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Absolutely. When it happened, a few Canadian friends of mine were impressed with Trudeau but when we walked through the amount and where it would likely go, we

by cheez 6y ago

Absolutely. When it happened, a few Canadian friends of mine were impressed with Trudeau but when we walked through the amount and where it would likely go, we realized it was purely to hold up the housing market. Without this, the housing market would have collapsed FEROCIOUSLY. So this was a gift (yet again) to Canadian landlords and homeowners at the expense of the younger generation.

julianlam 6y ago
Where do your Canadian friends live? You _do_ realize that CERB payouts are the same nationwide, and if your friends are using the majority of the CERB payment to pay rent, that's a result of living in a high rent area. The younger generation also benefits from CERB and there are other appropriate programs for youths and students.
- cheez 6y ago
  Go look at Canadian real estate. Middle of nowhere with services is 300K. Mortgage on that is something like 1000/month. This was purely to prevent a housing collapse.
cmdshiftf4 6y ago
>So this was a gift (yet again) to Canadian landlords and homeowners at the expense of the younger generation. What about the people who would have been made homeless, perhaps permanently, by the housing market collapsing ferociously as you pointed you?
- rahimnathwani 6y ago
  How do you become homeless by the 'housing market collapsing'? If the price of housing goes down rapidly (which I guess it what's meant by 'collapse'), that makes it more affordable, not less.
  - cmdshiftf4 6y ago
    What do you think happens the tenants when the landlord's properties go into foreclosure? What do you think happens mortgage lending in such a scenario? What percentage of current renters have a 20% downpayment ready for even something as large as a 50% drop in home values? In Toronto, last I checked it as 1.1m for the average house and about 800k for a reasonable condo. How many current renters do you honestly think have $110k/$80 ready for a downpayment? A housing market collapse only benefits those with great sums of capital on the sidelines waiting to deploy.
    - raxxorrax 6y ago
      Granted, there is a problem of someone doing an "Amazon", but these dangers can all be accounted for and cheap homes would vastly benefit the younger generation. Granted, maybe progressive taxes on property are needed, but I don't see problems. So 1.1m for a house is probably a problem. What is the alternative to fixing that?
      - marketgod 6y ago
        You can't fix that in Toronto. You have to build more but the population of Toronto is growing significantly so even if you do it won't fix the issue. If you save $100k the monthly $5500 mortgage won't get paid with the salaries. Two big things that are being discussed by citizen's are restrictions for purchasing by a non citizen and limits on Airbnb renting.
      - cmdshiftf4 6y ago
        >cheap homes would vastly benefit the younger generation The USA, Ireland and others have already been through housing busts in the last 10-15 years and it had no effect on home ownership. >So 1.1m for a house is probably a problem. What is the alternative to fixing that? Keep in mind we're talking about prices in some of the most attractive places to live in, in North America. Places that are also the target of skilled immigration and migrants with money also. As you probably know, it might be $1m for a starter condo in NYC, but you can pick up a detached house in a decent area elsewhere for a quarter of that. The unaffordability of the cities is a function of supply vs demand. If you want to bring down city property prices, simply reduce the need for cities.
- cheez 6y ago
  I rely on people making decisions in their own best interest so they would find an economically sustainable solution. CERB prevents this.
- Scoundreller 6y ago
  Punitive vacant property taxes would solve that. You can’t create more homeless when there’s just as much housing to go around as there was before.
raxxorrax 6y ago
Truly remarkable. I think if people just could afford houses after a collapse like this, the economic benefits would probably be immeasurable.
cylinder 6y ago
everyone always says this as if housing and the economy are two separate things. you cannot have a strong economy while housing has crashed. housing is at the top of the needs hierarchy. when people have money they will put as much as they can into housing. so if the govt gives everyone $10,000, probably 30-50% of that will flow to housing. that doesn't mean that their intention or only goal is to "support the housing market."
- smooth_remmy 6y ago
  You can absolutely have a strong economy when housing has crashed. Housing crashed = cheaper housing = more labor mobility = labor can spend more money on their "higher level needs" like eating at restaurants or elective medical care or online shopping. Would you say "you cannot have a strong economy while the food prices have crashed"? Obviously not, lowered food prices would be seen as a good thing by everyone.
  - blaser-waffle 6y ago
    > Obviously not, lowered food prices would be seen as a good thing by everyone. Until the companies providing the food go out of business. Or get bought out by foreign firms with no incentive to provide good food or service, e.g. Tim Hortons (owned by burger king, which is in turn owned by a Brazilian firm).

by cheez 6y ago

julianlam 6y ago

Where do your Canadian friends live? You _do_ realize that CERB payouts are the same nationwide, and if your friends are using the majority of the CERB payment to pay rent, that's a result of living in a high rent area. The younger generation also benefits from CERB and there are other appropriate programs for youths and students.

cheez 6y ago
Go look at Canadian real estate. Middle of nowhere with services is 300K. Mortgage on that is something like 1000/month. This was purely to prevent a housing collapse.

cmdshiftf4 6y ago

>So this was a gift (yet again) to Canadian landlords and homeowners at the expense of the younger generation. What about the people who would have been made homeless, perhaps permanently, by the housing market collapsing ferociously as you pointed you?

rahimnathwani 6y ago
How do you become homeless by the 'housing market collapsing'? If the price of housing goes down rapidly (which I guess it what's meant by 'collapse'), that makes it more affordable, not less.
- cmdshiftf4 6y ago
  What do you think happens the tenants when the landlord's properties go into foreclosure? What do you think happens mortgage lending in such a scenario? What percentage of current renters have a 20% downpayment ready for even something as large as a 50% drop in home values? In Toronto, last I checked it as 1.1m for the average house and about 800k for a reasonable condo. How many current renters do you honestly think have $110k/$80 ready for a downpayment? A housing market collapse only benefits those with great sums of capital on the sidelines waiting to deploy.
  - raxxorrax 6y ago
    Granted, there is a problem of someone doing an "Amazon", but these dangers can all be accounted for and cheap homes would vastly benefit the younger generation. Granted, maybe progressive taxes on property are needed, but I don't see problems. So 1.1m for a house is probably a problem. What is the alternative to fixing that?
    - marketgod 6y ago
      You can't fix that in Toronto. You have to build more but the population of Toronto is growing significantly so even if you do it won't fix the issue. If you save $100k the monthly $5500 mortgage won't get paid with the salaries. Two big things that are being discussed by citizen's are restrictions for purchasing by a non citizen and limits on Airbnb renting.
    - cmdshiftf4 6y ago
      >cheap homes would vastly benefit the younger generation The USA, Ireland and others have already been through housing busts in the last 10-15 years and it had no effect on home ownership. >So 1.1m for a house is probably a problem. What is the alternative to fixing that? Keep in mind we're talking about prices in some of the most attractive places to live in, in North America. Places that are also the target of skilled immigration and migrants with money also. As you probably know, it might be $1m for a starter condo in NYC, but you can pick up a detached house in a decent area elsewhere for a quarter of that. The unaffordability of the cities is a function of supply vs demand. If you want to bring down city property prices, simply reduce the need for cities.
cheez 6y ago
I rely on people making decisions in their own best interest so they would find an economically sustainable solution. CERB prevents this.
Scoundreller 6y ago
Punitive vacant property taxes would solve that. You can’t create more homeless when there’s just as much housing to go around as there was before.

raxxorrax 6y ago

Truly remarkable. I think if people just could afford houses after a collapse like this, the economic benefits would probably be immeasurable.

cylinder 6y ago

everyone always says this as if housing and the economy are two separate things. you cannot have a strong economy while housing has crashed. housing is at the top of the needs hierarchy. when people have money they will put as much as they can into housing. so if the govt gives everyone $10,000, probably 30-50% of that will flow to housing. that doesn't mean that their intention or only goal is to "support the housing market."

smooth_remmy 6y ago
You can absolutely have a strong economy when housing has crashed. Housing crashed = cheaper housing = more labor mobility = labor can spend more money on their "higher level needs" like eating at restaurants or elective medical care or online shopping. Would you say "you cannot have a strong economy while the food prices have crashed"? Obviously not, lowered food prices would be seen as a good thing by everyone.
- blaser-waffle 6y ago
  > Obviously not, lowered food prices would be seen as a good thing by everyone. Until the companies providing the food go out of business. Or get bought out by foreign firms with no incentive to provide good food or service, e.g. Tim Hortons (owned by burger king, which is in turn owned by a Brazilian firm).