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Anyone looking for context. https://infoproc.blogspot.com/2020/06/twitter-attacks-and-defense-of.html?m=1 https://infoproc.blogspot.com/2020/06/twitter-attacks

Anyone looking for context. https://infoproc.blogspot.com/2020/06/twitter-attacks-and-defense-of.html?m=1 https://infoproc.blogspot.com/2020/06/twitter-attacks-and-de... Does anyone have more information for the opposing side? Seems pretty terrible that people can take things you said over the years out of context and destroy your reputation.

exolymph 6y ago
There are some links to the attacks here: https://slatestarcodex.com/2020/06/16/open-thread-156-25/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2020/06/16/open-thread-156-25/
- bJGVygG7MQVF8c 6y ago
  Alexander is probably next up for cancellation. The scuttlebutt is that [the empty shell of] the NY Times has a hit piece on him in the works.
  - Apocryphon 6y ago
    I recall when LessWrong and Yudkowsky was covered by NYT. They came off as looking like a bunch of hyper-rationalist kooks, a bit New Age and cult-like even, but otherwise harmless. The same will likely happen to Alexander. https://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/17/magazine/the-happiness-code.html https://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/17/magazine/the-happiness-co...
    - bJGVygG7MQVF8c 6y ago
      For his sake, I hope you're right. But there have been one or two notable personnel changes at the NYT since that piece on the rationalists, and we're in the midst of a moral panic / cancellation frenzy.
      - Apocryphon 6y ago
        I mean, the NYT tackled the tradcath subculture recently and it was sympathetic, even laudatory. [0] I think the NYT treats these subcultures as more curios than targets for cancellation. Not to mention, post-2016 election, they’ve even caught flack for being too sympathetic towards reactionary individuals or groups, even those who are outright hateful. [1] [0] https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/08/opinion/sunday/weird-christians.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/08/opinion/sunday/weird-chri... [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/27/opinion/nazi-sympathizer.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/27/opinion/nazi-sympathizer....
  - ylem 6y ago
    Alexander?
    - doubleunplussed 6y ago
      Scott Alexander, the author of the blog SlateStarCodex
hurrdurr2 6y ago
On social media mob rule prevails... especially Twitter.
bJGVygG7MQVF8c 6y ago
the other side: https://twitter.com/gradempunion/status/1270829003130261504 https://twitter.com/gradempunion/status/1270829003130261504 laughable stuff. not just sad but seriously and broadly concerning that this kind of uninformed knee-jerk response gets taken seriously
the_rara_avis 6y ago
John Jackson has a (currently) 6 part series: https://altrightorigins.com/2020/06/19/hsu-irresponsible/ https://altrightorigins.com/2020/06/19/hsu-irresponsible/
- DSingularity 6y ago
  Thanks. This seems exhaustive and very well researched.
  - bJGVygG7MQVF8c 6y ago
    It's outlandishly tendentious. This is a moral panic. People are uninformed, and the media is being used keep people perpetually afraid of an imaginary fascist threat. Here's The Economist in 2005 on Ashkenazi intelligence, for example: https://www.economist.com/science-and-technology/2005/06/02/natural-genius https://www.economist.com/science-and-technology/2005/06/02/... Also worth nothing that Unz is himself of Jewish ancestry.
- Daishiman 6y ago
  This should be a top-level comment. If the author's claims are true, I can hardly MSU for the decision. A geneticist hosting and associating with a white supremacist and being a holocaust denier are not exactly the sort of academic liberty we should be standing up for.
  - blisterpeanuts 6y ago
    Not sure about Unz, but Molyneux is hardly a "white supremacist".
    - ylem 6y ago
      I asked this earlier, but are these out of context questions? I am not familiar with the guy: https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/individual/stefan-molyneux https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/indi...
daeken 6y ago
I mean, have you looked at the resources linked on the Twitter thread he links to in that post? To call it "damning" is an understatement. It would be different if he came out now and said "here are the things I said then, here's why I said them, and here are the reasons those were problematic and wrong; I no longer align myself with those views." But instead, he dug in his heels saying that this comes down to suppressing scientific inquiry for ... not buying into eugenics.
- natalyarostova 6y ago
  He’s doing research using newer high dimensional ML methods on the human genome to understand potential correlations with genetic information and other attributes, like general intelligence https://arxiv.org/abs/1310.2264 https://arxiv.org/abs/1310.2264 It’s a valid research subject, and like all research subjects, it could be wrong. If people think some questions are too dangerous to ask, just admit that and be honest. Instead of just calling it problematic because it’s a potentially uncomfortable subject.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - kick 6y ago
    Personally I don't think any of this is particularly related to "dangerous questions," but you do you I guess. In which he downplays racial bias in police shootings: https://infoproc.blogspot.com/2020/06/re-post-joe-cesario-on-police-decision.html https://infoproc.blogspot.com/2020/06/re-post-joe-cesario-on... In which he says lack of segregation is the reason for racial underperformance: https://infoproc.blogspot.com/2020/03/claude-steele-on-challenges-of-multi.html https://infoproc.blogspot.com/2020/03/claude-steele-on-chall... Interview with an open white supremacist, check: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stefan_Molyneux https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stefan_Molyneux
    - natalyarostova 6y ago
      Part of the scientific process is being skeptical and considering cases and asking probing questions. He didn’t make a blog post that said “lol racial bias is fake.” He discusses it with respect to research on the matter. It seems you don’t feel that’s an acceptable question to ask: is racial bias in police shooting real? I’d call that a dangerous question to ask, and try to answer honestly, because it could get a person fired.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

exolymph 6y ago

There are some links to the attacks here: https://slatestarcodex.com/2020/06/16/open-thread-156-25/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2020/06/16/open-thread-156-25/

bJGVygG7MQVF8c 6y ago
Alexander is probably next up for cancellation. The scuttlebutt is that [the empty shell of] the NY Times has a hit piece on him in the works.
- Apocryphon 6y ago
  I recall when LessWrong and Yudkowsky was covered by NYT. They came off as looking like a bunch of hyper-rationalist kooks, a bit New Age and cult-like even, but otherwise harmless. The same will likely happen to Alexander. https://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/17/magazine/the-happiness-code.html https://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/17/magazine/the-happiness-co...
  - bJGVygG7MQVF8c 6y ago
    For his sake, I hope you're right. But there have been one or two notable personnel changes at the NYT since that piece on the rationalists, and we're in the midst of a moral panic / cancellation frenzy.
    - Apocryphon 6y ago
      I mean, the NYT tackled the tradcath subculture recently and it was sympathetic, even laudatory. [0] I think the NYT treats these subcultures as more curios than targets for cancellation. Not to mention, post-2016 election, they’ve even caught flack for being too sympathetic towards reactionary individuals or groups, even those who are outright hateful. [1] [0] https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/08/opinion/sunday/weird-christians.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/08/opinion/sunday/weird-chri... [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/27/opinion/nazi-sympathizer.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/27/opinion/nazi-sympathizer....
- ylem 6y ago
  Alexander?
  - doubleunplussed 6y ago
    Scott Alexander, the author of the blog SlateStarCodex

hurrdurr2 6y ago

On social media mob rule prevails... especially Twitter.

bJGVygG7MQVF8c 6y ago

the other side: https://twitter.com/gradempunion/status/1270829003130261504 https://twitter.com/gradempunion/status/1270829003130261504 laughable stuff. not just sad but seriously and broadly concerning that this kind of uninformed knee-jerk response gets taken seriously

the_rara_avis 6y ago

John Jackson has a (currently) 6 part series: https://altrightorigins.com/2020/06/19/hsu-irresponsible/ https://altrightorigins.com/2020/06/19/hsu-irresponsible/

DSingularity 6y ago
Thanks. This seems exhaustive and very well researched.
- bJGVygG7MQVF8c 6y ago
  It's outlandishly tendentious. This is a moral panic. People are uninformed, and the media is being used keep people perpetually afraid of an imaginary fascist threat. Here's The Economist in 2005 on Ashkenazi intelligence, for example: https://www.economist.com/science-and-technology/2005/06/02/natural-genius https://www.economist.com/science-and-technology/2005/06/02/... Also worth nothing that Unz is himself of Jewish ancestry.
Daishiman 6y ago
This should be a top-level comment. If the author's claims are true, I can hardly MSU for the decision. A geneticist hosting and associating with a white supremacist and being a holocaust denier are not exactly the sort of academic liberty we should be standing up for.
- blisterpeanuts 6y ago
  Not sure about Unz, but Molyneux is hardly a "white supremacist".
  - ylem 6y ago
    I asked this earlier, but are these out of context questions? I am not familiar with the guy: https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/individual/stefan-molyneux https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/indi...

daeken 6y ago

I mean, have you looked at the resources linked on the Twitter thread he links to in that post? To call it "damning" is an understatement. It would be different if he came out now and said "here are the things I said then, here's why I said them, and here are the reasons those were problematic and wrong; I no longer align myself with those views." But instead, he dug in his heels saying that this comes down to suppressing scientific inquiry for ... not buying into eugenics.

natalyarostova 6y ago
He’s doing research using newer high dimensional ML methods on the human genome to understand potential correlations with genetic information and other attributes, like general intelligence https://arxiv.org/abs/1310.2264 https://arxiv.org/abs/1310.2264 It’s a valid research subject, and like all research subjects, it could be wrong. If people think some questions are too dangerous to ask, just admit that and be honest. Instead of just calling it problematic because it’s a potentially uncomfortable subject.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- kick 6y ago
  Personally I don't think any of this is particularly related to "dangerous questions," but you do you I guess. In which he downplays racial bias in police shootings: https://infoproc.blogspot.com/2020/06/re-post-joe-cesario-on-police-decision.html https://infoproc.blogspot.com/2020/06/re-post-joe-cesario-on... In which he says lack of segregation is the reason for racial underperformance: https://infoproc.blogspot.com/2020/03/claude-steele-on-challenges-of-multi.html https://infoproc.blogspot.com/2020/03/claude-steele-on-chall... Interview with an open white supremacist, check: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stefan_Molyneux https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stefan_Molyneux
  - natalyarostova 6y ago
    Part of the scientific process is being skeptical and considering cases and asking probing questions. He didn’t make a blog post that said “lol racial bias is fake.” He discusses it with respect to research on the matter. It seems you don’t feel that’s an acceptable question to ask: is racial bias in police shooting real? I’d call that a dangerous question to ask, and try to answer honestly, because it could get a person fired.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]