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There's an interesting piece called "Chris McCandless from an Alaska Park Ranger’s Perspective" http://nmge.gmu.edu/textandcommunity/2006/Peter_Christian_Respo

There's an interesting piece called "Chris McCandless from an Alaska Park Ranger’s Perspective" http://nmge.gmu.edu/textandcommunity/2006/Peter_Christian_Response.pdf http://nmge.gmu.edu/textandcommunity/2006/Peter_Christian_Re... "Some like McCandless, show up in Alaska, unprepared, unskilled and unwilling to take the time to learn the skills they need to be successful. These quickly get in trouble and either die by bears, by drowning, by freezing or they are rescued by park rangers or other rescue personnel–but often, not before risking their lives and/or spending a lot of government money on helicopters and overtime. When you consider McCandless from my perspective, you quickly see that what he did wasn’t even particularly daring, just stupid, tragic and inconsiderate. First off, he spent very little time learning how to actually live in the wild. He arrived at the Stampede Trail without even a map of the area. If he had a good map he could have walked out of his predicament using one of several routes that could have been successful."

grecy 6y ago
These kind of hyperbolic statements don't do much to educate, they're over sensationalized. > These quickly get in trouble and either die by bears, by drowning, by freezing or they are rescued by park rangers or other rescue personnel–but often, not before risking their lives and/or spending a lot of government money on helicopters and overtime Since 1992, only two people have died trying to reach the bus, they both drowned in the Tek (which was hard for me to cross, at 6 foot 2 and 185 lbs). One in 2010, and one last year. As for the number of rescues: "The state carried out 15 bus-related search and rescue operations between 2009 and 2017, authorities say" [1] [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53106441 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53106441 For what it's worth, I lived in the Yukon for 4 years. I've been bison hunting at -45C, I've spent months hunting, hiking and fishing all over the Yukon and a ton of time in Alaska too. I know what it takes.
- catalogia 6y ago
  That quote is not referring exclusively to people who try to reach the bus and there's nothing hyperbolic about it. Alaska State Troopers conduct several hundred search and rescue missions each year (https://dps.alaska.gov/AST/SAR/Home https://dps.alaska.gov/AST/SAR/Home), that number probably goes up when you include federal and state park rangers as well.
- greenshackle2 6y ago
  What are you on about? The ranger is not talking about the bus, he's talking about ill-prepared young men visiting Alaska's wilderness in general.
  - matwood 6y ago
    It's people being ill prepared in general. When I lived in Colorado I did a lot of hiking, and was always prepared to spend the night if needed. Now I live on the coast and the most cut off I feel is when I go offshore fishing (particularly in a smallish center console). Even though you have a few friends with you, once you get 30+ miles offshore all you see in any direction is water. Going offshore fishing is more about preparation than almost anything else.
- colpabar 6y ago
  Did you show up at the Yukon without a map? Did you go hunting at -45C without a jacket? Did you try to fish without a rod? No one is saying it's impossible to do what Chris attempted, but lots of people do say that he might not have died if he planned ahead a bit.
  - prawn 6y ago
    He died because he confused two similar plants. Probably having done some research contributed IMO.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- thaumaturgy 6y ago
  You're completely right to point this out, but this particular subject and individual seems to be a fulcrum for the sort of people who say things like, "kids these days...". The most common thing I hear, by far, from members of the public at search and rescue fundraisers is, "why do you go to all that trouble for stupid people?" It's a question almost always delivered with the self-satisfied smugness of someone who has no idea that they're already suffering the atrophying effects of not venturing outside of familiar territory often enough. McCandless surely made mistakes and errors in judgement. He certainly underestimated what he was getting in to. In that, he has something in common with hundreds of thousands of casual hikers, mountain bikers, kayakers, and visitors to national parks every year. There are vanishingly few entries in the annual Accidents of North American Mountaineering where the people involved are unimpeachable in terms of their preparedness or skill. In almost every case, there's something that someone could point to that the victim did wrong, and if not, then there's always the fallback that they were dumb to be doing it to begin with. If he hadn't died, nobody would know his name. Statistics caught up to him. Statistics will catch a few other people every year while far more visitors to the same area will escape without consequence. The dynamics of this subject on HN in particular are really sort of obvious, given that McCandless has come up at least half-a-dozen times on HN over the years, a site not known for its enthusiasm for the outdoors. The treatment here is often about as embarrassing as someone might imagine the topic of machine learning to be on a forum for mushroom pickers.
  - grecy 6y ago
    No doubt it's a polarizing topic, and I understand why people (especially Alaskans) get angry about him going into the wilderness unprepared. The bus was moved for "public safety", which raises a bigger question of safety, and personal choice. Should we stop people climbing mountains, paddling whitewater, skydiving or even just eating bacon all in the name of "public safety"? Who gets to decide that we're much better off sitting at a desk for life and never doing anything "risky"? Some people have decided a long life is better than going after your dreams, even if that long life is unfulfilling and full of regrets. That's fine with me. I'm perfectly happy to let people live whatever life they choose, and it feels strange people won't let me (or get angry about Chris) living the life we want. We all have many choices in this life, and it seems people get angry when others make different choices than themselves.
- jmull 6y ago
  I think it's pretty clear this isn't just about the bus. It's the general issue of people who have the idea to live in or travel through the wilderness (worthy, IMO), but attempt it without a reasonable attempt at preparation. It's worth calling out. These people endanger their own lives -- I think unintentionally in most cases. And they endanger the rescue workers whose job it is to help people in trouble, whatever the reason. Hopefully calling this out will catch the attention of at least some of the right people, and there will be a few less of them and their rescuers injured or worse.
- JJMcJ 6y ago
  The ranger wasn't referring just to the bus but to all the people who do things like this.
- GavinMcG 6y ago
  Even if the ranger were referring only to the bus, does two search and rescue operations per year not prove the point?
- ska 6y ago
  This is off base - the article is about McCandless and people like him, not specifically people who have later gone to find his bus. It's opinionated, but not far out there. He (McCandless) died due to a combination of poor preparation and compounded mistakes; it was almost certainly avoidable. There is an interesting question of how much responsibility individuals should take for this sort of thing.
- Svperstar 6y ago
  >Since 1992, only two people have died trying to reach the bus He wasn't just speaking of the bus, he meant the whole state of Alaska
sinker 6y ago
Am I in the minority in thinking that if someone wants to go out into the wilderness with little or no preparation for months at a time, that it's no one else's business? McCandless didn't ask for a book to be written about him. Why should anyone care one way or another that an individual they didn't know decided to do something for his own sake with little effect on anyone else. If I, or anyone, decide tomorrow they'd like to take a very long walk in the woods and not return for six months, why does society at large need to weigh in on that? It's not a question of moral or ethics. People are consistently smug, morally prescriptive, and hindsight-ridden whenever the topic of McCandless comes up.
- saulrh 6y ago
  From the root post: > but often, not before risking their > lives and/or spending a lot of > government money on helicopters > and overtime. Every search and rescue operation the forest service mounts is a bunch less actual work they can get done protecting and preserving nature for the rest of us.
  - sinker 6y ago
    This response comes up every time, but it seems backwards to me and comes off more as rationalization for smugness than a legitimate point, something along the lines of, "Will someone think of the children?" Yes, it would be better if SAR services were never needed, but they serve the public, it's not the public that serves SAR when they decide to step outside. It'd be one thing if McCandless were willingly and flagrantly putting his life in danger with the expectation that he could dial a number and be rescued at any time - but that didn't happen did it? He played it out to the end starving to death.
    - bananabreakfast 6y ago
      He never intended to die out there. His journal makes that abundantly clear. He starved because he ate poison berries. He absolutely would have dialed a number to come rescue him if the technology was available, which it wasn't because it was 1992 in central Alaska. He also did require expensive rescue anyway. You think they just left his body in that bus after it was discovered? Absolutely not, plus there are no roads there anymore, so they had to fly his body out in a very expensive helicopter ride.
m463 6y ago
I remember a friend of mine moved to Montana for a time long ago. He told me they gave him a brochure (maybe at the dmv?), describing how montana was different - distances were vast, services were sparse and basically that you needed to take it seriously. I would imagine that goes 10x for alaska. Oh yeah, and I've listened to enough episodes of Joe Rogan to realize bears... well, they are never accurately portrayed in the media.
- jeffdavis 6y ago
  What do you mean about the bears?
  - m463 6y ago
    they are not cuddly and friendly.
- hnu0847 6y ago
  Which specific JRE episodes are you referring to?
  - m463 6y ago
    He's mentioned bears on several podcasts. One specific episode I can place is this one: Joe Rogan Experience #1105 - Michael Hunter Although I do recall another one where he got pretty graphic, saying that bears will... I won't mention it here.
    - bodono 6y ago
      Go on

grecy 6y ago

These kind of hyperbolic statements don't do much to educate, they're over sensationalized. > These quickly get in trouble and either die by bears, by drowning, by freezing or they are rescued by park rangers or other rescue personnel–but often, not before risking their lives and/or spending a lot of government money on helicopters and overtime Since 1992, only two people have died trying to reach the bus, they both drowned in the Tek (which was hard for me to cross, at 6 foot 2 and 185 lbs). One in 2010, and one last year. As for the number of rescues: "The state carried out 15 bus-related search and rescue operations between 2009 and 2017, authorities say" [1] [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53106441 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53106441 For what it's worth, I lived in the Yukon for 4 years. I've been bison hunting at -45C, I've spent months hunting, hiking and fishing all over the Yukon and a ton of time in Alaska too. I know what it takes.

catalogia 6y ago
That quote is not referring exclusively to people who try to reach the bus and there's nothing hyperbolic about it. Alaska State Troopers conduct several hundred search and rescue missions each year (https://dps.alaska.gov/AST/SAR/Home https://dps.alaska.gov/AST/SAR/Home), that number probably goes up when you include federal and state park rangers as well.
greenshackle2 6y ago
What are you on about? The ranger is not talking about the bus, he's talking about ill-prepared young men visiting Alaska's wilderness in general.
- matwood 6y ago
  It's people being ill prepared in general. When I lived in Colorado I did a lot of hiking, and was always prepared to spend the night if needed. Now I live on the coast and the most cut off I feel is when I go offshore fishing (particularly in a smallish center console). Even though you have a few friends with you, once you get 30+ miles offshore all you see in any direction is water. Going offshore fishing is more about preparation than almost anything else.
colpabar 6y ago
Did you show up at the Yukon without a map? Did you go hunting at -45C without a jacket? Did you try to fish without a rod? No one is saying it's impossible to do what Chris attempted, but lots of people do say that he might not have died if he planned ahead a bit.
- prawn 6y ago
  He died because he confused two similar plants. Probably having done some research contributed IMO.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
thaumaturgy 6y ago
You're completely right to point this out, but this particular subject and individual seems to be a fulcrum for the sort of people who say things like, "kids these days...". The most common thing I hear, by far, from members of the public at search and rescue fundraisers is, "why do you go to all that trouble for stupid people?" It's a question almost always delivered with the self-satisfied smugness of someone who has no idea that they're already suffering the atrophying effects of not venturing outside of familiar territory often enough. McCandless surely made mistakes and errors in judgement. He certainly underestimated what he was getting in to. In that, he has something in common with hundreds of thousands of casual hikers, mountain bikers, kayakers, and visitors to national parks every year. There are vanishingly few entries in the annual Accidents of North American Mountaineering where the people involved are unimpeachable in terms of their preparedness or skill. In almost every case, there's something that someone could point to that the victim did wrong, and if not, then there's always the fallback that they were dumb to be doing it to begin with. If he hadn't died, nobody would know his name. Statistics caught up to him. Statistics will catch a few other people every year while far more visitors to the same area will escape without consequence. The dynamics of this subject on HN in particular are really sort of obvious, given that McCandless has come up at least half-a-dozen times on HN over the years, a site not known for its enthusiasm for the outdoors. The treatment here is often about as embarrassing as someone might imagine the topic of machine learning to be on a forum for mushroom pickers.
- grecy 6y ago
  No doubt it's a polarizing topic, and I understand why people (especially Alaskans) get angry about him going into the wilderness unprepared. The bus was moved for "public safety", which raises a bigger question of safety, and personal choice. Should we stop people climbing mountains, paddling whitewater, skydiving or even just eating bacon all in the name of "public safety"? Who gets to decide that we're much better off sitting at a desk for life and never doing anything "risky"? Some people have decided a long life is better than going after your dreams, even if that long life is unfulfilling and full of regrets. That's fine with me. I'm perfectly happy to let people live whatever life they choose, and it feels strange people won't let me (or get angry about Chris) living the life we want. We all have many choices in this life, and it seems people get angry when others make different choices than themselves.
jmull 6y ago
I think it's pretty clear this isn't just about the bus. It's the general issue of people who have the idea to live in or travel through the wilderness (worthy, IMO), but attempt it without a reasonable attempt at preparation. It's worth calling out. These people endanger their own lives -- I think unintentionally in most cases. And they endanger the rescue workers whose job it is to help people in trouble, whatever the reason. Hopefully calling this out will catch the attention of at least some of the right people, and there will be a few less of them and their rescuers injured or worse.
JJMcJ 6y ago
The ranger wasn't referring just to the bus but to all the people who do things like this.
GavinMcG 6y ago
Even if the ranger were referring only to the bus, does two search and rescue operations per year not prove the point?
ska 6y ago
This is off base - the article is about McCandless and people like him, not specifically people who have later gone to find his bus. It's opinionated, but not far out there. He (McCandless) died due to a combination of poor preparation and compounded mistakes; it was almost certainly avoidable. There is an interesting question of how much responsibility individuals should take for this sort of thing.
Svperstar 6y ago
>Since 1992, only two people have died trying to reach the bus He wasn't just speaking of the bus, he meant the whole state of Alaska

sinker 6y ago

Am I in the minority in thinking that if someone wants to go out into the wilderness with little or no preparation for months at a time, that it's no one else's business? McCandless didn't ask for a book to be written about him. Why should anyone care one way or another that an individual they didn't know decided to do something for his own sake with little effect on anyone else. If I, or anyone, decide tomorrow they'd like to take a very long walk in the woods and not return for six months, why does society at large need to weigh in on that? It's not a question of moral or ethics. People are consistently smug, morally prescriptive, and hindsight-ridden whenever the topic of McCandless comes up.

saulrh 6y ago
From the root post: > but often, not before risking their > lives and/or spending a lot of > government money on helicopters > and overtime. Every search and rescue operation the forest service mounts is a bunch less actual work they can get done protecting and preserving nature for the rest of us.
- sinker 6y ago
  This response comes up every time, but it seems backwards to me and comes off more as rationalization for smugness than a legitimate point, something along the lines of, "Will someone think of the children?" Yes, it would be better if SAR services were never needed, but they serve the public, it's not the public that serves SAR when they decide to step outside. It'd be one thing if McCandless were willingly and flagrantly putting his life in danger with the expectation that he could dial a number and be rescued at any time - but that didn't happen did it? He played it out to the end starving to death.
  - bananabreakfast 6y ago
    He never intended to die out there. His journal makes that abundantly clear. He starved because he ate poison berries. He absolutely would have dialed a number to come rescue him if the technology was available, which it wasn't because it was 1992 in central Alaska. He also did require expensive rescue anyway. You think they just left his body in that bus after it was discovered? Absolutely not, plus there are no roads there anymore, so they had to fly his body out in a very expensive helicopter ride.

m463 6y ago

I remember a friend of mine moved to Montana for a time long ago. He told me they gave him a brochure (maybe at the dmv?), describing how montana was different - distances were vast, services were sparse and basically that you needed to take it seriously. I would imagine that goes 10x for alaska. Oh yeah, and I've listened to enough episodes of Joe Rogan to realize bears... well, they are never accurately portrayed in the media.

jeffdavis 6y ago
What do you mean about the bears?
- m463 6y ago
  they are not cuddly and friendly.
hnu0847 6y ago
Which specific JRE episodes are you referring to?
- m463 6y ago
  He's mentioned bears on several podcasts. One specific episode I can place is this one: Joe Rogan Experience #1105 - Michael Hunter Although I do recall another one where he got pretty graphic, saying that bears will... I won't mention it here.
  - bodono 6y ago
    Go on