlmazeltov 6y ago
Why would anyone want to get rid of Whastapp.
- amanzi 6y ago
  Only because Facebook owns WhatsApp and people who dislike Facebook as a company do not want to use any of their products.
- bigbugbag 6y ago
  Because facebook. Also security issues, lack of privacy, lack of proper encryption, censorship, etc. among a long trail of reasons. Also whatsapp founder quitting and leaving 850millions dollars on the table doing so over the way facebook makes money out of whatsapp and for th way facebook made him mislead the european commission to have them green light the sale of whatsapp to facebook. He also called repeatedly for people to get rid of Facebook services. for exemple this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WhatsApp_snooping_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WhatsApp_snooping_scandal and this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reception_and_criticism_of_WhatsApp_security_and_privacy_features https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reception_and_criticism_of_Wha...

celestialcheese 6y ago

It's tough for me to get rid of facebook these days, purely because of FB marketplace. It has almost completely eliminated craigslist in my area for a lot of used items and is significantly nicer to buy/sell things in your area. I got rid of the timeline by unfollowing _everyone_. Timeline is completely empty. It's bliss

commoner 6y ago
There are other local marketplace platforms, such as OfferUp, that offer the same experience as Facebook Marketplace without tracking users as severely as Facebook does. https://offerup.com https://offerup.com
- est31 6y ago
  But if nobody is using it in the area you live in, those platforms don't help you. The fact that such software exists isn't what brings the value to users, it's the fact that other people use it that you want to interact with. The term for this phenomenon is "network effect", and Facebook just simply buys up tons of platforms that have network effects.
  - commoner 6y ago
    In my area, OfferUp has a significantly larger selection of items than Facebook Marketplace. If you mainly use Facebook Marketplace, it's worth looking at OfferUp, Letgo, or other local marketplaces to see if that's the case for your location.
ntsplnkv2 6y ago
More evidence that Facebook should be broken up. Or, I should be able to create a separate FB Marketplace account.
- wackro 6y ago
  If people have shifted from other platforms onto FB then doesn't that say the opposite?

stickfigure 6y ago

"I use Facebook, WhatsApp, and Instagram, and I feel fine!" -- most of the planet, but you'd never know it by reading HN

Barrin92 6y ago
people said the same thing about smoking 80 years ago and here we are. I'm not sure appealing to the prevailing common sense on long term issues of public health or socio-economics is particularly relevant.
cryptoz 6y ago
Facebook intentionally made about 400,000 feel sad/depressed on purpose. They bragged that they had 'informed consent' to perform psychological experiments on all Facebook users simply because you joined the site and agreed to their long legalese T&C. Maybe the rest of the world feels better on Facebook. But that will only last until Facebook randomly decides one day to throw them into a depression.
- randycupertino 6y ago
  > Facebook intentionally made about 400,000 feel sad/depressed on purpose. They bragged that they had 'informed consent' to perform psychological experiments on all Facebook users simply because you joined the site and agreed to their long legalese T&C. As a certified clinical research professional (CCRP), this is pretty outrageous to hear. Might be an interesting discussion for one of our upcoming glorified journal club roundtables. TY!
lancesells 6y ago
It sure seems like most of the planet doesn't feel fine. I feel social media is only adding to that.
bigbugbag 6y ago
"I'm used by Facebook, WhatsApp, and Instagram, and I feel down!" -- most of the planet.

stevage 6y ago

Scientifically, it's not a robust conclusion. The kind of person who wants to delete FB etc is the kind of person who will feel better after they do it. Personally, I just use FB in a pretty restricted way. I unfollow most friends unless they post stuff I like engaging with. I give FB the bare minimum of my own personal data, and block all the ads they serve. I mostly post questions for discussion, rather than highlights of my life. I don't use Insta, although I'm considering it. Lots of friends have described really fun, healthy little communities they're part of. (I still think of Instagram as a photography community, which is how old I am.) I don't use WhatsApp by choice, but occasionally it's someone else's preferred way to communicate. I don't have a problem with it.

dijksterhuis 6y ago
> I still think of Instagram as a photography community, which is how old I am. Wait what? When did that change? I must be old too...
- grawprog 6y ago
  It still kind of is, though, from what i've seen of people who use it, it's become more of a marketing platform now. Both, personal and professional.
- hakanderyal 6y ago
  It's the biggest ecommerce platform in some social circles.
- stevage 6y ago
  Years ago. I mean, ostensibly, it is still about sharing photos. But originally, it was more about "I took a really nice photo of something in the world, and I'd like you to see it". Now most of the photos are selfies, or otherwise express the personality of the poster, and it isn't about "photography" per se.
anukriti 6y ago
> I don't use WhatsApp by choice, but occasionally it's someone else's preferred way to communicate. I don't have a problem with it. I think this is a good point, just like you are expecting people to contact you on telegram there must be some people who would like you to contact them on whataspp.

EGreg 6y ago

Now what if you delete HN next? Will you feel even better?

kilo_bravo_3 6y ago

People who get sad looking at other people's lives on Instagram are likely so emotionally fragile that they'd probably get sad reading a book about other people's lives. Burn all books. "I burned my books, magazines, and eReaders and I FEEL FUCKING AMAZING OH MY GOD IF YOU COULD EXPERIENCE THIS LEVEL OF PURE UNADULTERATED JOY AND CONTENTMENT YOU WOULD SHIT YOURSELF."

JMTQp8lwXL 6y ago
False equivalence. Images and written text have different effects on the brain and emotions. You follow famous people on social media, who have 1,000x your wealth, travel all the time, get adequate sleep, meals, and exercise -- and it can chip away at your self-worth in a way books just can't.
- imgabe 6y ago
  If someone else's good fortune makes you feel bad, this is a problem with you that you need to remedy in yourself, not a problem with the fact that other people have good fortune. Sorry, editing to clarify because this sounds unnecessarily combative. What I mean is your self-worth should not be externally determined by where you stand in some (mostly imaginary) ranking system compared to random strangers or celebrities, thus it should not be chipped away at by seeing anyone doing better than you in some aspect. This is a crucial skill to learn. You don't have to let your mood and self-worth to be subject to random vagaries of whatever you happen to be looking at at the moment.
  - cambalache 6y ago
    Sure, if you are a self-sufficient adult with health and your life more or less in order. But these apps dont prey on that kind of people.They prey on naive teenagers who still are maturing, they prey on technologically clueless senior (and not so senior) citizens who believe everything that is on the Internet, they prey on people disenfranchised, the losers in the dating game in the job market. The mental health damage to those kind of populations is huge.

imgabe 6y ago

Is there some aspect of WhatsApp that I'm missing? The way I use it, it is purely a messaging app. No different than text messages really. How does this get lumped in with Facebook and Instagram? (other than being owned by the same company).

mandelbrotwurst 6y ago
I think it's mostly that it's easier and more common to make larger groups, which then inevitably end up being a lot noisier.
weston 6y ago
I think OP is deleting WhatsApp because Facebook is the parent company. But I agree, WhatsApp is not a social network site but a messaging tool.
- bigbugbag 6y ago
  A messaging tool is by definition a social network.
- shog_hn 6y ago
  That's it. The clincher for me was when they announced that they would be starting to share user data from WhatsApp with parent company Facebook for ad targeting purposes.
bigbugbag 6y ago
Yes. you are missing the part where it's used for surveillance, for collecting personal data and exploiting it, for giving a false sense of security, and so on. Basically facebook being facebook and doing facebook things to the people that were escaping its grasp.
- lsh123 6y ago
  Citation needed.

kjgkjhfkjf 6y ago

Comparing your inside with others' outsides will make you unhappy. It's important to learn not to do that, because it can happen in offline situations too. Deleting Facebook etc. is not the solution; it seems like the author threw out the baby with the bathwater here.

bigbugbag 6y ago
Facebook is entirely designed around this, being used by facebook without falling to this would mean an incredible mental load and fatigue that would take a toll on your ability to properly function through the day. getting rid of facebook is the right move here.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

ccktlmazeltov 6y ago

Recently I went to Milan and remembered that I had a good friend there. I tried to reach out to him on Facebook and it turns out that he had deleted his account. I couldn't reach out to him again because I never knew his email, or really had much friends in common. It was pretty sad when I think about it. I'm happy that with Facebook I can still keep in touch with most of my friends that I made around the world traveling. I end up meeting quite some friends that I haven't seen in decades when I travel. I understand that some people are unhappy about the downsides of social networks, and Facebook in particular, but I wish more people would realize the upsides as well.

anukriti 6y ago
Agreed. Platforms like facebook are very easy to find and contact with old friends, but when people delete the account it becomes 10x tougher to find them again. I wish people improve their self control when it comes to using apps like instagram and facebook.
- ntsplnkv2 6y ago
  How can you expect people to have self control over a system which does everything in its power to weaken/stop that self control? Facebook in 2010 was what we all loved. It's garbage now, and we all know it.
  - annadane 6y ago
    You think the IPO in 2012 made things worse?
andrewzah 6y ago
Wechat/Line/Kakaotalk handle this without the damages of Facebook and the like. At least for KakaoTalk, it's not a "social network" in the same way your contacts list isn't one, but since everyone [in Korea] is on Kakaotalk it makes adding and maintaining friends easy. You don't have to worry about people deleting their accounts because there's nothing -to- delete an account over; it's just a chat app that everyone uses. It would be nice if there were a similar app in the US with that kind of market share, instead of everything being scattered among various apps, etc. The only real issue I felt with deleting my facebook was losing access to facebook groups. I was very close to making a burner account to participate in some groups, but I never ended up wanting it that -that- badly as meetup sufficed.

anukriti 6y ago

Try using Signal side by side with telegram. Telegram has more features but it works the same way as whatsapp. On the other hand signal is trying its best to provide privacy which whatsapp and telegram never do

thekyle 6y ago
I think you're being a little harsh on WhatsApp. Although I use Signal personally, I consider WhatsApp to be a good middle. It has more users and features than Signal but also much better privacy than Telegram.

davesque 6y ago

I still have a FB account strictly to do messaging with a certain group of friends. I would feel great about browsing FB too if it didn't feel so much like I was contributing to the downfall of modern society.

nso95 6y ago

Unfollowing all news sources on Facebook has improved the experience for me. I would see an article, and before long be reading comments from white supremacists and/or SJWs.

ntsplnkv2 6y ago
Yep, Facebook in my day (I deleted it in 2014), was a lot better. It was just people saying what they did, sharing photos. It seemed a lot less political. And companies weren't fully onboard yet in using their ad campaigns, and politicians weren't either. And perhaps too bad actors weren't involved.
- bigbugbag 6y ago
  Facebook has not changed a bit, it was a glorified birthday reminder capturing as much personal data as possible and it still is. Well except maybe that at some point it started to aim at replacing the internet on order to keep the investor storytime running, which had the interesting side effect of facebook putting a dictator in power[1]. [1]: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2017-12-07/how-rodrigo-duterte-turned-facebook-into-a-weapon-with-a-little-help-from-facebook https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2017-12-07/how-rodri...
  - ntsplnkv2 6y ago
    Obviously I meant from an end user perspective. Behind the scenes FB was nefarious then and now.

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ImaCake 6y ago

Whenever this topic comes up, there are always a lot of comments to the effect of "facebook isn't the problem, you are". Maybe it is best to think of facebook like sugary food. Many people have no trouble having one piece of chocolate and then leaving the rest for later. Many other people are unable to stop themselves from downing the whole 200g block. I think these comments come from people who have no trouble engaging with facebook without any unhealthy habits forming. But there are people who are unable to engage with facebook in a healthy way. I personally struggle with facebook's newsfeed and have to put up some serious barriers to ensure I don't waste an hour of my day looking at it. Presumably many of the negative comments about how terrible facebook is come from people like me. The first step to helping those who are impacted negatively is to acknowledge that there is a real problem here. The next is to attack the problem with various solutions. Some of them facebook will not like.

deleted 6y ago
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faitswulff 6y ago
I think of so many human problems as the "sugary food" class of problems now. Internet addiction†, pornography, gossip, sensationalist headlines. All sugary food. Our brains are wired to seek out that hit of glucose or dopamine in resource scarce environments and it's maladaptive in the long-term for resource rich ones. † which is why I'm here on HN, if I'm honest
- anon9001 6y ago
  "Internet addiction" seems like a different thing than the rest of those to me. Being addicted to discovering new information and sharing with others sounds pretty healthy to me. I think the difference with HN vs FB is that at some level, you are driving your HN interaction, while FB is driving your FB interaction. I think it only becomes "internet addiction" when you're not the one in control.
  - usr1106 6y ago

anta40 6y ago

I still use Facebook, WhatsApp, and Instagram. Why? Facebook: I met lots of elementary/junior high school friends many years ago who have been lost contact with more than 2 decades via this platform. Useful, isn't it? Remember, it was before 2010. And I don't spend much time scrolling on my timeline because I prefer group discussions. Remember that Google had shut down it's consumer version of Google Plus. WhatsApp: My de facto messenger app. Many years ago, it was BlackBerry Messenger. Now Whatsapp. I like this app because it's essentially just a messenger app without useless stuffs like news, job search etc (yes Line, I'm looking at you). Telegram is also cool. It's open source so you can make your own modified version. Instagram: Ahh Instagram. I don't want to sound like an grumpy old man. Do you remember that in 2010 till 2012, it was a "privillege" only iOS users can enjoy? And when they announced Android version, we Android users shouted in joy? I'm a photography enthusiast so I purposefully post my photos on it. You won't find my latest dinner photos or selfies on beautiful beaches there, promise. I also follow the accounts of some famous photographers and photographers hashtags to provide me more visual references. People some also to forget that many many years ago, back in the film era, gaining recognition is harder: you need to build years of reputation, publish your works on magazines, do exhibitions on gallery etc. Now? We have social media. Waaayyy easier. Post your photos and in less than 5 minutes, people in Africa or Alaska can enjoy them. Even any kid can do that. Despite the useless craps, I'm glad that there are people who still use social medias in a sane way :)

GuiA 6y ago
As a photographer, i can guarantee that spending 10 hours on preparing an exhibition will be much more useful than 10 hours “engaging” on Instagram. A gallery show will bring people to you and your work, let you sell prints, collect emails, potentially meet publishers/other curators/etc. Good luck getting noticed in all the noise on Instagram, or making any money.
graposaymaname 6y ago
> WhatsApp: My de facto messenger app. Many years ago, it was BlackBerry Messenger. Now Whatsapp. I like this app because it's essentially just a messenger app without useless stuffs like news, job search etc (yes Line, I'm looking at you) Well, it does have some not-so-essential features like "whatsapp status". It should have just been a messenger instead of switching over to the social media hype. It'd be myopic if we ignore all the persuasive techniques they employ.

arminiusreturns 6y ago

One word of warning about this approach: it becomes one in a set of red flags about you if you are ever being investigated by any entity at the national level. Not having a facebook is viewed as an outlier, and hence will contribute to some unknown weight of your other red flags that once triggered will put you into national security letter, warrant-less wiretap type areas. Beyond that, facebook retains shadow profiles on people even if they don't have accounts, or have deleted their accounts... ...so my suggestion is to keep the account but start clearing the data out and poisoning it. Be especially careful about the IP's you log into it from (and randomize that MAC!).

quadhome 6y ago
If you ever warrant an investigation by a nation-state, then having or not having a Facebook will be a tiny piece of your OpSec.
- arminiusreturns 6y ago
  Security is about layers, and these days you don't know private entities aren't abusing nation-state capabilities and databases... beyond that, I disagree. Especially in this current state of things with things like protests going on, it's naive to think the same cointelpro tactics aren't being applied to protestors and even those just associated with them in the social graph (like they were to occupy). Fus1on centers for one do this sort of thing unconstitutionally and have access to most of the same databases besides being regional.
randycupertino 6y ago
> One word of warning about this approach: it becomes one in a set of red flags about you if you are ever being investigated by any entity at the national level. Not having a facebook is viewed as an outlier... Isn't that all the more reason to do it, though? The more people who delete it or don't have accounts, the more normalized it will become to not have social media profiles.
- arminiusreturns 6y ago

kayman 6y ago

I've been off Facebook for many years now. I deleted my account when I found myself typing "f" into my browser. Facebook dropdown, select and lose time scrolling feeds. I never got into instagram. As an american expat I find whatsapp convenient to contact my family overseas using their day-to-day telephone.

davidandgoliath 6y ago

Felt great, yet still needs to post publicly on 3rd party sites to attract attention: Sure thing.

Markoff 6y ago

aka How I become hermit good luck deleting Whatsapp (and Messenger) in Europe, you essentialy cut yourself from most of the communication also replacing Whatsapp with E2E Signal encryption by default with unsafe Telegram with no encryption by default and even optional with questionable quality doesn't seem like very clever choice, I would have expected switch to Signal, Riot etc. instead notgoriously unsafe service, which doesn't even provide videocalls

ipiz0618 6y ago

I understand the motivations behind deleting Facebook and Instagram, but switching messaging platforms is really not as easy as how the article made it look like. When most people in your circle are on WhatsApp, you're tied to it as well. Sometimes even your bosses and colleagues need to reach you with that. Also if you just delete the account for Telegram there's less motivation for friends to reach you to just catch up because they don't use Telegram. Sure your best friends and family will reach you through whatever platform but that's about it. You lose friends. Some are ok with that but others should be aware of what switching messaging platforms costs.

onyva 6y ago

Removing Facebook from my life was the best thing I’ve ever done and I don’t feel I miss anything. Also, will never use any app or service that requires a social account. Facebook was very easy to get reed of in fact. IG I was hesitant, since I like photography. It was obvious though quickly after it was bought that it had quickly become a narcissistic sewage and nothing to do with photography.

TwoBit 6y ago

The logic for deleting WhatsApp pretty weak and undermines the argument here, especially given the fairly strong encryption WhatsApp uses.

eitland 6y ago
Just remember that while WhatsApp encryption seems really good, they still upload backups of all your conversations unencrypted to Googles servers. If you trust Google to protect them that is fine. Personally I don't expect Google to fail me in that particular way. But it also means any E2E-encryption argument from WhatsApp goes out the window.

AnonC 6y ago

Also stop (or reduce) following the news and online aggregators of news (like reddit, HN, etc.). You'll feel even better and freer.

gigatexal 6y ago

I did the same and have never felt better. I just replaced the addiction with twitter. Oh well

okareaman 6y ago

I don't understand these naive do gooders who want everyone to delete their social media. "I did it and I feel better!" Really, how much more self-centered can you get? I'm a retiree. My kids and family are scattered. Social media is an important part of maintaining family cohesion and my role in the family. I've reconnected with old friends that I otherwise would have lost forever. Deleting social media would impoverish my life and drastically increase my loneliness and isolation. Do gooders: give it a rest.

randycupertino 6y ago
So everyone in your family should be beholden to a for-profit data scraping company and advertising platform? How about use old fashioned ways to keep in touch with your family like phone calls and letters. Text pictures via a group text. Facebook can decrease family cohesion and alienate family members as well. I stopped posting on there and stopped logging into my accounts after too many Fox news brainwashed great aunts and uncles ranted about how minorities should get out of the country or the NFL should ban black players who kneeled. If you're lonely and isolated, consider moving closer to family and interacting with them in real life instead of expecting your family to sacrifice their data privacy to make Mark Zuckerberg more rich.
- okareaman 6y ago
  Facebook is free. It is understood that we provide clues about ourselves for advertisers as a way to keep it free. Facebook is convenient. You're seriously suggesting in 2020 that my nieces and nephews correspond with me by letter? That's pretty hilarious actually. I can't move closer because I can't be in 10 locations at once. My family gets along. We agree not to talk about politics. It works for us. I'm sorry about your family.
  - randycupertino 6y ago
    Our family gets along too, I don't know why you're trying to imply we don't? We're all far flung and have an annual cousins party at the lake. My 13 nieces and nephews aren't on facebook because it's for "the olds." Some of them have instagrams but they have multiple accounts and different "finstas" - candid fake accounts they only share with certain friends etc and delete and remake new accounts with friends etc constantly. They're also on TikTok lately but generally will text the funny ones not through the ap. We have a family group text and send photos. I send them snail mail bday cards with cash in them, sometimes they write back and sometimes they'll call and say thank you or text etc. Group text is free too in case any of your family members have ethical reasons why they don't want to be on facebook or want to get off it to improve their mental health. I'm sorry about your loneliness and isolation. I agree that Facebook is convenient and free but imo not worth the time sink. Cheers.

m0xte 6y ago

I never had any of them and feel great! No LinkedIn either!

mister_hn 6y ago

it all depends on how do you maintain relations. Living abroad, having a few friends and contact locally but a lot of connections non easily reachable physically makes the shutdown of FB, WA or IG hard, especially when most of your contacts uses ONLY the aforementioned platforms and nothing else. That means killing your connections and cut bridges with people.

inDigiNeous 6y ago

I only use facebook these days by systemically unfollowing all my friends. And I mean all, I don't follow anyone. The experience is much better this way, I can sometimes check what my friends have posted, and I am not forced to see all the crap. I unfollow most pages also. Can recommend testing this method out.

qwerty456127 6y ago

Why did you delete WhatsApp? Don't you have to text some people occasionally? Or how do you communicate? Do you use Signal, Telegram, E-mail or something instead? BTW I also had to use Facebook once - because everybody at the uni did so its Messenger was the way we texted each other. Now I use Telegram and WhatsApp. I mean Instagram is a pure time&attention wasting tool, Facebook is the same + a messenger (which is an essential thing everybody needs nowadays - that's the way we communicate with people who don't stand right in front of us at the moment), WhatsApp is a pure messenger, isn't it?

wackro 6y ago
There's literally a section on how he switched to Telegram.
- qwerty456127 6y ago
  I see. Thanks. It was deep down there. By the way, I've just came up with an idea of what's really wrong with messengers like Telegram and WhatsApp: you can't read a message without telling the sender you've read it. And this forces you to answer. This way I often have to avoid viewing a message so they don't get notified. This is a huge annoyance which kind of ruins my life every now and then. Thanks G-d they don't insist to show when you are online. I would even pay some reasonable subscription to have a stealth mode so people would have no means to see whether I am online and if I've read their message.
  - wackro 6y ago
    In whatsapp you can turn this off in privacy settings
    - qwerty456127 6y ago
      Cool! But you can't edit messages in WhatsApp and desktop support is very bad - I need both all the time.
- vonseel 6y ago

thenoblesunfish 6y ago

WhatsApp is indeed a sticky one, but I manage to replace it with Signal.

brnt 6y ago

I never made a Facebook account. These problems seemed quite apparent to me from the get go. Fundamentally, handing over control to your data and connections just seemed like a bad idea with tons of potential for misuse, even if it was well intentioned. Anybody else never really joined social media?

teddyh 6y ago
Yo.
rimliu 6y ago
Could you explain how does having FB account hand over control to your connections?
- brnt 6y ago
  1. What's the source of truth for your contact list now? 2. Do you have backups? Can you make them? 3. What guarantees for consistency have you? 4. How do you know handing over such private info will never be abused? Did you hand out your contact list before to third parties? 5. How do you control the spread of your contact info?

textita 6y ago

There are too many fake account. You dont even need a phone number to create a fake account . http://textita.com http://textita.com

a_imho 6y ago

Deleting an account is giving up control over that. Keep the account just never log in. Better yet, add a few GBs of noise.

chiefalchemist 6y ago

My routine includes what I call Facebookless Friday. That is, no FB from Thur pm to Sat am. It's liberating. I'm in the process of adding a day on each end. Or perhaps going *less Mon, Wed and Fri.

hellofunk 6y ago

I deleted my Facebook account several months ago, I did not merely deactivate it, I did a full deletion. Then about one month ago I got a notification for a Facebook group. I wonder how that works? Either Facebook groups can somehow contact you based on an email address rather than an existing profile, or some other weird shenanigans are going on that reflect the account was never actually deleted and some bug somewhere managed to still get a notification to me.

bobsyouruncle11 6y ago

Great summary of Facebook newsfeed, loved it! I've also deleted facebook and instagram over a year ago and don't miss them at all. I do keep use WhatsApp though as there aren't that many people using Signal yet. I'm wondering, how many people contacted you on Telegram once you messaged them you're deleting WhatsApp. Did anyone make the switch? Or did they find any other means of communication with you - text messaged, emails, etc. I'm wondering how many people I'll stop interacting with if I delete whatsapp.

jonnypotty 6y ago

Enjoy your honeymoon

corycollier 6y ago

I did the same thing a couple of weeks ago. Social media platforms have turned into a disease. https://www.corycollier.com/2020/06/10/why-i-removed-my-social-media-apps/ https://www.corycollier.com/2020/06/10/why-i-removed-my-soci...

app4soft 6y ago
> Social media platforms have turned into a disease To be honest, OP deleted only Facebook, WhatsApp, and Instagram accounts (all Facebook family), but NOT Twitter[0] [0] https://twitter.com/shogan85/status/1275924633678684161 https://twitter.com/shogan85/status/1275924633678684161

fit2rule 6y ago

I treat my FB and other accounts just like any other inbox. And that's the rub: all of these things can be replaced with email. Email - plain old text - can carry just as much info as all the web things, to my eyes - and, doesn't allow for much emerald-king manipulation behind the mirrors and smoke, either. If only my friends and family all understood how to use email properly, in the first place. Because this writing skill has been supplanted by software-usage skills. Why learn to top/quote/bottom, or properly cite text, or contract a useful file-archive and include URL's .. when this 'is what the computer is for' .. Seriously though, I could radically reduce my social sphere down to the people I know can handle email etiquette and methodology well enough, and I won't need any other third-party service. Even my pizza guy can handle an email. However, literacy being what it is, people don't have time or motivation to become proficient in email, as a tool. Its far easier just to swipe and touch things to share information, apparently .. perhaps the time has come for me to finally write an email client, hmm ..

JoeMayoBot 6y ago

Good for OP - I hope more people will do that. There used to be a saying on the Internet, "Don't feed the trolls", but FB is breathing life into the very worst edges of the human experience imaginable. I hope that enough people leave the service that this activity will end (or at least diminish). I tried to delete FB a while ago. However, I still need an account for professional reasons, so had to open a new one. This time, I blocked all requests from people to avoid the negativity in my stream. Instead it's only groups and page traffic that I need to see and that's worked out pretty well.

ece 6y ago

Same.

BrandoElFollito 6y ago

One evening, I deleted my Reddit account when I realized I was angry responding to some insignificant comment. I also realized that the hundred thousands points I had mean exactly nothing. It was a relief beyond what I expected. I created a new account for the only sake to ask questions on the tech subreds which are of interest. I do not read r/all and other similar trash subreds