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What's with the hate against wires? Wires always work. My wireless printer never worked. Well it prints once, then I have to power cycle it to print again. Than

What's with the hate against wires? Wires always work. My wireless printer never worked. Well it prints once, then I have to power cycle it to print again. Thanks Samsung. The minimalism point doesn't really cut it: you still need a wire to charge batteries inside things, so it's one more item. And batteries go bad in a matter of years, so you need to buy a soldering iron and a LiPo cell from shady sources unless you're into replacing >$100 devices every three years or so. Or buy external AAA batteries and a wall charger like 90s toy cars. I don't mind the aesthetics of wires. I love the mess behind my desk and the thought that electrons are being pushed at 40 Gb/s to form an image. Mix and match different colors and braid types for a free steampunk look.

dijit 6y ago
Personally, I'm also a big fan of wires. My partner however, she fucking hates them. I can try to run-down her thought process for you: 1) Wires look untidy This doesn't have to be true necessarily, but making wires neat is an art form, having a wire that goes behind the sofa from the TV for example is something that will never easily be hidden. 2) Wires are hard to clean/collect dust Wires that don't have that fancy plastic routing plates seem to accumulate dust, and are hard to clean around generally. Loose wires that spiral are the worst but even single cables running across the edges of the room seem to be harder to clean. 3) Wires dont "add any benefit". For her, if it works it works, and when it doesn't (and I explain that it's because the signal is poor or there is interference) then her reaction is: "You're smart, you work with computers, make it work."- so I do ugly things like run powerline over ethernet which has it's own cons. -- There is a generalised ignorance about how wireless communication systems work in the non-tech populace, nobody thinks about a 'shared segment of space', they think in terms of themselves, their router, and principally "their connection at the time" to the wifi router.
- paultopia 6y ago
  I fucking hate wires too, so I'd add the following to your partner's complaints: 4) Wires make the physical environment much more shaky. I have a cat. Like all cats, he occasionally gets rambunctious. When he goes zooming around the desk, the more things that are connected with wires, the more likely that something gets yanked by something else into a catastrophic (as it were) orgy of destruction. Of course, one could just unplug everything that isn't in use, in which case one runs into: 5) Wires create complicated organizational challenges in practical use For example, many of us have more devices than one has things to plug them into (whether that is outlets to plug into the wall or USB ports on the computer or whatever); changing devices means rooting through a pile of cords to figure out which one happens to go into which thing that needs plugging in. Wires also impose location limitations on the things they're attached to, as extra-extra long wires sometimes degrade data quality too, or are spec-violative because of some kind of safety consideration[1], or impose other ancillary safety considerations such as the risk of tripping, of putting furniture on some power wire and fraying it like crazy, further cat dangers, etc. etc. Maybe in an industrial environment, where the entire physical plant can be adapted to the needs of the equipment, it makes sense to wire everything. But in a home, where people have needs independent of servicing their devices and don't have the money to, for example, hire someone to cut holes into the wall to run all the cables through there, wires can seriously degrade a bunch of realistic practical considerations. Source: myself, a person who has recently moved to a building that provides free cable, and hence has cable TV for the first time in his life; has now discovered that in order to make a basic cable tv + internet setup work, one needs 3 wires into the TV, 4 wires into the modem and a splitter on the cable jack, 3 wires into the cable box which apparently is also a TV, and, since modern TVs have shit speakers so a sound bar with 2 or 3, I forget which and can't tell in the wire forest, wires into that. The cable wire is run entirely across the living room, since apparently the only place to connect to the cable company is on the opposite side of the living room from where any rational person would put a TV, all resulting in this horror; [2] all of which is powered buy a single duplex outlet with multiple surge protectors in it, which, at least if you believe the Yale fire marshal, is a no-no[3], but other random places on the internet disagree and, any way, what choice do we have in the Land of Endless Wires? [1] For example, USB-C PD apparently has a limitation of 6 feet in the spec? https://superuser.com/questions/961176/usb-type-c-power-delivery-profile-max-length https://superuser.com/questions/961176/usb-type-c-power-deli... [2] https://imgur.com/0UWlCYW https://imgur.com/0UWlCYW [3] https://www.ucop.edu/risk-services/_files/bsas/safetymeetings/powerstripsafety.pdf https://www.ucop.edu/risk-services/_files/bsas/safetymeeting...
  - Nursie 6y ago
    Wires can also be neatly snipped by cats that take a fancy to doing so. Ironically the first thing he did this to was a wifi antenna!
    - paultopia 6y ago
      OMG. Don't give my Leonidas ideas.
everdrive 6y ago
>he minimalism point doesn't really cut it You're completely correct, but I'd go even further: if you actually understood how wired and wireless work, you'd realize that the wired solution was truly much more minimal: less complexity, less cost, more reliability. Wired is only more minimalist if you're looking at the wires and not thinking about the technology.
Tade0 6y ago
My only argument against wires is the inevitable wear and tear. I don't know if this is just me or my poor choices regarding equipment, but I regularly have to replace USB, RJ-45 and 1/4 jack(guitar) cables because they simply die on me. Same goes for sockets - recently I bought a certain laptop because, among other things, it can be charged also via USB-C (albeit slowly), giving me a fallback socket should the primary fail - had this happen to my previous device.
- ThatPlayer 6y ago
  Similarly, I prefer wireless charging on my phone and other portable devices. No worry about wear and tear. For about a year I used a tablet with a broken microUSB port that I used a wireless charger for.
  - neop1x 6y ago
    Efficiency of wireless charging is just 62% https://youtu.be/zLrSM4ruNw4 https://youtu.be/zLrSM4ruNw4
    - Dylan16807 6y ago
      Replace one lightbulb with a more efficient one and you'll compensate for that. If you still feel guilty about the extra 25 cents of electricity you'll waste per year, go buy a $5 carbon offset and donate $5 to an environmental charity.
    - imtringued 6y ago
      How much energy is needed to manufacture a micro USB charging cable? I've had to throw more than half a dozen into the trash because they broke or got too loose.
- ashtonkem 6y ago
  What are you doing to your wires? Aside from Apple brand cables, which lack strain relief, I don’t think I’ve ever killed a single USB or Ethernet cable. If it weren’t for the transition from USB 2 to 3, I’d probably keep the same cables for my entire life at this rate.
cbsmith 6y ago
Wires don't always work. If you think wires always work, you've never dealt with the vagaries of SCSI or FibreChannel or even 10gigabit ethernet. Hell Benson Leung became net famous for reviewing all the problems with USB cables (https://kirkville.com/google-employee-reviews-usb-c-cables-on-amazon-to-warn-about-faulty-cables/ https://kirkville.com/google-employee-reviews-usb-c-cables-o...) let alone the insanity between USB devices (and this was before the whole USB 3, USB 3.1, USB 3.1 Gen 1, USB 3.1 Gen 2, and USB 3.2 fiasco).
neop1x 6y ago
Of course it's nonsense. Lots of lagging, jittering and interference. People should use cable whenever possible. But Apple marketed wireless as being 'revolution' and suggested cable-less workspace and people liked it.
ashtonkem 6y ago
I decided a long time ago that when I buy a house, I’m running Ethernet cables in the walls. WiFi is fine if you’re gonna meander around, but I’ve had enough nonsense with the signal cutting out while I’m sitting still. I’ve also had enough with my speeds degrading 90% from one end of my tiny apartment to another. Give me my copper cables back please.
InfiniteRand 6y ago
I like wires but I am prone to tripping, even so I could probably get used to wires but I have very small kids who constantly pull out, chew on, run across, etc any wires they find exposed
mcv 6y ago
> "My wireless printer never worked. Well it prints once, then I have to power cycle it to print again. Thanks Samsung." My wireless Samsung printer user to work very well, but lately, various devices keep claiming it'a not connected. Turning it on manually doesn't fix it. Since I'm near the printer anyway, it's usually easiest to just hook up by USB. (This is hardly the only problem with it; sometimes it's just in a "paper jam" mood and I need to "fix" a non-existent paper jam after every single printed page. The fact that support is now by HP doesn't exactly endear me to the machine either.)

dijit 6y ago

Personally, I'm also a big fan of wires. My partner however, she fucking hates them. I can try to run-down her thought process for you: 1) Wires look untidy This doesn't have to be true necessarily, but making wires neat is an art form, having a wire that goes behind the sofa from the TV for example is something that will never easily be hidden. 2) Wires are hard to clean/collect dust Wires that don't have that fancy plastic routing plates seem to accumulate dust, and are hard to clean around generally. Loose wires that spiral are the worst but even single cables running across the edges of the room seem to be harder to clean. 3) Wires dont "add any benefit". For her, if it works it works, and when it doesn't (and I explain that it's because the signal is poor or there is interference) then her reaction is: "You're smart, you work with computers, make it work."- so I do ugly things like run powerline over ethernet which has it's own cons. -- There is a generalised ignorance about how wireless communication systems work in the non-tech populace, nobody thinks about a 'shared segment of space', they think in terms of themselves, their router, and principally "their connection at the time" to the wifi router.

paultopia 6y ago
I fucking hate wires too, so I'd add the following to your partner's complaints: 4) Wires make the physical environment much more shaky. I have a cat. Like all cats, he occasionally gets rambunctious. When he goes zooming around the desk, the more things that are connected with wires, the more likely that something gets yanked by something else into a catastrophic (as it were) orgy of destruction. Of course, one could just unplug everything that isn't in use, in which case one runs into: 5) Wires create complicated organizational challenges in practical use For example, many of us have more devices than one has things to plug them into (whether that is outlets to plug into the wall or USB ports on the computer or whatever); changing devices means rooting through a pile of cords to figure out which one happens to go into which thing that needs plugging in. Wires also impose location limitations on the things they're attached to, as extra-extra long wires sometimes degrade data quality too, or are spec-violative because of some kind of safety consideration[1], or impose other ancillary safety considerations such as the risk of tripping, of putting furniture on some power wire and fraying it like crazy, further cat dangers, etc. etc. Maybe in an industrial environment, where the entire physical plant can be adapted to the needs of the equipment, it makes sense to wire everything. But in a home, where people have needs independent of servicing their devices and don't have the money to, for example, hire someone to cut holes into the wall to run all the cables through there, wires can seriously degrade a bunch of realistic practical considerations. Source: myself, a person who has recently moved to a building that provides free cable, and hence has cable TV for the first time in his life; has now discovered that in order to make a basic cable tv + internet setup work, one needs 3 wires into the TV, 4 wires into the modem and a splitter on the cable jack, 3 wires into the cable box which apparently is also a TV, and, since modern TVs have shit speakers so a sound bar with 2 or 3, I forget which and can't tell in the wire forest, wires into that. The cable wire is run entirely across the living room, since apparently the only place to connect to the cable company is on the opposite side of the living room from where any rational person would put a TV, all resulting in this horror; [2] all of which is powered buy a single duplex outlet with multiple surge protectors in it, which, at least if you believe the Yale fire marshal, is a no-no[3], but other random places on the internet disagree and, any way, what choice do we have in the Land of Endless Wires? [1] For example, USB-C PD apparently has a limitation of 6 feet in the spec? https://superuser.com/questions/961176/usb-type-c-power-delivery-profile-max-length https://superuser.com/questions/961176/usb-type-c-power-deli... [2] https://imgur.com/0UWlCYW https://imgur.com/0UWlCYW [3] https://www.ucop.edu/risk-services/_files/bsas/safetymeetings/powerstripsafety.pdf https://www.ucop.edu/risk-services/_files/bsas/safetymeeting...
- Nursie 6y ago
  Wires can also be neatly snipped by cats that take a fancy to doing so. Ironically the first thing he did this to was a wifi antenna!
  - paultopia 6y ago
    OMG. Don't give my Leonidas ideas.

everdrive 6y ago

>he minimalism point doesn't really cut it You're completely correct, but I'd go even further: if you actually understood how wired and wireless work, you'd realize that the wired solution was truly much more minimal: less complexity, less cost, more reliability. Wired is only more minimalist if you're looking at the wires and not thinking about the technology.

Tade0 6y ago

My only argument against wires is the inevitable wear and tear. I don't know if this is just me or my poor choices regarding equipment, but I regularly have to replace USB, RJ-45 and 1/4 jack(guitar) cables because they simply die on me. Same goes for sockets - recently I bought a certain laptop because, among other things, it can be charged also via USB-C (albeit slowly), giving me a fallback socket should the primary fail - had this happen to my previous device.

ThatPlayer 6y ago
Similarly, I prefer wireless charging on my phone and other portable devices. No worry about wear and tear. For about a year I used a tablet with a broken microUSB port that I used a wireless charger for.
- neop1x 6y ago
  Efficiency of wireless charging is just 62% https://youtu.be/zLrSM4ruNw4 https://youtu.be/zLrSM4ruNw4
  - Dylan16807 6y ago
    Replace one lightbulb with a more efficient one and you'll compensate for that. If you still feel guilty about the extra 25 cents of electricity you'll waste per year, go buy a $5 carbon offset and donate $5 to an environmental charity.
  - imtringued 6y ago
    How much energy is needed to manufacture a micro USB charging cable? I've had to throw more than half a dozen into the trash because they broke or got too loose.
ashtonkem 6y ago
What are you doing to your wires? Aside from Apple brand cables, which lack strain relief, I don’t think I’ve ever killed a single USB or Ethernet cable. If it weren’t for the transition from USB 2 to 3, I’d probably keep the same cables for my entire life at this rate.

cbsmith 6y ago

Wires don't always work. If you think wires always work, you've never dealt with the vagaries of SCSI or FibreChannel or even 10gigabit ethernet. Hell Benson Leung became net famous for reviewing all the problems with USB cables (https://kirkville.com/google-employee-reviews-usb-c-cables-on-amazon-to-warn-about-faulty-cables/ https://kirkville.com/google-employee-reviews-usb-c-cables-o...) let alone the insanity between USB devices (and this was before the whole USB 3, USB 3.1, USB 3.1 Gen 1, USB 3.1 Gen 2, and USB 3.2 fiasco).

neop1x 6y ago

Of course it's nonsense. Lots of lagging, jittering and interference. People should use cable whenever possible. But Apple marketed wireless as being 'revolution' and suggested cable-less workspace and people liked it.

ashtonkem 6y ago

I decided a long time ago that when I buy a house, I’m running Ethernet cables in the walls. WiFi is fine if you’re gonna meander around, but I’ve had enough nonsense with the signal cutting out while I’m sitting still. I’ve also had enough with my speeds degrading 90% from one end of my tiny apartment to another. Give me my copper cables back please.

InfiniteRand 6y ago

I like wires but I am prone to tripping, even so I could probably get used to wires but I have very small kids who constantly pull out, chew on, run across, etc any wires they find exposed

mcv 6y ago

> "My wireless printer never worked. Well it prints once, then I have to power cycle it to print again. Thanks Samsung." My wireless Samsung printer user to work very well, but lately, various devices keep claiming it'a not connected. Turning it on manually doesn't fix it. Since I'm near the printer anyway, it's usually easiest to just hook up by USB. (This is hardly the only problem with it; sometimes it's just in a "paper jam" mood and I need to "fix" a non-existent paper jam after every single printed page. The fact that support is now by HP doesn't exactly endear me to the machine either.)