21 ms·

Boston Dynamics shop: Spot Explorer

216 points by sekai 6y ago

maxwellito 6y ago
The FAQ has concerning points: > Are there limits to what I am allowed to do with Spot? > Spot should never be used to harm or intimidate any person or animal or for any illegal or ultra-hazardous purpose. Our warranty of Spot becomes void and we may disable some or all of its functionality upon any such use. _should_
- tartuffe78 6y ago
  Unless a secret court rules we have to let you.
- ipnon 6y ago
  1. A robot may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.
  - newsbinator 6y ago
    Easier said than parsed! (As all Asimov's Robot stories pointed out)
  - informatimago 6y ago
    Asimov's laws are only good for a lifetime writing career in exploring their exceptions. Is there any Asimov story where the laws were applied strictly and successfully? I don't remember one.
    - ipnon 6y ago
      I think most of the Robot stories are used to illustrate the woeful logical contradictions in simplistic rule sets. You might be able to extend this idea to how we as people follow the law, whether natural or political.
      - yellowapple 6y ago
        > I think most of the Robot stories are used to illustrate the woeful logical contradictions in simplistic rule sets. Literally all of them (from what I remember; it's been awhile since I've read the collection) revolve around problems caused specifically by trying to circumvent or modify the Three Laws, the moral of the stories being "This is why the Three Laws in their specific ordering are necessary for robotics to not bring about the demise of humanity".
- jessaustin 6y ago
  It's good that they have this language. My first thought was that some rich asshole would want to "release the hounds" on unwanted visitors, only with machine-gun-equipped deathbots rather than abused, hungry Dobermanns. It may not be so good if this means they can actually monitor robot use in order to enforce this requirement?
- ourmandave 6y ago
  Our warranty of Spot becomes void and we may disable some or all of its functionality upon any such use. So Spots are connected back to Boston Dynamics (like Teslas to Tesla) and they can brick your device anytime? What kind of metrics are they collecting?
  - DonHopkins 6y ago
    They don't brick them, they impound them. For lesser violations they can make it temporarily play dead.
    - abnry 6y ago
      "Daddy, where did Spot go?" "He's living on a farm now little girl."
  - techlaw 6y ago
    Selected Q/A from the 'SPOT PRIVACY NOTICE' [1]. Of interest is that access to the Performance Log is required at "license renewal time [...] before a new key will be issued." I've not seen other info about their licensing terms but am curious to read those if somebody has a link to those details. According to the Spot Privacy Notice, Performance Log includes: - Your robot’s serial number. - Information about usage such as how long the robot has been operated, how far it walked, how many times it fell, how often a particular API was used. - When key events like powering on or fault detection occurred. - Safety-related data such as collisions or falls. - Usage of the controller application. - High-level information about maps you collect, such as how many waypoints, how they’re connected, how well Spot understands where it is. - Details about communications loss events. Q: Who will have access to my data? A: Access to your data will be limited to Boston Dynamics customer support and individuals related to improving the product. Q: Under what circumstances is Spot data transmitted to Boston Dynamics? A: Service Logs: Only when explicitly sent by you as part of a service request. Performance Logs: Regularly and automatically, whenever the tablet is connected to the Internet. [emphasis added] Q: Does Boston Dynamics retain my data? A: Service Logs: Deleted when a service ticket is resolved. Performance Logs: Yes, this data is retained as long as it is necessary for performance improvements to Spot robots. Q: What if I don’t use the tablet or Android app with Spot? A: If you have a Spot Explorer we’ll ask you for your Performance Log at license renewal time. At that point you will have to use Spot’s Android App to transfer the log before a new key will be issued. [emphasis added] Q: Does Spot require Internet access? A: No. In order to facilitate transmission of diagnostic data we do require you to periodically connect your tablet to the robot, which automatically transfers the data from the robot, and then connect that tablet to the Internet. [1] https://www.bostondynamics.com/spot/privacy-notice https://www.bostondynamics.com/spot/privacy-notice
- paxys 6y ago
  Like how iTunes can't be used to develop nuclear weapons.
swiley 6y ago
I wonder what the software looks like. Is it open source? What kind of network connectivity does it need? What kind of training is needed to program the robot? The price feels low to me, people pay more for cars.
- bhhaskin 6y ago
  Adam Savage over on Tested does a bit of a review of one. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-PdPtqw78k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-PdPtqw78k
- jcims 6y ago
  Dunno, anyone from Unitree in here that can comment? :P
warent 6y ago
I bet we'll see this appear in some Hollywood films!
- paxys 6y ago
  Nah, it's still going to be a lot easier to animate a robot rather than train this one do what you want.
  - dllthomas 6y ago
    It's harder to get actors to respond realistically to an animated robot than a physical one. Depending on what you want, I could well see this being cheaper and easier. At the limit, consider if you only need stuff it can do out of box, and BD will lend you one for promotional purposes or you can resell it with minimal depreciation.
  - TheGallopedHigh 6y ago
    Then why would Disney pile money into an acrobatic robot? I think there must be a use case there somewhere
- danbmil99 6y ago
  The recent War of the Worlds reboot uses Boston Dynamic robots as the main protagonists
computerfriend 6y ago
> U.S. sales only. International customers, contact sales to inquire about lease options. Not any business.
- sterlind 6y ago
  That may be due to ITAR.
  - edm0nd 6y ago
    I'm sure there is already a Chinese made clone available that used stolen IP.
DonHopkins 6y ago
Dammit, there's a limit on the number of them you can purchase online at once. Only two robots may be purchased through the online store. Please request a quote to get in contact with a sales representative. Spot® Explorer Quantity: 101 Price $74,500.00 Total $7,524,500.00 Do they come painted in Dalmatian? How much is delivery? Do they deliver themselves?
- geoelectric 6y ago
  Well, of course they have a Spot check.
  - m463 6y ago
    it's called "Inspection" and costs $29,750.00 :)
- tartoran 6y ago
  Obviously Disney owns copyright for ordering exactly 101.
- penagwin 6y ago
  These are really expensive, so I think chances are if you need more than 2 then they want to make sure you get a demo with engineers, probably custom contracts/pricing, etc. Probably a fraud prevention thing too given how much money it is.
- abledon 6y ago
  pay 500$ more and have it hand painted by some starving artists in NYC
- def8cefe 6y ago
  Those are gonna be some expensive coats.
- systemvoltage 6y ago
  This comment belongs on Reddit, not here.
hugofloss 6y ago
Looks very cool, but what would be common use cases for this robot? Could it carry bags to base camp on everest?
- s_dev 6y ago
  Moving building materials "the last mile" in places like Swiss mountains where they currently hire helicopters to move such materials.
  - teej 6y ago
    Max payload is only 31lbs unfortunately
    - jfarlow 6y ago
      In a fleet, or at least all the time, that's not so bad. Get 6 running, shifts of 2, you can haul quite a bit in a week with some electricity.
      - cglace 6y ago
        At that price point what is it better than? A human can carry significantly more for a fraction of the price. 31 lbs is essentially nothing.
    - s_dev 6y ago
      A robot that works a 1% the rate is still cost effective if he's 0.9% of the price. Those helicopters are hired at hundreads of thousands of Euros per day and billed for minutes -- they can lift a lot of the materials in a single trip. Probably will have to wait for a more heavy duty Spot though for this use case.
      - notatoad 6y ago
        a human porter can carry 30lbs and hike through any mountain trails that this robot can - it'd be a lot cheaper to hire some people than to buy a $70k robot. people can also operate for longer than 90 minutes. the helicopters are necessary because they need to carry large loads that can't be divided up, which a robot with a 30lb capacity can't help with.
ourmandave 6y ago
Bolt on a towing winch to pull people from wells and you could replace Lassie.
ClarkMills 6y ago
Could it make it across the big lawn (perhaps dropping a few batteries and electrolyte) and make it to the oval shaped room? I may have a job for Rex...
glitcher 6y ago
Wow, if you want all the add-on accessories and the service plan it can cost over $50k more!
pj_mukh 6y ago
Does anyone have any case studies on these being used in an Enterprise Setting?
teh_klev 6y ago
Probably old news but Boston Dynamics' "dog" products were the inspiration for the killer robot dogs in the "Metalhead" Black Mirror episode: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metalhead_(Black_Mirror) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metalhead_(Black_Mirror) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GM3GM299orc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GM3GM299orc It doesn't often happen but that episode genuinely gave me the heebies.
- rusk 6y ago
  I just recently came to realise it was probably partly influenced by his experiences trying to creep around the house without waking his kids ;-)
- TeMPOraL 6y ago
  Also for the 2019 War of the Worlds TV series.
- blaser-waffle 6y ago
  Man that episode was spooky. Good stuff though. Some of the autonomous micro drone stuff is also pretty scary. I think there is a (fake) youtube vid about them that's pretty scary.
  - Baeocystin 6y ago
    Here's the video you're referencing. And yes, it is chilling in its utter believability. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlO2gcs1YvM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlO2gcs1YvM
- mamurphy 6y ago
  That reminded me of the https://autonomousweapons.org https://autonomousweapons.org short horror film, Slaugherbots[0]. [0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CO6M2HsoIA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CO6M2HsoIA
  - teh_klev 6y ago
    That's very well done, and not unimaginable either.
tmaly 6y ago
I would like a version of their biped robot
aerophilic 6y ago
From the specs: BATTERY Battery capacity = 605 Wh Average runtime (no payload) = 90 mins Recharge time = 120 mins So you basically have to buy ~4 batteries ($4620 each) to get a 9 hour work day out of them...
- thebiss 6y ago
  What makes their batteries 20x more expensive? EV batteries were $176/kWh back in 2018. https://about.bnef.com/blog/behind-scenes-take-lithium-ion-battery-prices/ https://about.bnef.com/blog/behind-scenes-take-lithium-ion-b...
  - vorpalhex 6y ago
    I would hazard a guess of proprietary form factor and handling needs since these aren't mounted in a car chassis, combined with low production volumes initially.
- kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
  Cheap compared to the $1200 Ethernet port.
- hobofan 6y ago
  > a 9 hour work day out of them A _continous_ 9 hour work day. You could alternatively just program it for a 24 hour work cycle, and get the same 9 hour work day on a single battery in segments instead. EDIT: Nevermind. I assumed that it had the capabilities to dock and charge by itself (just like any robot vacuum does), but apparently it doesn't.
- s1artibartfast 6y ago
  How do you figure 9 hours? 3 batteries should be a 24 hour day if you are charging 2 and running 1
  - deleted 6y ago
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bogwog 6y ago
Could a grown man ride it like a horse? This is such a cool, unknown, yet obvious technology but I have no idea what I would use it for. Rescuing people from volcanos? Bringing you a beer? Robot dog races or fights? This is obviously designed for industrial and rescue uses, but I think it could be most successful in the entertainment industry (don't know how ethical that would be though)
- boston_sre87 6y ago
  PAYLOADS Max weight = 14 kg total (30.9 lbs) Mounting area = 850 mm (L) x 240 mm (W) x 270m m (H) Mounting interface = M5 T-slot rails Connector = DB25 (2 ports) Power supply = Unregulated DC 35-58.8V, 150W per port Integration = Available software API and hardware interface control documentation
- jefftk 6y ago
  No: "Max weight = 14 kg total (30.9 lbs)" https://shop.bostondynamics.com/DefaultStore/spot?cclcl=en_US&pid=aDl6g000000XdpZCAS https://shop.bostondynamics.com/DefaultStore/spot?cclcl=en_U...
  - jyounker 6y ago
    However, a very small child can ride it. :)
    - blaser-waffle 6y ago
      I'd be worried about pinch points or babby stickin fingers into sensors
    - jefftk 6y ago
      Not such a small child; my 4yo is about that!
- jdhn 6y ago
  Get 4 or 6 of these, hook it up to a sled with wheels, and you have your own robotic dogsledding team.
dekhn 6y ago
One of the strangest things I've ever seen was Boston Dynamics doing a Spot demo at a VC summer party at the same time somebody was demoing their next-gen Twitch-streaming drone that could circle around an object (Spot). Spot strutted about while the drone flew around it and streamed the strut to the internet. All the VCs were rushing to stream themselves while I was thinking "am I seeing the next-gen war technology?"
- Cactus2018 6y ago
  > I was thinking "am I seeing the next-gen war technology?" Did you see any coverage of Robomasters? Some light starter material from The Verge in 2016 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECr4zgK6cPA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECr4zgK6cPA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RoboMaster https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RoboMaster >> RoboMaster is an annual intercollegiate robot competition held in Shenzhen, Guangdong, China, founded and hosted by the drone tech giant DJI. First started in 2015, it is the brainchild of DJI's founder and CEO Frank Wang, and jointly sponsored by the Communist Youth League Central Committee, the All-China Students' Federation (ACSF) and the Shenzhen City Government. It is the first shooting sport-style robotics competition in China.
  - schoen 6y ago
    There are a bunch of these competitions around the world: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robot_combat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robot_combat (It looks like RoboMaster is bigger in terms of the number of participants and spectators.)
    - DonHopkins 6y ago
      Then there's the Godfather of Robot Combat, Mark Pauline, founder of Survival Research Laboratories. http://www.srl.org/ http://www.srl.org/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Pauline https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Pauline >Pauline founded SRL in 1978 and it is considered the premier practitioner of "industrial performing arts", and the forerunner of large scale machine performance. SRL is known for producing the most dangerous shows on earth. Although acknowledged as a major influence on popular competitions pitting remote-controlled robots and machines against each other, such as BattleBots and Robot Wars, Pauline shies away from rules-bound competition preferring a more anarchic approach. Machines are liberated and re-configured away from the functions they were originally meant to perform. https://books.google.nl/books?id=AI1sDwAAQBAJ&pg=PT54&lpg=PT54&dq=character+in+cyberpunk+novel+based+on+Mark+Pauline+mona+lisa&source=bl&ots=PvJyNDocEZ&sig=ACfU3U2OGeqLUsEzSTgiqMqUaDrEyt4cxQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjy5oOjuIfqAhVZQjABHXRmBu0Q6AEwAHoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=character%20in%20cyberpunk%20novel%20based%20on%20Mark%20Pauline%20mona%20lisa&f=false https://books.google.nl/books?id=AI1sDwAAQBAJ&pg=PT54&lpg=PT... >"With the character of outlaw underground robot maker Slick Henry, William Gibson has immortalized artist Mark Pauline in the novel MONA LISA OVERDRIVE." -Thinking Like a Machine: An Artists Journey into Robotics https://books.google.nl/books?id=_riKAgAAQBAJ&pg=PT158&lpg=PT158&dq=character+in+cyberpunk+novel+based+on+Mark+Pauline&source=bl&ots=ptf5pjrnv4&sig=ACfU3U0po954S5W3s3pq_YQzV8WAskkqkw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwivipu8t4fqAhVVSzABHa1-BUAQ6AEwAHoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=Mark%20Pauline&f=false https://books.google.nl/books?id=_riKAgAAQBAJ&pg=PT158&lpg=P... >"Pauline builds engines of destruction. He is the founder and director of Survival Research Laboratories, a loosely knit organization which, since 1979, has been perfecting a heavy metal theater of cruelty-scary, stupefyingly loud events in which remote-controlled weaponry, computer-directed robots, and reanimated roadkill do battle in the murk of smoke, flames, and greasy fumes." -Escape Velocity: Cyberculture at the End of the Century https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJFmGu28HVQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJFmGu28HVQ >Survival Research Laboratories Live at the Extreme Futurist Festival, LA, California, Dec 22, 2012. This is the public YouTube debut of this documentary, four years in the making. It chronicles the planning, pre-production, and performance of a full Survival Research Labs show, captured by nineteen cameras. https://www.youtube.com/user/survivalresearchlabs/videos https://www.youtube.com/user/survivalresearchlabs/videos >(lots more disturbing content in SRL's video list)
jpm_sd 6y ago
The User Guide is a fun read too. Lots of things I hadn't thought about: - pinch points and other safe handling concerns - it cannot perceive glass windows or the edge of a cliff - "entertainment" is mentioned as a possible application, but you should not operate it near pets or children https://www.bostondynamics.com/sites/default/files/inline-files/spot-user-guide-r2.0-va.pdf https://www.bostondynamics.com/sites/default/files/inline-fi...
- jonathanstrange 6y ago
  "Spot is not certified safe for in-home use or intended for use near children or others who may not appreciate the hazards associated with its operation."
- joshvm 6y ago
  Recommending there to be no glass in the environment makes sense for liability, but I would have thought a few ultrasound detectors would be sufficient for gross collision avoidance e.g. to avoid walking into a pane. Similarly forward/down-looking sensors should be able to detect ground plane discontinuities. I guess the stereo isn't robust enough to do that reliably.
- 11thEarlOfMar 6y ago
  Wow, cliff detection... Anybots had that same limitation in 2009. Would have thought it'd be solved by now, particularly in a $70k robobt.
  - RandallBrown 6y ago
    My Roomba has cliff detection, but it's probably easier to do in a rolling robot that's right next to the ground.
    - xondono 6y ago
      It’s also way easier when your top speed is a few cm/s
    - 6y ago
deleted 6y ago
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ogre_codes 6y ago
So the problem they seem to be solving is slowly moving small things short distances across really rough terrain with a power source nearby. I don't see these flying off the shelves. The bulk of everything else it does could probably be done better with a drone. The only big win for the dog-bot is the 31 pound carry capacity but... I'm not even sure how that is super useful.
- vorpalhex 6y ago
  Indoor environments where a flying creature is a real hazard, especially since you can't have a drone above people (typically) but you can have a dog robot walking around as long as it's not so slow that it blocks stairs/doorways. Spot with no load (or minimal load) seems to be pretty fast? I could imagine it could do useful checks around a construction area or an empty building and alert someone if something is off - "Hey, operator, a door was opened and now it's closed." Obviously it's early tech, we're going to see first wave adopters who have an appetite for experimentation.
  - ogre_codes 6y ago
    Wheeled robots already dominate indoor environments. They cost a tiny fraction of what this costs, have better endurance, and are safer.
    - vorpalhex 6y ago
      Stairs, debris, uneven walkways. Spot does not fall even in really hazardous environments and I have seen some aggressive torture tests. [Youtube warning] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-PdPtqw78k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-PdPtqw78k
      - ogre_codes 6y ago
        Much like drones are much better at most outdoor operations, wheeled robots are much better at most indoor operations. Yes, stairs, etc etc... but if a company has a big enough need for investing in robotics, it's likely they will be willing to invest in the infrastructure (ramps, etc) to support those robots. Also, consider for a moment the following from Boston Dynamics: > Spot should always be operated at least two meters away from people That alone eliminates something like 95% of workplaces.
DonnyV 6y ago
Thats impressive, it runs for 90 min (no payload).
- dllthomas 6y ago
  See Spot run!
bawana 6y ago
So amazon could load 10 of these in a self driving truck and do same day/all night delivery 24/7. They'd only need to figure out a way to get the dogs to pick up and drop the packages. The truck could leave the 'procurement center' loaded with all the packages and make the rounds. The dogs could recharge whenever they return to the truck.
- dane-pgp 6y ago
  That's an incredible idea, and the question isn't "What's the lowest hourly wage they could pay someone across the internet to control one of these dogs?" but "How much would people be willing to pay for the fun of completing 'missions' where they guide the dog to a customer's front door and back?"
  - Invictus0 6y ago
    Even that is not a recurring cost if you can get the dog to "remember" the path taken with GPS coordinates.
- throwaway0a5e 6y ago
  You'll likely see these things augmenting expensive skilled employees by carrying their engine driven welders and air compressors around job-sites before you see them doing low margin delivery work. Most technology moves from high margin industries (where the cost per operating hour of an employee is higher and therefore easier to beat) to low margin industries.
  - 0xffff2 6y ago
    At 30lb payload, it's not carrying any welder or compressor I've ever worked with. More like fetching a socket from the toolbox that's not quite in reach, but to accomplish those sorts of small and somewhat random tasks is going to require quite a bit more NLP than we've been able to do so far.
lgl 6y ago
Or get a Chinese lookalike for, supposedly, less that $10000 [0] [1] [2] [0] https://youtu.be/2H3dzZEi-qw https://youtu.be/2H3dzZEi-qw [1] https://www.businessinsider.com/unitree-new-robot-dog-compared-to-boston-dynamics-spot-robot-2020-5 https://www.businessinsider.com/unitree-new-robot-dog-compar... [2] http://www.unitree.cc/product/ http://www.unitree.cc/product/
- Aunche 6y ago
  > The A1 weighs about 26 pounds That's about 1/7 the weight of Spot, so ~7x the cost seems about right.
  - tlb 6y ago
    Spot weighs 32.5 kg (71.7 lbs) according to https://shop.bostondynamics.com/DefaultStore/spot https://shop.bostondynamics.com/DefaultStore/spot So the A1 is 36% of Spot's weight.
    - Aunche 6y ago
      Ahh. I must have been looking at the old Spot's weight.
  - lgl 6y ago
    Probably also features the plasticky hollow frail feeling of most chinese knockoffs. Still, if anybody wants to buy 7 of these and pit them against 1 Spot, I'd watch that :)
    - yellowapple 6y ago
      Would you rather fight 100 Unitree-A1-sized Spots or 1 Spot-sized Unitree-A1?
- hckr_news 6y ago
  Cheaper because it spies on you
devalgo 6y ago
So outside of mounting a gun on it or doing basic industrial inspections it's really just a $74,500 toy right?
- jefft255 6y ago
  For researchers like me it’s an easy way to get a legged robot that just works for fairly cheap. One can then focus on perception/decision/control etc. without being a mechanical engineer.
  - devalgo 6y ago
    Well they have $20,000+ addons for better Lidar range, on device compute etc. Doesn't seem all that cheap to do interesting things..
    - jefft255 6y ago
      You can always buy and mount the lidar yourself. It is cheap for a working legged robot of this quality. Others (anymal comes to mind) are much more than that.
- tlb 6y ago
  So outside of organizing your recipe collection, this Apple ][ is just a $2000 toy, right? -- some pundit in 1977, probably
  - devalgo 6y ago
    Not sure this take feels right but it doesn't really feel sufficient to say "this time is different" either. It's pretty easy to come up with dozens of military based use cases but really difficult to find commercial ones. Possible use cases for say delivery still rely on human drivers (in delivery vans) or tele-operators for example so it's not clear there's a business case for using them.
    - tlb 6y ago
jb775 6y ago
I wonder what the employee discount is
- CWuestefeld 6y ago
  My niece works with them. They gave her one (or, presumably, loaned it to her).
MarcScott 6y ago
Why does their video only show 3D animated renderings? I want to see the actual robot, not some Cinema 4D / After Effects mock-up.
- sekai 6y ago
  Check out this video, covers some of the stuff it can do and how it works: https://youtu.be/iBt2aTjCNmI https://youtu.be/iBt2aTjCNmI
rmason 6y ago
I remember watching the price of laser printers drop. I was in a computer store once and I was examining a $10,000 model once. A salesman approached and I told him once the price drops below $1500 I am getting one. He actually laughed at me and a nearby customer weighed in I'd be waiting for a lifetime or more. Truth is I think it was three or four years before I bought a $1495 LaserJet, still have it in fact. So when Spot drops to $7500 I am getting one, just to freak out my neighbors!
- smnrchrds 6y ago
  By the time the price drops to $7500, it would be common enough that no one would get freaked out.
  - lenwood 6y ago
    Well it depends on what rmason plans to do with it.
    - rmason 6y ago
      Where I live people try to one up each other with exotic breeds of dog. I want to just blow peoples minds as I call it with my smartphone, it descends the stairs and then opens the door for me. Then I ask them, can your dog do that? Secretly I want one so I can write code to teach it 'tricks' :<).
  - markkanof 6y ago
    I know what your saying, but I think the more of these are around the more freaked out I'm going to be.
  - imron 6y ago
    https://www.bbc.com/news/av/technology-52619568/coronavirus-robot-dog-enforces-social-distancing-in-singapore-park https://www.bbc.com/news/av/technology-52619568/coronavirus-...
- sekai 6y ago
  Pretty good for a thing that can open doors or fetch a beer!
thinkloop 6y ago
I'll just leave this here: https://youtu.be/y3RIHnK0_NE https://youtu.be/y3RIHnK0_NE google + boston dynamics = skynet :p
- jpm_sd 6y ago
  1) That's a fake video, made by a visual effects company. 2) Google already bought Boston Dynamics, realized they had no idea what they were doing, and sold Boston Dynamics to another large, wealthy, easily confused organization (SoftBank).
  - thinkloop 6y ago
    I know it's cgi, their channel is pretty cool, check out Bohemian Rhapsody: https://youtu.be/PJO7bcRVPvI https://youtu.be/PJO7bcRVPvI Had no idea about Google, seems like the perfect moonshot, wonder what they were expecting.
betimsl 6y ago
This is daylight robbery.
jansan 6y ago
If you consider that owning a real dog costs roughly 30000$ for 10 years, this isn't that expensive. Of course, the price will drop considerably within the next few years and AI will improve a lot, so in 15 years it may be really common to own a robot dog. Real dogs will be for rich people. The snake scene of the original Bladerunner movie always struck me as prophetic, where Deckard asks if the snake is real and Zhora replies: "Of course it's not real. You think I would be working in a place like this if I could afford a real snake?" https://youtu.be/rmpfavbc7PE?t=116 https://youtu.be/rmpfavbc7PE?t=116 (slight nipple warning)
motohagiography 6y ago
Use cases I could think of would include: - litter collection in parks, beaches, and ravines - job site tool delivery / mobile tool caddie - mobile vending at music festivals if those ever happen again - archaeological / mineral exploration - wildlife conservation and monitoring - strawberry, tomato and other low to the ground fruit picking The quadruped cases are different from the bipedal cases. The surveillance and security use cases aren't that interesting because to me those use cases are like the woodworking and electronics equivalents of clocks and ashtrays. You could train it to avoid people, and just be a wandering background sensor array for things like volatile chemicals in airport and public transport settings, etc. Such interesting times we live in.
- totalZero 6y ago
  All of those tasks seem much cheaper to accomplish with people. Also I'd love to meet a workman who would prefer to have a $75k caddy, rather than simply buying $25k worth of new tools and getting up himself to go grab them whenever needed. The price point matters.
  - jachee 6y ago
    As I understand/perceive it, current price point is aimed at R&D of use cases for when that price inevitably drops.
    - totalZero 6y ago
      I think you may be mistaken; Raibert said in 2018 that there would be commercial availability in 2019. I think this is simply the delayed fulfillment of that commercial availability timetable. Some of these devices have been with potential customers (including police) for several months now. And the product has been in development in this form since 2016, or far longer if you consider it an extension of other quadruped robots from Boston Dynamics. There's already been a fair bit of R&D. Perhaps what you mean is that the price will drop when demand grows. I'm sure that Raibert is hoping the same.
- DonHopkins 6y ago
lurquer 6y ago
The technology is great. But, real honestly, can it do anything that a well-trained German shepherd can't? Granted it's a hassle maintaining a kennel of well-trained dogs, plus medical, food, etc. But, for $75k if I had some specific use for a quadruped, I think I'd look into getting a dog.
- neotriple 6y ago
  I mean...you can extrapolate this line of thinking to any piece of technology...
  - lurquer 6y ago
    Well, some technology can't be replicated by living creatures... I could hire 10,000 book-keepers and they still wouldn't be as fast or as accurate at handling my company's finances than an old pirated copy of Quickbooks. On the other hand, would I spend $7,000 on a state of the art sex doll? I'd probably just head to the bar, spend $50 or so on drinks, and take home a female human. But, I'm cheap... Some will spend the $75k to have an automated quadruped robot fetch them their sex doll. As for me, I'll just bring my little chihuahua to the bar, use him to flirt with some girl, and head home with the dog, the girl, and some beer all for much less than $75k.
totalZero 6y ago
These things are kind of useless in the real world.
- lucb1e 6y ago
  If you had read the thread, at least half the comments (many of which posted hours before you) say exactly that (like every time when someone says "unpopular opinion but..."), and without any sort of argumentation your comment doesn't really tell anyone anything.
  - totalZero 6y ago
    Judging by the other comments ("Finally! Something to retrieve a socket wrench from all the way across the room!"), my view that this robot is utterly useless is indeed an unpopular opinion. This is HN and people love the "oh look this is so tech" kind of story. The whole startup scene is about it. I'm not seeing a ton of other people who said the same thing prior to my comment, but to placate you I edited my comment to remove the "unpopular" part. I would ask that you reply to what I say, rather than the specific wording. If I may point it out, your comment critiqued my choice of words while totally ignoring the point I stated. The argument is: these things are useless in the real world. This argument is falsifiable: come up with a use case for this robot that is real-world reasonable given the price point and other practical considerations. If BD is charging $75k for a product that has been in development im one form or another for 10+ years, it seems reasonable that the burden is on BD to prove it's a useful product. Judging by the history of the product, it seems clear that it's a novelty item. The DoD turned its back on the very loud BigDog, and Google handed BD off to Softbank when they weren't able to answer the question, "so, how do we make money from selling this robot to consumers?" You can buy three Ford pickup trucks, brand spanking new, for the price of one of these robots. Boston Dynamics isn't exactly a company that makes products. They are a bunch of researchers who turn money into technology. That technology may involve impressive robotic motion, but not every impressive thing is useful to consumers. There's a very strong sense among many robotics weenies at MIT that, if you make cool stuff, the DoD or some major corporation will eventually reward you with money that allows you to make more cool stuff. That sense is embodied by Boston Dynamics, in my mind. It doesn't translate to a useful product, whether intended for the consumer, commercial applications, or heavy industry. And the dangerous bit is that this engineering philosophy of "find someone who will pay us to keep making cool useless stuff" only serves to create tools for the over-funded, which in our society means militaries, police, and other anti-human actors. So the most likely use of this product, if there is any use at all, is a destructive and anti-people application. But I don't think it's very useful even for those purposes, because of price, fragility, need to recharge, light payload, etc. Be honest. Can you think of any specific application where this product is better than something else (including human labor) that can be bought for $75k?
tpmx 6y ago
Does anyone know what kind of motor/drive Spot uses? How do they get that precision/torque/speed? Brushless motors + planetary gears + high res optical/magnetic encoders + software for backlash compensation?
azangru 6y ago
Someone should tell their web team not to put 25MB png images as product previews :-) (https://shop.bostondynamics.com/DefaultStore/ccrz__ProductList?categoryId=aCq6g00000000tVCAQ&cclcl=en_US https://shop.bostondynamics.com/DefaultStore/ccrz__ProductLi..., Spot Enterprise column)
yellowapple 6y ago
Okay, I get they need to amortize R&D, but $1275 for a hunk of plastic with two ports and some wires coming out of it? Did they fill it with diamonds or something? Very curious about the BOM on that, given that it looks like it costs less than a dollar to make.
- leafmeal 6y ago
  I guess if you're already paying $70k for Spot, the adapter's price is negligible.
  - yellowapple 6y ago
    I guess. It still makes me wonder about the margins for other accessories (let alone Spot itself).
zaroth 6y ago
I just love robots, and I’ve purchased a few, but I just never had the time to play around with trying to build my own so I’m a bit naive of what is state of the art and how quickly we can expect it to advance. Maybe when my son is a bit older I will get to build some with him. I have a robot vacuum which actually does an Ok job on the first floor despite the software being extremely naive. I have a robot lawnmower which, after laying the guide wire, does an incredible job on a fairly complex half acre and was worth every penny, and also accomplishes its task with surprising naïveté. So far the success of robots seems to be in finding ways to reduce a seemingly complex task into a random walk. I dream of robots doing all sorts of helpful things. Big robots that help me move stuff around the house (and maybe even up the stairs?). Little robots that can unclog a drain. Ridiculous gyroscoping telescoping robots that scoot around the kitchen and put away the dishes from the dishwasher in perfect stacks way up on the highest shelf. Specs say Spot weighs 70lbs and can hold 30lbs. 2:1 seems actually... not bad. What’s the chance the tech evolves to 1:1 in 10 years? Is weight to payload ratio even a reasonable metric? I feel like the three big things are 1) degrees of freedom, 2) torque, 3) finesse. I don’t really have a good grasp of how much the problem is breaking down at either the software or the hardware level where I’ve never seen a robot that could really do all 3, even if it was a totally preprogrammed hard-coded action.
SavageHenry 6y ago
the less-capable Unitree A1 quadruped is priced at <$10k

216 points by sekai 6y ago

The FAQ has concerning points: > Are there limits to what I am allowed to do with Spot? > Spot should never be used to harm or intimidate any person or animal or for any illegal or ultra-hazardous purpose. Our warranty of Spot becomes void and we may disable some or all of its functionality upon any such use. _should_

tartuffe78 6y ago
Unless a secret court rules we have to let you.
ipnon 6y ago
1. A robot may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.
- newsbinator 6y ago
  Easier said than parsed! (As all Asimov's Robot stories pointed out)
- informatimago 6y ago
  Asimov's laws are only good for a lifetime writing career in exploring their exceptions. Is there any Asimov story where the laws were applied strictly and successfully? I don't remember one.
  - ipnon 6y ago
    I think most of the Robot stories are used to illustrate the woeful logical contradictions in simplistic rule sets. You might be able to extend this idea to how we as people follow the law, whether natural or political.
    - yellowapple 6y ago
      > I think most of the Robot stories are used to illustrate the woeful logical contradictions in simplistic rule sets. Literally all of them (from what I remember; it's been awhile since I've read the collection) revolve around problems caused specifically by trying to circumvent or modify the Three Laws, the moral of the stories being "This is why the Three Laws in their specific ordering are necessary for robotics to not bring about the demise of humanity".
jessaustin 6y ago
It's good that they have this language. My first thought was that some rich asshole would want to "release the hounds" on unwanted visitors, only with machine-gun-equipped deathbots rather than abused, hungry Dobermanns. It may not be so good if this means they can actually monitor robot use in order to enforce this requirement?
ourmandave 6y ago
Our warranty of Spot becomes void and we may disable some or all of its functionality upon any such use. So Spots are connected back to Boston Dynamics (like Teslas to Tesla) and they can brick your device anytime? What kind of metrics are they collecting?
- DonHopkins 6y ago
  They don't brick them, they impound them. For lesser violations they can make it temporarily play dead.
  - abnry 6y ago
    "Daddy, where did Spot go?" "He's living on a farm now little girl."
- techlaw 6y ago
  Selected Q/A from the 'SPOT PRIVACY NOTICE' [1]. Of interest is that access to the Performance Log is required at "license renewal time [...] before a new key will be issued." I've not seen other info about their licensing terms but am curious to read those if somebody has a link to those details. According to the Spot Privacy Notice, Performance Log includes: - Your robot’s serial number. - Information about usage such as how long the robot has been operated, how far it walked, how many times it fell, how often a particular API was used. - When key events like powering on or fault detection occurred. - Safety-related data such as collisions or falls. - Usage of the controller application. - High-level information about maps you collect, such as how many waypoints, how they’re connected, how well Spot understands where it is. - Details about communications loss events. Q: Who will have access to my data? A: Access to your data will be limited to Boston Dynamics customer support and individuals related to improving the product. Q: Under what circumstances is Spot data transmitted to Boston Dynamics? A: Service Logs: Only when explicitly sent by you as part of a service request. Performance Logs: Regularly and automatically, whenever the tablet is connected to the Internet. [emphasis added] Q: Does Boston Dynamics retain my data? A: Service Logs: Deleted when a service ticket is resolved. Performance Logs: Yes, this data is retained as long as it is necessary for performance improvements to Spot robots. Q: What if I don’t use the tablet or Android app with Spot? A: If you have a Spot Explorer we’ll ask you for your Performance Log at license renewal time. At that point you will have to use Spot’s Android App to transfer the log before a new key will be issued. [emphasis added] Q: Does Spot require Internet access? A: No. In order to facilitate transmission of diagnostic data we do require you to periodically connect your tablet to the robot, which automatically transfers the data from the robot, and then connect that tablet to the Internet. [1] https://www.bostondynamics.com/spot/privacy-notice https://www.bostondynamics.com/spot/privacy-notice
paxys 6y ago
Like how iTunes can't be used to develop nuclear weapons.

swiley 6y ago

I wonder what the software looks like. Is it open source? What kind of network connectivity does it need? What kind of training is needed to program the robot? The price feels low to me, people pay more for cars.

bhhaskin 6y ago
Adam Savage over on Tested does a bit of a review of one. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-PdPtqw78k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-PdPtqw78k
jcims 6y ago
Dunno, anyone from Unitree in here that can comment? :P

warent 6y ago

I bet we'll see this appear in some Hollywood films!

paxys 6y ago
Nah, it's still going to be a lot easier to animate a robot rather than train this one do what you want.
- dllthomas 6y ago
  It's harder to get actors to respond realistically to an animated robot than a physical one. Depending on what you want, I could well see this being cheaper and easier. At the limit, consider if you only need stuff it can do out of box, and BD will lend you one for promotional purposes or you can resell it with minimal depreciation.
- TheGallopedHigh 6y ago
  Then why would Disney pile money into an acrobatic robot? I think there must be a use case there somewhere
danbmil99 6y ago
The recent War of the Worlds reboot uses Boston Dynamic robots as the main protagonists

computerfriend 6y ago

> U.S. sales only. International customers, contact sales to inquire about lease options. Not any business.

sterlind 6y ago
That may be due to ITAR.
- edm0nd 6y ago
  I'm sure there is already a Chinese made clone available that used stolen IP.

DonHopkins 6y ago

Dammit, there's a limit on the number of them you can purchase online at once. Only two robots may be purchased through the online store. Please request a quote to get in contact with a sales representative. Spot® Explorer Quantity: 101 Price $74,500.00 Total $7,524,500.00 Do they come painted in Dalmatian? How much is delivery? Do they deliver themselves?

geoelectric 6y ago
Well, of course they have a Spot check.
- m463 6y ago
  it's called "Inspection" and costs $29,750.00 :)
tartoran 6y ago
Obviously Disney owns copyright for ordering exactly 101.
penagwin 6y ago
These are really expensive, so I think chances are if you need more than 2 then they want to make sure you get a demo with engineers, probably custom contracts/pricing, etc. Probably a fraud prevention thing too given how much money it is.
abledon 6y ago
pay 500$ more and have it hand painted by some starving artists in NYC
def8cefe 6y ago
Those are gonna be some expensive coats.
systemvoltage 6y ago
This comment belongs on Reddit, not here.

hugofloss 6y ago

Looks very cool, but what would be common use cases for this robot? Could it carry bags to base camp on everest?

s_dev 6y ago
Moving building materials "the last mile" in places like Swiss mountains where they currently hire helicopters to move such materials.
- teej 6y ago
  Max payload is only 31lbs unfortunately
  - jfarlow 6y ago
    In a fleet, or at least all the time, that's not so bad. Get 6 running, shifts of 2, you can haul quite a bit in a week with some electricity.
    - cglace 6y ago
      At that price point what is it better than? A human can carry significantly more for a fraction of the price. 31 lbs is essentially nothing.
  - s_dev 6y ago
    A robot that works a 1% the rate is still cost effective if he's 0.9% of the price. Those helicopters are hired at hundreads of thousands of Euros per day and billed for minutes -- they can lift a lot of the materials in a single trip. Probably will have to wait for a more heavy duty Spot though for this use case.
    - notatoad 6y ago
      a human porter can carry 30lbs and hike through any mountain trails that this robot can - it'd be a lot cheaper to hire some people than to buy a $70k robot. people can also operate for longer than 90 minutes. the helicopters are necessary because they need to carry large loads that can't be divided up, which a robot with a 30lb capacity can't help with.

ourmandave 6y ago

Bolt on a towing winch to pull people from wells and you could replace Lassie.

ClarkMills 6y ago

Could it make it across the big lawn (perhaps dropping a few batteries and electrolyte) and make it to the oval shaped room? I may have a job for Rex...

glitcher 6y ago

Wow, if you want all the add-on accessories and the service plan it can cost over $50k more!

pj_mukh 6y ago

Does anyone have any case studies on these being used in an Enterprise Setting?

teh_klev 6y ago

Probably old news but Boston Dynamics' "dog" products were the inspiration for the killer robot dogs in the "Metalhead" Black Mirror episode: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metalhead_(Black_Mirror) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metalhead_(Black_Mirror) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GM3GM299orc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GM3GM299orc It doesn't often happen but that episode genuinely gave me the heebies.

rusk 6y ago
I just recently came to realise it was probably partly influenced by his experiences trying to creep around the house without waking his kids ;-)
TeMPOraL 6y ago
Also for the 2019 War of the Worlds TV series.
blaser-waffle 6y ago
Man that episode was spooky. Good stuff though. Some of the autonomous micro drone stuff is also pretty scary. I think there is a (fake) youtube vid about them that's pretty scary.
- Baeocystin 6y ago
  Here's the video you're referencing. And yes, it is chilling in its utter believability. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlO2gcs1YvM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlO2gcs1YvM
mamurphy 6y ago
That reminded me of the https://autonomousweapons.org https://autonomousweapons.org short horror film, Slaugherbots[0]. [0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CO6M2HsoIA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CO6M2HsoIA
- teh_klev 6y ago
  That's very well done, and not unimaginable either.

tmaly 6y ago

I would like a version of their biped robot

aerophilic 6y ago

From the specs: BATTERY Battery capacity = 605 Wh Average runtime (no payload) = 90 mins Recharge time = 120 mins So you basically have to buy ~4 batteries ($4620 each) to get a 9 hour work day out of them...

thebiss 6y ago
What makes their batteries 20x more expensive? EV batteries were $176/kWh back in 2018. https://about.bnef.com/blog/behind-scenes-take-lithium-ion-battery-prices/ https://about.bnef.com/blog/behind-scenes-take-lithium-ion-b...
- vorpalhex 6y ago
  I would hazard a guess of proprietary form factor and handling needs since these aren't mounted in a car chassis, combined with low production volumes initially.
kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
Cheap compared to the $1200 Ethernet port.
hobofan 6y ago
> a 9 hour work day out of them A _continous_ 9 hour work day. You could alternatively just program it for a 24 hour work cycle, and get the same 9 hour work day on a single battery in segments instead. EDIT: Nevermind. I assumed that it had the capabilities to dock and charge by itself (just like any robot vacuum does), but apparently it doesn't.
s1artibartfast 6y ago
How do you figure 9 hours? 3 batteries should be a 24 hour day if you are charging 2 and running 1
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- 6y ago

bogwog 6y ago

Could a grown man ride it like a horse? This is such a cool, unknown, yet obvious technology but I have no idea what I would use it for. Rescuing people from volcanos? Bringing you a beer? Robot dog races or fights? This is obviously designed for industrial and rescue uses, but I think it could be most successful in the entertainment industry (don't know how ethical that would be though)

boston_sre87 6y ago
PAYLOADS Max weight = 14 kg total (30.9 lbs) Mounting area = 850 mm (L) x 240 mm (W) x 270m m (H) Mounting interface = M5 T-slot rails Connector = DB25 (2 ports) Power supply = Unregulated DC 35-58.8V, 150W per port Integration = Available software API and hardware interface control documentation
jefftk 6y ago
No: "Max weight = 14 kg total (30.9 lbs)" https://shop.bostondynamics.com/DefaultStore/spot?cclcl=en_US&pid=aDl6g000000XdpZCAS https://shop.bostondynamics.com/DefaultStore/spot?cclcl=en_U...
- jyounker 6y ago
  However, a very small child can ride it. :)
  - blaser-waffle 6y ago
    I'd be worried about pinch points or babby stickin fingers into sensors
  - jefftk 6y ago
    Not such a small child; my 4yo is about that!
jdhn 6y ago
Get 4 or 6 of these, hook it up to a sled with wheels, and you have your own robotic dogsledding team.

dekhn 6y ago

One of the strangest things I've ever seen was Boston Dynamics doing a Spot demo at a VC summer party at the same time somebody was demoing their next-gen Twitch-streaming drone that could circle around an object (Spot). Spot strutted about while the drone flew around it and streamed the strut to the internet. All the VCs were rushing to stream themselves while I was thinking "am I seeing the next-gen war technology?"

Cactus2018 6y ago
> I was thinking "am I seeing the next-gen war technology?" Did you see any coverage of Robomasters? Some light starter material from The Verge in 2016 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECr4zgK6cPA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECr4zgK6cPA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RoboMaster https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RoboMaster >> RoboMaster is an annual intercollegiate robot competition held in Shenzhen, Guangdong, China, founded and hosted by the drone tech giant DJI. First started in 2015, it is the brainchild of DJI's founder and CEO Frank Wang, and jointly sponsored by the Communist Youth League Central Committee, the All-China Students' Federation (ACSF) and the Shenzhen City Government. It is the first shooting sport-style robotics competition in China.
- schoen 6y ago
  There are a bunch of these competitions around the world: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robot_combat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robot_combat (It looks like RoboMaster is bigger in terms of the number of participants and spectators.)
  - DonHopkins 6y ago
    Then there's the Godfather of Robot Combat, Mark Pauline, founder of Survival Research Laboratories. http://www.srl.org/ http://www.srl.org/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Pauline https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Pauline >Pauline founded SRL in 1978 and it is considered the premier practitioner of "industrial performing arts", and the forerunner of large scale machine performance. SRL is known for producing the most dangerous shows on earth. Although acknowledged as a major influence on popular competitions pitting remote-controlled robots and machines against each other, such as BattleBots and Robot Wars, Pauline shies away from rules-bound competition preferring a more anarchic approach. Machines are liberated and re-configured away from the functions they were originally meant to perform. https://books.google.nl/books?id=AI1sDwAAQBAJ&pg=PT54&lpg=PT54&dq=character+in+cyberpunk+novel+based+on+Mark+Pauline+mona+lisa&source=bl&ots=PvJyNDocEZ&sig=ACfU3U2OGeqLUsEzSTgiqMqUaDrEyt4cxQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjy5oOjuIfqAhVZQjABHXRmBu0Q6AEwAHoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=character%20in%20cyberpunk%20novel%20based%20on%20Mark%20Pauline%20mona%20lisa&f=false https://books.google.nl/books?id=AI1sDwAAQBAJ&pg=PT54&lpg=PT... >"With the character of outlaw underground robot maker Slick Henry, William Gibson has immortalized artist Mark Pauline in the novel MONA LISA OVERDRIVE." -Thinking Like a Machine: An Artists Journey into Robotics https://books.google.nl/books?id=_riKAgAAQBAJ&pg=PT158&lpg=PT158&dq=character+in+cyberpunk+novel+based+on+Mark+Pauline&source=bl&ots=ptf5pjrnv4&sig=ACfU3U0po954S5W3s3pq_YQzV8WAskkqkw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwivipu8t4fqAhVVSzABHa1-BUAQ6AEwAHoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=Mark%20Pauline&f=false https://books.google.nl/books?id=_riKAgAAQBAJ&pg=PT158&lpg=P... >"Pauline builds engines of destruction. He is the founder and director of Survival Research Laboratories, a loosely knit organization which, since 1979, has been perfecting a heavy metal theater of cruelty-scary, stupefyingly loud events in which remote-controlled weaponry, computer-directed robots, and reanimated roadkill do battle in the murk of smoke, flames, and greasy fumes." -Escape Velocity: Cyberculture at the End of the Century https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJFmGu28HVQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJFmGu28HVQ >Survival Research Laboratories Live at the Extreme Futurist Festival, LA, California, Dec 22, 2012. This is the public YouTube debut of this documentary, four years in the making. It chronicles the planning, pre-production, and performance of a full Survival Research Labs show, captured by nineteen cameras. https://www.youtube.com/user/survivalresearchlabs/videos https://www.youtube.com/user/survivalresearchlabs/videos >(lots more disturbing content in SRL's video list)

jpm_sd 6y ago

The User Guide is a fun read too. Lots of things I hadn't thought about: - pinch points and other safe handling concerns - it cannot perceive glass windows or the edge of a cliff - "entertainment" is mentioned as a possible application, but you should not operate it near pets or children https://www.bostondynamics.com/sites/default/files/inline-files/spot-user-guide-r2.0-va.pdf https://www.bostondynamics.com/sites/default/files/inline-fi...

jonathanstrange 6y ago
"Spot is not certified safe for in-home use or intended for use near children or others who may not appreciate the hazards associated with its operation."
joshvm 6y ago
Recommending there to be no glass in the environment makes sense for liability, but I would have thought a few ultrasound detectors would be sufficient for gross collision avoidance e.g. to avoid walking into a pane. Similarly forward/down-looking sensors should be able to detect ground plane discontinuities. I guess the stereo isn't robust enough to do that reliably.
11thEarlOfMar 6y ago
Wow, cliff detection... Anybots had that same limitation in 2009. Would have thought it'd be solved by now, particularly in a $70k robobt.
- RandallBrown 6y ago
  My Roomba has cliff detection, but it's probably easier to do in a rolling robot that's right next to the ground.
  - xondono 6y ago
    It’s also way easier when your top speed is a few cm/s
  - 6y ago

deleted 6y ago

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ogre_codes 6y ago

So the problem they seem to be solving is slowly moving small things short distances across really rough terrain with a power source nearby. I don't see these flying off the shelves. The bulk of everything else it does could probably be done better with a drone. The only big win for the dog-bot is the 31 pound carry capacity but... I'm not even sure how that is super useful.

vorpalhex 6y ago
Indoor environments where a flying creature is a real hazard, especially since you can't have a drone above people (typically) but you can have a dog robot walking around as long as it's not so slow that it blocks stairs/doorways. Spot with no load (or minimal load) seems to be pretty fast? I could imagine it could do useful checks around a construction area or an empty building and alert someone if something is off - "Hey, operator, a door was opened and now it's closed." Obviously it's early tech, we're going to see first wave adopters who have an appetite for experimentation.
- ogre_codes 6y ago
  Wheeled robots already dominate indoor environments. They cost a tiny fraction of what this costs, have better endurance, and are safer.
  - vorpalhex 6y ago
    Stairs, debris, uneven walkways. Spot does not fall even in really hazardous environments and I have seen some aggressive torture tests. [Youtube warning] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-PdPtqw78k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-PdPtqw78k
    - ogre_codes 6y ago
      Much like drones are much better at most outdoor operations, wheeled robots are much better at most indoor operations. Yes, stairs, etc etc... but if a company has a big enough need for investing in robotics, it's likely they will be willing to invest in the infrastructure (ramps, etc) to support those robots. Also, consider for a moment the following from Boston Dynamics: > Spot should always be operated at least two meters away from people That alone eliminates something like 95% of workplaces.

DonnyV 6y ago

Thats impressive, it runs for 90 min (no payload).

dllthomas 6y ago
See Spot run!

bawana 6y ago

So amazon could load 10 of these in a self driving truck and do same day/all night delivery 24/7. They'd only need to figure out a way to get the dogs to pick up and drop the packages. The truck could leave the 'procurement center' loaded with all the packages and make the rounds. The dogs could recharge whenever they return to the truck.

dane-pgp 6y ago
That's an incredible idea, and the question isn't "What's the lowest hourly wage they could pay someone across the internet to control one of these dogs?" but "How much would people be willing to pay for the fun of completing 'missions' where they guide the dog to a customer's front door and back?"
- Invictus0 6y ago
  Even that is not a recurring cost if you can get the dog to "remember" the path taken with GPS coordinates.
throwaway0a5e 6y ago
You'll likely see these things augmenting expensive skilled employees by carrying their engine driven welders and air compressors around job-sites before you see them doing low margin delivery work. Most technology moves from high margin industries (where the cost per operating hour of an employee is higher and therefore easier to beat) to low margin industries.
- 0xffff2 6y ago
  At 30lb payload, it's not carrying any welder or compressor I've ever worked with. More like fetching a socket from the toolbox that's not quite in reach, but to accomplish those sorts of small and somewhat random tasks is going to require quite a bit more NLP than we've been able to do so far.

lgl 6y ago

Or get a Chinese lookalike for, supposedly, less that $10000 [0] [1] [2] [0] https://youtu.be/2H3dzZEi-qw https://youtu.be/2H3dzZEi-qw [1] https://www.businessinsider.com/unitree-new-robot-dog-compared-to-boston-dynamics-spot-robot-2020-5 https://www.businessinsider.com/unitree-new-robot-dog-compar... [2] http://www.unitree.cc/product/ http://www.unitree.cc/product/

Aunche 6y ago
> The A1 weighs about 26 pounds That's about 1/7 the weight of Spot, so ~7x the cost seems about right.
- tlb 6y ago
  Spot weighs 32.5 kg (71.7 lbs) according to https://shop.bostondynamics.com/DefaultStore/spot https://shop.bostondynamics.com/DefaultStore/spot So the A1 is 36% of Spot's weight.
  - Aunche 6y ago
    Ahh. I must have been looking at the old Spot's weight.
- lgl 6y ago
  Probably also features the plasticky hollow frail feeling of most chinese knockoffs. Still, if anybody wants to buy 7 of these and pit them against 1 Spot, I'd watch that :)
  - yellowapple 6y ago
    Would you rather fight 100 Unitree-A1-sized Spots or 1 Spot-sized Unitree-A1?
hckr_news 6y ago
Cheaper because it spies on you

devalgo 6y ago

So outside of mounting a gun on it or doing basic industrial inspections it's really just a $74,500 toy right?

jefft255 6y ago
For researchers like me it’s an easy way to get a legged robot that just works for fairly cheap. One can then focus on perception/decision/control etc. without being a mechanical engineer.
- devalgo 6y ago
  Well they have $20,000+ addons for better Lidar range, on device compute etc. Doesn't seem all that cheap to do interesting things..
  - jefft255 6y ago
    You can always buy and mount the lidar yourself. It is cheap for a working legged robot of this quality. Others (anymal comes to mind) are much more than that.
tlb 6y ago
So outside of organizing your recipe collection, this Apple ][ is just a $2000 toy, right? -- some pundit in 1977, probably
- devalgo 6y ago
  Not sure this take feels right but it doesn't really feel sufficient to say "this time is different" either. It's pretty easy to come up with dozens of military based use cases but really difficult to find commercial ones. Possible use cases for say delivery still rely on human drivers (in delivery vans) or tele-operators for example so it's not clear there's a business case for using them.
  - tlb 6y ago

jb775 6y ago

I wonder what the employee discount is

CWuestefeld 6y ago
My niece works with them. They gave her one (or, presumably, loaned it to her).

MarcScott 6y ago

Why does their video only show 3D animated renderings? I want to see the actual robot, not some Cinema 4D / After Effects mock-up.

sekai 6y ago
Check out this video, covers some of the stuff it can do and how it works: https://youtu.be/iBt2aTjCNmI https://youtu.be/iBt2aTjCNmI

rmason 6y ago

I remember watching the price of laser printers drop. I was in a computer store once and I was examining a $10,000 model once. A salesman approached and I told him once the price drops below $1500 I am getting one. He actually laughed at me and a nearby customer weighed in I'd be waiting for a lifetime or more. Truth is I think it was three or four years before I bought a $1495 LaserJet, still have it in fact. So when Spot drops to $7500 I am getting one, just to freak out my neighbors!

smnrchrds 6y ago
By the time the price drops to $7500, it would be common enough that no one would get freaked out.
- lenwood 6y ago
  Well it depends on what rmason plans to do with it.
  - rmason 6y ago
    Where I live people try to one up each other with exotic breeds of dog. I want to just blow peoples minds as I call it with my smartphone, it descends the stairs and then opens the door for me. Then I ask them, can your dog do that? Secretly I want one so I can write code to teach it 'tricks' :<).
- markkanof 6y ago
  I know what your saying, but I think the more of these are around the more freaked out I'm going to be.
- imron 6y ago
  https://www.bbc.com/news/av/technology-52619568/coronavirus-robot-dog-enforces-social-distancing-in-singapore-park https://www.bbc.com/news/av/technology-52619568/coronavirus-...
sekai 6y ago
Pretty good for a thing that can open doors or fetch a beer!

thinkloop 6y ago

I'll just leave this here: https://youtu.be/y3RIHnK0_NE https://youtu.be/y3RIHnK0_NE google + boston dynamics = skynet :p

jpm_sd 6y ago
1) That's a fake video, made by a visual effects company. 2) Google already bought Boston Dynamics, realized they had no idea what they were doing, and sold Boston Dynamics to another large, wealthy, easily confused organization (SoftBank).
- thinkloop 6y ago
  I know it's cgi, their channel is pretty cool, check out Bohemian Rhapsody: https://youtu.be/PJO7bcRVPvI https://youtu.be/PJO7bcRVPvI Had no idea about Google, seems like the perfect moonshot, wonder what they were expecting.

betimsl 6y ago

This is daylight robbery.

jansan 6y ago

If you consider that owning a real dog costs roughly 30000$ for 10 years, this isn't that expensive. Of course, the price will drop considerably within the next few years and AI will improve a lot, so in 15 years it may be really common to own a robot dog. Real dogs will be for rich people. The snake scene of the original Bladerunner movie always struck me as prophetic, where Deckard asks if the snake is real and Zhora replies: "Of course it's not real. You think I would be working in a place like this if I could afford a real snake?" https://youtu.be/rmpfavbc7PE?t=116 https://youtu.be/rmpfavbc7PE?t=116 (slight nipple warning)

motohagiography 6y ago

Use cases I could think of would include: - litter collection in parks, beaches, and ravines - job site tool delivery / mobile tool caddie - mobile vending at music festivals if those ever happen again - archaeological / mineral exploration - wildlife conservation and monitoring - strawberry, tomato and other low to the ground fruit picking The quadruped cases are different from the bipedal cases. The surveillance and security use cases aren't that interesting because to me those use cases are like the woodworking and electronics equivalents of clocks and ashtrays. You could train it to avoid people, and just be a wandering background sensor array for things like volatile chemicals in airport and public transport settings, etc. Such interesting times we live in.

totalZero 6y ago
All of those tasks seem much cheaper to accomplish with people. Also I'd love to meet a workman who would prefer to have a $75k caddy, rather than simply buying $25k worth of new tools and getting up himself to go grab them whenever needed. The price point matters.
- jachee 6y ago
  As I understand/perceive it, current price point is aimed at R&D of use cases for when that price inevitably drops.
  - totalZero 6y ago
    I think you may be mistaken; Raibert said in 2018 that there would be commercial availability in 2019. I think this is simply the delayed fulfillment of that commercial availability timetable. Some of these devices have been with potential customers (including police) for several months now. And the product has been in development in this form since 2016, or far longer if you consider it an extension of other quadruped robots from Boston Dynamics. There's already been a fair bit of R&D. Perhaps what you mean is that the price will drop when demand grows. I'm sure that Raibert is hoping the same.
DonHopkins 6y ago

lurquer 6y ago

The technology is great. But, real honestly, can it do anything that a well-trained German shepherd can't? Granted it's a hassle maintaining a kennel of well-trained dogs, plus medical, food, etc. But, for $75k if I had some specific use for a quadruped, I think I'd look into getting a dog.

neotriple 6y ago
I mean...you can extrapolate this line of thinking to any piece of technology...
- lurquer 6y ago
  Well, some technology can't be replicated by living creatures... I could hire 10,000 book-keepers and they still wouldn't be as fast or as accurate at handling my company's finances than an old pirated copy of Quickbooks. On the other hand, would I spend $7,000 on a state of the art sex doll? I'd probably just head to the bar, spend $50 or so on drinks, and take home a female human. But, I'm cheap... Some will spend the $75k to have an automated quadruped robot fetch them their sex doll. As for me, I'll just bring my little chihuahua to the bar, use him to flirt with some girl, and head home with the dog, the girl, and some beer all for much less than $75k.

totalZero 6y ago

These things are kind of useless in the real world.

lucb1e 6y ago
If you had read the thread, at least half the comments (many of which posted hours before you) say exactly that (like every time when someone says "unpopular opinion but..."), and without any sort of argumentation your comment doesn't really tell anyone anything.
- totalZero 6y ago
  Judging by the other comments ("Finally! Something to retrieve a socket wrench from all the way across the room!"), my view that this robot is utterly useless is indeed an unpopular opinion. This is HN and people love the "oh look this is so tech" kind of story. The whole startup scene is about it. I'm not seeing a ton of other people who said the same thing prior to my comment, but to placate you I edited my comment to remove the "unpopular" part. I would ask that you reply to what I say, rather than the specific wording. If I may point it out, your comment critiqued my choice of words while totally ignoring the point I stated. The argument is: these things are useless in the real world. This argument is falsifiable: come up with a use case for this robot that is real-world reasonable given the price point and other practical considerations. If BD is charging $75k for a product that has been in development im one form or another for 10+ years, it seems reasonable that the burden is on BD to prove it's a useful product. Judging by the history of the product, it seems clear that it's a novelty item. The DoD turned its back on the very loud BigDog, and Google handed BD off to Softbank when they weren't able to answer the question, "so, how do we make money from selling this robot to consumers?" You can buy three Ford pickup trucks, brand spanking new, for the price of one of these robots. Boston Dynamics isn't exactly a company that makes products. They are a bunch of researchers who turn money into technology. That technology may involve impressive robotic motion, but not every impressive thing is useful to consumers. There's a very strong sense among many robotics weenies at MIT that, if you make cool stuff, the DoD or some major corporation will eventually reward you with money that allows you to make more cool stuff. That sense is embodied by Boston Dynamics, in my mind. It doesn't translate to a useful product, whether intended for the consumer, commercial applications, or heavy industry. And the dangerous bit is that this engineering philosophy of "find someone who will pay us to keep making cool useless stuff" only serves to create tools for the over-funded, which in our society means militaries, police, and other anti-human actors. So the most likely use of this product, if there is any use at all, is a destructive and anti-people application. But I don't think it's very useful even for those purposes, because of price, fragility, need to recharge, light payload, etc. Be honest. Can you think of any specific application where this product is better than something else (including human labor) that can be bought for $75k?

tpmx 6y ago

Does anyone know what kind of motor/drive Spot uses? How do they get that precision/torque/speed? Brushless motors + planetary gears + high res optical/magnetic encoders + software for backlash compensation?

azangru 6y ago

Someone should tell their web team not to put 25MB png images as product previews :-) (https://shop.bostondynamics.com/DefaultStore/ccrz__ProductList?categoryId=aCq6g00000000tVCAQ&cclcl=en_US https://shop.bostondynamics.com/DefaultStore/ccrz__ProductLi..., Spot Enterprise column)

yellowapple 6y ago

Okay, I get they need to amortize R&D, but $1275 for a hunk of plastic with two ports and some wires coming out of it? Did they fill it with diamonds or something? Very curious about the BOM on that, given that it looks like it costs less than a dollar to make.

leafmeal 6y ago
I guess if you're already paying $70k for Spot, the adapter's price is negligible.
- yellowapple 6y ago
  I guess. It still makes me wonder about the margins for other accessories (let alone Spot itself).

zaroth 6y ago

I just love robots, and I’ve purchased a few, but I just never had the time to play around with trying to build my own so I’m a bit naive of what is state of the art and how quickly we can expect it to advance. Maybe when my son is a bit older I will get to build some with him. I have a robot vacuum which actually does an Ok job on the first floor despite the software being extremely naive. I have a robot lawnmower which, after laying the guide wire, does an incredible job on a fairly complex half acre and was worth every penny, and also accomplishes its task with surprising naïveté. So far the success of robots seems to be in finding ways to reduce a seemingly complex task into a random walk. I dream of robots doing all sorts of helpful things. Big robots that help me move stuff around the house (and maybe even up the stairs?). Little robots that can unclog a drain. Ridiculous gyroscoping telescoping robots that scoot around the kitchen and put away the dishes from the dishwasher in perfect stacks way up on the highest shelf. Specs say Spot weighs 70lbs and can hold 30lbs. 2:1 seems actually... not bad. What’s the chance the tech evolves to 1:1 in 10 years? Is weight to payload ratio even a reasonable metric? I feel like the three big things are 1) degrees of freedom, 2) torque, 3) finesse. I don’t really have a good grasp of how much the problem is breaking down at either the software or the hardware level where I’ve never seen a robot that could really do all 3, even if it was a totally preprogrammed hard-coded action.

SavageHenry 6y ago

the less-capable Unitree A1 quadruped is priced at <$10k