4 ms·

I live in EU (where, generally, the police is trained to minimize-harm, rather than take-control-by-all-means), and I feel a bit the same about this list; a siz

by jagrsw 6y ago

I live in EU (where, generally, the police is trained to minimize-harm, rather than take-control-by-all-means), and I feel a bit the same about this list; a sizeable share of those videos show regular-ish riot control techniques IMO (pushing the crowd down the street etc.). Then, many show police overreaction or outright brutality. But, then, why mix all of those in one big list and call them simply 'brutality'? As much I sympathise with protestors and the cause, there's this not-very-wise tendency among this side of the conflict to portray themselves as 100% peaceful victims, and police as almost universally working for the forces of darkness. So, I see it as a sad (yet, probably, temporary) tendency, that even the side which I'm sympathising with is feeling that treating me like a gullible person is OK - "The first casualty of War is Truth".

partyboat1586 6y ago
I also live in the EU and sometimes I get annoyed by how soft our police are. I've seen multiple officers unable to take down one violent criminal. Why is there not hand to hand training and strength training? With proper training surely they could do it cleanly without injuring the perp. I've seen (videos of) cops just walking away from armed criminals, letting them rob a store then tracking them down 6 months later after they do the same thing twice more. When I look at the US I see the opposite problem. Police shooting a man in the back multiple times. Police using excessive force when arresting people for non violent crime. Police just generally power tripping. From that perspective I can see why you would want to defund the police but I really would hesitate to do that. The EU is fine with a softer police force because we mostly have no guns and when there are real terrorists we can still bring in armed police. That is not the case in the US plus you are talking about fully defunding the police. Seems like a dangerous experiment to me. Why not reform instead?
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- BigJ1211 6y ago
  I think for the same reason you see high-speed chasedowns in the US, and you don't really see that in Europe. The risks involved in catching that perp are significantly higher than simply arresting them later. (Both risk economically, as well as risk to human lives). I think they should focus on demilitarising the police in the US, with that you also reduce the funding of the police. As a lot of the money goes into buying military-grade equipment. I really don't know why the police needs a tank (see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militarization_of_police https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militarization_of_police)
- hef19898 6y ago
  Sure, with brute force you can take a suspect, usually the decision whther or not a person is a criminal is up to the courts. The reason why European police aren't doing that, is exactly that brutality. They simply try to not hurt or seriously injure a person. I know a couple of police officers, funny enough from martial arts training (kickboxing, BJJ and so on). These guys can take a person down all by themselves, sure. But at the risk of serious injuriy. This kind of brutality is exactly what peple are demonstrating against. Als, IMHO, this whole "everyone is carrying a gun" narrative is a little bit lazy. Sure, the US has a gun issue. But just throwing it out there, is just a means to justify police brutality and use of deadly force. If there is such a problem with guns, there are couple of ways to deal with it: - stricter laws (seems to be dificult) - specific and adequat police training to deal with it. That explicitly means to not shoot first
camillomiller 6y ago
I live in Berlin. Police gets indicted for drawing a gun, let alone use it. And that’s the way it should be. Not all incidents are the same, but so is the feeling of being above any law that Us police officers enjoy and enforce
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- cm2187 6y ago
  I presume you meant "investigated" not "indicted".
  - camillomiller 6y ago
    Yep, I meant an investigation is started, so yes. Sorry
meheleventyone 6y ago
With use of force it doesn't matter if the techniques were ones we're used to it matters whether they are warranted by the situation. One isn't usually obliged to push crowds down the street. Using correct technique in the wrong situation is just as bad as using excessive force when using force is warranted.
- SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
  But it's impossible to tell, from just a video of a crowd being pushed down the street, whether or not there's a good reason they need to be moved.
  - meheleventyone 6y ago
    Then one shouldn't leap to conclusions in either direction until more context can be found. Like for example the ample less ambiguous evidence.
    - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
      Agreed, but I think this makes a very strong case against long lists of videos that look bad as a form of argument.
  - greedo 6y ago
    And most of these videos aren't from riots, but protests or curfew violations.

by jagrsw 6y ago

partyboat1586 6y ago

I also live in the EU and sometimes I get annoyed by how soft our police are. I've seen multiple officers unable to take down one violent criminal. Why is there not hand to hand training and strength training? With proper training surely they could do it cleanly without injuring the perp. I've seen (videos of) cops just walking away from armed criminals, letting them rob a store then tracking them down 6 months later after they do the same thing twice more. When I look at the US I see the opposite problem. Police shooting a man in the back multiple times. Police using excessive force when arresting people for non violent crime. Police just generally power tripping. From that perspective I can see why you would want to defund the police but I really would hesitate to do that. The EU is fine with a softer police force because we mostly have no guns and when there are real terrorists we can still bring in armed police. That is not the case in the US plus you are talking about fully defunding the police. Seems like a dangerous experiment to me. Why not reform instead?

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
BigJ1211 6y ago
I think for the same reason you see high-speed chasedowns in the US, and you don't really see that in Europe. The risks involved in catching that perp are significantly higher than simply arresting them later. (Both risk economically, as well as risk to human lives). I think they should focus on demilitarising the police in the US, with that you also reduce the funding of the police. As a lot of the money goes into buying military-grade equipment. I really don't know why the police needs a tank (see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militarization_of_police https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militarization_of_police)
hef19898 6y ago
Sure, with brute force you can take a suspect, usually the decision whther or not a person is a criminal is up to the courts. The reason why European police aren't doing that, is exactly that brutality. They simply try to not hurt or seriously injure a person. I know a couple of police officers, funny enough from martial arts training (kickboxing, BJJ and so on). These guys can take a person down all by themselves, sure. But at the risk of serious injuriy. This kind of brutality is exactly what peple are demonstrating against. Als, IMHO, this whole "everyone is carrying a gun" narrative is a little bit lazy. Sure, the US has a gun issue. But just throwing it out there, is just a means to justify police brutality and use of deadly force. If there is such a problem with guns, there are couple of ways to deal with it: - stricter laws (seems to be dificult) - specific and adequat police training to deal with it. That explicitly means to not shoot first

camillomiller 6y ago

I live in Berlin. Police gets indicted for drawing a gun, let alone use it. And that’s the way it should be. Not all incidents are the same, but so is the feeling of being above any law that Us police officers enjoy and enforce

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
cm2187 6y ago
I presume you meant "investigated" not "indicted".
- camillomiller 6y ago
  Yep, I meant an investigation is started, so yes. Sorry

meheleventyone 6y ago

With use of force it doesn't matter if the techniques were ones we're used to it matters whether they are warranted by the situation. One isn't usually obliged to push crowds down the street. Using correct technique in the wrong situation is just as bad as using excessive force when using force is warranted.

SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
But it's impossible to tell, from just a video of a crowd being pushed down the street, whether or not there's a good reason they need to be moved.
- meheleventyone 6y ago
  Then one shouldn't leap to conclusions in either direction until more context can be found. Like for example the ample less ambiguous evidence.
  - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
    Agreed, but I think this makes a very strong case against long lists of videos that look bad as a form of argument.
- greedo 6y ago
  And most of these videos aren't from riots, but protests or curfew violations.