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Mounting clues suggest the coronavirus might trigger diabetes
- znpy 6y agoJesus Christ.
- rogerkirkness 6y agoIt did occur to me in learning more about covid that there are a lot of unexplained autoimmune conditions (HELLP syndrome, Type 1 diabetes) that could be viral in nature.
- SketchySeaBeast 6y ago> that could be viral in nature Wouldn't that mean there would be a viral load indicator? In this case it seems to mimic it because we see the virus doing exactly that. To assume the diabetes is viral would require a virus. > The latest clue comes from an experimental study in miniature lab-grown pancreases published last week suggests that the virus might trigger diabetes by damaging the cells that control blood sugar. That seems like a better explanation - damaging the same elements in an a healthy body that match the same non-functioning elements of a diabetics. Two different causes lead to the same condition.
- rogerkirkness 6y agoFor sure but the virus isn't actually "doing" the damage. The presence of it starts an immune cascade that leads to the damage. So the trigger for T1 diabetes could still be a virus, not because of symptoms but as a result of an immune cascade. Framed that way, a lot of unexplained illness could indeed be friendly fire.
- slumdev 6y agoBlessed be His holy name.
- linuxftw 6y ago> The virus can also induce the production of proteins known as chemokines and cytokines, which can trigger an immune response that might also kill the cells, according to the study8 published in Cell Stem Cell on 19 June. I wonder if there's anything we routinely give to people that might trigger a similar reaction that would explain the rising rates of type 1 diabetes worldwide? Probably nothing. These autoimmune conditions obviously can't be caused by things that intentionally trigger increased immune responses. https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/adjuvants.html https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/adjuvants.html
- newacct583 6y agoThe Shoenfeld/ASIA syndrome hypothesis is fairly new, quite controversial, and so far more or less unsupported by large scale science. It's worth discussing in reasoned environments. Citing it like you do here amounts to an antivax conspiracy theory. Stop it.
- linuxftw 6y agoIt's a conspiracy theory to suggest that some vaccines or their components may contribute to the onset of auto immune diseases? No, it's a hypothesis. What makes it a 'conspiracy theory' is that the CDC and other medical bodies are failing to do any conclusive studies on the use of adjuvants (and vaccines generally) and how they relate to autoimmune disorders. From [1] > Further research is encouraged into the direct associations between vaccines and autoimmune conditions, and the biological mechanisms behind them. I guess this study is saying there's a reasonable hypothesis and further research should be done. Predictably, any scrutiny of vaccine safety is met with calls of 'conspiracy theory.' [1]: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5607155/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5607155/
- arcticbull 6y ago> What makes it a 'conspiracy theory' is that the CDC and other medical bodies are failing to do any conclusive studies on the use of adjuvants (and vaccines generally) and how they relate to autoimmune disorders. There's that conspiracy theory again. Vaccines are definitively, unequivocally safe. So are adjuvants. Juts so we're on the same page common adjuvants include aluminum hydroxide (which numerous studies since the 1970s have shown a lack of adverse effects) and paraffin oil (in use from 400BCE). Vaccines generally are studied unbelievably closely, in no small part because of the unwarranted attention they've been receiving, wait for it, from conspiracy theorists. It's like aspartame.
- asdfasgasdgasdg 6y agoThis would be bad, but effect sizes are important. If it imposes a 1/1000 incremental odds of developing diabetes, that would be terrible, but not as bad as its 1/100 incremental odds of death.
- khuey 6y agoIf the deaths come to people who are elderly or otherwise close to death anyways and the diabetes comes to a bunch of otherwise healthy 18 year olds the impacts could be different than mere effect sizes would indicate. (Type 1 diabetes is like -10 years to life expectancy).
- dminor 6y agoMy wife's cousin's husband developed type 1 diabetes (at 40) after he and his family got over a flu-like illness a couple months ago. They tested negative for covid but this makes me wonder.
- makomk 6y agoApparently the flu might be able to cause type 1 diabetes too: https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn22456-diabetes-linked-to-flu/ https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn22456-diabetes-linked... (In general, it seems like other viruses have a lot of odd and rare effects that just don't get as much attention as anything involving Covid-19, giving the dubious impression that it's somehow different from other viruses in this regard.)
- zaroth 6y agoI am not a doctor but both my kids are T1D so I am quite familiar with it. This part stood out to me; > In most people with type 1 diabetes, the body’s immune cells start destroying β-cells — which are responsible for producing the hormone insulin — in the pancreas, often suddenly. In Gnadt’s case, Hollstein suspected that the virus had destroyed his β-cells, because his blood didn’t contain the types of immune cells that typically damage the pancreatic islets where the β-cells live. If the virus damages the islets it could suppress insulin production, but without an autoimmune response there’s reason to be hopeful that the damage is only temporary and that the pancreas can recover. TFA says that whether the virus directly attacks cells or induces an immune response, and whether the damage is permanent or not, are both areas under active investigation.
- zaroth 6y agoI will add that it's very common for what doctors believe to be "latent" T1D to be "triggered" by a viral episode. The theory is that the body is somehow primed to have the auto-immune response, and that it is essentially inevitable, but it takes some unrelated stress/immune response to kick off the cascading failure. In that regard it wouldn't be surprising to see the typical rate of T1D diagnosis just happening to be triggered by the currently predominant virus, i.e. COVID, but in that case you would expect to see the tell-tale antibodies, and the overall incidence rate of T1D in the population would not spike.
- underdeserver 6y agoThis thing is really, really bad.
- pvarangot 6y agoA lot of viruses trigger T1D, this thing is mostly getting a lot of press and researchers attention. It's also so contagious that we are getting unprecedented streams of data from symptomatic and asymptomatic patients. SARS was worse with the consequences but less contagious.
- lazyjones 6y agoYes, it's military-grade bad.
- nico_h 6y agoSo many caveats missing from this title and the article it feels like click bait. (It worked, I clicked). Are there per-existing conditions? What is the prevalence of this effect? How long does this conditon last? It can’t be that frequent if it took 6 months to find enough cases. It’s like the Kawasaki-like syndrom in kids with COVID-19. It happens, but what is the prevalence? Just anecdata in the article and « we need more study »
- xivzgrev 6y agoThis shit is scary. It’s bad enough tjat it’s contagious like flu and has a given mortality rate. But now some people are developing chronic conditions after it, like diabetes here. I also read about asthma or other lung conditions. That shit is enough to make me stay at home forever. Then when I do go out I see people not being socially distant, no masks, etc. hope they don’t get this shit...
- peteyPete 6y agoThose who suffer from the virus can also develop a host of other things. Look up how many people developed ME/CFS (Myalgic encephalomyelitis/chronic fatigue syndrome) post SARS and how many are experiencing the same symptoms after "recovering" from COVID-19. Some are months into their recoveries with no signs of going back to their old normal. I wish it was talked about more instead of people dismissing the fact that if a large percentage of those who get severe symptoms develop chronic illnesses, this is going to be a lot bigger than "just a flu". It far from just a flu. My significant other happens to be a SARS survivor who's been dealing with chronic illness since "recovering" from the infection in 2003. I wouldn't wish that on anyone. I hope diabetes isn't yet another condition that many will develop after this.
- eezurr 6y agoTo save you other's time: ME = Myalgic Encephalomyelitis CFE = Chronic Fatigue Syndrome
- 1996 6y agoCFS is nothing new when you're young and get serious viral infections. When I got the right to vote, I also got EBV. I was stuck in bed for weeks with what the docs initially suspected to be leukemia. It tooks me months to get back to some kind of normal. Even now I don't think I'm fully back to normal. I get tired much more easily.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- Sevrene 6y agoI had a similar experience with EBV. Although I also think it caused a sleeping disorder as well (Delayed Sleep Phase). Any doctor I've mentioned this to has shrugged it off, I guess there's not much you can do even if they could establish that it was actually the cause.
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- neuronic 6y agoIn general we have to look much closer at viruses causing chronic illnesses or autoimmune disorders. Epstein-Barr Virus (EBV) is another one where lots of ailments seem to follow - I speak from personal experience combined with many reports both online and acquiantances. Ever since having mono/kissing disease/EBV my body hasn't been remotely the same.
- 1996 6y agoMe too! It was very serious. Years later I'm still tired. Do you have any links or suggestions? I'm down for anything that may help.
- ryanar 6y agoI have had the same experience. I accidentally drank another person's water bottle at the gym after a set, a few weeks later I had Mono. I have never had the same energy level that I used to have. I used to love working out and had so much energy, that is all gone.
- plutonorm 6y agoI got EBV at university nearly 20 years ago. It laid me on my back for 3 weeks and I was ill for a month or two. I was delirious for so long that I think I actually flipped over into psychotic at one point! I'm bipolar type 2 and have always struggled with intermittent energy levels. Although it took until I was 38 to get a diagnosis and be put on meds that actually work. If only I had had the courage and self belief at 18yo to tell the doctor that the SSRIs made me high for the first 2 weeks and then made me worse. Sigh. Anyway back to EBV. I think it took me years to get back to 'normal'. And to some small extent I think I have less energy than I used to. But it's nothing life limiting and it's mild enough to be psychogenic.
- machinehermit 6y agoI am overweight, love candy, chocolate, ice cream, both sides of my family have a history of diabetes. How could you possibly tease out that covid triggered diabetes in me when I am doing such a good job myself?
- Smaug123 6y agoFortunately you are not the only person under consideration, or it would indeed be extraordinarily difficult.
- pengaru 6y agoI was wondering the same thing having read on multiple occasions that the majority of Americans are prediabetic they just don't know it yet.
- tejtm 6y agojoin the cohort and become one with the statistic
- rsynnott 6y agoThe article suggests it might trigger type 1. You're mostly risking type 2.
- UnpossibleJim 6y agoThere seems to be a growing movement to have two different public facing names as, more and more, people are having trouble parsing out the difference in the written and spoken media, which often just uses the singular term, "diabetes".
- jvm_ 6y agohttps://www.reddit.com/r/COVID19positive/ https://www.reddit.com/r/COVID19positive/ Is full of people with long duration recovery periods. Caveats are that only people with long duration symptoms would find that place and post there. Also, it could just be something else that the person is blaming on their Covid diagnosis. Given the volume of posts on long term recoveries, it seems likely that there's more impact than a normal get-sick-for-3-days flu.
- puranjay 6y agoI really wonder what the long term economic impact of a chronically fatigued population will be. It's clear by now that a) the virus isn't going away, and b) a lot of, if not most, people will get it. If a substantial portion of the infected also develop a host of long term health issues, what's going to be the economic cost? We seem to have been focusing on deaths as a key metric which has made a lot of younger people complacent. Apart from anecdotal accounts, I have seen very little reporting on the long term health effects among survivors
- SpicyLemonZest 6y agoThere's just no way to really measure long term health effects at this point, because the vast majority of infectees aren't past the normal timeline for full recovery from a serious disease. (Fatigue reports in particular probably shouldn't be concerning, since post-pneumonia fatigue is known to continue for 3-6 months.)
- Loughla 6y agoThat's what has been so confusing for me to sort out. COVID seems, according to what I can see, to have an extra-long recovery period for many people. I had walking pneumonia and bronchitis two years ago, and even with treatment it took a good 5 months to get out from under that in anything near 90% capacity. Is COVID that? Or is it worse? This gives me more anxiety than the deaths, to be honest.
- 6y ago
- nradov 6y agoIt's possible that SARS-CoV-2 isn't unique in that regard. We don't know whether other viruses might also cause the same damage because we haven't really looked. We know some of the risk factors for diabetes such as obesity, but patients with similar known risk factors have different outcomes. Maybe other viral infections are a missing factor?
- 0x8BADF00D 6y agoThe strange thing about SARS-CoV-2 is that viral load varies in human tissue. You could have small concentrations of SARS-CoV-2 in cardiomyocytes, for instance.
- nradov 6y agoHow is that strange? Many different viruses can cause some level of myocarditis while also infecting other tissues to varying extents.
- 0x8BADF00D 6y agoI've never read of any type of coronavirus causing myocarditis and heart failure in patients. Also have never read of coronavirus being present in other locations of the body, other than nasal/sinus area and lungs.
- perilunar 6y agoNot just possible, but likely: > Various viruses, including the one that causes severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS), have been linked with autoimmune conditions such as type 1 diabetes. Btw, obesity is NOT a risk factor for type 1 diabetes.
- veridies 6y agoSerious question: is it possible that part of the increased mortality for (type 2) diabetics is a result of high blood sugars caused by this kind of effect?
- subsubzero 6y agoT1 diabetes is a strange disease, my brother has it and he was not remotely over-weight although in college and after, his diet was terrible(he also was extremely vitamin D deficient from avoiding the sun). He developed it in his late 20's. Another friend has it and he got it as a kid, he said it came on after a very bad bout of pneumonia he had beforehand, and his Dr's think that is what may have triggered it but who can say. Perhaps either a extremely hard illness or a vitamin deficiency can bring it on, covid-19 seems to fit the bill with accounts of people with low vitamin D levels getting more severe cases, and the fact that it attacks the entire body looking for weaknesses.
- Trasmatta 6y ago> he was not remotely over-weight That's not surprising at all, since there's no correlation between weight and T1D.
- erichocean 6y agoThe correlation is actually negative: if you don't produce insulin, you'll find it extremely hard to put on weight. Children with Type 1 diabetes, before receiving insulin, look like they are starving to death.
- drocer88 6y agoFrom https://academic.oup.com/edrv/article/39/5/629/5060447 https://academic.oup.com/edrv/article/39/5/629/5060447 "Obesity, once rare in type 1 diabetes (T1D), is now an increasingly frequent problem (3–5). Accumulating evidence on the prevalence and consequences of obesity in T1D shows very clearly that this comorbidity is both underappreciated and poorly understood." .... " The considerable obesity burden in youth with T1D was confirmed, also in the T1DX, where the prevalence of obesity (BMI ≥95th percentile) was 13.5% in adolescents (mean age 15.4 years), with higher prevalences in those of black/African American descent (17.9%) and Hispanic/Latino descent (15.9%) between the years of 2010 and 2012."
- makecheck 6y agoWhile the general response to COVID-19 is already infuriating for so many reasons, it’s especially frustrating to see people think it’s “OK” to get it since they’ll probably “recover”. It needs to be drilled into people of all ages that “recovery” is terrible terminology. Congratulations, maybe you didn’t die but you still may very well develop lifelong conditions that really screw up your body and your lifestyle (and, if that’s not enough, consider the healthcare costs). Furthermore, if a person’s only complaint about pandemic rules is their “inconvenience”, it’s time to grow up. No one owes you convenience, and this is definitely the point in your life to figure out how to do what’s better for society. Put on a mask. Follow the rules. And learn more about this, from actual health professionals, not politicians with mile-long track records of lying.
- closeparen 6y agoIf you live alone, "follow the rules" means "do not come within six feet of another human being any time in the next several years." That is a heavier psychological burden than most people will ever carry in their lives. It doesn't serve anyone to trivialize it.
- switch007 6y agoWell put! These preachy “just follow the rules” kind of comments garner lots of upvotes but completely underplay what it means to be human.
- jb775 6y agoI think it's more likely that people already on the verge of "triggering" diabetes are simply more likely to catch coronavirus due to their general poor health and therefore weakened immune systems. Or at least they're more likely to be symptomatic.
- m0zg 6y agoMounting clues suggest the entire field of medicine has no clue whatsoever. You can't trust anything without waiting for 2-3 months to see if there's a retraction, and maybe not even then. I will start paying attention when they figure out, once and for all, whether eggs and butter are good or bad for me.
- mrtri 6y agosuggest? why not prove coronavirus is dangerous for people with a functional immune system?
- mrtri 6y agosuggest? why not prove coronavirus is dangerous for people with a functional immune system? lock 1 person with corona with a few healthy people, wait 2 weeks and see what happens. Medical study: 455 persons exposed to a person with Covid19, non of the 455 persons became sick by the virus. Conclusion: very low infectivity https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32405162/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32405162/ https://www.resmedjournal.com/article/S0954-6111(20)30166-9/pdf https://www.resmedjournal.com/article/S0954-6111(20)30166-9/...